Abusive relationships

CDfm wrote: »

You can lead a horse to water ,after that its up to the horse

Maybe ask the horse why? Why so many horses don't drink when there is water aplenty?

Explain the stigma of getting a court order from a court case that is heard in camera (private and not open to the public)

Just because you cant seem to see it does not mean such a stigma does not exist. Why are so many men(and women) not coming forward? Even when presented with the options. Saying it isn't so, does not make it so. Try and look at the person in question and remove your(or my) perception and possible projection onto the situation.

CDfm wrote: »

I dunno -they should. I cant see the stigma myself -if anything its the person who has the order granted against them has ownership of any stigma -not the other way round.

Well of course. OK Look at rape. One of the many feelings it engenders in the victim is shame. Makes no obvious sense right? The perp is the one who should feel shame. Would you say to someone in that position "why are you ashamed?". Hardly, you would be aiming for that endpoint but would not barrel in half cocked with that as an opener. Ditto with a child being bullied. While the obvious answer is stand up for yourself it's not helpful if they dont have the capacity or the tools to do so.

I think you're confusing your attitudes and responses to how you would deal with this personally. The thing is you by those same responses dont sound like someone who would find themsleves in that position in the first place. So its all too easy to say there exists no stigma or shame for a man to admit he's being abused and pursue recourses that may be available.

CDfm wrote: »

I dont see why it is anything to be embarressed about.

And why you're missing this by a country mile. With respect, you're being way too linear and subjective. All too common and you wont want for company in this on many subjects.

And thats exacly what I would do.

The "I" is the bit that resonates with you. Your opinion is doggedly predicated on this point. One of the biggest lessons I've learned in my life and indeed the most useful, is that the "I" doesnt always equate with the "other" and what they may feel. It always surprises me and little enough surprises me, but this notion does. Just because you think you can see what's what, does not mean you are right and certainly does not mean you are right when applied to others. IMHO its one of the barriers to understanding and resolution of this. As I say you've the common touch in this and thats not a good thing.

a fairly idiotic stigma

Well Duh. Most stigmas are idiotic, except to those within the framework of that stigma who believe it.

CDfm wrote: »

Sorry -but I dont intend to oversimplify it.

Though this is precisely what you're doing.

This is what I am saying -its very simple the abuser whether they are male or female is in the wrong.

Of course, but also somewhat of a simplification if you want to look at this completely objectively.

There are laws to protect the victim, man or woman or sexual orientation is irrelevant.

Only if one views the world in absolutes and black and white. Gender can be relevant. While abuse has similar patterns, the responses of the abused and why they may feel trapped can be different and can run along gender lines. Trying to reach a Big Strapping Bloke tm being abused by his partner may require a completely different approach. The social stereotypes/expectations are vastly different. And no you can't dismiss that by saying it doesn't matter. It shouldn't, but it does.

By tackling the issue you take your power back. You may need outside help but if you are ill you get outside help from a doctor. If my back is sore I go to a chiropractor. If I am abused I go to a self-help group and the courts.

Again you're being too linear, subjective and a+b=c. You could say the same of people suffering from mental illness. It's said a lot actually. I've said it and I was thick to say it. "Oh if you had a broken leg you'd go to casualty, sure it's the same for a broken mind/heart". Eh no. It's not. Hence 99.999% of people with a broken leg would call a doctor, but a helluva lot more people out there with depression simply don't and too many end up as another suicide statistic.

I am not saying its easy -but tolerance isnot an option here. Apply for your court order and let the authorities deal with them.Thats their job. Your job is to recover from the abuse and live a happy life.

Yep again great in theory, but a+b=c.

As a stigma -this one is very idiotic, mad, nuts and a whole lot of other words. So ignore the stigma and get on with it. The person with the real problem is the abuser.

Ignore the stigma. That simple eh? really?

CDfm wrote: »

But that doesnt mean the stigma is valid or right.

Of course it doesn't.

CDfm wrote: »

So even if there is a stigma there are places you can go for help. We all should help those we know who are victims of Domestic Abuse.

OK different tack. Why don't many people who know there are options, not take them? Simple question. Like you're example of taking a horse to water earlier. You'll take them, you know where the water is, but you're not asking the important question; why don't they drink?

Personnally, if anyone told me they were in an abusive relationship I would not think less of them and would help them anyway I could.

Ditto, but while that's all fine and dandy, it's how they think of themselves and how they think the wider world will view them is the important thing. They may have had this kind of thing happen throughout their lives. They may have been primed for abuse. This on top of being emotionally controlled by the abuser. Ranged against that an offer of help and kindness while welcome and decent can have a hard fight on its hands.

I've seen this up close with two women and one man in my life. The things all three had in common was that they had been primed for abuse by childhood to some degree or other. They felt in a crazy (to me) way deserving of this and their abuser had plugged right into it.

Now this may raise hackles in many quarters but I would also say the "blame" was not always all one way either. Again nothing is absolute when it comes to people.

In one case, I knew both of them quite well. She had been in a stream of abusive relationships. All but one of her any way long termers had hit her. the one that didnt left her because of her behaviour. He had been in relationships, but with no history of being abusive. His exes agreed, even one who couldnt stand him(she was shocked as one reason she left him was that she thought him too passive). In this case the abused was constantly pushing the buttons of the abuser. They ramped each other up. She expected abuse in a way. It's what she was used to. She actively sought out the type that would abuse her and left many men who didnt. We as her mates saw this time and time again. Yes he responded beyond badly and thumped her. He took that step too far. He was entirely responsible for his actions in that case. No excuse. But in this case she has built up a framework in her head that enabled the abuse.

The guy I knew who was being emotionally and sometimes phsyically abused by his partner also wound her up. Yes again, she was in the wrong for responding how she did, but this stuff has more complexity than is often admitted. So even something as simple and obvious as "the abuser is always 100% in the wrong and the abused takes 0% responsibility" has grey areas.

This stuff is far more complex than "if you're abused, walk, seek help and recourse through the proper authorities". Far more and until people on all sides examine this and are more open then it will continue.