Irish Football fans least homophobic

Pawwed Rig · 29-05-2014 10:05am #1

We all have a belief that Irish football fans are the best in the world. Well this has just been proven

A survey carried out by Europe's leading gay equality charity, Stonewall, which polled over 30,000 fans from 29 countries, found that Irish football supporters would be the most accepting of a player in their national team coming out as homosexual, with 83% saying they were comfortable with the idea.
Sweden and Denmark followed next with 79% ahead of the United Kingdom with 73%, while this summer's World Cup host nation Brazil came sixth (67%).
Supporters from Kuwait and the United Arab Emirates (both 7%) had the lowest acceptance rates of such a scenario.

Take a bow guys. Nice to see a positive article on men*

*who make up 70%+ of supporters

toxicity234 · 29-05-2014 10:08am

If he a world class Midfielder we be glad to have him.

Aint Eazy Being Cheezy · 29-05-2014 10:11am

I'd say it'd depend on who it is. James McCarthy? Don't worry about it son, just get out there and play.

Paul Green.. eh Pauly I think you might be in the 2nd team this week...

jayobray · 29-05-2014 10:19am

Wouldn't care if he had 3 heads and a chihuahua called Dave, if he could play football we'd be delighted to have him.

Pawwed Rig · 29-05-2014 10:43am

Duracell Bunny wrote: »

I'd say it'd depend on who it is. James McCarthy? Don't worry about it son, just get out there and play.

Paul Green.. eh Pauly I think you might be in the 2nd team this week...

To bring the analogy back to the 80's and 90's, it is easy to welcome a world class Paul McGrath type player but I don't think the lesser black players like (say) Phil Babb ever got any hassle (although I stand to be corrected here).

folan · 29-05-2014 10:46am

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

To bring the analogy back to the 80's and 90's, it is easy to welcome a world class Paul McGrath type player but I don't think the lesser black players like (say) Phil Babb ever got any hassle (although I stand to be corrected here).

Phil Babb is a national treasure

LostinBlanch · 29-05-2014 11:56am

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

I don't think the lesser black players like (say) Phil Babb ever got any hassle (although I stand to be corrected here).

Only after coming out from Coppers and deciding to play Starsky And Hutch on a patrol car! :cool:

tigger123 · 29-05-2014 12:06pm

A professional player coming out is long overdue. It's great to see football fans reacting in this way, even if it is only a survey. The game's gradually changing, which is a good thing.

Manach · 29-05-2014 12:24pm

Perhaps they might like to do another poll on attitudes on those who are free to come out in their disproval of homosexually within fear of the liberal mob. Then again, Stonewall is quite adapt at launching campaigns against those that speak out against their agenda with their Bigot of the year awards.

Ash.J.Williams · 29-05-2014 12:27pm

Manach wrote: »

Perhaps they might like to do another poll on attitudes on those who are free to come out in their disproval of homosexually within fear of the liberal mob. Then again, Stonewall is quite adapt at launching campaigns against those that speak out against their agenda with their Bigot of the year awards.

what agenda is this now?

Manach · 29-05-2014 12:31pm

An agenda: change in Western society's attitude to homosexual behaviour so as to accept in as a norm instead of what was traditionally the view as not a norm

Pawwed Rig · 29-05-2014 12:34pm

Manach wrote: »

An agenda: change in Western society's attitude to homosexual behaviour so as to accept in as a norm instead of what was traditionally the view as not a norm

Is that a bad thing? The equality of all has long been a value of Western society but it is really only recently that it has started to become a reality for more marginalised people.

Manach · 29-05-2014 12:50pm

From what I know of history, equality has been a phrase use to drive societal change since the 1640s (Levelers etc). What this usually entails is an upturning from of the organic traditional values to one which is based on theoretical considerations of what should be in an ideal society (French Revolution etc) and the associated disorders.
In this specific case, society is moving away from determinering certain behaviours are wrong/right into not making judgment calls at all - that all are equally valid. So instead of a having an objective normalative set of conforming values, a subjective scale of currently acceptable behaviours are in place : as however that are lacking a clear framework beyond a touchstone of say "equality" then to re-enforce this unstable dynamic, lobbyists like Stonewall are not adverse to re-enforcing the group "them/us" paradigm - hence the Bigot of the year awards etc or listing where unenlightened types are to be found. Hence the survey of fans.

eviltwin · 29-05-2014 12:54pm

Manach wrote: »

An agenda: change in Western society's attitude to homosexual behaviour so as to accept in as a norm instead of what was traditionally the view as not a norm

I think you'll find that's not called an agenda, its called progress.

skallywag · 29-05-2014 1:30pm

Stephen Ireland is not coming back lads, just let go of it.

29-05-2014 1:54pm

Glad to see 83% of our fans have the intelligence not to equate sexuality to ability to play sport.

folan · 29-05-2014 3:01pm

Manach wrote: »

From what I know of history, equality has been a phrase use to drive societal change since the 1640s (Levelers etc).

Gah, things have gotten so much worse than then, you know. Life was perfect in 1640.

Manach wrote:

What this usually entails is an upturning from of the organic traditional values to one which is based on theoretical considerations of what should be in an ideal society (French Revolution etc) and the associated disorders.

how the french thought those organic traditional values needed upturning is quite beyond me.

Manach wrote:

In this specific case, society is moving away from determinering certain behaviours are wrong/right into not making judgment calls at all - that all are equally valid.

its so wrong. How else can we judge people for mixing races, believing in differing gods, questioning the norms

Manach wrote:

So instead of a having an objective normalative set of conforming values, a subjective scale of currently acceptable behaviours are in place : as however that are lacking a clear framework beyond a touchstone of say "equality" then to re-enforce this unstable dynamic, lobbyists like Stonewall are not adverse to re-enforcing the group "them/us" paradigm - hence the Bigot of the year awards etc or listing where unenlightened types are to be found. Hence the survey of fans.

Yeah, theres no reason to change from our currently accepted right and wrong, we will only evolve as a species and a society if we keep that up. and thats the last thing we want.

</sarcasm>

It is wrong to judge someone based on their race, creed, gender or sexuality. it is wrong to judge people based solely on their differences.
I feel bad for people who use THESE things as a measure of right and wrong.
How you act in accordance with your fellow man. Thats where its at.

ancapailldorcha · 29-05-2014 3:25pm

Here's a link for anyone who wants one:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/27606171

Sleepy · 29-05-2014 4:23pm

jayobray wrote: »

Wouldn't care if he had 3 heads and a chihuahua called Dave, if he could play football we'd be delighted to have him.

Three heads could be bloody useful in a centre forward!

Honestly though, it's a little disappointing that there's still almost a fifth of football fans that are so homophobic.

_Redzer_ · 29-05-2014 7:05pm

Manach wrote: »

Perhaps they might like to do another poll on attitudes on those who are free to come out in their disproval of homosexually within fear of the liberal mob. Then again, Stonewall is quite adapt at launching campaigns against those that speak out against their agenda with their Bigot of the year awards.

Go home, you're drunk

ongarboy · 30-05-2014 10:28am

Manach wrote: »

Perhaps they might like to do another poll on attitudes on those who are free to come out in their disproval of homosexually within fear of the liberal mob. Then again, Stonewall is quite adapt at launching campaigns against those that speak out against their agenda with their Bigot of the year awards.

Why do some people fear or have issue with what other consenting adults do? Well adjusted individuals who are comfortable with their own sexuality and gender have no issue with others sexuality and gender so why do you have these issues? You come across as a strong candidate of someone with internalised homophobia.

Pawwed Rig · 30-05-2014 10:35am

Sleepy wrote: »

Honestly though, it's a little disappointing that there's still almost a fifth of football fans that are so homophobic.

Ah I don't think so. 83% is very high. Without knowing the exact question asked it is hard to know the reasoning of the balance of people.
We are far ahead of most countries with respect to football fans (at international matches). I am a season ticket holder and have also been to away games and have never heard a word uttered about gay/black/english in all of them games.
Stark contrast to matches where you see bananas being thrown at players or aggressive abuse of others.

ancapailldorcha · 30-05-2014 10:37am

As far as I know, the Irish fans have a great reputation abroad so this doesn't surprise me. The last world cup I took an interest in was 2002 and there were pics of them mingling with the other fans. It was the same when Celtic played FC Porto in the 2003 UEFA Cup final.

endacl · 30-05-2014 10:38am

Manach wrote: »

An agenda: change in Western society's attitude to homosexual behaviour so as to accept in as a norm instead of what was traditionally the view as not a norm

We had all sorts of ridiculous 'traditional norms' here. Happily most are disappearing.

Some, such as fish on a Friday, we're essentially harmless. Others are profoundly damaging, and abhorrent to right thinking people.

endacl · 30-05-2014 10:39am

ongarboy wrote: »

Why do some people fear or have issue with what other consenting adults do? Well adjusted individuals who are comfortable with their own sexuality and gender have no issue with others sexuality and gender so why do you have these issues? You come across as a strong candidate of someone with internalised homophobia.

It doesn't tread as 'internalised'. Just expressed in a passive aggressive kinda way...

skallywag · 30-05-2014 10:39am

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

...I am a season ticket holder and have also been to away games and have never heard a word uttered about gay/black/english in all of them games...

On the other hand booing anyone who has played with Rangers is of course perfectly acceptable :pac:

Pawwed Rig · 30-05-2014 11:24am

skallywag wrote: »

On the other hand booing anyone who has played with Rangers is of course perfectly acceptable :pac:

Fair point.

skallywag · 30-05-2014 11:39am

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Fair point.

You're definitely right though in general, I've been to many aways and the you practically never see trouble, which is amazing considering the amount of drink which is consumed. It's great to have that reputation, you can can really see the difference in the way the locals react to you, how the police conduct themselves, etc.

Howshocowpownw · 30-05-2014 12:21pm

Sleepy wrote: »

Three heads could be bloody useful in a centre forward!

Honestly though, it's a little disappointing that there's still almost a fifth of football fans that are so homophobic.

That's a survey from a tiny sample. The majority are homophobic.

Pawwed Rig · 30-05-2014 12:27pm

Howshocowpownw wrote: »

That's a survey from a tiny sample. The majority are homophobic.

I assume you have a source that proves the majority are homophobic?

Howshocowpownw · 30-05-2014 12:32pm

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

I assume you have a source that proves the majority are homophobic?

Life experience. How do I link ?

skallywag · 30-05-2014 12:47pm

Howshocowpownw wrote: »

That's a survey from a tiny sample. The majority are homophobic.

I'm guessing that you don't really know many football fans.

Howshocowpownw · 30-05-2014 12:52pm

skallywag wrote: »

I'm guessing that you don't really know many football fans.

Not personally. I don't care for the game myself.

Pawwed Rig · 30-05-2014 12:57pm

Howshocowpownw wrote: »

Not personally. I don't care for the game myself.

Howshocowpownw wrote: »

Life experience. How do I link ?

Mod note - You are adding nothing to this thread. Please read TGC charter and get a feel for what is considered an acceptable standard of debate in the forum before posting here again.

seamus · 30-05-2014 1:27pm

I think we underestimate the Irish people's level of tolerance, and I think this tolerance comes from there being a lack of any history of intolerance; with the exception of our conflict with the English, we were 99.9% white Catholics, so there was very little fragmentation in Irish society, unlike in western societies with large numbers of black people, for example. So there's regional slagging and disputes, but basically everyone was united under the banner of being Irish, there was no hint of "Xs and Ys don't mix"

I was reading a discussion yesterday about Nichelle Nichols and the example she set in the US and how many people were "inspired" by her and how shocking some of the Star Trek episodes were for breaking down racial barriers. And that all seems a little foreign to me here. I was born in the early 80s and for as long as I can remember there have been black people on TV. And there was never anything strange about black people. They were just people with black skin. Except that there were no black people in Ireland (for all intents and purposes). So when immigration became a big thing in the late 90's and we started seeing the growth of the black demographic in Ireland, there was no history there of racial tension, no simmering ancestral hatred. Through consuming US & UK arts and culture we had already accepted black people as equal, before black people existed in Ireland in any tangible numbers.
Sure, there is some racism, of course there is, but in comparison it's tiny. And we tend to be more picky about our racism, prejudicing people based on their country of origin rather than their skin colour.

Such I think the same is basically true of homosexuality. Until the late 80's/early 90s there weren't really any gays in Ireland (as far as Ireland was concerned). OK so "gay" is still a derogatory term, but there were no hate campaigns, children weren't taught to watch out for dangerous gays lurking around the corner. As far as Ireland was concerned, gay rights was a battle being fought in other countries. And once more, through consuming foreign culture which would routinely feature gay characters (though admittedly often as stereotypical harmless fops), gays became basically normalised, even when it was still illegal here. As a result, there was no real "fear" of homosexuals in Ireland except in the minority hardline religious quarters. Fear of the unknown perhaps, but as most people hit their 20s, met at least one gay person and realised they weren't going to be turned or molested, they realised there was no reason for intolerance.

Wompa1 · 04-06-2014 5:41pm

seamus wrote: »

I think we underestimate the Irish people's level of tolerance, and I think this tolerance comes from there being a lack of any history of intolerance; with the exception of our conflict with the English, we were 99.9% white Catholics, so there was very little fragmentation in Irish society, unlike in western societies with large numbers of black people, for example. So there's regional slagging and disputes, but basically everyone was united under the banner of being Irish, there was no hint of "Xs and Ys don't mix"

I was reading a discussion yesterday about Nichelle Nichols and the example she set in the US and how many people were "inspired" by her and how shocking some of the Star Trek episodes were for breaking down racial barriers. And that all seems a little foreign to me here. I was born in the early 80s and for as long as I can remember there have been black people on TV. And there was never anything strange about black people. They were just people with black skin. Except that there were no black people in Ireland (for all intents and purposes). So when immigration became a big thing in the late 90's and we started seeing the growth of the black demographic in Ireland, there was no history there of racial tension, no simmering ancestral hatred. Through consuming US & UK arts and culture we had already accepted black people as equal, before black people existed in Ireland in any tangible numbers.
Sure, there is some racism, of course there is, but in comparison it's tiny. And we tend to be more picky about our racism, prejudicing people based on their country of origin rather than their skin colour.

Such I think the same is basically true of homosexuality. Until the late 80's/early 90s there weren't really any gays in Ireland (as far as Ireland was concerned). OK so "gay" is still a derogatory term, but there were no hate campaigns, children weren't taught to watch out for dangerous gays lurking around the corner. As far as Ireland was concerned, gay rights was a battle being fought in other countries. And once more, through consuming foreign culture which would routinely feature gay characters (though admittedly often as stereotypical harmless fops), gays became basically normalised, even when it was still illegal here. As a result, there was no real "fear" of homosexuals in Ireland except in the minority hardline religious quarters. Fear of the unknown perhaps, but as most people hit their 20s, met at least one gay person and realised they weren't going to be turned or molested, they realised there was no reason for intolerance.

It's in stark contrast to the Irish who moved to America. I've read that the Irish people living and trying to work in America decades ago were very racist towards Black people and Asians, because even though, at the time the Irish were seen as on the same level and were discriminated themselves, they were competing against them for low level jobs and each group banded together with their own.

I read something else, saying that a lot of Irish Americans that are 2nd or 3rd generation removed go back to Ireland to discover their roots and some see the difference in ideology. Basically the Irish Americans were raised with the old Irish mindset, religion of utmost importance and the cycle didn't really break like it did in Ireland. So while those of us at home progressed, the Irish Americans still living in the states did not. They take pride in their Irish side and try to live up to it, meanwhile they don't have a clue what modern day Irish are like until they get over there. Apparently, speaking with many living in Boston. Boston has a huge problem with racism...

More to that. I use to go to Galway United matches, they signed three Barbados Internationals. Whilst most chatter wasn't completely malicious, there were many 'dark fella's', 'darkies' etc. thrown out. Also take a look at the Biography of Phil Lynott, he loved Irish history and mythology but at one point after becoming famous he started to feel discriminated against at home.

I don't think modern day Irish are all that racist (except against Travellers) but I can't say the same for previous generations.

porsche959 · 04-06-2014 5:45pm

skallywag wrote: »

Stephen Ireland is not coming back lads, just let go of it.

He's not a real gay! He's one of those meterosexuals they have now.

Irish Football fans least homophobic

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