Class Swap Documentary (Rte 1 Monday)

evolving_doors · 12-01-2014 11:51pm #1

Anyone tuning in?
Last weeks one was generally showing people waving goodbye and using various forms of transport. Tomorrow the teachers and students will be experiencing classes in Spain, Poland and the much loved Finland ( would have been more interesting to see an in depth program on different schools in the UK I reckon).
I suppose we can't expect anything substantive as it'll be short and heavily edited. Still though it should be interesting enough as the teachers who are travelling seem clued in enough to give some perspective.

rainbowtrout · 15-01-2014 12:32am

I caught a bit of it last night, I suppose not enough to pass judgement on any of the other systems, but the bit I did see was the Finnish school. Finland is the poster boy for education, but I was surprised to see that basically each school can follow their own curriculum in a subject and that it all seemed very relaxed in the classroom that students were allowed to have their phones out etc. The Irish students commented on it. It seemed to be differentiated learning for everyone.

It was interesting to see a small glimpse of it to say the least.

solerina · 15-01-2014 1:07pm

I saw it this week and to be honest found it hard to figure out why Finland seems to be the 'poster child' for education...I know its only a snap shot but the students didn't even seem to be in school....it was incredibly relaxed....you would wonder how they get anything done, no notes, tiny books etc...very hard to comprehend when you are used to a totally different educational experience

rainbowtrout · 15-01-2014 1:28pm

I thought that too. I know the whole idea of standardised /national tests is ingrained in us so it is hard to look at a different system and see it as successful without comparing it to our own particularly when we have no alternative and anyone in the teaching system in Ireland came through that system themselves.

jonseyblub · 15-01-2014 2:28pm

If you have time take a look at this. it's very interesting and certainly a place where I'd love to teach

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkNK3gY-rxg

ytareh · 15-01-2014 6:01pm

Personally Spanish school was my favourite .Surprised to see just how religious Polish one was and Finns seemed 'for the birds' .I thought the boast that every 6 or 7 year old had their own individual hair colour/style was of dubious merit...Although obviously their facilities were amazing.Some may say money isnt the main difference but if THEY spend ten million on a schools they prob get a ten million school .We get a four million school with remainder divided up between the various 'brown envelope' recipients / contractors .
In my opinion the best education system in the world WAS ours c1975-95 .But of course its ingrained in some of us to assume theyre doing everything better 'out foreign'.
Such a shame our country is being ran into the ground to pay for the elite .

gammy_knees · 15-01-2014 6:32pm

Tuned in to this the other night. You could smell the money in Finland. In the geography class being taught in Finland, it seemed to me as if there were only 9/10 in the class and that included the Irish guests. Did anyone else notice this? As a geography teacher for 20+yrs I've never had less than 25 either at junior or senior level(closer to 30). If that was ever my class size I could be relaxed and cool with it as well!!
The comment made about the relevant qualifications necessary to become a teacher in Finland were interesting. No lack of respect there.

evolving_doors · 15-01-2014 9:05pm

gammy_knees wrote: »

Tuned in to this the other night. You could smell the money in Finland. In the geography class being taught in Finland, it seemed to me as if there were only 9/10 in the class and that included the Irish guests. Did anyone else notice this? As a geography teacher for 20+yrs I've never had less than 25 either at junior or senior level(closer to 30). If that was ever my class size I could be relaxed and cool with it as well!!
The comment made about the relevant qualifications necessary to become a teacher in Finland were interesting. No lack of respect there.

wonder how the Finnish teacher would manage with 30 students and mobile phones on the go..and don't forget finland ain't got the same socio economic demographic that some schools in Ireland do.

Heydeldel · 16-01-2014 11:39pm

Wonder why they didn't do a stint in a UK school?

rainbowtrout · 17-01-2014 12:22am

Heydeldel wrote: »

Wonder why they didn't do a stint in a UK school?

Cos we'd be seeing what Irish schools will be like in 10-20 years???:D

Mr Pseudonym · 17-01-2014 5:17am

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Cos we'd be seeing what Irish schools will be like in 10-20 years???:D

Really? I'd be delighted if Irish schools were like Eton and Westminster.

solerina · 17-01-2014 1:15pm

Mr Pseudonym wrote: »

Really? I'd be delighted if Irish schools were like Eton and Westminster.

Really ?? Do you think most English schools are like Eton and Westminster...?? Seriously

gammy_knees · 17-01-2014 5:45pm

Mr Pseudonym wrote: »

Really? I'd be delighted if Irish schools were like Eton and Westminster.

By jove old chap, is it time for tea after this wicket has fallen?

Meangadh · 17-01-2014 6:07pm

A major factor in the Scandinavian system's success is the fact that there is money- both in the education system itself and in the homes that the students come from. This means better facilities, smaller classes (the biggest plus) and better overall interest in education coming from home. It's bound to be more successful.

varberg · 18-01-2014 1:42am

A very interesting programme.

In reality we are still in the Hard Times "Gradgrind" school mentality in Ireland when it comes to education.

Finnish schools are light years ahead of us here and the gap looks like widening rather than us catching up..

A lot of students hate the thoughts of going to school here each morning with huge classes, stressed teachers, notmuch individual attention and the rigid nature of our school system demanding mini uniformed, standing upright soldiers standing to attention every day. No wonder students go crazy drinking when they go to college here in ireland and havent got any critical skills learned from their time in school here. They are bottle fed vessels to be filled in the Gradgrind mentality our education system promotes. They havent developed much love of learning in the Irish educational regime. In university the high achievers are often coming from a more open educational environment, where students develop a happier, more logical way of thinking and deeper learing that simply isnt present in the Irish system.Of course its a vicious circle here where society, students influences, our hedonistic culture, the importance of alcohol in Irish society and the poor eating habits of generations all play a role.

Our education system mirrors our chaotic society in Ireland and often, in politicians eyes, it depends on if you look at the glass being half full or half empty. Finlands ed. system, and excellent healthcare system, all merge into a better society to live.

But you have to try to start to fix the Irish system somewhere. So in school is the best place. In Sweden the leaving cert equivalent was done away with half a century ago and we are plodding on with one weeks exams deciding a students future. Dont do a meaningful test for years and then write and write til your hand is sore seems to be the story of the Irish leaving cert. Project work on Geography or Home Ec or or Woodwork or such is often seen as "a breather" by students rather than a genuine learning experience... That really sums up what we teach kids in our schools.

In some cases, the teacher ends up doing a lot of work on projects for students rather than students doing the work themselves! How many leave our Ed system fluent in Irish or French after spending years and years learning both? Its not teachers or students fault, just the system we have created over time for ourselves. I mean if we wanted to, really wanted to, we could have a system as good as what the Finns have. We have a country with the population of the greater Manchester area which is few enough compared to the rest of Europe and we cant operate hospitals or schools to function well! We really should just go and ask some Finns to come over and fix our country.

The problem is now our education system loosely follows and will probably continue to follow the uk system that is a mess for students and teachers. At least thats what ive heard from friends that worked over there for a while. We should be looking to Finland to ask them what we can do better because our educational system is long outdated and we need to start looking in the the right places to fix it.

gammy_knees · 18-01-2014 12:04pm

"Our education system mirrors our chaotic society in Ireland".
You didn't have to say anymore!

Mr Pseudonym · 19-01-2014 7:28am

I've just finished watching the second episode. I'll give my response to the series so far:

I laughed at the OP's describing the first episode as "showing people waving goodbye and using various forms of transport". It's certainly true that little else happened in it.

The documentary is designed in such a way that the Irish students are the viewer's conduits, and all experiences are seen through their eyes, i.e. the class happens, and then we hear their responses. It's a pity therefore, that most of these were so vacuous as to be useless. In the Spanish school, two of their students learnt a traditional Irish music piece, and played it on flute and tin-whistle. The response from one of our "characters" was, "They were fantastic, like, we were all like, 'Woh', you know, it was so good, like. It was crazy." Not exactly insightful! The students - seemingly without realising it - switched from the specific to the general, making grand claims about how something in, for instance, the Finnish school would not be seen in Ireland as a whole. There was no evidence, despite claims from one or two, that any of the students had done prior research: host families were invariably met with a "How are you?", and some seemed in awe of the fact that most European countries do not have school uniforms.

The teachers' responses were not much more illuminating. The Irish teacher in the Spanish school remarked, "There was a direct link ... between the quiz and what the students were going to be looking at ... in the next unit - she's obviously quite an experienced teacher." I'm surprised that she thinks that warrants comment, but, aside from that, it tells us nothing about the education system in general. That same teacher earlier said that one of the challenges facing both countries' schools was "cut-backs" - it is important for the credibility of the documentary that it later illustrates that point.

Technically, the documentary was pretty standard: lots of slow-motion walking; the format was generally an event (a class/welcome assembly) followed by the responses to that event of students and teachers, with the audio of the latter often voicing-over the former; some documentaries shy away from having music, as it can influence the viewer - not this one: harrowing violin accompanied the Polish class standing and incanting a prayer; mellow pop was the soundtrack for footage of the students cheering a football match and playing in the snow.

I get the impression that this is a documentary trying to affect significance. If it were marketed as being an unchallenging portrayal of the experiences of Irish students on a set of exchanges, it succeeds. But it's not. It's marketed as being a worthy comparison of Ireland's education system with the selected European ones. I wasn't impressed, and am not sure that I'll keep watching. The TV ratings for the first episode should be available mid-way through next week on Aertel.

metrosity · 08-10-2014 7:49pm

Ireland's education is unique in a way. It was made to look good from the excessive spending on it over the years - back in the stone ages when rote learning as was the norm everywhere. "Education, education, education" and this slogan from educators here, that were a product from the very same chain of systematic child abuse, violation of human rights, humiliation and oppression. Now that education has advanced far beyond the crud we still have here, the warts are showing. Deranged students from deranged parents, fiendishly dungeoned away in their rooms by their abusing parents.

I got off lightly. I had the normal humiliation and abuse present at any Catholic school in Ireland but no sexual abuse of any kind. I'm thankful for that much. I'm glad they made that program - to showcase this tin pot country for what it is.

All 3 countries made Ireland look shameful. 2 of them Poland and Spain probably spend less and seem to have more devoted teachers. All these teaching methodologies have been around for decades btw, for those of u who don't know. Finland employs them best of that bunch, but the research on these methodologies mostly came out of the UK and US and is only really applied publicly in Asia. Irish teachers are predominantly a cop out. They were indoctrinated and brainwashed, and in some cases even abused by the same abusive system as their students and they're too beaten to really change that.

seavill · 08-10-2014 8:42pm

metrosity wrote: »

Ireland's education is unique in a way. It was made to look good from the excessive spending on it over the years - back in the stone ages when rote learning as was the norm everywhere. "Education, education, education" and this slogan from educators here, that were a product from the very same chain of systematic child abuse, violation of human rights, humiliation and oppression. Now that education has advanced far beyond the crud we still have here, the warts are showing. Deranged students from deranged parents, fiendishly dungeoned away in their rooms by their abusing parents.

I got off lightly. I had the normal humiliation and abuse present at any Catholic school in Ireland but no sexual abuse of any kind. I'm thankful for that much. I'm glad they made that program - to showcase this tin pot country for what it is.

All 3 countries made Ireland look shameful. 2 of them Poland and Spain probably spend less and seem to have more devoted teachers. All these teaching methodologies have been around for decades btw, for those of u who don't know. Finland employs them best of that bunch, but the research on these methodologies mostly came out of the UK and US and is only really applied publicly in Asia. Irish teachers are predominantly a cop out. They were indoctrinated and brainwashed, and in some cases even abused by the same abusive system as their students and they're too beaten to really change that.

Genius

evolving_doors · 08-10-2014 10:54pm

metrosity wrote: »

Ireland's education is unique in a way. It was made to look good from the excessive spending on it over the years - back in the stone ages when rote learning as was the norm everywhere. "Education, education, education" and this slogan from educators here, that were a product from the very same chain of systematic child abuse, violation of human rights, humiliation and oppression. Now that education has advanced far beyond the crud we still have here, the warts are showing. Deranged students from deranged parents, fiendishly dungeoned away in their rooms by their abusing parents.

I got off lightly. I had the normal humiliation and abuse present at any Catholic school in Ireland but no sexual abuse of any kind. I'm thankful for that much. I'm glad they made that program - to showcase this tin pot country for what it is.

All 3 countries made Ireland look shameful. 2 of them Poland and Spain probably spend less and seem to have more devoted teachers. All these teaching methodologies have been around for decades btw, for those of u who don't know. Finland employs them best of that bunch, but the research on these methodologies mostly came out of the UK and US and is only really applied publicly in Asia. Irish teachers are predominantly a cop out. They were indoctrinated and brainwashed, and in some cases even abused by the same abusive system as their students and they're too beaten to really change that.

Apart from not having read the charter, one may be shocked to find out that this forum is actually populated by Irish teachers (btw, for those of u who don't know.)

Take those 'facts and stats' elsewhere.

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Class Swap Documentary (Rte 1 Monday)

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