How far is too far for Dublin commute

rgdrfgdf · 22-10-2005 11:32pm #1

One of many people who is looking outside of Dublin to buy a house as I'm priced out.
So how far is too far for commuting on a daily basis?
35 miles? 50 miles? 70 miles?
Is Arklow far enough? or can you realistically stretch it to Enniscorthy or Carlow?
What have your experiences been, I'm talking driving wise.

Our man in Havana · 23-10-2005 2:23am

Carlow is about 50 miles from Dublin. Could depending on traffic take anywhere from 1 hour to 2-3 hours to drive depending on Time of day. Carlow has an excellent train service to dublin taking just over an hour, early train leaves at 6.30 am.

Enniscorthy is a non runner really, too far, no early train. Gorey or Arklow are better bets. About 2 hour drive or early trains available.

laoisfan · 23-10-2005 11:41am

i commute from south laois (coming from donaghmore, laois) everyday to eastpoint business park, dublin 3 (on your way out to fairview).

i leave my house at 6am. drive into portlaoise (30mins away) arriving at the train station at 6:30am. hop on the train. the train leaves at 6:45am arriving into heuston station dublin at 7:55am. i then hop the luas and go as far a bus aras. from there i walk around the corner and grab on the many buses which head out to annessly bridge (forgive my spelling). i walk the last 10 mins into work in eastpoint business park. i am usually at my desk from 8:30am.

reverse journey in much the same. my employer gives me an hour for lunch. so i have arranged with them to only take 30 mins. this means i can leave early because i do not take all of my allocated time for lunch and plus i am in early in the morning.

commute is crap, i know. but i am not the only one doing it. plenty of people commute from portlaoise, carlow, tullamore etc etc everyday.

--laoisfan

laoisfan · 23-10-2005 11:44am

ps. just on the driving side of things. i have tried driving my commute. personally speaking it wrecked me!! i only did it for about 2 weeks but i was absolutely shattered every evening. at least with the train and all i can relax.

i usually just drive up one day a week (but that could be once or twice a month and if i know i have to work late).

driving up/down to work will depend on where you are living.....it can be a good or bad experience!!

--laoisfan

SexeeAussie · 23-10-2005 11:45am

God...I may as well travel from Canberra to Dublin each day the way you guys have to travel!

Lennoxschips · 23-10-2005 12:15pm

Yeah, I cycle to where I need to go. 15 mins max.

Vokes · 23-10-2005 12:26pm

rgdrfgdf wrote:

Is Arklow far enough? or can you realistically stretch it to Enniscorthy or Carlow?

Arklow would be a good option. The commuter train that starts at Gorey, departs Arklow at 7am and arrives in town at 0845ish.

murphaph · 23-10-2005 2:10pm

Mate of mine bought a house in Enniscorthy (he still lives at home in Dublin though while he works on the house). He says it no realistic to commute to Dublin unless the job was on the southside near the M50. City centre or further round the M50 is a non-runner as far as he's concerned. This may change when Gorey is bypassed and it's dual carriageway all the way to there. I'd hate to be even contemplating it.

Our man in Havana · 23-10-2005 2:20pm

laoisfan wrote:

i commute from south laois (coming from donaghmore, laois) everyday to eastpoint business park, dublin 3 (on your way out to fairview).

i leave my house at 6am. drive into portlaoise (30mins away) arriving at the train station at 6:30am. hop on the train. the train leaves at 6:45am arriving into heuston station dublin at 7:55am. i then hop the luas and go as far a bus aras. from there i walk around the corner and grab on the many buses which head out to annessly bridge (forgive my spelling). i walk the last 10 mins into work in eastpoint business park. i am usually at my desk from 8:30am.

reverse journey in much the same. my employer gives me an hour for lunch. so i have arranged with them to only take 30 mins. this means i can leave early because i do not take all of my allocated time for lunch and plus i am in early in the morning.

commute is crap, i know. but i am not the only one doing it. plenty of people commute from portlaoise, carlow, tullamore etc etc everyday.

--laoisfan

How much is the train ticket from Portlaoise a week? I am from Errill, only up the road from you. I commute to Waterford daily. :eek:

robinph · 23-10-2005 5:36pm

SexeeAussie wrote:

God...I may as well travel from Canberra to Dublin each day the way you guys have to travel!

Well I sometimes commute to Dublin from Bristol on Monday mornings which would take me less time than it takes laoisfan to get in by the sound of it. I can no longer do the Dublin to Bristol leg though without having to take the afternoon off though due to Ryanair changing the flight times, but it used to be possible, in theory.

MorningStar · 24-10-2005 9:20am

laoisfan wrote:

i commute from south laois (coming from donaghmore, laois) everyday to eastpoint business park, dublin 3 (on your way out to fairview). etc...

commute is crap, i know. but i am not the only one doing it. plenty of people commute from portlaoise, carlow, tullamore etc etc everyday.

--laoisfan

I have to ask why live so far from work? If you are going to say house price plese say what you could have actually bought in Dublin for what you paid for in Laois. If you say quality of life, explain how a 3.5 hour communte daily effects your life.

I have friends who do commutes like this and it was by choice. THey didn't like the look of what they could have in Dublin so they moved out. Now they complain about the commute. Ulimately the people who live closer to Dublin have a better quality of life within my circle of friends most were able to move up the property ladder while the other are still where they bought.

As a general piece of advise, buy as close to good transport links, hospitals, schools and places to work. If you don't your house will increase in value at a slower rate than other properties that do. The services are not being built in the new areas at any speed so you could be waiting 10 years for them to be built if ever. What might not be important now to you may suddenly be an issue.

laoisfan · 24-10-2005 9:36am

Bond-007 wrote:

How much is the train ticket from Portlaoise a week? I am from Errill, only up the road from you. I commute to Waterford daily. :eek:

i get a 'Giant Hop' train ticket. it costs 64 euro and 50 cents per week. the advantage of this ticket is that it can be used on irish rail (including the DART) plus all of bus eireann services (so one can get the cork or limerick bus to portlaoise) and you can also use it on Dublin bus (anywhere in the city).

i used to live in dublin but the missus and i did not like it up there. have tried elsewhere to look for jobs (athlone, kilkenny) but no go. the thing about jobs down the country is that you are either too qualified or else you have to know somebody.

i worked for Oracle (in eastpoint) for 4 and 1/2 years. i eworked from home with them. recently changed jobs (work with Sun Microsystems in the same park). they have indicated they will let me work from home in a few months time.

i know the commute is crap but heah.....would much rather live down home plus bring my kid up there too. no offence meant to people from dublin. hey, i used to live in portlaoise and i would much rather live where i am now than in portlaoise!!!

--laoisfan

laoisfan · 24-10-2005 10:04am

Bond-007 wrote:

How much is the train ticket from Portlaoise a week? I am from Errill, only up the road from you. I commute to Waterford daily. :eek:

is it waterford city you commute into too? i have driven down to waterford once from donaghmore, took me about 1hr 30 mins (first time driving it plus it was a sunday, traffic was heavy).

as mentioned in other replys, i work in IT, work for Sun Microsystems in Dublin.

--laoisfan

seamus · 24-10-2005 10:06am

Realistically I would consider any commute longer than 45 minutes each way as too much.

Our man in Havana · 24-10-2005 10:10am

laoisfan wrote:

is it waterford city you commute into too? i have driven down to waterford once from donaghmore, took me about 1hr 30 mins (first time driving it plus it was a sunday, traffic was heavy).

as mentioned in other replys, i work in IT, work for Sun Microsystems in Dublin.

--laoisfan

Yep, Its Waterford city that I commute to.

I work nights so the drive down can be done in 1hr 25 to 1hr 30. The drive home in the morning can take anywhere from 1hr 30 (a very good day) to typicialy 1hr 45. Tis a crap commute but it puts food on the table. The poor car did 40K last year. :eek:

SickCert · 24-10-2005 10:57am

I work with a lot of southern commuters with big diesel engines.
They come to donnybrook from as far as Enniscorthy (1 only) and the rest Gorey Arklow and almost every town from their on in. The advantages of starting work at 6am is no traffic, i couldnt then drive around Dublin all day long! Marbles would be lost.:D

MorningStar · 24-10-2005 11:56am

laoisfan wrote:

i know the commute is crap but heah.....would much rather live down home plus bring my kid up there too. no offence meant to people from dublin. hey, i used to live in portlaoise and i would much rather live where i am now than in portlaoise!!!
--laoisfan

I guess if you get to telecommute it will work out. THe weird thingis there seems to be a move away from telecommuting due to work quality. Apparetntly it is also a very unhealthy way to live. Stress, over eating, addictions and a lack of social skills are all problems the home worker suffers from over the regular.

I don't get how your child's life will be that much better if you are doing an extra 3-4 hour commutre a day. You must be spending less time with your child. I get you might like the area but costs and time make that area have a huge value. I work in East Point too and I have a 15 minute commute. I have an extra 3 hours a day for my family every day.

I hope you get to telecommute but on the OP I have to say buy as close to all possible needs. Your quality of life is greatly reduced by your commute. If you are relying on your own transport (car etc...) bear in mind fuel prices go up and roads increase congestion. Every free space is being built on so the further you live out of major places you will have to get by all these other people that bought closer. 158 apartments to be built in Beaumont and they will have a direct effect in the loacl area. That will therfore effect a lot of people commuting from north county

Victor · 24-10-2005 12:25pm

And there was I stressed this morning when it took me a whole 12 minutes to get to work (bus stop to bus stop).

civdef · 24-10-2005 12:43pm

I get the same train to Dublin as Laoisfan (live few miles closer to Portlaoise though). I find the return journey more aggravating, due to the setup at Heuston. It pans out as 2 hours or so each way for me, door to door.

It was a bit of a killer at the start, but becomes bearable with practice. The fact that most of the journey is by train makes it a lot more viable than driving (I think catching up on sleep on the N7 would be frowned upon).

MorningStar · 24-10-2005 1:06pm

civdef wrote:

It pans out as 2 hours or so each way for me, door to door.

If you were to do 2 hours a day extra in work and they paid you how much money would that be a year? Add your yearly travel expenses. How much is that?
Multiply that by 5.
Now if you add that onto the projected sale of your property in 5 years time generally 5-10% yearly on property outside the city.
Now compare that you something you could have bought near the city and multiple it by 15-25% yearly.
If they are equal all you lost was your time but if Dublin is worth more you were paying to have less equity in your house. If country is better than y=it may be worth it.

I am only making it 2 hours as I reckon an hour commute each way is the limit anybody should travel door to door. I have an extra 3.5 hours to you a day nearly a day every two days. If I want something like country side I can always drive to the country side which is quick to get to at the weekend especially in the morning.

skywalker_208 · 24-10-2005 2:32pm

rgdrfgdf wrote:

One of many people who is looking outside of Dublin to buy a house as I'm priced out.
So how far is too far for commuting on a daily basis?
35 miles? 50 miles? 70 miles?
Is Arklow far enough? or can you realistically stretch it to Enniscorthy or Carlow?
What have your experiences been, I'm talking driving wise.

Suppose it depends on how long its going to take you to do those 35/50/70 miles.. i drive from Navan and it could take 2 hours each way during normal rush hour traffic...

but then again Meath has a serious lack of public transport so if you were to do 30 miles from ... say Louth.. it would prob only take an hour or so on the train...

JackieChan · 24-10-2005 3:11pm

I travel 50 miles each day.
Leave my house at 7:35 to catch a train and arrive in work at 9am.
Leave at 5pm, catch train at 5:15 and in my house for 6:10-6:15 .
I feel I'm very lucky commuting wise as I'm only a short walk from station to my work place.
But still its a minimum 2 1/2 hours a day commuting(1/2 day a week!!!)

jank · 25-10-2005 11:33am

See this is the reason why I avoided dublin like the plague.

Get a job elsewhere.
In Cork my commute takes 15 min-30min Max, depending on the traffic at the Jack Lynch Tunnel.

I get up at 8:05, quick shower and a bite to eat and im off at 8:30 to be in work at 8:45-9:00.

A commute over 45 minutes is the max I would ever do. Thats an hour and a half a day. Cant beleive that people are stupid enough to do 3-4 hour commutes. What kind of quality of life are they having?

Living to work as opposed to working to live.

MorningStar · 25-10-2005 12:21pm

jank wrote:

See this is the reason why I avoided dublin like the plague.

Get a job elsewhere.

People do it so they have the house they want. If they bought what they needed they could live a better life. Dublin can be fine it's the people who wnat to work here and live in the country side that get me. Dublin people have to put up with the congestion they cause.
Many don't want to be in the city but want the jobs that are here so they think doing this is the best of both worlds but seem to be picking the worst of both instead. All the pain of working in the city ( commuting, congestion etc...) and all the pain of living in the countryside (no local shops and services etc...).
Loads of couples with one kid or no kids living in 3 bed houses in the middle of nowhere because they "couldn't afford" to live closer yet a smaller house or apartment would have been as affordable. People don't want to take responsibility for some of these decisions. I know friends who can no way afford to move closer to the city as the property increases out there way did not match that of the city and traditional surrounding suburbs.

skywalker_208 · 25-10-2005 12:56pm

MorningStar wrote:

People do it so they have the house they want.

Ill think you will find that alot if not most people do it because they have to not because they want to... very few jobs in the country for very many professions compared to Dublin.....

Cant beleive that people are stupid enough to do 3-4 hour commutes

that statement is just rediculous.....

A Dub in Glasgo · 25-10-2005 1:37pm

People commute because the pay in Ireland has not risen at the same extent as the cost of living.

skywalker_208 · 25-10-2005 2:15pm

Hey A Dub in Glasgo, thats another reason.. and another related issue is the fact the salaries are bigger in Dublin than the rest of the country...

jank · 25-10-2005 2:16pm

that statement is just rediculous.....

Really why so?

If people stopped moving to the greater dublin region and stopped buying these 3 bed semis in the middle of nowhere then maybe the government would take notice and actually try and relocate some jobs and services out to these commuter towns like portlaoise, navan and the like. Rather then craming everything in between the m50

Instead we are like an army of ants in our cars built for 4-5 people yet 95% of people have only one occupent.

Seriously ask anybody non-irish. A 3-4 hour commute is ridicuious and the people who do it are just feeding the fire, as things are only going to get worse.

There are jobs elsewhere. If they are not in ireland then maybe go abroad.
The standard of living is usually better there anyway.
I can tell you if there was emmigration again the governement would take much stronger action about this issue rather then doing......well nothing really

skywalker_208 · 25-10-2005 2:27pm

jank wrote:

Really why so?

Well basically going back to my previous post, most people commute for long periods because they have to.. not because they want to....

and people move to commuter towns to buy houses because they cant afford to pay house prices in Dublin.... why would anyone settle for a small 1 or 2 bedroom apartment when they can have a house for the same price or even cheaper elsewhere....

MorningStar · 25-10-2005 2:57pm

skywalker_208 wrote:

Well basically going back to my previous post, most people commute for long periods because they have to.. not because they want to....

and people move to commuter towns to buy houses because they cant afford to pay house prices in Dublin.... why would anyone settle for a small 1 or 2 bedroom apartment when they can have a house for the same price or even cheaper elsewhere....

Those two points conflict. People aren't doing it because of lack of choice but due to desire. If people are not bright enough to relaise that a 3-4 round trip to work has a cost and may get longer why help them? I don't want to provide a transport system that is unviable, provide roads, schools why older schools are under used and allow the countryside be destroyed.
As I said it is not need but desire. I know of nobody who was forced to buy a property do you? People should decide for the smaller place in Dublin as it makes sense for the whole country. Less fuel being consumed, less development on green belts, less congestion, les pollution and failing services in older areas get used properly with less expense than new builds.

jank · 25-10-2005 3:03pm

skywalker_208 wrote:

Well basically going back to my previous post, most people commute for long periods because they have to.. not because they want to....

But who makes them, seriously! Who makes them move out to the middle of nowhere? Dont we have the free movement of people in the EU?

skywalker_208 wrote:

and people move to commuter towns to buy houses because they cant afford to pay house prices in Dublin.... why would anyone settle for a small 1 or 2 bedroom apartment when they can have a house for the same price or even cheaper elsewhere....

They would settle for it to save themselves a 3-4 hour commute everyday:rolleyes:

It appears we are going around in circles. People have choices and have to live by the decisions they make everyday. If you move out into the commuter counties then be prepared to write off 4 hours of your day.

skywalker_208 · 25-10-2005 3:14pm

Yes that is exactly what i am saying.. People have a choice and people do choose to live down outside Dublin and are fully aware of the time it will take to commute to work...

Piling everyone into Dublin to live into apartment blocks is not going to solve the issues though....

jank · 25-10-2005 3:30pm

As i said moving jobs and basing companies around the country is one way to try and reverse the trend.

skywalker_208 · 25-10-2005 3:51pm

yes i agree with you there..

one recent example if PFPC International who are opening soon in Navan and creating a few hundred jobs...

A Dub in Glasgo · 25-10-2005 5:53pm

I was offered a job paying €60k based in Dublin 2 weeks ago. I knocked it back because I would have to take a huge cut in my standard of living compared to what I have in Glasgow. I would not consider a long commute and I cannot afford a family home in a reasonable area with a reasonable commute.

HelterSkelter · 25-10-2005 6:49pm

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

I was offered a job paying €60k based in Dublin 2 weeks ago. I knocked it back because I would have to take a huge cut in my standard of living compared to what I have in Glasgow. I would not consider a long commute and I cannot afford a family home in a reasonable area with a reasonable commute.

What was the job, I'll take it!!

civdef · 25-10-2005 7:08pm

Ill think you will find that alot if not most people do it because they have to not because they want to... very few jobs in the country for very many professions compared to Dublin.....

Bingo...

Kobayashi · 25-10-2005 11:07pm

.......and I thought the people spending up to an hour and a half commuting FROM Dublin to my work were crazy. Same scenario where I came from near Edinburgh. Identical problem. No investment in railways and everyone wanting to drive their OWN car to Edinburgh. One person in majority of cars. Only answer is persuading folk out of their cars and it ain't gonna happen without massive investment in trains, bus lanes (and buses). And the chances of that? I've been here 7 months, you tell me (but i think I know the answer)!

skywalker_208 · 26-10-2005 8:08am

Hit the nail on the head there Kobayashi. Using Navan as an example - 2 5pm buses leave Dublin for Navan during the week.. both have people standing on them most evenings due to overcrowding.... similar situations on the mornings on the way up...

why would people choose this over driving their own car.....

MorningStar · 26-10-2005 8:12am

skywalker_208 wrote:

Yes that is exactly what i am saying.. People have a choice and people do choose to live down outside Dublin and are fully aware of the time it will take to commute to work...

Piling everyone into Dublin to live into apartment blocks is not going to solve the issues though....

Actually you said a few times people didn't have a choice. People are not full aware of the cost of living far out from the city or established facilities. Travel times to and from Dublin will get worse as time goes on and many people don't think about it. THe additional wear and tear of cars is often an unfactored cost. No local shops becomes an issue when you need milk for your baby. Lack of schools isn't considered when you don't have kids but 2 years later it is suddenly an issue.

Every other major European city has a larger portion of people living in various high density property. People have to get used to it. The cost of urban sprawl is not isolated to those living there.

Dublin will keep on growing even if other busineses are moved around the country. Higher density is the quickest easy solution. It makes more sense to slow the construction industry industry now rather than cater for peoples' desires at the cost of the next generation.

Peole don't need to move out of Dublin and commute 3-5 hours a day. They choose to and are being catered for. They then complain about their commute and lack of facilities. I paid a premium for my home because of these reason why are they expecting getting the same for less money? I don't think the greed should be allowed

daymobrew · 26-10-2005 8:14am

skywalker_208 wrote:

Hit the nail on the head there Kobayashi. Using Navan as an example - 2 5pm buses leave Dublin for Navan during the week.. both have people standing on them most evenings due to overcrowding.... similar situations on the mornings on the way up...

why would people choose this over driving their own car.....

I get the train to city centre from Coolmine (Maynooth line). The 7:54am inbound service is JAMMED - it's actually like those photos from India - REALLY!
I take it because it's quicker than driving and, despite the gross overcrowding, less stressful. I also get a chance to read.
Thankfully the return journey is a lot less crowded, though still no seat for me.

With the new timetable in December Irish Rail will be putting an extra train on in the morning so hopefully it will help things.

Genghis · 26-10-2005 3:13pm

Like Laoisfan, I too commute from Portlaoise (although I live less than 5 mins from the station).

My commute is as follows:

6:45 Train leaves Portlaoise
7:55 Train arrives Heuston
8:00 Begin cycle to work (Clonskeagh, about 4 miles)
8:25 In Office

Going home:

6:25 Leave Office
6:50 Arrive Heuston
7:00 Depart Heuston
7:50 Arrive Portlaoise

No question, it is a long day, and it does involve 3h-4h travelling a day. But, I use my commute to do things I enjoy:

- Sleep on the way up ... one hours snooze is always welcome in the morning!
- Read / Crossword / Work on the way home
- 40mins cycle a day

I think my commute above is preferable to some other commutes - I once lived in Tallaght and worked in Dun Laoghaire - this was 7/8 years ago, pre Dundrum, etc - that journey was 1h45. Other people spend over an hour just on the M50, or sitting on a bus. On the days I don't cycle, i can take over 1.5hrs to take two buses from Heuston to work.

The point is that travel within Dublin is the worst part of the commute. This effects both commuters from 35 / 50 miles away as it does people from 3.5 / 5 miles away.

As a final point, my preference for a future job would either be - in Laois, or near Laois, or nearer Heuston Station.

Calina · 26-10-2005 8:02pm

MorningStar wrote:

Every other major European city has a larger portion of people living in various high density property. People have to get used to it. The cost of urban sprawl is not isolated to those living there.

Dublin will keep on growing even if other busineses are moved around the country. Higher density is the quickest easy solution. It makes more sense to slow the construction industry industry now rather than cater for peoples' desires at the cost of the next generation.

Peole don't need to move out of Dublin and commute 3-5 hours a day. They choose to and are being catered for. They then complain about their commute and lack of facilities. I paid a premium for my home because of these reason why are they expecting getting the same for less money? I don't think the greed should be allowed

Every other major European city has decent public transport. And personally speaking, the high-density accommodation in Brussels, Frankfurt, Munich and Paris to name but four European cities, including 2 of similar population to Dublin is of significantly better quality than the so called luxury apartments going up in Dublin.

I really don't think you are qualified to tell other people what is best for them without looking at their circumstances. People don't choose long commutes - it happens to be a lesser of several evils, ultimately. I'd look at where people are coming from and sort out the public transport to particular hotspots - properly. It could be a short cut to improving a lot of things. Realistically, you can't expect two thirds of the populations of Navan, Dundalk, Drogheda, Newry, Kildare, Athy, Enniscorthy, Portlaois to move into Dublin - there aren't enough accommodation units for them all at the moment, and you'd drive the already fruitcake of a property market crazy.

The continued growth of Dublin - either high density or low density - is not really sustainable either for Dublin or for the country as a whole. I think the next generation would be better served by moving significant numbers of people out of Dublin. But it's much easier to say we'll just squash more in, isn't it? While we're moving people out to other cities, we could perhaps plan the accommodation and transport a bit more intelligently that Dublin was done. I think the next generations would thank us more for that.

Zaph0d · 26-10-2005 8:56pm

Calina wrote:

I think the next generation would be better served by moving significant numbers of people out of Dublin.

I assume you are not suggesting moving people' by force. Do you think people will leave of their own accord? Do you know of a city where this has happened?

But it's much easier to say we'll just squash more in, isn't it?

Do you think Dublin is squashed? Look at the population densities of the cities you've mentioned above. Some are up to ten times denser than Dublin.

While we're moving people out to other cities, we could perhaps plan the accommodation and transport a bit more intelligently that Dublin was done. I think the next generations would thank us more for that.

we were very poor compared to other european cities for decades but we could have planned better. Congestion isn't much of a problem when your economy is stagnant or in recession.

Metrobest · 26-10-2005 10:26pm

MorningStar wrote:

Dublin will keep on growing even if other busineses are moved around the country. Higher density is the quickest easy solution. It makes more sense to slow the construction industry industry now rather than cater for peoples' desires at the cost of the next generation.

Peole don't need to move out of Dublin and commute 3-5 hours a day. They choose to and are being catered for. They then complain about their commute and lack of facilities. I paid a premium for my home because of these reason why are they expecting getting the same for less money? I don't think the greed should be allowed

I agree with this. There is an element of lifestyle choice about buying a house in one of these commuter towns in the counties bordering Dublin. Personally speaking, I find the idea of sitting in a car for up to four hours each day abhorent; working all day and then returning to a badly-designed semi-detached house in a soulless housing estate ten minute's drive from the nearest town, no shops or ammenties of any kind within walking distance, and no more than postage stamp-sized back garden for the children to play in. The myth that there is any quality of life in moving to such an environment is something that needs to be seriously challenged. An element of government intervention by way of planning regulations is needed to tilt population increases into the metropolitan areas. Most of South Dublin city is actually in population decline while places like Navan and Arklow grow in an unsustainable fashion. Why isn't more being done to stop this?

Transport is key, along with well-designed high-density development along urban corridors, complete with ammenties such as shops, schools, parkland, and social and recreational facilties.

A quality transport route, such as the Swords-Stephen's Green metro, could provide a catylyst an adequate supply of afforable housing within the urban setting of Dublin and would do much to end the trend towards commuter towns in ouylying counties.

Victor · 26-10-2005 10:52pm

Zaph0d wrote:

I assume you are not suggesting moving people' by force. Do you think people will leave of their own accord? Do you know of a city where this has happened?

Potentially you create pull factors, not push factors.

Decentralisation (at an appropriate scale) would be a pull factor. It is currently a push factor.

ubu · 26-10-2005 11:16pm

To the people suggesting 45mins is too long a commute, i live in Santry which is about 5 miles from St.Stephens Green and to get into town for 9:00 am i have to get the bus at 07:50, thats just over an hour, i have a friend who lives in Newbridge which is prob over 30 miles from city centre and he gets the train at pretty much the same time as i get the bus.

I dont see the difference in commmuting from the 2 places if it takes the same amount of time to get into the city centre in the morning.

A Dub in Glasgo · 26-10-2005 11:48pm

Even in the not so booming 1980's, the bus (13) from Ballymun (where I grew up) to Leeson Street (where I worked) took well over an hour in the mornings and evenings. The congestion and long time commute was always there as there is a dire lack of train service in the city (away from the coast).

MorningStar · 27-10-2005 8:29am

Calina wrote:

Every other major European city has decent public transport. And personally speaking, the high-density accommodation in Brussels, Frankfurt, Munich and Paris to name but four European cities, including 2 of similar population to Dublin is of significantly better quality than the so called luxury apartments going up in Dublin.

You have got to be kidding. Paris has a mass of run down apartments that people live in. Most of Dublin's high density property is new, it might not be big but the minimum standards are better than something built 100 odd years old. Brussels, Barcelona, Madrid etc... I don't know about the other cities you mentioned but germany did get to redesign its cities.

Calina wrote:

I really don't think you are qualified to tell other people what is best for them without looking at their circumstances. People don't choose long commutes - it happens to be a lesser of several evils, ultimately. I'd look at where people are coming from and sort out the public transport to particular hotspots - properly.

I can say what is bad for the country and city. As other people all accross Europe can live in this manner means it is a viable option. I don't think people should be catered at to keep the building industry going. THe cost of this will be enormous. Taking the lesser of two evils is a choice and many people do it over desire and want rather than what is best. THey don't say it was the best of two bad options they say it is choice. Proper planing would prevent this building and choice.

Calina wrote:

The continued growth of Dublin - either high density or low density - is not really sustainable either for Dublin or for the country as a whole. I think the next generation would be better served by moving significant numbers of people out of Dublin. But it's much easier to say we'll just squash more in, isn't it? While we're moving people out to other cities, we could perhaps plan the accommodation and transport a bit more intelligently that Dublin was done. I think the next generations would thank us more for that.

Is is easily substainable due to our low density. There are a lot of big houses in Dublin that are getting devloped. Thereare also smaller houses with less use such as 5 and 6 bed houses that people don't really have the families for. THese houses will be split up like what happened all accross the UK. THere is no element of squashing in as there is plenty of room. Urban sprawl makes transport un economic to run. The planing you are talking about means stop building semi-ds around the City for commuting. THe next generation will be living in suburbs that will have little in the way of services and adults won't be home till after work. They will be out of controll and we will probably have another baby boom.

positron · 27-10-2005 9:07am

I commute from Drogheda to City Centre - takes about an hour and a bit.

6:45 - 10 mins walk to station (or 3 mins drive, if its very wet/windy)
7:00 - train leaves for Connolly, I am in IT, and bring my laptop with me - I can work, read, watch movies or sleep.
7:55 (usually 8 by the time I get out of Connolly) - 10 mins Luas or 15 mins walk (again, if its wet/windy etc).

Thats about an hour and 30 mins from door to door. ( :eek: ), but half of that is work anyway.

Some services are quicker in the evening - Connolly-Drogheda in 30 mins to 45 mins.

At the moment, Drogheda is a good place to live (commutewise) IMHO, but sooner or later it would be what Balbriggan is now, when trains start filling up from Dundalk.

MorningStar · 27-10-2005 12:30pm

positron wrote:

I commute from Drogheda to City Centre - takes about an hour and a bit. etc...

Now this is where some people think what they are doing works fine but don't see where the future problems are or the effects it is having on others.
First off not everybody works a job where they can do work on transport.
Transport closer to Dublin is begining to get difficult as people are getting on trains earlier. I have friends that now drive into the city as they can't get on the train. THis increases congestion in th ecity so down grading my quality of life. AS people move further out than Drogheda and start using the train you may find the same happening to you as you say yourself. THe other problem is as commutes increase further out there is a big possibility your house prices may drop a lot quicker if you live further out than an easy commute. If any price drop happens it will hit the commuter places first and hardest. The increases are also less so buying further out may actually trap people out there as I have seen

How far is too far for Dublin commute

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