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How long before there is a Tribunal on the NBS?

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    #2
    RangeR
    Registered Users Posts: 7,265 ✭✭✭RangeR


    ...I am taking a stand for the civil servants...

    Very weird stance for Mr. O'Brien to take.


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    #3
    bealtine
    Registered Users Posts: 4,051 ✭✭✭bealtine


    watty wrote: »
    http://www.sbpost.ie/post/pages/p/story.aspx-qqqt=NEWS-qqqs=news-qqqid=43401-qqqx=1.asp

    "this is the first time in the history of the state that a group of civil servants [at the Department of Communications] would have been accused of corruption.”.


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    #4
    smithcity
    Registered Users Posts: 292 ✭✭smithcity


    It's fair to say that awarding the NBS to 3 Ireland was a stupid move on the part of the government. Rolling out "Broadband for All" is a total charade considering what we are getting is a very poor midband service that by definition can only get worse as time goes by.

    Either the Minister was totally ignorant of how mobile "broadband" works, or he just didn't care as it was the easiest way of giving the appearance that he had made progress. Whichever is true, it's inexcusable.

    Calling the service provided by 3 Ireland "broadband" is nothing short of a lie.

    Watty posted an image on another forum,

    img3.jpg

    Unless a massive amount of money is spent putting transmitters up all over the country, the appalling service from 3 is going to steadily degrade.

    I think there should certainly be a lot more transparency about how the decision was made to embrace this godawful service rather than investing in something that was engineered to actually work!

    I can't see a tribunal being opened over this, but there should definitely be questions asked.


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    #5
    Fogmatic
    Registered Users Posts: 985 ✭✭✭Fogmatic


    Perhaps a tribunal wouldn't be the best route anyway; the technology may have moved on from o2's 'broadband' by the time a decade or so has passed...


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    #6
    thebman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,012 ✭✭✭✭thebman


    One just has to look at the sponsoring of late late show when Eamonn was on and the sponsoring of Irish Open and several other events to see that something may be up on this issue.

    It seems weird that they started sponsoring all these events just after being awarded the NBS.


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    #7
    PogMoThoin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,874 ✭✭✭✭PogMoThoin


    thebman wrote: »
    One just has to look at the sponsoring of late late show when Eamonn was on and the sponsoring of Irish Open and several other events to see that something may be up on this issue.

    It seems weird that they started sponsoring all these events just after being awarded the NBS.

    :rolleyes: Thats an easy one to answer, Three have now got spare cash, they were going to invest and build a network here anyway, we've just given them the cash to do it without them dipping too deep into their own pockets, hence the big advertising and marketing spends


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    #8
    thebman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,012 ✭✭✭✭thebman


    PogMoThoin wrote: »
    :rolleyes: Thats an easy one to answer, Three have now got spare cash, they were going to invest and build a network here anyway, we've just given them the cash to do it without them dipping too deep into their own pockets, hence the big advertising and marketing spends

    I would have thought they'd at least wait until they had started construction of the network to do that.

    And sponsoring the late late on the same date Eamon Ryan goes on to talk about the NBS seems a little suspicious to me as did the completely non-biting questions from Pat.

    3 did it before when they first launched their mobile products. The Last Word had done two features on 3 and were Matt Cooper was bringing it up more and more then 3 sponsored the show and all mention of 3 stopped.


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    #9
    mk6705
    Registered Users Posts: 721 ✭✭✭mk6705


    There's no doubt in my mind that there's some hidden agenda in the Department Of Communications. Subsidizing a network rollout for "broadband" is fairly suspicious. And anyway, the minister for communications should be someone who knows this kind of stuff inside out. I mean most of the people on this forum know much better, or so it appears. Can anyone even see a viable way of informing the people of these areas that they're not really getting broadband?


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    #10
    DropTables
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10 ✭DropTables


    The only remaining tenders in the process were both Mobile. They chose the cheapest. No conspiracy. Just ineptitude of design & specification of the process.


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    #11
    thebman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,012 ✭✭✭✭thebman


    The design and specification looked fine TBH. The final solution is supposed to be capable of VOIP and minimum speesd. I don't think mobile technology satisfies the requirements laid out.

    I think they had no other options and should have abandoned the whole thing. They are happier to be seen to do be doing something in the hope to get votes IMO :-/


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    #12
    DropTables
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10 ✭DropTables


    The structure excluded anyone not already involved in rolling out a new national network that didn't need the money to rollout. Hence only eircom (Meteor) and 3.

    Not feasible for any regional WISP to tender.

    Not enough spectrum for any new Fixed Wireless Infrastructure.

    Not enough money.

    Everyone withdrew and many never entered, except eircom and 3. eircom was going to mostly use the new Meteor 3G/HSPA rollout, but had realistic pricing, especially for Satellite. 3 priced an imaginary Satellite service and offered below cost price so they won.


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    #13
    SkepticOne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,718 ✭✭✭SkepticOne


    It was doomed before it began. The key problem was that it was "national" rather than multiple regional projects. The government should have been reading the forum here where this was pointed out.


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    #14
    watty
    Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    They deduced the wrong reasons for the GBS (Group Broadband Scheme) being a failure. They deliberately avoided regional for that reason. Of course it should have been people bidding for EDs and up to 2 companies per ED and a separate Network Manager / Operator appointed from a tender of Operators that have suitable Infrastructure / NOC / Data Centres etc.


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    #15
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,792 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    watty wrote: »
    They deduced the wrong reasons for the GBS (Group Broadband Scheme) being a failure.
    They were claiming up until last year that the GBS was a failure because of lack of demand.

    Their evidence for "lack of demand": nobody was applying for GBS funding.

    When was the last time it was possible to apply for GBS funding?

    July 2005.


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    #16
    bealtine
    Registered Users Posts: 4,051 ✭✭✭bealtine


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    They were claiming up until last year that the GBS was a failure because of lack of demand.

    Their evidence for "lack of demand": nobody was applying for GBS funding.

    When was the last time it was possible to apply for GBS funding?

    July 2005.


    Now that really is something Sir Humphrey (Yes Minister) would be proud of...


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    #17
    clohamon
    Registered Users Posts: 1,767 ✭✭✭clohamon


    bealtine wrote: »
    Now that really is something Sir Humphrey (Yes Minister) would be proud of...

    Incidentally, Sir Humphrey also denied having a "waiting list" for the GBS, because since the third round of the scheme had not actually been announced there was technically nothing to be waiting for. Its important to remember this the next time you find yourself standing around aimlessly at a bus stop. You can only be said to be waiting for a bus if you know for sure there is a bus coming. If there isn't, you are loitering and had better move along.

    Looking back on it, the idea of having maybe 500 separate GBS schemes, all subject to financial and technical audit, looks less like a broadband policy and more like bureaucratic self-harm.

    On a slightly related topic, Digiweb made an NBS type proposal to the department back in June 2006. Time has passed; it could hardly be commercially sensitive anymore - it would be interesting to see what they had in mind. Maybe they (Digiweb) would release it. It was called "Achievement of 100% Broadband availability in Ireland Utilising Fixed and Mobile Wireless Technology"

    Anyone know anyone in Digiweb........?


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    #18
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    It was Digiweb Mobile based .


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    #19
    bealtine
    Registered Users Posts: 4,051 ✭✭✭bealtine


    clohamon wrote: »

    Looking back on it, the idea of having maybe 500 separate GBS schemes, all subject to financial and technical audit, looks less like a broadband policy and more like bureaucratic self-harm.

    Agreed but then the original idea was to create an alternative infrastructure based on standards and a basic quality of service, this could have been achieved. However we now have exactly the opposite, no quality of service and a monopoly provider with a terrible service record on service provision and customer service.

    I doubt there would ever have been 500 different service providers though:)


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    #20
    watty
    Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    Sponge Bob wrote: »
    It was Digiweb Mobile based .

    And also Metro for larger population areas

    Maybe some fixed 3.5GHz WiMax too.

    Though the Digiweb Mobile suffers from being Mobile (problem to control Contention) it is < 40ms latency and doesn't breathe.

    100% the Digiweb Mobile (Flash-OFDMA) 900MHz in rural, with option for outdoor radio chimney 13dBi aerials + POE router.

    Also router (ethernet) + WiFI with phone port option.

    So not ideal, but typically x4 better than 3G/HSPDA. It was horribly expensive, so I researched a non-Mobile Nomadic/fixed alternative. Trials of alternative worked well with better cell edge performance. But the cheap alternative needed a lot more work. That alternative project ended in January. As did my Digiweb connection.


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