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Assigned Certifier Cost

  • 07-10-2015 2:23pm
    #1
    0e1
    Registered Users Posts: 73 ✭✭


    Hi just got a quote on my self build from an Assigned Certifier And he wants in excess of €8000 for doing it .
    Is this the norm ? Or is he trying his luck ?
    House is story and a half 3000sq/ft
    Thanks


Comments

  • #2
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,838 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    0e1 wrote: »
    Hi just got a quote on my self build from an Assigned Certifier And he wants in excess of €8000 for doing it .
    Is this the norm ? Or is he trying his luck ?
    House is story and a half 3000sq/ft
    Thanks

    are you not going to opt out?


  • #3
    Strolling Bones
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 615 ✭✭✭Strolling Bones


    Since 01 Sep 15 you don't need an Assigned Certifier

    http://www.environ.ie/en/DevelopmentHousing/BuildingStandards/News/MainBody,42562,en.htm


  • #4
    0e1
    Registered Users Posts: 73 ✭✭0e1


    This is why Boards is so useful ! Thanks did not know this had changed for real


  • #5
    BryanF
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 10,141 Mod ✭✭✭✭BryanF


    0e1 wrote: »
    This is why Boards is so useful ! Thanks did not know this had changed for real

    Check with your bank before jumping for joy.


  • #6
    Chemical Byrne
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,311 ✭✭✭Chemical Byrne


    Would there be any way of getting the benefit of this exemption for a multi unit development?
    Like maybe applying for planning for a small scheme of houses all in separate applications or something?
    Or do you have to intend on living in the house?


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  • #7
    Penn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,242 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    Chemical Byrne wrote: »
    Would there be any way of getting the benefit of this exemption for a multi unit development?
    Like maybe applying for planning for a small scheme of houses all in separate applications or something?
    Or do you have to intend on living in the house?

    None. Planners aren't idiots. Not to mention that for a multi-unit development, you're incredibly likely to have shared drainage systems, site access etc which can't be done under separate applications. As well as that you would run the risk of one application being granted and then limiting what you can do with the rest of the site, including it being a planning condition of not being able to build any more houses on it. Add to that the exemption only applies to one-off houses, which means if the proposed multi-unit development consisted of semi-d houses, terraces or duplexes, the exemption obviously couldn't apply. And doing it as separate applications would also likely be seen as a way of avoiding Part V requirements for social housing, which the planners would probably really come down on you hard for.

    It would be extremely obvious that the separate applications are part of one development. And for multi-unit developments, the cost of an assigned certifier far outweighs the risks you'd be taking with improper supervision and certification for a multi-unit development. If anything, the cost of the separate applications/development contributions would likely be the equivalent of what you'd save by not having an assigned certifier, so it's likely not worth doing regardless.

    tl;dr - Don't even try it.


  • #8
    Chemical Byrne
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,311 ✭✭✭Chemical Byrne


    So their's no way of circumventing it? I thought so pretty much. Anyway, the hassle and cost of preparing and managing several different applications would probably far outweigh the cost of BCR compliance.

    Say for your typical 3 bed semi d, what would the cost of BCR be over and above the old "substantially in compliance" regime of old?


  • #9
    Penn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,242 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    Chemical Byrne wrote: »
    Say for your typical 3 bed semi d, what would the cost of BCR be over and above the old "substantially in compliance" regime of old?

    Truth is, your question can't really be answered as there's an economy of scale. The cost for an assigned certifier for a 3-bed semi-d is irrelevant if you're building 20 semi-d's, as much of the work (desk work regarding paperwork, chasing up certs etc and site-work regarding time spent on site and travelling to site etc) is repeated and can be done in tandem (same way a 40sq.m extension doesn't necessarily cost double what a 20sq.m extension would, as a lot of it requires the same amount of site work etc). It also depends who the assigned certifier is. Are they also the design certifier (as it means they have a better understanding of their own design and it reduces back and forth between the two where changes need to be made)?

    The only true answer to your question, is to get quotes.


  • #10
    Chemical Byrne
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,311 ✭✭✭Chemical Byrne


    I understand about the scale of development, ecomonies of scale etc. Well that would be the scale I'd be thinking of, 10-20 houses. I should be EI chartered next year so I suppose I could fulfill the AC duties myself then although I'd prob have architect and constultant engineer specialising in housing as designer. Think of it, prob better let them do it. Anyway, that's a bit off yet. Without finance I'm going nowhere.


  • #11
    Penn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,242 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    Well, then you're into self-certification and I ain't touching that with a 3.048m bargepole. You're on your own with that one...


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  • #12
    DOCARCH
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 18,159 Mod ✭✭✭✭DOCARCH


    Chemical Byrne wrote: »
    I should be EI chartered next year so I suppose I could fulfill the AC duties myself.

    At the moment, you can be the developer/builder and the assigned certifier...but...watch out for a change in that scenario in the near future!


  • #13
    Chemical Byrne
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,311 ✭✭✭Chemical Byrne


    Penn wrote: »
    Well, then you're into self-certification and I ain't touching that with a 3.048m bargepole. You're on your own with that one...

    Well I'm sure half the developers in the country have their own engineer/architect on the books who they'll have sign off on plans transposed onto their current site from a past project.


  • #14
    Chemical Byrne
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,311 ✭✭✭Chemical Byrne


    Penn wrote: »
    Well, then you're into self-certification and I ain't touching that with a 3.048m bargepole. You're on your own with that one...

    I don't get you. It is legal and allowed for under the BCR though, is it not?


  • #15
    Penn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,242 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    Chemical Byrne wrote: »
    Well I'm sure half the developers in the country have their own engineer/architect on the books who they'll have sign off on plans transposed onto their current site from a past project.

    Doesn't mean it's right or what should be done. And any engineer/architect/surveyor worth their salt who does it, isn't worth their salt at all.


  • #16
    Penn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,242 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    Chemical Byrne wrote: »
    I don't get you. It is legal and allowed for under the BCR though, is it not?

    It's legal. But I think you're opening yourself up for a world of pain without an independent certifier. The vast majority of issues relating to multi-unit developments & particularly apartments such as Priory Hall, Longboat Quat, Riverwalk Court etc, is due to self-certification. Ultimately, it allows a developer to not build in compliance with building regs etc, sign it off saying they did, and all of a sudden, you have people buying properties that are certified, but aren't in compliance (whether intentionally not in compliance or not).

    Again, not saying you wouldn't build in accordance with the regs, but sometimes it's hard seeing the forest for the trees, and you might build something which isn't in compliance, certify it, and open yourself up to legal action later if it's found to not be in compliance.


  • #17
    Strolling Bones
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 615 ✭✭✭Strolling Bones


    Chemical Byrne wrote: »
    I should be EI chartered next year so I suppose I could fulfill the AC duties myself then although I'd prob have architect and constultant engineer specialising in housing as designer. Think of it, prob better let them do it. Anyway, that's a bit off yet. Without finance I'm going nowhere.

    With that approach and for the sake of your would be home buyers I hope you never build. This mentality has left us with a terrible legacy.


  • #18
    RORY O CONNOR
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 270 ✭✭RORY O CONNOR


    If you opt out you still have to prove to the council that the house has been built to the building regs and if you can't do this you may find that they will say you are in breach of your planning.


  • #19
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,838 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    RORY O CONNOR wrote: »
    If you opt out you still have to prove to the council that the house has been built to the building regs and if you can't do this you may find that they will say you are in breach of your planning.

    planning and building regs have nothing to do with each other


  • #20
    Strolling Bones
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 615 ✭✭✭Strolling Bones


    RORY O CONNOR wrote: »
    If you opt out you still have to prove to the council that the house has been built to the building regs and if you can't do this you may find that they will say you are in breach of your planning.

    Well they may ask at commencement notice stage ( or later) - using powers granted to them by the Building control Act 1990 - for evidence of compliance with building regulations.

    Otherwise your statement is as well constructed as Priory Hall.


  • #21
    RORY O CONNOR
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 270 ✭✭RORY O CONNOR


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    planning and building regs have nothing to do with each other

    Its part of the planning permission application that it will be built to building regs!


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  • #22
    RORY O CONNOR
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 270 ✭✭RORY O CONNOR


    Strolling Bones wrote: »
    Well they may ask at commencement notice stage ( or later) - using powers granted to them by the Building control Act 1990 - for evidence of compliance with building regulations.


    They may ask for evidence and if you don't have evidence then what do you do.


  • #23
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,838 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    RORY O CONNOR wrote: »
    Its part of the planning permission application that it will be built to building regs!

    where exactly?


  • #24
    Strolling Bones
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 615 ✭✭✭Strolling Bones


    RORY O CONNOR wrote: »
    They may ask for evidence and if you don't have evidence then what do you do.

    Appoint BER assesor and send the LA his/her DEAP calcs.
    Appoint engineer/architect/ woodwork teacher to write to the LA to ask what exactly are they looking for.

    Basically

    Keep-calm-and-carry-on-scan.jpg


  • #25
    RORY O CONNOR
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 270 ✭✭RORY O CONNOR


    Chemical Byrne wrote: »
    Would there be any way of getting the benefit of this exemption for a multi unit development?
    Like maybe applying for planning for a small scheme of houses all in separate applications or something?
    Or do you have to intend on living in the house?

    The opt out only applies to one off individual houses or one one extension to one house. If the development is more than one dwelling then you need an assigned certifier.


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