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RTAs

  • 17-10-2014 12:06pm
    #1
    horsebox7
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 452 ✭✭


    Just wondering what experiences injured cyclists have had in dealing with the authorities after RTAs?


Comments

  • #2
    Beasty
    Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 77,534 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    Which authorities are you thinking of? I've had 2 major accidents, neither involving motor vehicles, and the Gardaí/police were uninterested (AFAIK). I have though had extensive experience of the health authorities (which was not particularly good on either occasion)


  • #3
    Borderfox
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,263 ✭✭✭✭Borderfox


    Had a bad smash in the Phoenix park about 25 years ago, driver turned left alongside me and I ended up going over the bonnet and hitting the road hard. Driver stopped and the passenger gave me details but turned out to be false, luckily another driver made a note of the reg and got them through that. Gardai were not interested in what was a hit and run and just went through the insurance route without a prosecution.

    I was also hit by a driver while out training who went through a red light (said he didnt see me) Gardai arrived but didnt want to prosecute him so just got the guy to pay for the damage to the bike.

    Allergy to paperwork was my prognosis

    Whats your particular query op?


  • #4
    Red Belly
    Registered Users Posts: 195 ✭✭Red Belly


    Got hit by a car a few years back. At first I didn't seem to have too bad an injury but a few weeks later it turned out a badly bruised hand was a wrist fracture and spent a lot of time in plaster doing physio (very painful!) etc. Decided to pursue a claim for medical/Physio bills etc. Got a solicitor to pursue the case and had a lot of trouble getting details from the Garda who attended the scene. He even had the wrong license plate number! Solicitor was great though, dealt with the insurers and delivered a quick settlement.

    RB


  • #5
    Jawgap
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,297 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    I've had three near misses.

    In two of them the Guards were brilliant (going as far as to prosecute one muppette) - in the case of the third one the first Guard I reported it to was useless to the point of being hostile, but then his sergeant stepped in and I was quite happy with how they dealt with it from that point forward.

    Agree with Beasty regarding the HSE - the one time I did need treatment I spent nearly eight hours wishing I just gone home and had my wife drive me to Newry!!


  • #6
    horsebox7
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 452 ✭✭horsebox7


    I have a friend who was involved in a collison with a car who was at fault but unfortunately the guard who the incident was reported to was not very accomodating or empathetic. I was just wondering if this was common or an exception? Perhaps this is how such incidents are dealt with in the majority of cases?


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  • #7
    Beasty
    Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 77,534 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    Jawgap wrote: »

    Agree with Beasty regarding the HSE - the one time I did need treatment I spent nearly eight hours wishing I just gone home and had my wife drive me to Newry!!

    Cannot say I was particularly impressed with the health services in Newry after my most recent "incident"

    Still significantly better than Dublin I guess....


  • #8
    buffalo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,095 ✭✭✭buffalo


    horsebox7 wrote: »
    Just wondering what experiences injured cyclists have had in dealing with the authorities after RTAs?

    The ambo and fire brigade folk were great at the scene, A&E was a bit chaotic but they took care of me. Had to go back to be re-admitted after the weekend, and spent about 20 hours fasting and about 8 waiting around the hospital only to be told 'no surgery today' after all. Resources issue I guess, affects the entire country.

    The Garda on the scene was worst than useless. Despite taking a brief account from me in the back of the ambulance, he failed to take the details of the person who caused the incident, nor any witnesses'. And then he tried to cover up the fact that he hadn't bothered by lying to me. Then GSOC said I submitted my complaint too late, so that was the end of that.


  • #9
    Raam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,317 ✭✭✭✭Raam


    In my single case the Garda was brilliant. A&E were fine from what I remember.


  • #10
    Wishbone Ash
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,011 ✭✭✭✭Wishbone Ash


    2 incidents involving motor vehicles.

    Ambulance/Fire Brigade were fine. Gardai were also helpful and detailed but seemed a bit obsessed about whether I was wearing hi-viz or not.

    Worst part was a very rough radiographer who had me in absolute agony while she pushed, pulled and prodded me while x-raying my broken ribs and collar bone.


  • #11
    Beasty
    Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 77,534 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    I'll throw in my A&E/Hospital experiences then.

    First time a few years ago the first thing I remember was coming out ofa scanner at the Beaumont. Was then wheeled into A&E where I remained for the rest of the day. I remember I was sat beside a dear old lady who really was unsure about everything that was going on, so I actually spent the day chatting to her and keeping her company. It was only towards the end of the day (having been admitted early in the morning) I found out I was being kept in and even later when they actually found a bed for me

    Then there was Newry. I was "sleeping" when admitted and hardly remember anything other than the fact I was sent home the day after my crash. They had missed my broken jaw and said what turned out to be a broken elbow was a broken wrist. However what really concerns me looking back was the fact that they released me at all given what I've since discovered about the scale of concussion and brain injury I had suffered. I may have been merrily posting away on Boards when I got home, but the only evidence I have of my "state of mind" is by looking back at what I was saying at the time. I'm pretty sure I convinced everyone, including myself, I was in a far better condition than I really was, although that did not become clear for a couple of months or more. There were plenty of other issues with my treatment when I eventually got admitted to hospital in Dublin for surgery, but again they really had little interest in considering the continuing effects of the brain injury I was suffering from


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  • #12
    horsebox7
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 452 ✭✭horsebox7


    Hi,

    Your post regarding GSOC is interesting. What period of time do you have if you wish to report an incident?


  • #13
    buffalo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,095 ✭✭✭buffalo


    horsebox7 wrote: »
    Hi,

    Your post regarding GSOC is interesting. What period of time do you have if you wish to report an incident?

    I presume that's aimed at me... I think it's six months. It was about 15 months before I managed to get everything sorted and I knew that making a complaint against him wouldn't prejudice any court case or anything, but apparently that wasn't a "good reason" to extend the time limit.


  • #14
    horsebox7
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 452 ✭✭horsebox7


    That's terrible, sorry to hear that. Looks like you were unfortunately caught in a catch 22 situation there. How did you manage to sort out the situation if the garda didn't take the drivers details or the details of any witnesses. Was there CCTV there maybe?


  • #15
    buffalo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,095 ✭✭✭buffalo


    It was treated as a hit and run.


  • #16
    tampopo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,333 ✭✭✭tampopo


    The Gardai were dire. From not turning up/taking an age to turn up to disinterest/refusing to take a statement to "what do you want us to do?"


  • #17
    m5ex9oqjawdg2i
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,221 ✭✭✭✭m5ex9oqjawdg2i


    Went to the Gardai about a near miss (Bus flying in the bus/cycle lane put me into a wobble, inches from death). Garda was an absolute ignorant swine. Didn't want anything to do with it, told me it would be too difficult to find the driver even though I gave a description, vehicle reg, bus number, etc etc. Laziness.

    Reported a taxi man for road rage. Called traffic watch who were pretty helpful. Said they had cautioned him.


  • #18
    MugMugs
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,875 ✭✭✭✭MugMugs


    Beasty wrote: »
    Then there was Newry.

    I've brought a few heads to Daisy hill coming back from Castlewellan and Rostrevor with various degrees of injury and generally, if you can walk despite the E1-11, they threaten the charge card and don't want to know !

    Because you're not NHS, they probably just wanted shot of you.

    We're going very American with our healthcare :(


  • #19
    horsebox7
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 452 ✭✭horsebox7


    A lot of people seem dissatisfied with the garda handling of cyclists who are injured. I wonder why the garda are so disinterested and dismissive? Aren't they supposed to protect and serve or at least be guardians of the peace?


  • #20
    Crocked
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 543 ✭✭✭Crocked


    horsebox7 wrote: »
    A lot of people seem dissatisfied with the garda handling of cyclists who are injured. I wonder why the garda are so disinterested and dismissive? Aren't they supposed to protect and serve or at least be guardians of the peace?

    I wonder if top brass and press don't really care about those particular conviction rates, so word gets filtered down to the Garda on the street to focus on the sexier crimes like burglary or drink driving. A Garda will then give more attention to those then the less media friendly crimes like cyclists being injured etc


  • #21
    horsebox7
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 452 ✭✭horsebox7


    Good point maybe you are right.. It could also be that they are trying to keep statistics on cyclists injured down. It might make the place appear to be safer than it actually is.


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  • #22
    galwaycyclist
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,912 ✭✭✭galwaycyclist


    horsebox7 wrote: »
    A lot of people seem dissatisfied with the garda handling of cyclists who are injured. I wonder why the garda are so disinterested and dismissive? Aren't they supposed to protect and serve or at least be guardians of the peace?

    No. If you check their own descriptions of themselves you will find a curious emphasis on maintaining free flow of traffic.

    Arguably, the guards don't see themselves as a police service as such but more like uniformed agents of economic activity - for which "flow" and "volume" of motor vehicles is seen as a proxy.

    Edit: This is one of the reasons why, in my view, the next Garda Commissioner must be from outside Ireland. Preferably also from a non-english speaking country so from Scandanavia, the low countries or Germany. A swiss or french person might also suit.


  • #23
    Muahahaha
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,688 ✭✭✭✭Muahahaha


    galwaycyclist wrote: »
    No. If you check their own descriptions of themselves you will find a curious emphasis on maintaining free flow of traffic.

    Arguably, the guards don't see themselves as a police service as such but more like uniformed agents of economic activity - for which "flow" and "volume" of motor vehicles is seen as a proxy.

    Edit: This is one of the reasons why, in my view, the next Garda Commissioner must be from outside Ireland. Preferably also from a non-english speaking country so from Scandanavia, the low countries or Germany. A swiss or french person might also suit.

    Its funny you say that as I was driving a mates car there a few years back. It was insured and I was a named driver but when I was stopped at a checkpoint I had nothing on me or in the car to prove it. The two Guards seemed to be in a flip over the insurance even though I reassured them I was a named driver and could prove it at the station. They rang it in and found out I was telling the truth but it was the way in which they dealt with the whole situation and the fact they never asked for nor checked for tax that kind of irked me. I had fully gotten the impression that they were hell bent on protecting the revenue of insurance companies but not once did they come across as bothered about the motor tax. I found it bizarre which is why what you said above resonated with me somewhat.


  • #24
    Iwannahurl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,156 ✭✭✭Iwannahurl


    galwaycyclist wrote: »
    No. If you check their own descriptions of themselves you will find a curious emphasis on maintaining free flow of traffic.

    Arguably, the guards don't see themselves as a police service as such but more like uniformed agents of economic activity - for which "flow" and "volume" of motor vehicles is seen as a proxy.

    Edit: This is one of the reasons why, in my view, the next Garda Commissioner must be from outside Ireland. Preferably also from a non-english speaking country so from Scandanavia, the low countries or Germany. A swiss or french person might also suit.


    You're on to something there. Local Authorities have the same (unwritten) policy, which appears to be based on mutual back-scratching. Car culture is given a free pass, often literally, with the payback being direct or indirect revenue generation.

    It is also the case that police forces are a mirror image of society’s prevailing values. AGS members themselves, being part of Irish society, are steeped in car culture. Motorists and their cars are also widely seen as being more important, perhaps because of the economic impact of societal and institutional car dependence.

    I realised this about five years ago when speaking to a sergeant about AGS handling of traffic in a certain situation. I was trying to point out that the traffic congestion they were trying to deal with was a direct consequence of their laissez faire attitude to parking control. He had no awareness, in a practical sense, of what I was talking about, and saw the wider issue of transportation demand management as being an environmental matter and therefore entirely outside the remit of AGS.

    As for Swiss Guards, could be interesting. ;)http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_Guard#mediaviewer/File:Swiss_Guard-_LobozPics.jpg


  • #25
    slap/dash
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 648 ✭✭✭slap/dash


    Yeah I really like Galway cyclist's critique there.
    The best analogies are the ones that are so obvious when they're made but still withstand challenge. Well done.


  • #26
    horsebox7
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 452 ✭✭horsebox7


    Keep the traffic and the revenue stream flowing and let's not get too worried about more vulnerable road users. Terrible mindset.. Mob rule applies.


  • #27
    Iwannahurl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,156 ✭✭✭Iwannahurl


    horsebox7 wrote: »
    Mob rule applies.


    I'd say it's more majority rule, in the crude sense sense that the larger number get to decide on matters that affect the minority.

    Also a case of Might is Right.

    And of course an unshakeable belief that only one group is "paying the piper" and therefore has an absolute right to call the tune.

    Etc.


  • #28
    horsebox7
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 452 ✭✭horsebox7


    Ok. I take your point. However it must be said that many people use multiple modes of transport in their lives and not just one. Therefore the majority do infact pay the piper.


  • #29
    Iwannahurl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,156 ✭✭✭Iwannahurl


    According to the EPA, 75% of trips in Ireland are made by car.


  • #30
    Bloggsie
    Registered Users Posts: 1,054 ✭✭✭Bloggsie


    horsebox7 wrote: »
    Good point maybe you are right.. It could also be that they are trying to keep statistics on cyclists injured down. It might make the place appear to be safer than it actually is.
    if a Guard cycling on duty is knocked down what are the chances that the driver will be hunted down & publically flogged? BTW I do not wish to appear that I am wanting anyone to run over a bike mounted Guard to prove a point.


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  • #31
    BoardsMember
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,497 ✭✭✭BoardsMember


    Bloggsie wrote: »
    if a Guard cycling on duty is knocked down what are the chances that the driver will be hunted down & publically flogged? BTW I do not wish to appear that I am wanting anyone to run over a bike mounted Guard to prove a point.

    I'd say that's the case no more than if a member of the Gardaí is injured while in his squad car by hit and run/bad driving/drink driving or whatever.


  • #32
    horsebox7
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 452 ✭✭horsebox7


    Would a garda on bicycle who is involved in a collision with a motor propelled vehicle not be treated just the same as an ordinary member of the public who is involved in a collision?


  • #33
    Bloggsie
    Registered Users Posts: 1,054 ✭✭✭Bloggsie


    horsebox7 wrote: »
    Would a garda on bicycle who is involved in a collision with a motor propelled vehicle not be treated just the same as an ordinary member of the public who is involved in a collision?
    from looking at the varied responses on this thread where the attitude of the attending gardai ranged from very professional and poractive to as helpful as a handbrake on an canoe it cant not be taken as red.


  • #34
    horsebox7
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 452 ✭✭horsebox7


    It is also possible that crime figures including RTAs can be massaged.

    http://www.thejournal.ie/state-of-the-nation-garda-crime-figures-1773294-Nov2014/


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