Future for my wife and I

Borinis_Socks · 20-01-2015 6:45pm

Shrap wrote: »

I don't want to be harsh OP, but you sound incredibly clueless about your own relationship. OK, so you were far from a layabout and are now financially very well off - that's great, and I completely believe you were doing it all for your family. However, it sounds like you were working in your own little bubble.

NOW you're lonely. But where was the friendship/intimacy/understanding between you for the last 6 years? Having a good job doesn't give you the right to a good relationship. Sounds like you both have had nothing in common for years.

NOW you want another child and/or sex. You approached her about this and she rejected it out of hand. And you seem surprised. You two are strangers to each other, living in two separate worlds in the same house. Indeed you are peripheral in the family, ie. your wife and daughter have a family life, and now you want to join in. Why weren't you joining in for 6 years? I imagine your wife laughed bitterly when you suggested a discussion alright. It can't have been nice to hear that rejection, but tbh, she must have built up a right head of resentment, disappointment and quite possibly apathy at this stage.

You're coming at this from completely the wrong direction. You have a list of issues this way round in order of preference - 1.another baby, 2.sex, 3.being less peripheral, 4.going out somewhere with your wife, 5.wanting to talk, 6.realising that you have nothing in common any more/no relationship basically.

You should have your issues the other way round and work on them accordingly. Start at 6 and work back. If you get to number 4, you stand some chance of a relationship with your family. In my opinion.

Thanks for the pointers there and I'll take them on board, but I have to say, there seems to be some misunderstandings about my level of involvement with my family. There has hardly been a night I've been out of the house in the last 6 years. I've been fully engaged and hands-on during waking hours. Shopping, baby-sitting while wife has met friends etc. etc. I haven't said this before but a lot of the dialog I hear on the phone with her friends are men are this, that and the other (only after one thing) and then they leave.
At one stage it crossed my mind, that maybe my wife has some sort of defence mechanism built in that, she subconsciously expects me to leave just because I'm a man. I don't know.

Leo12 · 20-01-2015 7:04pm

You know what you have to do, be straight with her. further to other posters have said I can't believe there has been no intimacy for 4 years! She knows well the marriage is in trouble too ....you are both still young and what's the story with her not wanting to go out socially for a meal, to watch a play or for a few drinks and enjoy herself ? Not to be horrible or anything but she sounds way old before her time..my 80 year old auntie goes out 4 times a week and is having the item of her life ! ....

Shrap · 20-01-2015 7:07pm

Borinis_Socks wrote: »

Thanks for the pointers there and I'll take them on board, but I have to say, there seems to be some misunderstandings about my level of involvement with my family. There has hardly been a night I've been out of the house in the last 6 years. I've been fully engaged and hands-on during waking hours. Shopping, baby-sitting while wife has met friends etc. etc. I haven't said this before but a lot of the dialog I hear on the phone with her friends are men are this, that and the other (only after one thing) and then they leave.
At one stage it crossed my mind, that maybe my wife has some sort of defence mechanism built in that, she subconsciously expects me to leave just because I'm a man. I don't know.

Thanks for coming back with more information Socks. You're painting a much clearer picture now, as your first posts seemed very much to start at the baby making idea and end with the ironing not making a fulfilling relationship. Now it's clear that you are encountering some genuine issues with your wife's attitude, posters here might have some different ideas.

First off, I don't hold with anyone having the "All men are..." or "All women are..." attitudes. It's insulting to all individuals having to listen to them. To my mind, in any successful relationship, BOTH genders are after a lot more than one thing. Friendship, companionship, respect, intimacy, tolerance......any of those that are missing and that relationship is in crisis.

What strikes me here are your words "I don't know". You don't know what your wife makes of you, your involvement in your family, what expectations she has built up (if any) or whether the attitudes you are overhearing are referring to you. She also doesn't know the extent of your concerns, or you wouldn't be here posting ...

I'm going to second the posters who recommended marriage counselling. You started here earlier with such a one-sided description of your relationship that it could have been taken up as all your problem. Now I can see that you seem to have fallen into a massively insular existence where you and your wife have an incredibly restricted form of communication and your first post may have been an expression of that. You both should broaden your communication, in a big way, but that will take asking her. Ask her whether she is willing to work on finding out if anything is to be salvaged and finding out what each other are about these days, as you've both got a problem if you can't talk to each other.

I hope she feels the same way as you and recognises that the man she married is still there, but is maybe in hiding.....

ThatFatGal · 20-01-2015 7:15pm

Reading all the posts in the thread, it kinda makes me sad and frustrated that you and your wife have left your marriage in this stage for so long and that it only has hit you now to mildly complain about it while for the best part of it, defending yourself!

I feel your frustration and yes, it's not right that there is no 'us' time or intimacy in your marriage. I'm a woman but I'd imagine you feel extremely lonely and unloved!

But then, I also feel that your wife is extremely frustrated and tired and lonely in this marriage - at home (full time I guess?) with a young child with ailments and a husband who's clueless to say the least. I get the feeling that she's already given up on the romantic side of your relationship and merely cohabiting for the benefit of your child.

I agree with one of the posters above - I also have friends with young children and married with a good husband but they all told me that once you have children, husbands become nuisance cuz they don't help out and it all falls upon you while trying to also fulfill their wifely duty every so often!!

It also appears to me that you may have a communication issue with your wife - you sound like you can't totally open up to her and approach the issue.

I think the core of the issue is communication - you both know that there is a problem but do you want to talk about it? Does she want to talk about it? Or is she ok to continue like this? Are you ok to continue like this?

Tell her you've had enough and that you want to talk about this for once and for all. This sex issue isn't just an issue about sex. It's an issue with your marriage and there's a big knot that needs to be untangled.

I also suggest a couple's therapy but seriously, just open up to her and talk to her. Why don't you leave the child with a relative or a babysitter for the night and sit down with her alone? Why don't you write her a long letter telling her how you feel and how much you love her?

Borinis_Socks · 21-01-2015 9:19am

ThatFatGal wrote: »

Reading all the posts in the thread, it kinda makes me sad and frustrated that you and your wife have left your marriage in this stage for so long and that it only has hit you now to mildly complain about it while for the best part of it, defending yourself!

I feel your frustration and yes, it's not right that there is no 'us' time or intimacy in your marriage. I'm a woman but I'd imagine you feel extremely lonely and unloved!

But then, I also feel that your wife is extremely frustrated and tired and lonely in this marriage - at home (full time I guess?) with a young child with ailments and a husband who's clueless to say the least. I get the feeling that she's already given up on the romantic side of your relationship and merely cohabiting for the benefit of your child.

I agree with one of the posters above - I also have friends with young children and married with a good husband but they all told me that once you have children, husbands become nuisance cuz they don't help out and it all falls upon you while trying to also fulfill their wifely duty every so often!!

It also appears to me that you may have a communication issue with your wife - you sound like you can't totally open up to her and approach the issue.

I think the core of the issue is communication - you both know that there is a problem but do you want to talk about it? Does she want to talk about it? Or is she ok to continue like this? Are you ok to continue like this?

Tell her you've had enough and that you want to talk about this for once and for all. This sex issue isn't just an issue about sex. It's an issue with your marriage and there's a big knot that needs to be untangled.

I also suggest a couple's therapy but seriously, just open up to her and talk to her. Why don't you leave the child with a relative or a babysitter for the night and sit down with her alone? Why don't you write her a long letter telling her how you feel and how much you love her?

Thanks everyone for your posts. Yes communication is the issue but can I point out that I'm far from clueless. As you can all imagine relationships can be complex and it's difficult to portray everything in short posts.
Only counselling would really work.
However I spoke to wife last night in bed after daughter fell asleep.
I told her I loved them but current situation needed to change. Initially there was resistance, as in "what situation" and trying to deflect onto other issues, which I said we could discuss separately, but I stuck to the main point.
I asked her did she have resentment for me having to work late (rarely) when our daughter was born and did she understand why I done it and for who I done it. She said she knew my reasons were well intentioned but that was no good to her with a new baby. Let me reiterate it was the rare time I worked late.
I said I was now in a better place career wise and suggested I could ask employers for a 4 day week. She is currently on a 4 day week, but says she won't be "allowed" to work less than 5 after November. I also suggested getting someone in once a week to help with housework. I've also suggested this before, but her general response is usually "sure we don't need that" or "do it if you want", it would be better if we could agree things together rather than individually.
A couple of weeks ago, a neighbour said to me (without me asking) that she could babysit for us to allow us go out, so even the neighbours can see it.
I told my wife of her kind offer but she said it wouldn't be fair on the neighbour (because she has a new grandchild which she minds part time).
It seems I'm putting forward solutions and at least communication has initiated to some extent.
Just wanted to let everyone know and thanks them for their input.
There's more I could write in this post, but I won't. Not because, like one poster suggested that I was holding something back, but it's just hard to get everything in, but I can elaborate again.

Neyite · 21-01-2015 11:15am

Non-defensive communication like that sounds like a good start Borinis. I like the way that you are looking at it as a whole, aiming to reconnect and build quality time and improve the work/life balance for you both. And while she seemed initally wary (well who isnt when their partner suggests a 'talk'?) she seemed to be happy to discuss it with you and look for positive solutions together.

A good evenings work and a good start.

Lovely Bloke · 21-01-2015 11:37am

Just on the assumption that he "left his wife to tend to the child, looked after his own needs".

Women get 6 months paid maternity leave in this country, men get nothing.

It makes sense that the woman is the one to get up for night feeds and whatever else, because the alternative is the man doing this, and putting his career at risk by turning up tired and doing sloppy work, standards slipping and stress because of that.

It may seem "unfair" that the mother has to do this, but in fairness, babies sleep during the day too, so can the mother.

My son was born 9 months ago, and my wife is in the lucky position that her job allows her to take the extra unpaid maternity leave and have her paid leave salary paid out over the duration.

We have an agreement that she does the night feeds Sunday-Thursday. Baby is exclusively breastfed anyway, so this usually extends into the weekends too, but the odd expressed bottle is available to me, and I absolutely love the opportunities I get to feed him, but it's just not practical to always have expressed milk to hand. I wake up fresh for work, do my good job and even got a nice raise last October due to my good work over the summer when my team size was reduced. I'd never have been able to put that effort in if I was up for a couple of hours every night, experiencing lack of sleep and what-have-you.

Yes, it's tough on my wife, and it upsets me to see her getting stressed when the baby won't settle, and I do try my best to help out, but at the end of the day, if the baby doesn't sleep from 2-4AM, he'll probably sleep from 10-12 instead, when I'm expected to be in work, my wife can catch up on sleep then.

Chemical Byrne · 21-01-2015 11:53am

^
With that outlook I wouldn't be surprised if you'll be posting a thread similar to the OP's in here a few years down the road.

omahaid · 21-01-2015 12:02pm

Chemical Byrne wrote: »

^
With that outlook I wouldn't be surprised if you'll be posting a thread similar to the OP's in here a few years down the road.

If you drive for a living or have some occupation that requires concentration at work then it is reckless turning up for work very tired. It makes perfect sense for the person on leave to do the majority (if not all) the night feeds during the working week.

macyard · 21-01-2015 12:06pm

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

Just on the assumption that he "left his wife to tend to the child, looked after his own needs".

Women get 6 months paid maternity leave in this country, men get nothing.

It makes sense that the woman is the one to get up for night feeds and whatever else, because the alternative is the man doing this, and putting his career at risk by turning up tired and doing sloppy work, standards slipping and stress because of that.

It may seem "unfair" that the mother has to do this, but in fairness, babies sleep during the day too, so can the mother.

My son was born 9 months ago, and my wife is in the lucky position that her job allows her to take the extra unpaid maternity leave and have her paid leave salary paid out over the duration.

We have an agreement that she does the night feeds Sunday-Thursday. Baby is exclusively breastfed anyway, so this usually extends into the weekends too, but the odd expressed bottle is available to me, and I absolutely love the opportunities I get to feed him, but it's just not practical to always have expressed milk to hand. I wake up fresh for work, do my good job and even got a nice raise last October due to my good work over the summer when my team size was reduced. I'd never have been able to put that effort in if I was up for a couple of hours every night, experiencing lack of sleep and what-have-you.

Yes, it's tough on my wife, and it upsets me to see her getting stressed when the baby won't settle, and I do try my best to help out, but at the end of the day, if the baby doesn't sleep from 2-4AM, he'll probably sleep from 10-12 instead, when I'm expected to be in work, my wife can catch up on sleep then.

this is fair during maternity leave but once she goes back to work you need to share the getting up during the night

Borinis_Socks · 21-01-2015 2:54pm

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

Just on the assumption that he "left his wife to tend to the child, looked after his own needs".

Women get 6 months paid maternity leave in this country, men get nothing.

It makes sense that the woman is the one to get up for night feeds and whatever else, because the alternative is the man doing this, and putting his career at risk by turning up tired and doing sloppy work, standards slipping and stress because of that.

It may seem "unfair" that the mother has to do this, but in fairness, babies sleep during the day too, so can the mother.

My son was born 9 months ago, and my wife is in the lucky position that her job allows her to take the extra unpaid maternity leave and have her paid leave salary paid out over the duration.

We have an agreement that she does the night feeds Sunday-Thursday. Baby is exclusively breastfed anyway, so this usually extends into the weekends too, but the odd expressed bottle is available to me, and I absolutely love the opportunities I get to feed him, but it's just not practical to always have expressed milk to hand. I wake up fresh for work, do my good job and even got a nice raise last October due to my good work over the summer when my team size was reduced. I'd never have been able to put that effort in if I was up for a couple of hours every night, experiencing lack of sleep and what-have-you.

Yes, it's tough on my wife, and it upsets me to see her getting stressed when the baby won't settle, and I do try my best to help out, but at the end of the day, if the baby doesn't sleep from 2-4AM, he'll probably sleep from 10-12 instead, when I'm expected to be in work, my wife can catch up on sleep then.

Yep this is a point which hasn't been brought up before.
My wife breastfed as well and yes I would have loved paternity leave, not necessarily when our daughter was born but when my wife went back to work.
I personally thank most of the posters here but a few have engaged in man-bashing. One poster said that most men should provide a pay check. While this may be true. I would like if people saw me as an individual and not a stereotype.

Leo12 · 21-01-2015 3:17pm

Ireland sadly lags so far behind in adequate maternity and paternity leave for new parents, I'm sure most men would love paternity leave but businesses are fighting it as they are trotting out the same excuses they used for maternity leave! Anyway that's another thread entirely but I just want to say well done, a good start. Does your wife have a social life without you? Does she go out with friends at all? Just trying to find out why she shot down your neighbour's babysitting offer

Chemical Byrne · 21-01-2015 3:42pm

Turning down opportunities to go out and socialise is concerning. Does she go out and mix at all outside of work?

She might be suffering from depression. That would also explain the lack of interest in sex.

tinkerbell · 21-01-2015 4:24pm

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

Just on the assumption that he "left his wife to tend to the child, looked after his own needs".

Women get 6 months paid maternity leave in this country, men get nothing.

It makes sense that the woman is the one to get up for night feeds and whatever else, because the alternative is the man doing this, and putting his career at risk by turning up tired and doing sloppy work, standards slipping and stress because of that.

It may seem "unfair" that the mother has to do this, but in fairness, babies sleep during the day too, so can the mother.

I wasn't gonna reply to this but I feel I need to for the sake of the OPs wife and a lot of new mothers.

Tis easy knowing you're not at home all day every day with the baby then. Maternity leave is not sitting on your ass all day lazing around, it's a fulltime job, 24/7.

Unless you work in an area such as driving for a living or other such job where tiredness is a risk, then there's no excuse not to help out some of the time. You don't breastfeed, you have no idea how exhausting it can be sometimes. It is an incredible and rewarding experience but it can zap your energy. And sometimes babies don't sleep much during the day, and even if they did well your wife has things to do such as eat, do laundry, etc. When's she gonna do all that if she's trying to catch up on her sleep? In fairness :rolleyes: Your wife would prob really appreciated it if once in a while you got up during the night to settle the baby / do nappy change and then she can breastfeed without having to get up out of bed. There's a big difference between getting 6 hours sleep uninterrupted vs 4 hours followed by a 2 hour nap later on, it is not equal and good quality sleep if it's interrupted.

It's gonna be a rude awakening for you when your wife goes back to work and you're getting half the sleep you're used to. How are your pressures at work gonna suddenly die down when your wife goes back to work? Unless you're in a completely different job which requires you to get 6+ uninterrupted hours of sleep then you could've helped out every once in a while during the working week.

Anyway, this is only somewhat relevant to the OP since their child is now 6, so I'm not gonna blab on further but OP, glad to hear you started communicating to your wife and are working back from Step 6 to Step 1 and not the other way 'round.

Borinis_Socks · 21-01-2015 4:42pm

Leo12 wrote: »

Ireland sadly lags so far behind in adequate maternity and paternity leave for new parents, I'm sure most men would love paternity leave but businesses are fighting it as they are trotting out the same excuses they used for maternity leave! Anyway that's another thread entirely but I just want to say well done, a good start. Does your wife have a social life without you? Does she go out with friends at all? Just trying to find out why she shot down your neighbour's babysitting offer

When you say social life, she does have a number of very close friends whom she phones and meets up with on rare occasions for a coffee. A lot of the time I've joked that she should charge them counselling fees. One friend might be ringing because the boyfriend broke up or else didn't meet over the Xmas.
Another friend might ring because she can't find a boyfriend.
In a sense my wife is very caring.
When we were going out I wouldn't say we ever had a mad social life, but we went to the movies and out to dinner to celebrate birthdays or valentines.
I've also noticed soon after our daughter was born that going to my folks or if there was a family (my side) occasion was always a big ask. At the start I put this down to our daughters health situation. I think my wife over cares (if that doesn't sound bad).
About a year after our daughter was born, a friend of mine had a wedding about 60 miles away. As luck would have it, my sister lived near the wedding and was only too willing to babysit.
So understandably I thought "great! A year on. Let us both go and enjoy ourselves." I think it's important to have little moments like this.
So we went to the church, then onto the reception. Then sitting down for the meal, my wife was thinking about our daughter and also didn't want to take advantage of sisters generosity. So we left and said our goodbyes to my friend.
I don't know. There are other examples, but I don't want to criticise because in a way she has a point, but I think more and more, I'm on the fringes looking in, eventhough I'm keen to make things work for everyone.

Borinis_Socks · 21-01-2015 4:50pm

Chemical Byrne wrote: »

Turning down opportunities to go out and socialise is concerning. Does she go out and mix at all outside of work?

She might be suffering from depression. That would also explain the lack of interest in sex.

Again she has close friends and I cover when she meets them for a coffee. Depression? I don't know. It can be hidden can't it? The thing is when our daughter is well, which is most of the year, we both get sufficient sleep, she is very health conscious and walks a lot. I wondered once is she getting enough in her diet, but again I don't know.
Her mum is a long time MS sufferer and she visits her on her week day off. There might be a lot of stuff that only counselling can get to the bottom of.

Chemical Byrne · 21-01-2015 4:57pm

OP I'm picking up a vibe that you resent the fact that your wife makes your daughter and her well being her priority in life. You have mentioned your dissatisfaction with her priorities on a few occasions on this thread. To be fair to her I would argue that the child is THE priority in any relationship or marriage. Everything else is secondary, even if very important.

Leo12 · 21-01-2015 5:09pm

Chemical Byrne wrote: »

OP I'm picking up a vibe that you resent the fact that your wife makes your daughter and her well being her priority in life. You have mentioned your dissatisfaction with her priorities on a few occasions on this thread. To be fair to her I would argue that the child is THE priority in any relationship or marriage. Everything else is secondary, even if very important.

Of course the child/ children should be priority but not to the detriment of the marriage ! I know another poster has mentioned this before and I don't want to sound rude or disrespectful in way or form but is it possible your wife is seeing someone else?

Dial Hard · 21-01-2015 6:11pm

Borinis_Socks wrote: »

One poster said that most men should provide a pay check. While this may be true. I would like if people saw me as an individual and not a stereotype.

Nobody said that, they said that all *some* men provide is a paycheck, which is feck all use to a new (or even not so new) mother who's tearing her hair out because her husband thinks he's exempt from domestic duties because he's at work all day.

Borinis_Socks · 21-01-2015 6:40pm

Leo12 wrote: »

Of course the child/ children should be priority but not to the detriment of the marriage ! I know another poster has mentioned this before and I don't want to sound rude or disrespectful in way or form but is it possible your wife is seeing someone else?

Exactly. Of course child is the main priority. My wife has said this and I agree but not to the detriment of all else surely.
I love my daughter so much and of course she is number 1.
No offence taken but my wife is not seeing someone else, unless it's online or telepathically which I doubt.

LegacyUser · 21-01-2015 7:20pm

Chemical Byrne wrote: »

OP I'm picking up a vibe that you resent the fact that your wife makes your daughter and her well being her priority in life. You have mentioned your dissatisfaction with her priorities on a few occasions on this thread. To be fair to her I would argue that the child is THE priority in any relationship or marriage. Everything else is secondary, even if very important.

Jeezus thats depressing, so basically when you have kids nothing else matters even if it is to the detriment of the marriage ! So for those parents who take a few hours out to spend time as a couple and leave their kid(s) with a babysitter must be terrible parents so! Its very clear the OPs daughter is a priority for him as well.

Op its been dragging on for four years, you need to broach the subject of counselling /couples therapy and if she won't go then I don't know what the future holds.

From what you describe your wife is very good at making excuses and coming up with reasons not to spend time with you alone or time as a couple and I guess you have to ask yourself why is that? Does she want out of the marriage?

It sounds like a really lonely relationship for both of you!

Leo12 · 21-01-2015 7:42pm

That's good you don't think your wife is seeing someone else...could you accompany your wife on her walks and maybe the neighbour could look after your child for an hour? This gives you time to talk to her out of the house and also gets her used to leaving your daughter for a small while (with a trusted adult of course)

USD Inflation Swap · 21-01-2015 10:02pm

OP tell her that if things continue as they are you will have to break up with her. Tell her you are miserable, you won't see out your remaining years being unhappy.

December2012 · 21-01-2015 10:29pm

Why do you have to jointly decide things like getting a cleaner?

If you want a cleaner - get a cleaner. She has put it back on you. So just sort it like its a little thing (which it is).

Some people are very wary of having other people mind their children, my husband is one of those types of people.

We only use family.

And ones we see all the time, not ones who live 60 miles away who wouldn't he familiar with our baby's routine. Don't be thinking about a babysitter - dates are not your problem.

Right now you appear to have problems interacting, so start of small.

And for this I recommebd board games! Why? Because a board game like chess or risk or monopoly is a way, for both of you to do something together and be in each others company, talk to each other in an easy going way about something that doesn't matter.

You need more intimacy. Yes you could benefit from Big Talks and couples therapy too, but you also need some reconnecting fun.

Don't put pressure on yourselves - if you talk about your daughter? Fine. work?
Fine. No rules - just have some fun.

Borinis_Socks · 21-01-2015 11:29pm

Leo12 wrote: »

That's good you don't think your wife is seeing someone else...could you accompany your wife on her walks and maybe the neighbour could look after your child for an hour? This gives you time to talk to her out of the house and also gets her used to leaving your daughter for a small while (with a trusted adult of course)

I wouldn't dare suggest going on a walk with my wife. I mean that in the best possible sense. That's her "oasis of calm" during the day and she is a lot faster on foot than me,
While she's out I do the homework with daughter. think it works well.
Anyway, she briefly mentioned that she might ask the childminder about a babysitter. Finding a trusted babysitter is a challenge in itself but for the moment I'm glad she even mentioned it.
It's like a small win. Rome wasn't built in a day.

Borinis_Socks · 21-01-2015 11:36pm

December2012 wrote: »

Why do you have to jointly decide things like getting a cleaner?

If you want a cleaner - get a cleaner. She has put it back on you. So just sort it like its a little thing (which it is).

Some people are very wary of having other people mind their children, my husband is one of those types of people.

We only use family.

And ones we see all the time, not ones who live 60 miles away who wouldn't he familiar with our baby's routine. Don't be thinking about a babysitter - dates are not your problem.

Right now you appear to have problems interacting, so start of small.

And for this I recommebd board games! Why? Because a board game like chess or risk or monopoly is a way, for both of you to do something together and be in each others company, talk to each other in an easy going way about something that doesn't matter.

You need more intimacy. Yes you could benefit from Big Talks and couples therapy too, but you also need some reconnecting fun.

Don't put pressure on yourselves - if you talk about your daughter? Fine. work?
Fine. No rules - just have some fun.

Yeah. Some good points. I'll bear them in mind. I think our life would have been easier if we were surrounded by family. Certainly the occasional babysitting by a family member. But I don't want to paint a bleak picture, it hasn't all been bad. It's all pros and cons. It's life I suppose.

Tigger99 · 21-01-2015 11:38pm

You might be better taking out your daughters name, in case it identifies you

I'm glad things are looking more positive.

December2012 · 21-01-2015 11:45pm

Borinis_Socks wrote: »

Anyway, she briefly mentioned that she might ask the childminder about a babysitter.

That is brilliant. She wants time with you too.

Yknow she might be lonely as well.

You can find each other again.

CaliforniaDream · 22-01-2015 7:25am

Borinis_Socks wrote: »

At what point did I say that all I provided for my wife and child was a paycheck?

It was implied by you that you didn't contribute much to the housework or childminding when your child was a baby. I can only go on what you said so don't get irritated when people reply to what information you've given.

Borinis_Socks wrote: »

I personally thank most of the posters here but a few have engaged in man-bashing. One poster said that most men should provide a pay check. While this may be true. I would like if people saw me as an individual and not a stereotype.

I haven't seen that in this thread at all. But if you have a tendency to misread situations and conversations then that maybe where you're having trouble with your wife.
It's great that you've opened communication with your wife. It might be a simple solution once you start talking more, but if it's not realise that you married each other for a reason and hopefully enough of that is still there to carry you through. Remember it's rarely one person that causes problems in a relationship and your wife has to answer for the things she has done wrong too.
If it's a long road then hopefully it's one you're both committed to staying on together.

Borinis_Socks · 22-01-2015 9:35am

Tigger99 wrote: »

You might be better taking out your daughters name, in case it identifies you

I'm glad things are looking more positive.

Thanks. I've edited the post eventhough that wasn't my daughters first name.

Yeah things are looking a bit more positive, but I've noticed it can be 2 steps forward 1 step back.
Eg this morning wife and daughter and I as usual were trying to get out door at 7.45. Wife drops daughter off at minder on way to work. However daughter was stalling a little and I was trying to coax her along by saying how important a healthy brekkie was etc. I was also coaxing her to take her antibiotic which she doesn't like the taste of. This seemed to be going nicely and then my wife said "as long as you get your train, that's all that matters".
I said we'll talk later, but that comment disappointed me because ....
1. I'm genuinely helping
2. Comment is not constructive
3. It's a unfair comment, as we all have to get to work to get this holy grail of the much maligned pay check that everyone has mentioned here.
4. I've told her before we have to be united in front of our daughter and we can discuss any issues later. It's not good for daughter to hear this.
I feel sometimes it's like walking on eggshells.
Am I being over-sensitive or is this just normal for a young family trying to get out the door in the morning.
If it was a one off then fine but I think if I kept a diary of all this it might add to something else, particularly when I'm just trying to help.
One poster suggested I may have a tendency to misread situations, which I suppose we all are. An I misreading this one? It could be just another straw on the camel's back.

Tigger99 · 22-01-2015 10:27am

It could have been a dig or she could have been genuinely concerned that you got your train.

If it is a dig I suspect it's partly out of surprise that perhaps you are being more proactive.

Maybe let it go and just keep doing what you are doing.

Neyite · 22-01-2015 11:12am

I'm inclined to think it was genuine. If you are going to start logging remarks like this, I think it will set you back in any progress you want to make. Thats the kind of thing we do with a bully at work, not something we do with our spouse. By keeping a diary, you are only focusing on the nitpicking, not the big picture and that will never go in your favour.

Work from the assumption that remarks are made in kindness, with your best interests at heart. If its genuine, it shows caring. If it was a dig, then by letting it sail over your head means that you wont stoop to her level or rise to a bait to have an argument. Because if you do, you argue about silly stuff, and don't get to discuss the real stuff that can repair a relationship.

marizpan · 22-01-2015 12:16pm

Just some perspective of mornings in our house.

With three small kids to get up and out and hubby's very long showers, our mornings can be stressful. Hubby gets up early to earn his long showers, which is great but the morning are super stressful.
If any of the kids gets in a bad mood and therefore refuses to get dressed/put on a coat or even eat a breakfast, it is very stressful and causes us to be late.
Tempers can get hot as we panic to get out on time between my husband and I.

But we always ring each other during our commute, after he drops off kids and chat. We never take personal offence to any ill tempers in the morning. Otherwise we'd be divorced :-)
I hate mornings

strandroad · 22-01-2015 12:43pm

Borinis_Socks wrote: »

I've been fully engaged and hands-on during waking hours. Shopping, baby-sitting while wife has met friends etc. etc.

It's not "babysitting" if it's your own child, especially if your wife is only out on rare occasions, as you say elsewhere! It seems that you dropped your wife right into it and checked out when the child was born so they formed a family on their own, but she resents you for it and you resent her for resenting you.

Couple's therapy is where you should be heading if it can be salvaged at all, so many bad habits and assumptions to untangle...

macyard · 22-01-2015 12:51pm

mhge wrote: »

It's not "babysitting" if it's your own child, especially if your wife is only out on rare occasions, as you say elsewhere! It seems that you dropped your wife right into it and checked out when the child was born so they formed a family on their own, but she resents you for it and you resent her for resenting you.

Couple's therapy is where you should be heading if it can be salvaged at all, so many bad habits and assumptions to untangle...

It's doesn't sound like he gets any out time, OP you got any friends arrange to meet them and go out have some fun, it sounds like you never get out go out withouth the wife have fun it will take the cooped up strain off the marriage.

O

Chemical Byrne · 22-01-2015 12:53pm

Well OP you are making a good start but in trying to communicate with her but I would warn that you should not take the stance that you hold her responsible for the deterioration in the marriage. I mean, you wrote earlier that you asked her did she understand why you worked late and that you did it for her and yere child. To me that comes across as transferring blame and it gives the impression that she should be grateful for your working and being absent. I think you need to reconsider how you approach these discussions.

Anyway hopefully it can be salvaged, if that's what BOTH of ye want. Hope for the best but prepare for the worst. What will the course of action be if it turns out that the relationship between you cannot be mended, what will you do? Will you stay in a loveless marriage devoid of intimacy for the sake of your child not growing up in a broken home or will you two split up? If you do split up think about how you will divide up caring for your daughter. In this case you should make a point of doing as much of the care as you can as any indication that you leaving it to your wife or shirking will be seen as justification on her part.

You have trying times ahead.

USD Inflation Swap · 22-01-2015 7:12pm

I don't think it will work out well OP, by the sounds of it she nether respects nor fancies you. Therefore she doesn't want sex with you. You need to break up.

Chemical Byrne · 22-01-2015 7:37pm

USD Inflation Swap wrote: »

I don't think it will work out well OP, by the sounds of it she nether respects nor fancies you. Therefore she doesn't want sex with you. You need to break up.

I'd be inclined to agree with you unfortunately. All her responses to date have either been sly remarks or just ignoring him. It doesn't bode well. She has no enthusiasm by the looks of it.

I think he should just dispense with the tactical conversations, sit her down and just straight up ask if she is comfortable in the the marriage/relationship and does she want to continue in it. Any hesitation, hums or hahs on her part basically means no.

OP you should probably talk to a good family law solicitor before you do anything more.
Just in terms of preparing for the worst it would be a good idea to get your affairs in order first so as to get the jump on her in the event that a divorce is the outcome.

LegacyUser · 22-01-2015 8:01pm

OP, I'm sorry to say this, but your marriage is kinda dead. Your wife doesn't really like you. The sardonic responses, the reluctance to spend time with you.....she's just not that into you.

At no point do you talk about how the two of you interact. There doesn't seem to be any craic or banter. She loves her friends and gives them loads of emotional time. But not you. It makes you wonder.

My wife would describe me as one of her best friends. Would your wife say the same?

I heard somewhere that when the banter stops in a marriage, its game over. Cos banter is basically private jokes, and those are what make a couple unique and bonded.

I do think that you have a lot of resentment towards her attitude. There is a whiff in all your posts of a feeling that she's being bloody ungrateful. I wonder if you even like her too. You seem to be wanting to adress this now because you've just copped that you're on the periphery. Not because you really love the bones of her and miss her like mad.

Leo12 · 22-01-2015 8:35pm

In what tone did your wife say to catch your train? I think she might have said it in a non-malicious way. And mornings are incredibly stressful in the house urgh I used to hate them when we were all rushing out the door. No matter how well you sorted everything out the night before something always happens. Further to other posters it is early days and don't give up on your marriage!! Ignore talk of going to see a solicitor and giving up on your marriage. What is wrong with people these days, a four year old problem won't be solved in 4 days ! Keep doing what you are doing and only if EVERY avenue has been gone down should you think about splitting up. Bottom line, your wife needs to talk to you and not to brush things aside. You AND her need to be friends again and have a laugh together... board games are a great idea! Best of luck.

FatherTed · 22-01-2015 9:41pm

Listen OP, Valentines Day is coming up and lucky for all of us it's on a Saturday. You need to plan a nice weekend and you have a few weeks to plan it now. You need to do all the planning. You need to talk to your inlaw's/whoever to take care of your daughter for the weekend. You need to book a nice hotel and some other fun activities whether it's dinner or a nice hike or even just visiting some other town for a change of scenery. But you need to stress to her that YOU are taking care of all of this and she does not need to worry about your daughter or anything else. You should keep the planned activities a surprise other than to tell her to leave the weekend open, your daughter will be taken care of and she just needs a nice weekend with her hubby. She won't/shouldn't have any other plans because we all know it's a couples-only weekend.

Now if she cannot let herself go and trust you to do this and not reciprocate in any kind of romantic way then well... there isn't much else to say really.

strandroad · 22-01-2015 9:43pm

FatherTed wrote: »

Now if she cannot let herself go and trust you to do this and not reciprocate in any kind of romantic way then well... there isn't much else to say really.

This is very naive. There's several years worth of resentment in her head, you won't disperse it with a flourish. It will be condoms in the suitcase type of situation again.

December2012 · 22-01-2015 11:14pm

USD Inflation Swap wrote: »

I don't think it will work out well OP, by the sounds of it she nether respects nor fancies you. Therefore she doesn't want sex with you. You need to break up.

I disagree completely with this - it's a complete over reaction.

look OP you can't wave a magic wand and everything will be perfect. I love my husband so much, he loves me, we have a great marraige. Morning times can get a bit snippy with us. Mornings ARE difficult. Deadlines make them difficult.

Here's the things your family did this morning:-
You had to get ready for work by a deadline.
You had to get to the train station by a deadline
You had to get to work by a deadline
Your wife had to get ready by a deadline
She had to et to the childminder before a deadline
She had to get to work by a deadline
You were trying to get your daughter ready, by a deadline
Trying to get her breakfast into her, by a deadline
Trying to get her to take her antibiotics, yes..... By a deadline.

That is a lot of stuff going on there, and it's easy fir something said kindly to be misheard, and it's easy for something to be said sharply.

Just let it go.

It's not a big deal at all.

Borinis_Socks · 23-01-2015 9:34am

December2012 wrote: »

I disagree completely with this - it's a complete over reaction.

look OP you can't wave a magic wand and everything will be perfect. I love my husband so much, he loves me, we have a great marraige. Morning times can get a bit snippy with us. Mornings ARE difficult. Deadlines make them difficult.

Here's the things your family did this morning:-
You had to get ready for work by a deadline.
You had to get to the train station by a deadline
You had to get to work by a deadline
Your wife had to get ready by a deadline
She had to et to the childminder before a deadline
She had to get to work by a deadline
You were trying to get your daughter ready, by a deadline
Trying to get her breakfast into her, by a deadline
Trying to get her to take her antibiotics, yes..... By a deadline.

That is a lot of stuff going on there, and it's easy fir something said kindly to be misheard, and it's easy for something to be said sharply.

Just let it go.

It's not a big deal at all.

Whoa. Just logged in now and found loads of replies. Thanks.
Was in a good head space but was surprised with some of the posts about divorce and relieved to see other one's.
Looking at this from the inside, I think it's baby steps for me and my wife to get back to where we were. It won't be a Big Bang approach.
Just one thing I'd like to clarify. I was far from absent in my daughter's upbringing. I only said because I worked late on rare occasions that I needed at least 6 hours sleep. Also I'm mildly epileptic. During waking hours I was not absent and was much more than a paycheck. I think in this country it must be galling for any loving dad to not be allowed paternity leave and also to have these stereotypes applied to them.

MouseTail · 23-01-2015 9:56am

It was you OP who laid the blame for the deteriorating marriage at the foot of your physical if not emotional absence in the post birth months, other posters are just responding to that. If it wasn't that, where does her resentment come from? It is going to take a lot of work on both sides to get this marriage back on track. You come across as very defensive in your posts, I'm wondering if this is a pattern in your marriage. I agree about the cleaner, you have discussed it together, she has agreed, just organise it, what are you waiting for?

Chemical Byrne · 23-01-2015 10:05am

Leo12 wrote: »

.............. Further to other posters it is early days and don't give up on your marriage!! Ignore talk of going to see a solicitor and giving up on your marriage. What is wrong with people these days, a four year old problem won't be solved in 4 days ! ..................

I think there is always the potential to salvage the relationship. All I'm saying is that he should be prepared in the event that it will not work out as hoped.
Thus it is no harm and very wise to discuss things with a solicitor beforehand just in case.

macyard · 23-01-2015 12:23pm

MouseTail wrote: »

It was you OP who laid the blame for the deteriorating marriage at the foot of your physical if not emotional absence in the post birth months, other posters are just responding to that. If it wasn't that, where does her resentment come from? It is going to take a lot of work on both sides to get this marriage back on track. You come across as very defensive in your posts, I'm wondering if this is a pattern in your marriage. I agree about the cleaner, you have discussed it together, she has agreed, just organise it, what are you waiting for?

I don't think he is Irish so he had trouble getting some finer points across but from clarifying in later posts it doesn't seem he was absent during the birth months.

Is you wife Irish and you not op, this sounds like a clash of culture in most posts

Borinis_Socks · 23-01-2015 3:17pm

macyard wrote: »

I don't think he is Irish so he had trouble getting some finer points across but from clarifying in later posts it doesn't seem he was absent during the birth months.

Is you wife Irish and you not op, this sounds like a clash of culture in most posts

All of us are irish. I don't recall anywhere saying I was absent during the birth months except at night for a short period of stress at work.
Look I've got some great advice on hear and thanks for that.
For the moment I'll play this by ear and see where it takes us.
It's difficult for anyone to convey an exact picture of a relationship over a series of posts so it's only natural there are assumptions being made by posters.
I suppose everyone has their own baggage which shapes their advice.

macyard · 23-01-2015 3:21pm

Borinis_Socks wrote: »

All of us are irish. I don't recall anywhere saying I was absent during the birth months except at night for a short period of stress at work.
Look I've got some great advice on hear and thanks for that.
For the moment I'll play this by ear and see where it takes us.
It's difficult for anyone to convey an exact picture of a relationship over a series of posts so it's only natural there are assumptions being made by posters.
I suppose everyone has their own baggage which shapes their advice.

Sorry you weren't so clear at the start and I though it was a language barrier as I sometimes do the same but English is my second language

Borinis_Socks · 26-01-2015 9:37am

macyard wrote: »

Sorry you weren't so clear at the start and I though it was a language barrier as I sometimes do the same but English is my second language

What a weekend. Everything seemed to be going fine. Child was invited to a party, went and had a good time. Yesterday morning had a chat with 5.5 year old and promised to get great present for upcoming birthday. Also asked for a few things in return like homework, no screaming, no hitting, get used to sleeping on their own and other stuff. A deal was made. Happy days. Had a few jokes and a laugh and all was well.
Wife and child went away for few hours. I done some spring cleaning, lit the fire, done the dusting, hung out the clothes, brought in the clothes, went to the shop and got a long awaited haircut.
Wife and child came back, cooked the dinner, everything still ticking along nicely. Then I was sitting eating my dinner, child started staring into my plate, half playing, but was eventually crossing the line, so I reminded the child of the deal we made. Wife said "you don't need to keep saying it". "I reminded her we need to united on these things and if she wouldn't mind backing me up.". This has been a problem for years. No solidarity between us.
Then in the sitting room, was watching something, child wanted to watch something and I said yes in a few minutes. Again, wife started "what is that anyway, sure maybe you can turn it". Missing the point of course. Again, thus sort of stuff has been going on for years. Now the child is spoilt.
So, left and went to the kitchen, calmly. Bizarrely, now, rather than watching the telly, I was followed out to the kitchen.
I'll stop now and call it Part 1, my hand is tired from the typing, the rest of the evening was a real eye opener. I'll type this later.
Let me emphasize, the chores and jobs in the house that I've mentioned above are nothing new, nor is the lack of solidarity in disciplining our child, nor is the lack if respect of everyone getting their tv time slice ( without an argument at least).

Future for my wife and I

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