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S506 - Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken - Have Read the Books

2

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,397 ✭✭✭✭Turtyturd


    I thought Lancel would be the obvious one to bring Cersei down.

    Am more wondering how Margery proves her innocence if the high sparrow was there for her crime.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 440 ✭✭3qsmavrod5twfe


    Nody wrote: »
    Only question for me is if they'll end the series with her walking back naked or not to the castle and if / whom will be the people she's accused to have had sex with outside of marriage.


    Pretty straightforward really, they had her have relations with Brother Lancel back when he was still plain old Lancel Lannister when Jamie was rotting in a cell in the Riverlands. I think given the screen time he has been given in a role which could easily have been fulfilled by anyone of the High Sparrow's random henchmen, he has to be there for a reason and I think it is a vehicle for the walk of shame. None more holy than one of the Faith Militant or the Most Devout or whatever moniker they are going by.


    Personally I think there will have to be some sort of resolution at the wall, they seem to be setting it up for Jon vs. The Watch and the roads that that will lead down..."For the Watch"


    Whatever else about Dorne, I just can't past the freaking elf shoes...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,057 ✭✭✭Daith


    Turtyturd wrote: »
    I thought Lancel would be the obvious one to bring Cersei down.

    Am more wondering how Margery proves her innocence if the high sparrow was there for her crime.

    In the books she isn't innocent though? She still has to go to trial?


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 18,334 CMod ✭✭✭✭Nody


    Pretty straightforward really, they had her have relations with Brother Lancel back when he was still plain old Lancel Lannister when Jamie was rotting in a cell in the Riverlands. I think given the screen time he has been given in a role which could easily have been fulfilled by anyone of the High Sparrow's random henchmen, he has to be there for a reason and I think it is a vehicle for the walk of shame. None more holy than one of the Faith Militant or the Most Devout or whatever moniker they are going by.
    The problem is he's already confronted Cersei about it and joined them yet he has not confessed about it? It simply does not add up to me that's all; hence why I'm wondering if there's someone else instead.
    Daith wrote: »
    In the books she isn't innocent though? She still has to go to trial?
    In the book Blackkettle was claiming he had sex with her and this is why she was not a virgin; between that character is not in the series and she's already had her wedding night that's a no go as a story arc and they appear to want to go with the "lying to to a representative of the seven" instead as the justification.


  • Registered Users Posts: 88 ✭✭Pat_custard


    Would have much preferred if they had scraped the Dorne story line altogether!

    Instead have the Greyjoy story line and Jaime resolve the feud in the river run.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 18,334 CMod ✭✭✭✭Nody


    Also am I the only one expecting Highgarden to pay the church in food (depleting their stocks for the winter months as the food will be handed out to the poor leading into a starving arc in the seasons to come when the winter really hits) for the release of their people who are imprisoned? Cersei I'd expect to be released with the promise of King Weaksauce to be tutored by the church or similar and a promise not to have sex until married or similar.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,096 ✭✭✭Jofspring


    So as it stands do people feel since they have deviated from the books that they are making a balls of it?

    Weaker writing, weaker actors, weaker production value.

    Has a lot of what's been great about it been that they have followed the storylines from great books but now when they are going their own way they are doing a poorer job or are people happy with it so far?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    hstlefay wrote: »
    IHow did the rape really further the plot? We already hated Ramsey! .

    The pedant in me has to point out that what Ramsey did would not be considered rape at all in Westeros

    Weirdly, it wasn't rape in Ireland until the 1980s

    Anyway I've stopped caring, dodgy acting, dodgy script, silly fight scenes.

    The books fell off a cliff quality wise around this point too


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,228 ✭✭✭podgemonster


    hstlefay wrote: »

    Why bother letting her escape Joff/Kings Landing only to have this happen to her anyway?

    How did the rape really further the plot?

    This was established in Episode 3 this season. Littlefinger and Sansa stop at Moat Cailin and he informs her of the proposed marriage. Sansa is initially disgusted as she knows this means dealing with things that will happen like her bedding. But following the promise of revenge she finds courage and rides to Winterfell.

    What threw Sansa was Ramsay making Reek watch, previous to that she isn't as traumatized. Another poster highlighted how she rattled Myranda but following Myrandas exit, Sansa appears quite rattled by the exchange.

    Her rape was inevitable once she left Moat Cailin, yet she rode. The removal of her wedding gown has similar imagery to an angel losing her wings. Season 1-3 Sansa would have ran, but she rides for vengance for her murdered Brother and her murdered Mother...............and Winter IS Coming.
    My skin has turned to porcelain, to ivory, to steel.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 291 ✭✭granty1987


    That Dorne fight scene was straight out of Xena, good shout.

    All I could think about while watching the Sandsnakes / Jamie & Bronn / Hotah & co fight was the battle scene from Anchorman with the different news teams.. bar the lad going around with a grenade... awful stuff, but it did make me laugh

    fight.jpg


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,255 ✭✭✭tommy2bad


    Jofspring wrote: »
    So as it stands do people feel since they have deviated from the books that they are making a balls of it?

    Weaker writing, weaker actors, weaker production value.

    Has a lot of what's been great about it been that they have followed the storylines from great books but now when they are going their own way they are doing a poorer job or are people happy with it so far?

    It's certainly gotten lazy!
    Sansa repeating Dani's story line wedding wise ( given away by brother, crude brutish husband, raped on wedding night,) what odds she will end up running the place?
    As to Dorn! Might as well have skipped it completely, if it weren't for Marcella being their I think they would have. Which leads to poor old Bran and why they have abandoned what small story he has left.
    Theirs no sense of the chaos and scramble for power in the wake of TywinsTywins death that the books have, this feels more preordered.

    On the other hand Triyion is still an interesting character, his story moves along more naturally than in the books. Dannie is in a holding position at this stage in the books but seems to be progressing in the tv show.

    I think we can take it that we will get two different endings in the books and show, if we ever get an ending to the books, maybe that's not a bad thing, I couldn't wait for the last season of GoT as long as I've waited for the last book.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,141 ✭✭✭Yakuza


    A small point, but it has been bugging me. Isn't Sansa still technically married to Tyrion, or does Kinslaying invalidate any such bonds?. Perhaps because the marriage was never consummated, then it was possible to set it aside? They made a whole song and dance about setting aside her betrothal to Joffrey, yet her marrying (again) didn't rate a mention (that I noticed at any rate; I tend to watch it late at night!).

    Or is it just another plot hole that has been left lying around?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,057 ✭✭✭Daith


    Yakuza wrote: »
    A small point, but it has been bugging me. Isn't Sansa still technically married to Tyrion, or does Kinslaying invalidate any such bonds?. Perhaps because the marriage was never consummated, then it was possible to set it aside? They made a whole song and dance about setting aside her betrothal to Joffrey, yet her marrying (again) didn't rate a mention (that I noticed at any rate; I tend to watch it late at night!).

    Or is it just another plot hole that has been left lying around?

    It should be the consummation invalidating it


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 18,334 CMod ✭✭✭✭Nody


    Yakuza wrote: »
    A small point, but it has been bugging me. Isn't Sansa still technically married to Tyrion, or does Kinslaying invalidate any such bonds?. Perhaps because the marriage was never consummated, then it was possible to set it aside? They made a whole song and dance about setting aside her betrothal to Joffrey, yet her marrying (again) didn't rate a mention (that I noticed at any rate; I tend to watch it late at night!).

    Or is it just another plot hole that has been left lying around?
    Basically until consummated the marriage contract is not valid (Remember the comment after Sansa's wedding night from Tywin about just **** her once and then let her grow older before impregnating her to Tyvin to make sure the marriage was completed and sealed); this is why there were such a big thing about Margaery still being a virgin after her marriage to Renly Baratheon so that she could successfully wed Joffrey and then Tommen accordingly.

    Also the only reason I can see behind this Dorne story arc is remind people they still exist for their upcoming uprising (only question is with whom they are going to raise the banners with) because they have cut out so much else (the experimentation of the Mountain and his rise to death knight, the King's Guard who was suppose to guard the princess, the lover he takes and the betrayal he needs to decide on etc.).


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,508 ✭✭✭✭ArmaniJeanss


    GRRM tortures himself to make sure every line of the books is consistent and correct in terms of plot, timeline, geography, characters traits, motivations and established knowledge.
    TV writers just casually take an axe to all that - if for plot reasons someone needs to have a sudden and unexplained total character shift then so be it. Need an action sequence - shove it in no matter how inconsistent it makes the overall story, sure we can just ignore it down the line.

    Theres a happy medium somewhere, but I think its towards the GRRM way more than the TV way, and I'm kind of content now that he is taking his time writing the books.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,141 ✭✭✭Yakuza


    Cheers folks. I wish Tommen had shown some balls and had the High Sparrow and his followers filleted (we are departing from the books, after all!). I really can't wait for Cersei's comeuppance. It's been almost five seaons in the making!


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,793 ✭✭✭FunLover18


    Jofspring wrote: »
    Ya Dorne is terrible and i did enjoy it in the books. Mainly because we see Dorans over all plan. That doesn't seem to be happening in the TV show so that has made all this pretty pointless so far.

    Doran's plan in the books though revolved around Quentyn wooing Dany, and his daughter marrying Aegon. Of those characters Dany is the only one still in the show so I really don't see why they bothered with Dorne.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,618 ✭✭✭Mr Freeze


    FunLover18 wrote: »
    Doran's plan in the books though revolved around Quentyn wooing Dany, and his daughter marrying Aegon. Of those characters Dany is the only one still in the show so I really don't see why they bothered with Dorne.

    Unless they do the twist that Tyrstane is Aegon.

    Or they have plan to marry Tyrstane to Dany somehow, no ground work whatsover has been layed for this.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 18,334 CMod ✭✭✭✭Nody


    FunLover18 wrote: »
    Doran's plan in the books though revolved around Quentyn wooing Dany, and his daughter marrying Aegon. Of those characters Dany is the only one still in the show so I really don't see why they bothered with Dorne.
    The only reason is because Dorne obviously has to do something important down the line; if not there's no reason to keep on running with them and the only thing I can see is for them to raise their army to go raiding (but on whom and for what reason is tbc).


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,776 ✭✭✭Noopti


    I'm still holding out hope that Lady Stoneheart makes an appearance, as a "WTF!?!" moment - which I think this season needs.

    Or that they manage to get Victarion and Euron into things, seeing as they have ignored the Greyjoys now for a long while.

    These are storylines/characters which could liven things up a bit. Probably won't happen at all....but just imagine if Stoneheart does appear......


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,704 ✭✭✭✭duploelabs


    I wouldn't hold your breath, I remember reading at the end of series4 that Lady Stoneheart has been totally cut


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 440 ✭✭3qsmavrod5twfe


    Nody wrote: »
    The problem is he's already confronted Cersei about it and joined them yet he has not confessed about it? It simply does not add up to me that's all; hence why I'm wondering if there's someone else instead.



    I'm working on the assumption that the High Sparrow isn't as single-minded as he is been given credit for. Like everyone else he is probably playing the long game. It doesn't achieve anything for him or the faith at the moment as their power only extends from a royal decree. Everything thus far is happening behind closed doors where Cersei would feel safer. She can hide behind the White Cloaks while accusations are thrown, sick the boys on the faith militant and at the same time issue another decree declaring the Faith Militant an illegal organization due to some trumped up story of heavy handedness with the king. I would imagine there will be some way she or Lancel will be put on the stand in a public hearing and at that point the accusation will be made and evidence presented - it will be all in the open and she will be in less of a position to renounce anything related to the Faith Militant so it will be a much safer position for the High Sparrow.


    Maybe I'm way off here, but the circumstances in the book are different enough to need a different vehicle for Cersei's conviction. IIRC one of the Kettleblacks admitted to carnal relations out of wedlock with Cersei when he was being questioned in relation to the Margaery allegations, and then Lancel corroborated this which was the basis for her detention/trial. Also in the show there was no concession given by the faith to regain the faith militant whereas in the books they cancelled the royal debt in payment for reinstating it. I think this gave the faith a far stronger position in the books that they don't have in the show and therefore need to be sure of allegations sticking as they don't have the royal debt to hang over the Iron Throne.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    Noopti wrote: »
    I'm still holding out hope that Lady Stoneheart makes an appearance, as a "WTF!?!" moment - which I think this season needs.

    Or that they manage to get Victarion and Euron into things, seeing as they have ignored the Greyjoys now for a long while.

    These are storylines/characters which could liven things up a bit. Probably won't happen at all....but just imagine if Stoneheart does appear......

    at this stage the non buke people will just go "who's she again?" its been that long since the character made an appearance


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,338 ✭✭✭✭Liam O


    I reckon Kevan and Pycelle bite the dust at the end of this season. Lancel is a mcguffin to get Kevan back by the end of the season.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,300 ✭✭✭✭razorblunt


    The "Xena Warrior Princess" comments really hits the nail on the head for me.
    It also created the cardinal sin of sword fights ... have someone holding a sword punch someone in the face instead of slashing or stabbing (Bronn punched one of the SS when she was falling backwards).


  • Registered Users Posts: 408 ✭✭PIORUN


    MrWalsh wrote: »
    How did Tyrion know about Lord Commander Mormont?
    Jon Snow was tweeting about it.#FML #LMFAO


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 4,664 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hyzepher


    The Greyjoys must be dropped at this stage. Tyrion is too close to Meereen for them just to appear in that plotline.

    Having them involved in the Bolton storyline might work but it means having no battle at the end of this series as they'd need a fair few episodes to introduce new characters. Unless they are just going to have Yara play everyone


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,000 ✭✭✭Stone Deaf 4evr


    I love the show and the books for the most part, the gripe I'd have is that the show should tighten up the central cast, The Ironborn and their whole election process furthers nothing in the book, it just gives another blast of names to keep track of. It should be cut completely IMO, Same goes for Dorne. I'm glad they didnt go down the tyrion line of the female dwarf!, If i remember the books correctly, Bron is never again heard from after the death of Tywin, so the whole trip to Dorne thing is just to keep a popular character on screen a bit longer.

    If I was to rate the different regions of the land out of 10, it'd be as follows

    The wall - 10/10 - close to the books, and no unneeded subplots
    Kings landing 9/10 - pretty close to the books, but stuff like the mountain and that creepy maester have all but been forgotten about - i like the handling of the sparrows.
    Bravos - 9/10 - sticking close to the books, looking forward to seeing where it goes from here.
    Winterfell - 8/10 -Ramsay is closing in on Joffrey as the TV character I'd most like to punch, Tying Sansa in here is probably best for tightening up the story
    North of the Wall - 6/10 - I didn't like Brans story in the book, and nothing has changed here.
    Volantis / wherever Dany is 4/10 - Still reflecting that one of the most interesting storylines in the book became one of the most boring. It really needs to kick up a gear and stop wasting time with things like Grey worms love life.
    Dorne - 2/10. No. Just, no. cut it all and put the budget elsewhere.
    The Riverlands -n/a All but forgotten about, Also, I can't understand the excitement for stoneheart, she barely figured in the books, and makes no sense to have a minor involvement, same goes for Beric Dondarrion.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 18,334 CMod ✭✭✭✭Nody


    excitement for stoneheart, she barely figured in the books, and makes no sense to have a minor involvement, same goes for Beric Dondarrion.
    Because she's due to come back in the next book and there are some major characters who's life depends on it. There are also some very scary similarities to the whites in terms of the resurrections, the whole band feeling gloomy etc. hinting at that there's something not quite right with the whole Light Lord's power as it's been made out to be the fire branch in the night which may turn out that he's actually not the good guy after all (who requires his followers to clench his sword in his wife's heart?!).


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,338 ✭✭✭✭Liam O


    The problem is that in the books you get the feel of concurrent storylines without actually needing a POV to tell us what's happening. There's dots that can be connected to have an idea of what is going on without being explicitly told. The show doesn't have that luxury and is handling it badly imo. Introducing characters and forgetting about them because they are inconvenient stinks of bad planning which is certainly something that is hard to criticise the books for. Bad adaptation of other characters changing nature episode to episode and season to season to make it convenient rather than have a plan for the character is getting to criminal levels.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,000 ✭✭✭Stone Deaf 4evr


    Nody wrote: »
    Because she's due to come back in the next book and there are some major characters who's life depends on it. There are also some very scary similarities to the whites in terms of the resurrections, the whole band feeling gloomy etc. hinting at that there's something not quite right with the whole Light Lord's power as it's been made out to be the fire branch in the night which may turn out that he's actually not the good guy after all (who requires his followers to clench his sword in his wife's heart?!).

    As I understand it GRRM has outlined how it all ends to the Showrunners. If thats the case, theres simply no good reason to let a major character like that remain offscreen for 2 whole seasons, only to drop them back in like a magical macguffin to tie up all the loose ends.

    There are areas where the TV show really shines - Roose Bolton really gets his due on the show in comparison to the books - as is Stannis Baratheon, But the Onion knight is getting short changed.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,000 ✭✭✭Stone Deaf 4evr


    Liam O wrote: »
    The problem is that in the books you get the feel of concurrent storylines without actually needing a POV to tell us what's happening. There's dots that can be connected to have an idea of what is going on without being explicitly told. The show doesn't have that luxury and is handling it badly imo. Introducing characters and forgetting about them because they are inconvenient stinks of bad planning which is certainly something that is hard to criticise the books for. Bad adaptation of other characters changing nature episode to episode and season to season to make it convenient rather than have a plan for the character is getting to criminal levels.

    Exactly this. at times it feels like a test screening - The viper went down a treat with the audience, so now we're getting more of his miserable looking wife. Bronn, (and I'll admit, I LOVE Bron, both in the books and the show) as I said earlier, is there now, purely because everyone loves him.

    Theres an amazing, coherent, logical story that can be pared out of the wealth of material that's in the books, its just that they're making a balls of a lot of it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,228 ✭✭✭podgemonster



    Theres simply no good reason to let a major character like that remain offscreen for 2 whole seasons, only to drop them back in like a magical macguffin to tie up all the loose ends.

    21 Episodes passed between Jaquen H'guar appearance in Season 2 and Season 5
    19 Episodes passed between Walder Frey's first and second appearance.
    16 Episodes passed between Mance Raydar's appearance at the end of Season 4.
    Barriston went missing for 12 episodes.

    The Stoneheart character exists in a another subset of plots which is the how unsettled the Riverlands are. For the show it means entire additional set of film locations, costumes and cast contracts. I really do hope we return to the Riverlands next season. I don't think they could fit it in this year.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,837 ✭✭✭intellectual dosser


    I think they're actually going to give the audience what they want for once and we're going to see Ramsey die horribly before the end of the season. That episode served to enhance our cravings for his blood.

    Maybe a certain Direwolf will jump out of the darkness during the battle with Stannis and bite his junk off.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,300 ✭✭✭✭razorblunt


    I think they're actually going to give the audience what they want for once and we're going to see Ramsey die horribly before the end of the season. That episode served to enhance our cravings for his blood.

    Maybe a certain Direwolf will jump out of the darkness during the battle with Stannis and bite his junk off.

    That would make no sense .... and yet be incredible!


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,837 ✭✭✭intellectual dosser


    razorblunt wrote: »
    That would make no sense .... and yet be incredible!

    We see from Arya's warg dreams that Nymeria is roaming the countryside with her wolfpack - given the way things are turning is it too much to ask for?


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 18,334 CMod ✭✭✭✭Nody


    I think they're actually going to give the audience what they want for once and we're going to see Ramsey die horribly before the end of the season. That episode served to enhance our cravings for his blood.

    Maybe a certain Direwolf will jump out of the darkness during the battle with Stannis and bite his junk off.
    If you're going down the revenge route I'd stay captured by Stanis and thrown in with his dogs to be torn apart. It would fit with he he hunted down other girls with his dog for them to torn him apart or him trying to run away only to be hunted down in the forest like prey with only a cry of pain as it fades to black.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,793 ✭✭✭FunLover18


    Nody wrote:
    with only a cry of pain as it fades to black.


    Fúck that!! I want to SEE him suffer


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 18,334 CMod ✭✭✭✭Nody


    FunLover18 wrote: »
    Fúck that!! I want to SEE him suffer
    Not going to happen if they go down that route for the same reason you did not get to see the rape scene of Sansa; people's imagination is stronger then what ever they could show with in the rating requirements.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,047 ✭✭✭GerB40


    Nody wrote: »
    Not going to happen if they go down that route for the same reason you did not get to see the rape scene of Sansa; people's imagination is stronger then what ever they could show with in the rating requirements.

    Ned's head on a spike??


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I run to praise this show when it deserves it, and it does quite often deserve it, but I have to chime in with my two cents on this week's showdown in Dorne...

    Is this a different show? Do D+D have some old camera and choreographing friends who used to work on Xena, but D+D are throwing them a bone now with some GoT work as second unit crew?? I hope somebody gets a bollocking from a HBO exec over the production values of that scene, it brought the show right down IMO. All it was missing was the Benny Hill music.

    The Sand Snakes - I was never their greatest fan in the books, but feel they could have been handled so much better in the show. Might it have been possible to cast the roles more carefully? I feel the current crop have been pulled out of their third week in drama school, given two afternoons of 'combat training', and flung in front of the camera with a "It'll be grand" sort of direction, their lines read from a prompter.

    Elaria is like a different character than the one who accompanied Oberyn to King's Landing and moved many viewers in some scenes last season. I'm sure that actress is happy to be working on a prime-time HBO show, I just hope she has no emotional attachment to the character and can 'switch-off' once she clocks out of her day's work.

    Jaime and Bronn's march into Sunspear felt like a walk in the park. If only poor 8-bit Mario had this easy a time gaining access to a castle to rescue a princess, the games would have been a bore.

    All that said, the Water Gardens set is impressive. Alexander Siddig as Doran and the guy playing Hotah are doing good work despite the hollow and scarce material. However, these silver linings don't really matter as the clouds they are among are just too vast and grey.

    Apart from Dorne, I enjoyed the episode. Aiden Gillen gets some slack over his accent, but I really think he is great as Littlefinger. So LF is just trying to get everyone murdering the shít out of each other and he'll swoop in with his Knights of the Vale and take victory from the wounded victors? Cunning and potentially brilliant. I finally got some sense from he and Cersei's scene of the show drawing together all of the 'war' plots that are brewing. Nice to see Cersei acknowledge that there is a man (Stannis) intent on marching on KL and taking the Throne from her son, and her trying to do something about it. Even if that 'something' is her just going along with LF's plan, and LF certainly does not have the Lannisters' best interests at heart.

    I agree with others that Sansa knew exactly what was ahead of her when LF told her what destiny awaited her in Winterfell. Right, Sansa might not have known that Ramsey is the devil, but would have known as a young maiden that on her wedding night, whether she wanted to or not, there would be some 'consummating'. Sansa is playing the long game here, and it is going to make her revenge all the more sweet when it finally does happen. The scene was handled well and I was happy not to be subjected to the visuals of the character in that distress. The sounds along with Theon's expression said it all.

    Speaking of which, Alfie Allen is doing serious work as Theon/Reek. Mad to think that his older sister wrote, released and charted a song about him sitting in his room getting high all day about 10 years ago! All three of he, Sophie Turner as Sansa and Iwan Rheon as Ramsey are at the top of their game in the Winterfell scenes. It's hard for me to believe that these scenes come from the same show that is currently giving us Takeshi's Castle: Dorne.

    I liked the Arya scenes, but will be surprised if we get more than her meeting up with Meryn Trant and going blind somewhere in the midst of that before season's end. Jaaqar was rightfully taking none of her "I hate The Hound" nonsense, because she didn't as much as she wanted to. I miss The Hound and Rory McCann, but it is promising that both the show and the book have left the character's fate uncertain.

    In King's Landing, I have to believe that Tommen is such a pushover because when it comes to the Faith arresting his mother Cersei, his reactions will be consistent and not even he can get his mother released from their custody. It seems Tommen will just be a mere observer this season. Joffrey is turning in his grave at his younger brother's inaction!

    So Jorah is going to make his way back to Meereen as a slave/fighter with Tyrion of the Golden Cock? That's cool with me. Iain Glenn is quite bad-ass in the role. I love how he stepped up to tell the Slaver (Adebisi in da house!!) that he killed a Dothraki blood-rider in single combat. The character still has gravitas, and I hope he gets some kind of redemption before the greyscale/other means kills him. Also, the scene between he and Tyrion where Tyrion confessed about killing Tywin and then Jorah found that out his own father had passed was quite poignant and well done.

    As someone who stopped judging this show on the merits of how close it followed the books earlier this season, I feel it is still quite strong. D+D just need to rein in it a bit. Scenes at the Wall, Winterfell, KL, Meereen, Bravos look stunning, but with all due respect to the hard workers involved, the D-crew got sent to do the Dorne scenes and it isn't good enough for a show that has set its own bar so high.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,000 ✭✭✭Stone Deaf 4evr


    stankratz wrote: »
    I liked the Arya scenes, but will be surprised if we get more than her meeting up with Meryn Trant and going blind somewhere in the midst of that before season's end. Jaaqar was rightfully taking none of her "I hate The Hound" nonsense, because she didn't as much as she wanted to. I miss The Hound and Rory McCann, but it is promising that both the show and the book have left the character's fate uncertain.

    I await correction, but I'm almost 100% positive that the books confirmed he was dead. Biter (i think) turned up with his horse and attacked Brienne?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,060 ✭✭✭jones


    Did they actually confirm he was dead though? I thought it was implied but with just enough doubt to allow me to grasp onto the chance that he's still alive


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,228 ✭✭✭podgemonster


    I await correction, but I'm almost 100% positive that the books confirmed he was dead. Biter (i think) turned up with his horse and attacked Brienne?

    Rather than correct you (as you could indeed by right), I'd recommend re-reading Chapter 31 (Brienne VI) of Feast and see is there anyone Brienne encounters that's sounds familiar. ;)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,300 ✭✭✭✭razorblunt


    We see from Arya's warg dreams that Nymeria is roaming the countryside with her wolfpack - given the way things are turning is it too much to ask for?

    Well seeing as D + D know the ending I'm hoping GRMM had plans to bring Nymeria back in, that would be one hell of a way for it to happen. Ramsey sets his dogs after someone, you hear their yelps, and then IT comes for him.

    It's about time the show had a Direwolf again!


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 770 ✭✭✭viztopia


    Is it me or is house Bolton the only house that hasn't lost anyone yet?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 793 ✭✭✭Kunkka


    I'm pretty sure the books hint that the Hound is very much alive as a grave digger?

    Was just going to post a rant about the sand snakes but I was beaten to it :) . It looked awful and did feel like Xena Princess Warrior. Awful

    More Stannis please!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,060 ✭✭✭jones


    I just want to Bolton's and Frey's to be wiped out by a selective meteor...I think it could happen ;-)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,589 ✭✭✭kingshankly


    If people are disgusted and dismayed by Sansa's rape scene then there watching the wrong show
    Was a lot tamer than I expected was expecting theon to be more involved like he was in the book with jeyne poole


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,338 ✭✭✭✭Liam O


    If people are disgusted and dismayed by Sansa's rape scene then there watching the wrong show
    Was a lot tamer than I expected was expecting theon to be more involved like he was in the book with jeyne poole

    Showing the emotional impact of the act and hearing the sounds had more of an effect for me than showing the physical act. Unconsensual sex leaves far more emotional than physical damage in general for it's victims. Though by Westeros law there's nothing actually wrong with what Ramsey did the real damage was shown in Theon's face and heard by Sansa's cries. I still don't agree with the need for the scene regardless.


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