It shouldnt bother me, but it does

bodice ripper · 03-10-2010 2:12am

dammit, I came in here looking for a bit of Faith No More. drat

OPENROAD · 03-10-2010 2:15am

southsiderosie wrote: »

Anglo did not lend to the general public; it was a builders bank. THe reluctance to lend to the IRish government now (as exhibited by high interest rates) is in no small part because the government assumed the private debt and liabilities of Anglo - not to save regular depositors and keep credit flowing through healthy industries, but to prop up developers and friends in an industry which was undergoing a much needed, albeit painful adjustment anyway.

I don't think that anyone is saying (on this thread anyway) that the government should have let all of the banks fail. But clearly they could have cut some of the dead wood before committing significant public resources, and they didn't.

From what I have read German, French and British assets and pension funds lose out as a result for starters.The people who lent to Anglo would lose out.Now I know you could say who cares? But the impact that this might have on our ability to borrow. I do accept that this alone MAY not have an impact. Secondly, there is the possible ripple effect and the argument is that this unknown.

As I said though even if they let it fail, there is a significant cost

southsiderosie · 03-10-2010 2:21am

OPENROAD wrote: »

From what I have read German, French and British assets and pension funds lose out as a result for starters.Now I know you could say who cares? But the impact that this might have on our ability to borrow. Secondly, there is the possible ripple effect and the argument is that this unknown.

As I said though even if they let it fail, there is a significant cost

When investors buy assets they are taking a calculated risk. If they win, they make money. If they lose, they don't. For those banks that took a risk in Ireland, well, this time they lost. Tough ****; that's how capitalism is supposed to work.

Oh, BTW, there are currently plenty of banks and institutional investors who are making a killing from betting on Ireland's economy tanking. If things shoudl turn around, should the government bail them out too? :rolleyes:

OPENROAD · 03-10-2010 2:28am

southsiderosie wrote: »

When investors buy assets they are taking a calculated risk. If they win, they make money. If they lose, they don't. For those banks that took a risk in Ireland, well, this time they lost. Tough ****; that's how capitalism is supposed to work.

Oh, BTW, there are currently plenty of banks and institutional investors who are making a killing from betting on Ireland's economy tanking. If things shoudl turn around, should the government bail them out too? :rolleyes:

Don't get me wrong I do see your point, it may well be the case that if we let the Bondholders lose out it may have no impact on us as possibly there position on Anglo was quite small relative to the there overall position. As I said I fully see where you are coming from, but really we are a small country and so are not really holding the cards.

Sticky_Fingers · 03-10-2010 3:53am

mink_man wrote: »

many many people apply for loans...the money the government is pumping into the banks is to be lended....ye must think brian cowen is thick, he'd beat any of ye in a table quiz! :P

More than likely you'll find our glorious leader slumped comatose over a table in the corner of the pub.

Cavehill Red · 03-10-2010 4:01am

OPENROAD wrote: »

We don't support the banks = we have no economy

Best summation yet of the horseturd we've been fed.
You may not have noticed, but we already effectively don't have an economy, since there are half a million on the dole, a hundred thousands beggared in negative equity, and we're borrowing just to pay the public sector wage bill each month.
Adding a 50 billion banking bailout to pay the losing bets of the banksters, Fianna Fail funders and shady bondholders like Roman Abramovich is not a solution to any of the above.
Forgive me for stating what should be BLINDLY FVCKING OBVIOUS, but a further 50 billion debt on top of the current situation is endgame for this nation.
We have to default on that debt or we'll default on our sovereign debt. At this point, I'd be inclined to do both, actually.

flynnlives · 03-10-2010 4:14am

If ye want to know why we are in the **** read this.
http://trueeconomics.blogspot.com/2010/10/economics-21010-brian-luceys-comment-on.html

You would do well to follow Constantin Gurdgeiv and Brian Lucey on twitter as well.
The major reason we are in the **** is not the banks, its our incompetent government that has gotten us to this stage.

YouTalkinToMe · 03-10-2010 7:49am

hey i went to an atm it said insuffient funds i said is that me or the bank....

Bonito · 03-10-2010 10:04am

high heels wrote: »

I got a job in the UK...

I pay more taxes out of my pay packet but unlike Ireland I get free health care bins taken away every week cheap motor tax... Ireland have hidden taxes everywhere its like flying with ryanair!!

We're far from Ryanair. I think they're one of the only airlines who are making profits. Massive ones at that. I'd gladly hand the country over to O'Leary for a year or two.

O ya the best thing the milkman delivers the milk in a glass bottle!!! its amazin!

Did you go to the UK in a DeLorean?

YouTalkinToMe wrote: »

hey i went to an atm it said insuffient funds i said is that me or the bank....

I went to an ATM. It gave me money and my card.

P.s. We have your money. The ransom is the equivalent of the money we have. Your move.

MagicMarker · 03-10-2010 10:17am

They should stop teaching Irish in Schools and make Political Science & Economics mandatory.

whadabouchasir · 03-10-2010 10:29am

MagicMarker wrote: »

They should stop teaching Irish in Schools and make Political Science & Economics mandatory.

How many economists do we need?

Bonito · 03-10-2010 10:29am

whadabouchasir wrote: »

How many economists do we need?

About 3 fiddy.

MagicMarker · 03-10-2010 10:31am

whadabouchasir wrote: »

How many economists do we need?

How many Irish speakers do we need?

Bonito · 03-10-2010 10:32am

MagicMarker wrote: »

How many Irish speakers do we need?

Irish speaking economists. Boom.

orourkeda · 03-10-2010 10:36am

th3 s1aught3r wrote: »

I didnt have an interest in politics or politicians until recently when they started to give my money away to bailout the banks. Thats a failure on my part I admit
I honestly think the vast majority of people in the country are not interested in politics.
The problem with that is that they (politicians) are getting away with murder becasue of this general apathy , I think if people really cared they would be shouting louder than they are now
What do you think has to happen for the Irish people to say "enough" ??

I think Irish people have been metaphorically bum raped and skull f*cked by the whole scenario.

I think if they were physically bum raped and skull f*Cked they still wouldnt do anything to change it.

My apathy in the irish people has only been intensified by this whole banker bailout thing and nothing i've seen has forced me to change my opinion. The simple fact that the FF party still command about a quarter of the vote in a recent opinion poll sickens me.

Mr Benevolent · 03-10-2010 10:49am

I'm preparing an article on this, but it boils down to a few words:

Ireland needs a Swiss-style pure democracy.

The Guardian's point about Ireland being a one-party system is eerily accurate.

Oh yeah, and this

we believe unemployment has peaked at 8.3%," he said.

Haheehohohoha. And Iceland calls themselves in trouble.

Several countries have massive strikes. We park a truck outside the Dail. What kind of gutless moronic sheep are we? And yes, I'm including myself in that.

Herb Powell · 03-10-2010 11:31am

OPENROAD wrote: »

We don't support the banks = we have no economy

I agree but
underfunded hospitals=even ****tier health system

douglashyde wrote: »

I think it’s when people that know nothing about government and how economic systems work start to have an opinion that we have an even bigger problem.

I've seen socialists on Henry St protest at bailing out Anglo and that it was wrong and that we could have spent the money on hospitals when they dont understand how letting a bank go under would affect Irish Bonds and blah blah blah.

I've seen people think that the problem with our Health system is because of cut backs and not because of the massive inefficiencies
I’ve seen people throw around the lines "We should never have bailed out the banks" with no idea of the repercussions of not bailing them out and blah blah blah

I’ve seen our public sector defend their massive wage bill and say “it’s not our fault” and blah blah blah

I’ve heard people talk about the expensive account and wages of our ministers and then think they are qualified to understand why this country is going under and blah blah blah.

Certain people shouldn’t be allowed vote!

you have to say their wages and expenses are ****ing ridiculous, especially when they are telling people to take cuts

Amhran Nua · 03-10-2010 11:45am

mink_man wrote: »

ye want the economy to get moving, how is that gonna happen? It's gonna be the banks that are gonna make it grow again, by lending people money and them people spending money making business which in turn makes people employed which makes people buy their service which in turn makes the economy grow. no banks, no money.

Thats the theory. The reality over the last ten years was that the banks lent mostly to property developers and mortgagees, which is economically eating your own tail.

We need to protect the deposits of Irish citizens and businesses, balance the books on spending (thats reducing it to 2004 levels, not a massive leap), and look at alternate means to encourage real entrepreneurship.

Confab wrote: »

Ireland needs a Swiss-style pure democracy.

At the local level maybe, not at the national level. Some cantons in Switzerland didn't even give women the vote until the 1990s. California is another example of the disaster that can come from direct democracy, you can hit google for the ongoing train crash that represents.

At the local level you expect and encourage people to look after the interests of their local area, so direct democracy isn't a bad fit. Trying to extend that enlightened self interest to national decisions doesn't work.

th3 s1aught3r · 03-10-2010 12:22pm

orourkeda wrote: »

. The simple fact that the FF party still command about a quarter of the vote in a recent opinion poll sickens me.

In a week of crazy stats, this is probably the most worrying

SkepticOne · 03-10-2010 7:39pm

OPENROAD wrote: »

So we let the banks fail what happens next?? We let the Bondholders fail, the very people that are lending to us at the moment and keeping the country afloat, so what do we do?

Bailing out Anglo has had the opposite effect, unfortunately. Lenders don't want to lend to a government that can't face up to reality.

I think this is why people are starting to get angry now. Initially they trusted the governments actions and believed they would result in greater lending and an economic recovery, but none of that has happened and people are wondering where it is going to end.

Son Of A Vidic · 03-10-2010 8:11pm

OPENROAD wrote: »

We don't support the banks = we have no economy

If we don't try and maintain a first world health service = you might not live/be around long enough to support banks or anything else for that matter. No wanker, Banker will ever save your life I can assure you.

Overheal · 03-10-2010 8:16pm

th3 s1aught3r wrote: »

I didnt have an interest in politics or politicians until recently when they started to give my money away to bailout the banks. Thats a failure on my part I admit
I honestly think the vast majority of people in the country are not interested in politics.
The problem with that is that they (politicians) are getting away with murder becasue of this general apathy , I think if people really cared they would be shouting louder than they are now
What do you think has to happen for the Irish people to say "enough" ??

Well at least another one is finally turning on when others including myself were trying to highlight problems with apathy years ago, and since.

Mister men · 03-10-2010 8:26pm

I think it's just pretty sad we let it happen. The apathy is astounding tbh.

seven-iron · 03-10-2010 8:30pm

If your still (its 2010!) wondering why banks need to be bailed out, you need to read up on Lehman Brothers. People's memory must be short.

th3 s1aught3r · 03-10-2010 8:30pm

Overheal wrote: »

Well at least another one is finally turning on when others including myself were trying to highlight problems with apathy years ago, and since.

I am shocked by the apathy of the Irish in the last 2 years. they dont seem to give a sh*t that the government are bum raping them with this bailout. I thought that it was because the pain hadnt trickled down to the people yet, but there are nearly 500,000 on the dole

K-9 · 03-10-2010 8:45pm

seven-iron wrote: »

If your still (its 2010!) wondering why banks need to be bailed out, you need to read up on Lehman Brothers. People's memory must be short.

I think most people see the need for bailing out banks, especially AIB and BOI, it's the likes of Roman Abromavic, the Chelsea owner, people object too.

maringo · 03-10-2010 9:03pm

I think the least we are entitled to is a breakdown of where exactly our money went when it was put into the hole that is Anglo. I'm mad as hell - I never gave my permission to any government to bankrupt my kids and grankids - how dare they use OUR sweat to bail that bank which was never a normal operating bank but seemed to exist to enrich a golden circle.

What about their accountants who examined and certified their accounts year after year? Is there no offence there?

The guy who drove his mixer lorry to the gates of Leinster House was arrested pretty sharply and quite rightly - in contrast. Did he beggar every man, woman and child into the distant future?

But one law for them and another one for us in this corrupt country!

th3 s1aught3r · 03-10-2010 9:12pm

maringo wrote: »

What about their accountants who examined and certified their accounts year after year? Is there no offence there?

No apparently no politician or banker committed any criminal offence whatsoever
I know, I find it hard to believe too

Overheal · 03-10-2010 9:46pm

and oh yeah:

It shouldnt bother me, but it does

YES. Yes it should.

Tiddlypeeps · 03-10-2010 10:04pm

Cavehill Red wrote: »

Best summation yet of the horseturd we've been fed.
You may not have noticed, but we already effectively don't have an economy, since there are half a million on the dole, a hundred thousands beggared in negative equity, and we're borrowing just to pay the public sector wage bill each month.
Adding a 50 billion banking bailout to pay the losing bets of the banksters, Fianna Fail funders and shady bondholders like Roman Abramovich is not a solution to any of the above.
Forgive me for stating what should be BLINDLY FVCKING OBVIOUS, but a further 50 billion debt on top of the current situation is endgame for this nation.
We have to default on that debt or we'll default on our sovereign debt. At this point, I'd be inclined to do both, actually.

I find it hilarious when people on the internet say we have no economy when they can clearly still afford a computer and an internet connection. If the country really is as bad as people make it out to be I really don't see how these things can be on their list of priorities. If things were as bad as they were in the 80's then people would be scraping every penny they could to feed their kids, or keep a roof over there own heads. I'm not saying the country isn't in a bad way by any means, just find this kind of thing funny.

It shouldnt bother me, but it does

Comments