Peak travel restrictions for free travel passes

foggy_lad · 25-11-2015 3:03pm

Vic_08 wrote: »

They are, sort of. The unknown number of copied, stolen, forged and borrowed card passes in addition to the 812,892 will be finally rendered invalid in the next year or so.

Not to worry, there are still opportunities to cheat the system* under the new regime.

*Outside the general scam of getting put on disability for some relatively minor problem when you are still perfectly able to do nixers, buy and sell stuff online, sit on buses and trains for hours on end and any number of other activities that could be applied to the job market.

If you have any evidence or even just suspect people are abusing the system you should report them to the department and let them be investigated.

If you feel it is too easy to "get on disability" maybe you should be taking that up with your elected representatives?

joeysoap · 25-11-2015 3:22pm

Hopefully in the next year I will be eligible for FT. I hope to use it too. But I do agree, where possible FT should only apply after 9am and not between 5pm and 6pm. This might always be possible of course, not everybody lives in Dublin, and rural services might not be so frequent.(Dublin holders of FT are the big winners in the scheme, Dart, Luas, Dublin Bus, Bus Eireann and Iarnrod Eireann, some rural communities might only have one or two services a day). Abuse of the system is widespread I believe so better controls would be welcome.

km991148 · 25-11-2015 4:50pm

class - yep give people in need of a benefit a benefit but restrict it to make them know that they are seen as 2nd class citizens.

How about worrying about the real problem of their not being enough capacity on our public transport?

Victor · 26-11-2015 1:16am

km991148 wrote: »

class - yep give people in need of a benefit a benefit but restrict it to make them know that they are seen as 2nd class citizens.

If you worry about people being treated as second-class citizens, how about increasing pensions, etc, to a meaningful level? Governments have used free-travel as a means of subsidising the welfare budget by abusing the transport budget.

How about worrying about the real problem of their not being enough capacity on our public transport?

There is plenty of capacity in the system, but off-peak only.

Sam Russell · 26-11-2015 9:27am

If individuals are worried about being seen as second class citizens because they use a FTP, then all they have to do is buy a ticket instead.

km991148 · 26-11-2015 11:42am

Victor wrote: »

If you worry about people being treated as second-class citizens, how about increasing pensions, etc, to a meaningful level? Governments have used free-travel as a means of subsidising the welfare budget by abusing the transport budget.

Right, but because the gov screwed up that and the people have to use the passes, then it means it ok to restrict them?

If we do it the other way and give more cash rather than a ftp (which would prob be better) would you favour a system of still not allowing all these people not actively using the bus for going to work to wait until after 930?

Imagine you were doing shift work and the bus is busy then and you need to sit further up the back of the bus because a FTP user is on the bus at 3pm when you are going to work? I suppose we will start a thread about FTP users sitting at the front of the bus - "this is terrible they should be made to stand"?
Maybe instead of a FTP we could mark them in some other way? Some special clothes or they can only travel in a special trailer that the bus tows?

The idea is silly. We need more capacity at peak times, regardless of users.

Sam Russell wrote: »

If individuals are worried about being seen as second class citizens because they use a FTP, then all they have to do is buy a ticket instead.

yep - but the majority of FTP users need the travel pass as they have fu( all cash - easy to say just buy a ticket when you have plenty of money to 'just buy a ticket'. If you are talking about the scammers on the system, then that should be addressed, but I am willing to bet there are not as many as you may think. Besides, see above - how would that fit in this system of stopping people using the bus who are not using it for work (as was the original point of the thread)

Victor wrote: »

There is plenty of capacity in the system, but off-peak only.

Good point, but the thread is specifically about peak travel restrictions.. There is not enough capacity at peak times, so that should be addressed rather than trying to come up with some sort of 2 tier system based on social status.

braniganl · 26-11-2015 1:50pm

Sam Russell wrote: »

If individuals are worried about being seen as second class citizens because they use a FTP, then all they have to do is buy a ticket instead.

Tosser.

The overseers of the FTP scheme (overpaid,underskilled civil servants) could get their act together and account for every pass issued, to make sure they are genuinely needed. Then there would be no need to restrict FT in the first place, and to shame those who genuinely need to avail of it.

monument · 26-11-2015 2:05pm

triple nipple wrote: »

Off topic but why ohhh why do people get on trams with prams during rush hour peak times ? Like come on seriously its so squashed as it is and then you bring on a giant fudge off pram! Wtf !!!!

Why do you get on a tram a peak times? Could you not walk, drive or get a taxi?

Victor · 26-11-2015 3:04pm

km991148 wrote: »

We need more capacity at peak times, regardless of users.

Peak capacity is the most expensive capacity to provide, as it means buying buses and employing drivers that aren't used at other times.

Increasing peak capacity is poor value for money. Shifting demand to off-peak is much more efficient, e.g. by providing discounted daily / season tickets if you travel after 09:30.

km991148 · 27-11-2015 11:05am

Victor wrote: »

Peak capacity is the most expensive capacity to provide, as it means buying buses and employing drivers that aren't used at other times.

Increasing peak capacity is poor value for money. Shifting demand to off-peak is much more efficient, e.g. by providing discounted daily / season tickets if you travel after 09:30.

Fair enough - but I don't think its right to do this via the FTP scheme - people need to do stuff at peak times - regardless.

Giving more cash to FTP users and discounting off peak tickets would seem a better way to do it.

Hilly Bill · 27-11-2015 12:07pm

monument wrote: »

Why do you get on a tram a peak times? Could you not walk, drive or get a taxi?

Maybe they don't have a big pram with them. One individual takes up less space than a big pram. Why does anyone use the luas? Could they not just walk, drive or get a taxi instead?

Carawaystick · 27-11-2015 3:10pm

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Maybe they don't have a big pram with them. One individual takes up less space than a big pram. Why does anyone use the luas? Could they not just walk, drive or get a taxi instead?

Generally, the people in the pram can't walk, let alone drive....

Hilly Bill · 27-11-2015 6:38pm

Carawaystick wrote: »

Generally, the people in the pram can't walk, let alone drive....

But the person trying to ram it onto the luas can.

monument · 27-11-2015 9:43pm

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Maybe they don't have a big pram with them. One individual takes up less space than a big pram.

Maybe they don't but maybe they have a greater need to get on the tram than half of the people on the tram!

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Why does anyone use the luas? Could they not just walk, drive or get a taxi instead?

Great question for people giving out about other people using trams at peak time.... I'm not one of those people.

Victor · 27-11-2015 10:51pm

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Maybe they don't have a big pram with them. One individual takes up less space than a big pram. Why does anyone use the luas? Could they not just walk, drive or get a taxi instead?

Why do people with 80% empty cars block the bus lane when I'm going to work?

newacc2015 · 27-11-2015 10:59pm

km991148 wrote: »

Fair enough - but I don't think its right to do this via the FTP scheme - people need to do stuff at peak times - regardless.

Giving more cash to FTP users and discounting off peak tickets would seem a better way to do it.

But do OAPs really need to get a bus to Tesco at 8am to "just get out of the house", when pretty much all the suburbs of Dublin are trying to get into work? If there is no financial cost to FTP travelling at peak times, why wouldnt they not travel at peak times? A fair amount of OAPs on my bus in morning are just going on the bus at that time, as there is no cost to do it. If they really need to go do something at peak times, they can pay a reduced fare

What go is off peak tickets when everyone is trying to get to work for their 9-5 shift? Most people using buses in the morning that are paying are going to college or work. Even if off peak travel was free, they still wouldnt use it.

end of the road · 27-11-2015 11:25pm

newacc2015 wrote: »

But do OAPs really need to get a bus to Tesco at 8am to "just get out of the house"

how do you know that is the reason they are traveling?

newacc2015 wrote: »

A fair amount of OAPs on my bus in morning are just going on the bus at that time

and how exactly would you know that?

newacc2015 wrote: »

If they really need to go do something at peak times, they can pay a reduced fare

If they really need to go do something at peak times as they are entitled to do as public transport is for all, they can use their passes

Mario95 · 01-12-2015 2:50pm

end of the road wrote: »

how do you know they could have waited later in the day. why shouldn't they be allowed to use it just because you can't get a seat? what if they were stopped from using it and you still couldn't get a seat what then? it makes perfect sense to allow them to use it as more users = more justification for the service.

how do you know they aren't pennyless? are you an accountant for all these people so know exactly what they all get or have to spend?

cop on and consideration for what. none of what you mentioned is an issue. if someone wants to go to the shop at 8am then why are they and should they wait just to suit you?

I cried after reading that. I cried again after seeing 3 thanks to that post. I really hope I am too tired not to see that this is a troll. And these HOW DO YOU KNOW lines, just wow...
Anyway, I am planning to go from Connolly to Heuston this Friday evening. Is there much people on the red line that time?
This is probably not the right place for this, sorry

end of the road · 01-12-2015 2:59pm

Mario95 wrote: »

I cried after reading that. I cried again after seeing 3 thanks to that post.

i'm sorry to hear that you cried over legitimate points, and that people saw that i was right. nothing i can do about that i'm afraid.

Mario95 wrote: »

I really hope I am too tired not to see that this is a troll.

your not tired and i'm no troll thank you very much

Mario95 wrote: »

these HOW DO YOU KNOW lines, just wow...

legitimate questions, thats what the how do you know lines are.

Mario95 wrote: »

Anyway, I am planning to go from Connolly to Heuston this Friday evening. Is there much people on the red line at 5?

yes i would imagine there would be a lot of people on the luas at that time.

Sam Russell · 01-12-2015 4:27pm

I think we should not lose sight of the fact that the FTP is not a right but a privilege, and was originally restricted to just off peak periods. Pensions are rights.

I think that it would be reasonable to reimpose the morning restriction - say after 9am, and perhaps only in urban areas and intercity trains.

There is obviously a high level of abuse and fraud, and many people have FTP granted that should not have been given them by normal logic. Maybe it is time to rethink who should get them and why, and who should not.

Remember, elderly people are restricted severely on driving licences so they do not have a choice about driving.

end of the road · 01-12-2015 5:17pm

Sam Russell wrote: »

I think that it would be reasonable to reimpose the morning restriction - say after 9am, and perhaps only in urban areas and intercity trains.

why would that be reasonable. why should these people be restricted just because? why these particular services and not others? surely the more people on the service the more justification for the service and capacity increases for such which would be needed regardless. restrictions for ftp in the peak would simply be a bury the head in the sand tactic to not deal with the real issue, frequency and capacity

Sala · 01-12-2015 5:28pm

I always assume people on buses / trams with prams in rush hour have to be the same places the rest of us do, work after a detour to the creche. I don't have kids but if I did I wouldn't choose to go anywhere on the public transport in rush hour if I could wait an hour. Sometimes they can't get onto a bus for a while as there's only one spot, so I assume they have no choice but to go at that time

Mario95 · 01-12-2015 7:33pm

end of the road wrote: »

why would that be reasonable. why should these people be restricted just because?

Just because? Public transport at peak time is a valuable resource. It has a value and costs money to be sustained. I don't think that it is fair that people have to pay extra money for peak time tickets while FTP is still a free ride sponsored by others. If some FTP people happen to be in the odd 'what if' situation at peak times then why can't they just to prepare the exact sum money like everyone else?

harr · 01-12-2015 7:51pm

I have a travel pass due to the fact I am a carer for my son who has special needs,we need to travel to city centre from the Midlands for various hospital appointments and different therapys the only way I can get to city is by train as my wife needs our car for work....all his appointments are early morning so need to get rush hour trains....
I would give anything not to be in the position of needing a travel pass but to us it's vital ...and it's only me who travels free my son is not eligible for a pass till he turns 18 ..
Pissed off with people taring everyone with a travel pass as wasters and freeloaders...

end of the road · 01-12-2015 8:19pm

Mario95 wrote: »

Just because? Public transport at peak time is a valuable resource. It has a value and costs money to be sustained. I don't think that it is fair that people have to pay extra money for peak time tickets while FTP is still a free ride sponsored by others. If some FTP people happen to be in the odd 'what if' situation at peak times then why can't they just to prepare the exact sum money like everyone else?

one would be paying extra at peak time regardless of ftp. If some FTP people happen to be in the odd 'what if' situation at peak times then why should they prepare the exact sum of money like everyone else when they have ftp and when there would be no actual benefit to doing so?

Mario95 · 01-12-2015 8:43pm

end of the road wrote: »

one would be paying extra at peak time regardless of ftp.

Thats not the point. My point was that it is not fair to limit the amount of non FTP people using public transport by increasing prices at certain times compared to FTP staying free.
Besides, people with FTP also contribute to the existence of peak time fares, as much as any other person using public transport at these times.

end of the road wrote: »

If some FTP people happen to be in the odd 'what if' situation at peak times then why should they prepare the exact sum of money like everyone else when they have ftp and when there would be no actual benefit to doing so?

I don't agree with FTP during the peak times, and thus my question does not assume it in the answer. I don't see what you are trying to say.

Peppa Pig · 01-12-2015 10:29pm

Mario95 wrote: »

Just because? Public transport at peak time is a valuable resource.

What are your views on students and children?
Should they be made to pay the full adult fare at peak times, they are also taking up valuable space without contributing fully.

Perhaps you would like to ban wheelchair users until after 9am as they take up a lot of space?

Mario95 · 01-12-2015 10:38pm

Peppa Pig wrote: »

What are your views on students and children?
Should they be made to pay the full adult fare at peak times, they are also taking up valuable space without contributing fully.

Perhaps you would like to ban wheelchair users until after 9am as they take up a lot of space?

If they are limiting the amount of people using their services by increasing the fare prices, they should do it for everyone, students, children, wheelchair users, and everyone else.
Its not the case of full adult fare but the relative increase during peak times.

Victor · 02-12-2015 12:16am

Things that are free or near free get abused - just look at the rows over paying for water, where there has been no incentive to moderate use.

Peppa Pig wrote: »

What are your views on students and children?
Should they be made to pay the full adult fare at peak times, they are also taking up valuable space without contributing fully.

Students should pay full price. But they should also get meaningful income supports (less the discounts other adults can get).

I've not studied the matter of child fares much, but children do get something of a free ride. As an example, why should children from the Wicklow or the northside of Dublin be disproportionately subsidised to travel long distances go to fee-paying schools in Blackrock. The Schoolchild Smart Card Single from Balbriggan to Blackrock (or Kilcoole) is €0.75.

Peppa Pig · 02-12-2015 9:59am

Mario95 wrote: »

If they are limiting the amount of people using their services by increasing the fare prices, they should do it for everyone, students, children, wheelchair users, and everyone else.
Its not the case of full adult fare but the relative increase during peak times.

Have I totally missed something, but when did fares increase for peak time travel only? Or when was there a cap on the number of people allowed to travel at peak hours?

Peak travel restrictions for free travel passes

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