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Budget 2015

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  • 14-10-2014 10:39pm
    #1
    kronsich
    Registered Users Posts: 65 ✭✭


    Is the public sector pension levy gone?


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    #2
    km79
    Registered Users Posts: 48,137 ✭✭✭✭km79


    kronsich wrote: »
    Is the public sector pension levy gone?

    no


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    #3
    byhookorbycrook
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 12,481 Mod ✭✭✭✭byhookorbycrook


    Capitation grant down again, PTR ratio untouched as the huge cuts to resource hours.


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    #4
    TheDriver
    Registered Users Posts: 12,413 ✭✭✭✭TheDriver


    I noticed that, no cuts but in middle of it, 1% cut. Nothing on fee paying schools that was rumoured. Gas all the fuss about taking on loads more teachers when in fact they are needed as part of existing ptr.....


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    #5
    evolving_doors
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭evolving_doors


    TheDriver wrote: »
    I noticed that, no cuts but in middle of it, 1% cut. Nothing on fee paying schools that was rumoured. Gas all the fuss about taking on loads more teachers when in fact they are needed as part of existing ptr.....

    all about the optics.... 1000 sounds like a huge number eh?


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    #6
    mirrorwall14
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,751 ✭✭✭mirrorwall14


    And the cynical side of me is wondering how many of those 1000 will actually be full time jobs as opposed to fractions of jobs


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    #7
    rainbowtrout
    Registered Users Posts: 15,381 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    kronsich wrote: »
    Is the public sector pension levy gone?

    Not a chance.

    TheDriver wrote: »
    I noticed that, no cuts but in middle of it, 1% cut. Nothing on fee paying schools that was rumoured. Gas all the fuss about taking on loads more teachers when in fact they are needed as part of existing ptr.....

    ya, if they were genuinely creating 1000 extra teaching jobs then it would actually lower the PTR. So I imagine the school going population is rising and more would be hired next September anyway.

    The baby boom of the last 5-6 years is starting primary school at this stage.

    Even the notion of 1000 extra teachers is a drop in the ocean. There are about 700 secondary schools. That's just over 1 per school, before you even go near primary schools.


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    #8
    endakenny
    Closed Accounts Posts: 956 ✭✭✭endakenny


    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/more-than-1-700-staff-to-be-recruited-in-education-1.1963121
    President of the Association of Secondary Teachers of Ireland Philip Irwin said the budget “will do nothing to prevent the ongoing damage to second-level schools and to students’ education”.

    Education cuts over the last five years have included the withdrawal of subject teachers, guidance counsellors, specialist teachers and in-school management posts, Mr Irwin said, and “this Budget does nothing to make up for the lost ground”.

    Of course there are difficulties in schools because of cutbacks but the proverbial sky has not fallen. There's no evidence that the removal of the special allocation of guidance counsellors has led to a tsunami of self-harm among secondary students.


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    #9
    rainbowtrout
    Registered Users Posts: 15,381 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    endakenny wrote: »
    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/more-than-1-700-staff-to-be-recruited-in-education-1.1963121



    Of course there are difficulties in schools because of cutbacks but the proverbial sky has not fallen. There's no evidence that the removal of the special allocation of guidance counsellors has led to a tsunami of self-harm among secondary students.

    Should we wait until the sky falls before a problem is acknowledged?


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    #10
    evolving_doors
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭evolving_doors


    endakenny wrote: »
    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/more-than-1-700-staff-to-be-recruited-in-education-1.1963121



    Of course there are difficulties in schools because of cutbacks but the proverbial sky has not fallen. There's no evidence that the removal of the special allocation of guidance counsellors has led to a tsunami of self-harm among secondary students.

    I think we already gave you plenty of anecdotal evidence enda HERE but it wasnt tsunami enough for you. If one child suffers from self harm because of cutbacks thats 1 too many.

    consider that topic 'off'
    MOD


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    #11
    Pwpane
    Closed Accounts Posts: 457 ✭✭Pwpane


    endakenny wrote: »
    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/more-than-1-700-staff-to-be-recruited-in-education-1.1963121



    Of course there are difficulties in schools because of cutbacks but the proverbial sky has not fallen. There's no evidence that the removal of the special allocation of guidance counsellors has led to a tsunami of self-harm among secondary students.

    What a genuinely nasty thing to say. Respect? Gone.


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    #12
    Chilli Con Kearney
    Registered Users Posts: 301 ✭✭Chilli Con Kearney


    Regular reader, infrequent poster here.

    At the risk of a rap on the knuckles or worse from the mods /... mod snip..../

    Referred to member has been 'spoken to' Chilli so we're moving on but keeping a close eye on things.

    We'd prefer reporting posts rather than going off topic too, but ... point noted, (and deleted as per charter).

    I really dont mind if folk want to discuss stuff in general about the forum , just report what folk have issue with and we can talk by PM.

    For the sake of continuity, this post will be deleted at some stage.

    Back to the budget.


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    #13
    f3232
    Registered Users Posts: 155 ✭✭f3232


    Armelodie wrote: »
    I think we already gave you plenty of anecdotal evidence enda HERE but it wasnt tsunami enough for you. If one child suffers from self harm because of cutbacks thats 1 too many.

    consider that topic 'off'
    MOD

    In fairness to Enda, the evidence you site is hardly unbias?


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    #14
    byhookorbycrook
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 12,481 Mod ✭✭✭✭byhookorbycrook


    http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/resource-teacher-hires-limited-to-21-until-june-291137.html#.VD2jDdQL88S.facebook
    Only 21 more resource teachers can be appointed to schools between now and June to work with children with disabilities.


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    #15
    implausible
    Registered Users Posts: 3,937 ✭✭✭implausible


    f3232 wrote: »
    In fairness to Enda, the evidence you site is hardly unbias?

    In fairness to the mod, she said that the evidence she's citing is anecdotal.

    Of course, it's statistics that measure emotional distress and self-harm and percentages of suicidal ideation we need...

    Children are not productivity units: not everything that counts can be counted etc.

    Restoring the guidance counsellors to ex-quota would have been a good move.


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    #16
    f3232
    Registered Users Posts: 155 ✭✭f3232


    implausible wrote: »
    In fairness to the mod, she said that the evidence she's citing is anecdotal.

    Anecdotal and bias, not great evidence really is it?
    Of course, it's statistics that measure emotional distress and self-harm and percentages of suicidal ideation we need...

    No, but hyperbole and exaggeration are not good good measures either.
    Restoring the guidance counsellors to ex-quota would have been a good move.

    Why ex quota? why not in quota and a decrease in PT ratio?


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    #17
    evolving_doors
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭evolving_doors


    f3232 wrote: »
    Anecdotal and bias, not great evidence really is it?



    No, but hyperbole and exaggeration are not good good measures either.



    Why ex quota? why not in quota and a decrease in PT ratio?

    Well look, I mentioned that it was anecdotal, but half of what we post in the forum is our experiences, surely they are worth something!.
    If you were to do a historical review of anything wouldnt you talk to people involved if you could.. or would you just base it on Newspaper headlines only?

    Why I 'tried' :( to close off this topic (and the last thread) was because of a refusal to accept any experience put forward (ever! on any thread) but yet an overwillingness to accept newspaper headlines as gospel.

    But hey ,mods on boards are often accused of being megalomaniac censors , so Ill let this one run.

    But try and stick to the budget if you can etc.


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    #18
    evolving_doors
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭evolving_doors


    f3232 wrote: »

    Why ex quota? why not in quota and a decrease in PT ratio?

    Thats a good question btw...


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    #19
    Chilli Con Kearney
    Registered Users Posts: 301 ✭✭Chilli Con Kearney


    Because a simple increase in the PTR will not be passed on to the Guidance Counsellors. Many principals will simply use this increase for classroom teachers, thus leaving GCs in the same position they are now.

    The service simply needs to be ringfenced. Hours need to be put aside for it.


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    #20
    implausible
    Registered Users Posts: 3,937 ✭✭✭implausible


    f3232 wrote: »
    Anecdotal and bias, not great evidence really is it?



    No, but hyperbole and exaggeration are not good good measures either.

    The topic you're discussing is the effect on pupils of the cuts in guidance hours and that cannot be measured simply, so anecdotal evidence from teachers on the ground is the next best thing. The things that can be measured are deaths, hospitalisation from self-harm and psychiatric interventions, all of which are things that a guidance counsellor in a school is working to prevent.

    I'm sorry if you think of those terms as hyperbole and teachers' relaying of experience in schools as exaggeration, but the reality is that these things happen. Last year in the North West we had had teenage sisters commit suicide, I know of three students in my school who are survivors of child abuse and incest and some of the teenagers I see every day have so much turmoil going on in their lives that it's amazing they come in at all. School is a safe place for students and the GC usually the first port of call when there is a problem.

    GCs need time to meet students and plenty of it.


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    #21
    chases0102
    Registered Users Posts: 1,035 ✭✭✭chases0102


    My pay hasn't changed at all....


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    #22
    rainbowtrout
    Registered Users Posts: 15,381 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    chases0102 wrote: »
    My pay hasn't changed at all....

    Why would it? Budget changes don't take affect until January.


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    #23
    chases0102
    Registered Users Posts: 1,035 ✭✭✭chases0102


    Thanks rainbowtrout....egg on my face!


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