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New fleet announcement
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31-10-2013 6:08pm#1
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So far there is Hyundai i40 estates and santa fe's coming in along with transit connect possible mondeos aswell
Hyundai i40s - are they even up to the job :rolleyes: remember reading a magazine road test on them when they were new - and the article was pointing out how they were driving it - and thought the traction control was unbelievably intrusive and too quick to cut in - they thought - then they turned it off and discovered that it needed to be because the cars overall grip levels weren't great.
Not sure what the new Santa Fe is like though - probably average as has being the Santa Fe norm since around 2001.
Probably buying Hyundai on price - I will say this and I will say this only once - I would love to see what the actual price difference between an i40 and a 320d/A4 2.0 tdi (177 bhp) actually would be when police discounts are factored in.
Could easily see the dopey civil servants over here paying the same price for a Hyundai excluding VRT as the UK police would pay for a BMW 320d or an Audi A4 Quattro - or indeed my fave Focus ST estate
Can't they not get some proper cars in - Focus ST estate is what id like to see
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Old diesel wrote: »Hyundai i40s - are they even up to the job :rolleyes: remember reading a magazine road test on them when they were new - and the article was pointing out how they were driving it - and thought the traction control was unbelievably intrusive and too quick to cut in - they thought - then they turned it off and discovered that it needed to be because the cars overall grip levels weren't great.
Not sure what the new Santa Fe is like though - probably average as has being the Santa Fe norm since around 2001.
Probably buying Hyundai on price - I will say this and I will say this only once - I would love to see what the actual price difference between an i40 and a 320d/A4 2.0 tdi (177 bhp) actually would be when police discounts are factored in.
Could easily see the dopey civil servants over here paying the same price for a Hyundai excluding VRT as the UK police would pay for a BMW 320d or an Audi A4 Quattro - or indeed my fave Focus ST estate
Can't they not get some proper cars in - Focus ST estate is what id like to see
Mileage limit is the main thing on the new cars ford won't give over 300,000 km grounding limit, I heard they offered higher on the cars0 -
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Mileage limit is the main thing on the new cars ford won't give over 300,000 km grounding limit, I heard they offered higher on the cars
So essentially they are saying that 187,500 miles is not a sufficient lifespan for a garda car.
What are Hyundai offering in terms of a mileage limit
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Surely going past 300,000 on any saloon or estate is far too much when its being used 24/7 as a garda car.
So really there only concern is how much mileage they will get out of a hard driven garda car.
I imagine that in order for the Hyundai to make sense purely on mileage limit - the limit on the Hyundai would have to be 250,000 miles plus
That's far too high for a garda car - and I have visions of some bright spark authorising 8 grand worth of repair work :rolleyes: on a Hyundai i40 at 185,000 miles - because they need to keep garda car numbers up.
Rather then putting the 8 grand towards the replacement car that really should be bought.
I wonder is it the case that the Ford 300,000 mile figure is actually the correct figure for a normal car (not just fords) from a safety/reliability viewpoint - and Hyundai are deliberately pushing the mileage limit higher then it should be - just to win the business.
I mean in reality - I cant see how a Mondeo wouldn't do the same ultimate mileage as an i40.
Would love to see what mileage limits BMW, Audi and Merc would come back with - just for the craic.
Would love to know what extra durability Hyundai can demonstrate on the i40 to justify a higher mileage limit.0 -
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Mister Jingles wrote: »All diesel I'd imagine ?
Suppose this is how they'll look bar the writing.
Honestly I like them battenburg up I understand the deal for all diesel0 -
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Mister Jingles wrote: »The i40 does however come with decent powered petrol engines.
They do have petrol engines in other markets - think theres a 1.8/2.0 direct injection or some such thing.
Know very little about it because although a car enthusiast - I promptly lost interest in the i40 when the only engine available here was a 1.7 diesel.
I mean look at the size of the car :rolleyes:, I know that's as much down to the marketing approach in Ireland - all diesel.
But mother of god - 12.6 seconds 0 to 60 - hopeless for 999 response - I think anyway.
Especially when there are other options there - and no I don't mean ST Focus estates or 530ds or 3.0 tdi A6s.
Even looking at VAG group - Skodas for example - gives you options.
VAG tend to have a very wide range of cars - with the option to tool up for practically every operational requirement.
This business of even dealing with manufacturers who cant meet all requirements (Toyota and Hyundai) is a bit nonsense imo.
Would still love to know how the i40 can deliver a higher mileage limit compared to the Mondeos or (presumably) other cars that could be bought.
Personally in the absence of evidence to the contrary - I would be of the view that Hyundai - have probably pushed the mileage limits up - to win business.
However - im happy to be very much proven wrong - and if the i40 is genuinely capable of 200,000 miles plus trouble free operation in Garda use - it would make a fantastic car for normal private motorists - inspite of whatever limitations it has in performance and roadholding for garda use.
Probably not neccessarly a disaster though once we don't start seeing them being used for traffic
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Still think at the moment theres better options out there - if you won't have Audi or BMW due to servicing and/or purchasing costs theres also stuff like the Vrs from Skoda.
And I imagine the new 177 2.0 tdi in a Passat should move well too - and they do a very nice 160 bhp 1.8 tsi (8.6 secs 0 to 60 in a Passat from memory).
Like I say - theres other options to consider - I think0 -
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Sgt. Bilko 09 wrote: »In the UK they made a sizeable contract and order from Hyundai for the fuel capacity (diesel), road performance and reliability.
Forces throughout the UK are expected to get the Hyundai i20, i30, ix35, i40, Santa Fe and iLoad van. Combined order gives a total 7,440, big difference in the budget and also they have an independent watchdog that makes sure the DOJ spend properly. In bold writing in there contract it stated a 5 YEAR MILEAGE warranty which is what they wanted.
I don't know the mileage warranty was with ford but I think its less than 5 years and opel was less is well.
Over here we go a similar way to the UK except we don't have a watchdog to looking at shatters spending.
If you buy a Hyundai as a normal owner - you do get a 5 year unlimited mileage warranty - as far as I know.
However when you say 5 year mileage warranty for the Uk police contract - surely that's not unlimited mileage on repairs etc.
Surely Hyundai aren't going to do big repairs on a police car at 225,000 miles for free surely.
There is however one key difference between here and Uk - yes both are going Hyundai - the difference though is that in the Uk - if you need a higher performance car - 530d or the like - for certain tasks like traffic - it gets bought - no sweat.
Over here - you could end up with the 1.7 diesel doing traffic corps work just to make up the numbers.
Still can't believe that someone appears to think somewhere along the line that running a hard working garda patrol car past 200,000 miles is a good idea.
Ive a cure for that person though - if they are senior enough to get a company car - then make that company car last until beyond 200,000 miles plus..
Youd have a rethink soon enough then lol.
On a serious note though - I see ex police cars being sold in the Uk - and they often move them on (traffic cars anyhow) at between 100 and 150,000 miles.
Wonder if Hyundai are factoring in the Uk warranty on this basis - ie the car will be long gone before the 5 years are up.
I wonder how many big senior guys in civil service and other parts of the state system - run their company cars (couldn't give a toss about their own private cars) to 200,000 miles plus :rolleyes:.0 -
Old diesel wrote: »
If you buy a Hyundai as a normal owner - you do get a 5 year unlimited mileage warranty - as far as I know.
However when you say 5 year mileage warranty for the Uk police contract - surely that's not unlimited mileage on repairs etc.
Surely Hyundai aren't going to do big repairs on a police car at 225,000 miles for free surely.
There is however one key difference between here and Uk - yes both are going Hyundai - the difference though is that in the Uk - if you need a higher performance car - 530d or the like - for certain tasks like traffic - it gets bought - no sweat.
Over here - you could end up with the 1.7 diesel doing traffic corps work just to make up the numbers.
Still can't believe that someone appears to think somewhere along the line that running a hard working garda patrol car past 200,000 miles is a good idea.
Ive a cure for that person though - if they are senior enough to get a company car - then make that company car last until beyond 200,000 miles plus..
Youd have a rethink soon enough then lol.
On a serious note though - I see ex police cars being sold in the Uk - and they often move them on (traffic cars anyhow) at between 100 and 150,000 miles.
Wonder if Hyundai are factoring in the Uk warranty on this basis - ie the car will be long gone before the 5 years are up.
I wonder how many big senior guys in civil service and other parts of the state system - run their company cars (couldn't give a toss about their own private cars) to 200,000 miles plus :rolleyes:.
I think its more of a corporate contract other that personal contract so id imagine Hyundai will probably get their moneys worth from the contract because of amount of patrol cars been purchased.
If management seen how good the Volvos are running they should go with them because they're a excellent patrol car in terms of speed, endurance, terrain, size. And Volvo are contracts are not that expensive your getting value for money and most importantly they can be adapted in a purpose built patrol car and they're diesel.
yes, im sure if you let the state owned mercedes run passed 200k you'll see him/her in a new one sharpish. in fact if it hit one of our tax paying pot holes they'd have there car replaced(after they claim damages) but that's a class problem which they like to keep reminding us of. 0 -
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Old diesel wrote: »
Could easily see the dopey civil servants over here paying the same price for a Hyundai excluding VRT as the UK police would pay for a BMW 320d or an Audi A4 Quattro - or indeed my fave Focus ST estate
Can't they not get some proper cars in - Focus ST estate is what id like to see
Civil servants making those decisions are alot more experienced in fleet management and budget control and no where near as dopey as you might think 0 -
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Old diesel wrote: »They do have petrol engines in other markets - think theres a 1.8/2.0 direct injection or some such thing.
Know very little about it because although a car enthusiast - I promptly lost interest in the i40 when the only engine available here was a 1.7 diesel.
I mean look at the size of the car :rolleyes:, I know that's as much down to the marketing approach in Ireland - all diesel.
But mother of god - 12.6 seconds 0 to 60 - hopeless for 999 response - I think anyway.
Especially when there are other options there - and no I don't mean ST Focus estates or 530ds or 3.0 tdi A6s.
Even looking at VAG group - Skodas for example - gives you options.
VAG tend to have a very wide range of cars - with the option to tool up for practically every operational requirement.
This business of even dealing with manufacturers who cant meet all requirements (Toyota and Hyundai) is a bit nonsense imo.
Would still love to know how the i40 can deliver a higher mileage limit compared to the Mondeos or (presumably) other cars that could be bought.
Personally in the absence of evidence to the contrary - I would be of the view that Hyundai - have probably pushed the mileage limits up - to win business.
However - im happy to be very much proven wrong - and if the i40 is genuinely capable of 200,000 miles plus trouble free operation in Garda use - it would make a fantastic car for normal private motorists - inspite of whatever limitations it has in performance and roadholding for garda use.
Probably not neccessarly a disaster though once we don't start seeing them being used for traffic.
Still think at the moment theres better options out there - if you won't have Audi or BMW due to servicing and/or purchasing costs theres also stuff like the Vrs from Skoda.
And I imagine the new 177 2.0 tdi in a Passat should move well too - and they do a very nice 160 bhp 1.8 tsi (8.6 secs 0 to 60 in a Passat from memory).
Like I say - theres other options to consider - I think
The thing is, if VAG don't supply cars for the tender process then it doesn't matter what anybody thinks because they cannot be considered.0 -
Civil servants making those decisions are alot more experienced in fleet management and budget control and no where near as dopey as you might think
Yeah - that may have being a bit harsh - but ive heard elsewhere that the uk boys get decent discounts on BMWs and Audis and the like for Uk police use.
And knowing how the irish state normally does things - its hard not to have visions of an Audi A4 Quattro being sold to the Uk police for what the Gardaí would pay for an Avensis 2.0 D4D.
But I accept the point that theres people in the system that are experienced and know their job well - so will accept my humble pie with good grace - and admit that I was wrong.0 -
AGS are being spoiled with their new fleet announcements
Worth highlighting how bad things are in the world of FIRE.
No new fire engines announced in 2012
No new fire engines announced in 2013
Indications are that there may be 5 new fire engines announced in 2014 but not confirmed.
There are approximately 300 frontline fire engines in the country. There are currently vehicles in frontline service which are 20 years old. There needs to be 20-25 new vehicles announced every year to keep the fleet in a reasonable condition but we are falling well short of that.
Maybe if AGS don't want the Hyundais FIRE could take them, put a few fire extinguishers in the boot, a ladder on the roof and hey presto.......
Only a matter of time before something happens which causes harm to somebody0 -
AGS are being spoiled with their new fleet announcements
Worth highlighting how bad things are in the world of FIRE.
No new fire engines announced in 2012
No new fire engines announced in 2013
Indications are that there may be 5 new fire engines announced in 2014 but not confirmed.
There are approximately 300 frontline fire engines in the country. There are currently vehicles in frontline service which are 20 years old. There needs to be 20-25 new vehicles announced every year to keep the fleet in a reasonable condition but we are falling well short of that.
Maybe if AGS don't want the Hyundais FIRE could take them, put a few fire extinguishers in the boot, a ladder on the roof and hey presto.......
Only a matter of time before something happens which causes harm to somebody
Ouch that's seriously not good - youd think the high bosses would be learning their lessons after the Wicklow tragedy.0 -
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AGS are being spoiled with their new fleet announcements
Worth highlighting how bad things are in the world of FIRE.
No new fire engines announced in 2012
No new fire engines announced in 2013
Indications are that there may be 5 new fire engines announced in 2014 but not confirmed.
There are approximately 300 frontline fire engines in the country. There are currently vehicles in frontline service which are 20 years old. There needs to be 20-25 new vehicles announced every year to keep the fleet in a reasonable condition but we are falling well short of that.
Maybe if AGS don't want the Hyundais FIRE could take them, put a few fire extinguishers in the boot, a ladder on the roof and hey presto.......
Only a matter of time before something happens which causes harm to somebody
DFB http://d121tcdkpp02p4.cloudfront.net/clim/161261/D22-6x-1382049341.jpg
Mayo Fire Service http://d121tcdkpp02p4.cloudfront.net/clim/161261/131-MO-1371862439.jpg
Galway Fire Service http://d121tcdkpp02p4.cloudfront.net/clim/161261/532795-512779138784193-741849706-n-1366295088.jpg
Just three examples of appliance bought this year0 -
DFB http://d121tcdkpp02p4.cloudfront.net/clim/161261/D22-6x-1382049341.jpg
Mayo Fire Service http://d121tcdkpp02p4.cloudfront.net/clim/161261/131-MO-1371862439.jpg
Galway Fire Service http://d121tcdkpp02p4.cloudfront.net/clim/161261/532795-512779138784193-741849706-n-1366295088.jpg
Just three examples of appliance bought this year
Not sure what the purpose of the pics is but those pics are for vehicles which were announced in June 2011. Unlike a standard car, which is what the bulk of AGS vehicles are, a fire engine has to be made from scratch. From the time the relevant minister makes his announcement, it can take anything from 18 - 24 months for a fire appliance to be delivered.
The announcement is the first stage of the process, then there has to be tenders advertised, tenders evaluated, preferred supplier advertised, time allowed for decision to be appealed, time for design to be finalised, chassis order, build time, etc, etc.
With no new vehicles announced in 2012 and 2013, as per my post, there will be no deliveries following on from these years.
Hope this helps explain how bad things really are in FIRE. The reg numbers can be very misleading when the background information is not understood 0 -
AGS are being spoiled with their new fleet announcements
Worth highlighting how bad things are in the world of FIRE.
No new fire engines announced in 2012
No new fire engines announced in 2013
Indications are that there may be 5 new fire engines announced in 2014 but not confirmed.
There are approximately 300 frontline fire engines in the country. There are currently vehicles in frontline service which are 20 years old. There needs to be 20-25 new vehicles announced every year to keep the fleet in a reasonable condition but we are falling well short of that.
Maybe if AGS don't want the Hyundais FIRE could take them, put a few fire extinguishers in the boot, a ladder on the roof and hey presto.......
Only a matter of time before something happens which causes harm to somebody
Yes I agree there is need for investment in the fire service fleet. The AGS cars can be on the roads over 20 hours a day everywhere day, they spend more time on the road than off that's why there needed investment in the AGS fleet. Fire services buys in used fleet where the AGS can't be purchased used.0 -
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Yes I agree there is need for investment in the fire service fleet. The AGS cars can be on the roads over 20 hours a day everywhere day, they spend more time on the road than off that's why there needed investment in the AGS fleet. Fire services buys in used fleet where the AGS can't be purchased used.
Agree with you.
Don't get me wrong. I am not knocking the AGS fleet approval. It is clear to see that it is very much needed. I am just highlighting that FIRE is suffering and with no approvals since 2011 we are going to find ourselves in a lot of trouble very quickly.
Big problem with buying in used fleet from the UK is that there is very little life left in them. Uk FIRE used to dispose of their vehicles after 10 years but with their own cuts that has now moved out to 12 - 14 years. at this stage there is very little life left in them. I am aware of 6 vehicles alone which were bought from UK FIRE and scrapped after 2 years in service here. We are also competing with other 3rd world countries for these cheaper vehicles.
Of all the frontline services, FIRE seems to end up worse off which is, in my opinion, because we are part of Local Government and not part of a national service.0 -
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Agree with you.
Don't get me wrong. I am not knocking the AGS fleet approval. It is clear to see that it is very much needed. I am just highlighting that FIRE is suffering and with no approvals since 2011 we are going to find ourselves in a lot of trouble very quickly.
Big problem with buying in used fleet from the UK is that there is very little life left in them. Uk FIRE used to dispose of their vehicles after 10 years but with their own cuts that has now moved out to 12 - 14 years. at this stage there is very little life left in them. I am aware of 6 vehicles alone which were bought from UK FIRE and scrapped after 2 years in service here. We are also competing with other 3rd world countries for these cheaper vehicles.
Of all the frontline services, FIRE seems to end up worse off which is, in my opinion, because we are part of Local Government and not part of a national service.
I would have thought that, given that fire trucks are built on a chassis designed to pull freight ten hours a day, the overall wear on them is quite little. A police car is designed to do maybe two hours work a day and sit in the driveway / car park for 22 hours but ends up on the road for 22.
The refresh rate can't be compared.0 -
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