The Corrib Tape

Seth Brundle · 05-04-2011 11:04pm

Contra Proferentem wrote: »

I guess it comes down to being more careful in the environment you speak in, at the moment for instance using a public computer, there's a team of techies sniffing what I post.

Why would it occur to someone to use rape as a means of threat - even as a joke?

ifiwasonlyrich wrote: »

I agree with ye all. Although, you'll get the feminist screaming "you can't joke about rape", and granted, no you can't, but not in the context they were saying. Due to all the genuine corrupt members of policing, I think the lads did as is, a joke, and made in jest, would they have pursued in raping the woman?! Hell no!
I did have to snigger myself a bit when I read the transcript "Will ya be me friend on facebook"......

Whatever about Facebook, its pretty perverse for it to occur to a friend or colleague to rape someone.
I'll be the first to say that some young one is a ride or whatever. It wouldn't occur to me to have a joke with the lads about raping her though.

gbee wrote: »

Listen again. A comment comes up about being deported. Then 'and raped' and afer this the male locker room banter began.

At no stage was rape threatened or taken seriously.

Maybe thats actually a problem within?

Just out of curiosity, how many female gardai would make the same joke?
Also, how many women who have been raped and were not sure if they had the courage to come forwards, won't now? Do you have to think about the number and if so what does that say?

05-04-2011 11:11pm

pokerface_me wrote: »

Lads there is joking and joking. Rape is not funny. If one of you members here overheard me joking with a mate in a private conversation, ahh i think i'll rape that ban-Garda over there hahaha.

Wouldn't think you Guys would find it so funny all of a sudden. I'd imagine i be on the recieving end of a trip to the local barracks and a fairly sharp court apperence with God knows what charge.

That's a good point. I have a fairly sick sense of humour but the context they used the rape term in was not at all funny. Take your name and address and rape you, deport and rape you. WTF

, it's not even remotely funny. The fact that two or three Gardai laughed at it along with the lad who said it is fairly shocking. Can't really understand anyone standing up for these mongs or trying to explain it as a bit of crack either. Sick f**kers.

Ban or delete as ye feel fit.

fatalll · 05-04-2011 11:23pm

Ok. what they said is wrong. I dont think they meant it they were joking
As someone said in the posts earlier, We have all said at one stage or another "I will kill him/her" be it their boss , mother, father, brother etc.

I dont agree with what they said, their families and them will have already paid for it im sure.

Leave the Gardai deal with it internally.

Martin Ferris should not be throwing stones in the Dail either.

05-04-2011 11:26pm

fatalll wrote: »

Leave the Gardai deal with it internally.

No one is suggesting a lynch mob, it's a thread on a forum ffs, I don't think AGS give two sh1ts what's said on here really.

um7y1h83ge06nx · 05-04-2011 11:27pm

I support the Gardaí in general.

If I had my way I'd resurrect Commissioner O'Duffy and put him at the helm once again. I'd make Kevin O'Higgins or Pat "Concrete" Cooney your Minister and really put it up to the scum.

However, there is no way I can support those Gardaí or people that attempt to support them.

Why? Well here's what I said elsewhere:

Firstly, joking about rape is not funny of course (!). Secondly they are member's of our state's police force and should not be joking about a very serious criminal act. It's not going to make it any easier for rape victims to report their ordeal to the Gardaí when they read and hear about this. Unbelievable on every level.

None of my friends have ever cracked a rape "joke" behind closed doors to me and I would think less of them if they did.

This is the kind of crap any decent Irish male would want to distance themselves from, serious idiots these guys.

They're pretty screwed though, no one will want to defend these guys even their union (the GRA).

Another thing. Can you imagine the field day scumbags will have with this. Do you seriously not think some thug won't shout at Gardaí something along the lines of "What are you going to do guard, f**king rape me?!". Playing into people's hands like that is never smart. And I won't even start about the political wing of an organisation that brutally murdered one of your colleagues (my mistake, more than one unfortunately), they're probably laughing like hyenas tonight.

I bow out and leave people to their opinions whatever they may be.

Terrontress · 05-04-2011 11:40pm

Sometimes if you don't laugh, you'll cry.

I think Gardaí might be desensitised to rape by this stage, having come upon it so often.

There was a thread upon the Emergency Services board where a self-identifying member of AGS, and, if my memory serves me correctly, boards moderator at the time, stated that in their station they use the words "hairy ape" as a rhyming slang / euphamism for rape.

I'd imagine that this sort of behaviour is commonplace and this happens to be the time they got caught out.

But if you have dealt with several rapes over your career, are you going to treat the issue with the same gravity as someone who has no experience of it whatsoever?

ScareGilly · 05-04-2011 11:56pm

Beruthiel wrote: »

As a Garda, in uniform, doing your job, comments about rape, even to another colleague just aren't funny and completely inappropriate.
I fail to see how you have to be a feminist to understand that fact.

Well.. I've heard plenty of jokes about rape.. And you mighn't have found it funny, but who's to say the rest of the gardai in the car shouldn't have. Everyone is surely entitled to their own sense of humour, I've always been of the belief; If you can talk about it, you can joke about it. This was a private conversation between the gardai.

Sure, they were made in what they thought was a private conversation, that doesn't stop the joke from being completely inappropriate.

Completely inappropriate to you. To many people, this has been blown way out of proportion by a couple of idiots in the media. If you were to conduct a nationwide poll of everybody in Ireland, I would guess at least 70% would agree that the guards shouldn't be punished for what was said between mates in confidence.

vetstu wrote: »

What would happen if someone told a bangarda that they were going to rape her?
I'd say it would not be regarded as a throwaway comment.

If they were walking down the street, where the bangarda(Isn't that an illegal term or something now? PC gone mad again) was out of earshot and one fella said to his mate "Jesus, look at the arse on her, I'd rape her.." I'm pretty sure the garda wouldn't do anything, unless they were being recorded, and even then, I'm pretty sure they wouldn't be able to do anything.

CarMuppet wrote: »

Regardless of profession to joke about rape is horrible. I would not these guys working in my locality tbh.

I'm also very scared that a lot of lads here think it's ok too. I've been around the planet in many roles.... The only people I found to joke about rape were very dodgy people indeed.

Job stress is not an excuse. Stress is curable. See a councillor.

I can safely say that 80% of my male friends have joked about rape in one way or another, and at least 30% of my female friends. Imo, If you can take it seriously, you can laugh about it.

LeixlipRed wrote: »

Whenever the boys in blue surpass themselves in the public eye one can always be guaranteed giggles in this forum. Sure, they were only a bit stressed. Mistreating women and protestors is tough work!

More stress relief here

Having watched that video, I've seen hardly any garda violence, and the garda violence I saw in it, was completely justified. What I did see, was numerous people being arrested, attempting to damage private property, 'obstructing the peace', resisting arrest, and harassing the gardai. Go take your stupid propaganda elsewhere.

parsi · 06-04-2011 12:04am

eroo wrote: »

I suppose everyone is glad to point out the faults these Gardai had in their private conversation?

Yet you will gladly sweep all of their good deeds under the carpet? Such as arresting the sort of people you would walk across the street to avoid; dealing with road accidents that would lead most to sleep with the light on; getting assaulted in the course of their duties; bringing cases before a system that favours the criminal... I could go on, but I wont. Because most of you wont care.

I, for one, hope those members are not scapegoated to appease the protesters in Mayo(who aren't from Mayo strangely).

What do you mean ?

Is it that everything dodgy should be excused because someday someone somewhere may need a Guard to carry out his duty ? Is this a subtle threat - dont criticise us or we mightn't be there when we are supposed to be ?

This is like the crap of someone getting off from the courts because his TD , his union and his mammy says that he was really nice to people most of the time.

angelfire9 · 06-04-2011 12:55am

Personally my first instinct when I heard about this was "bloody idiots"

I'm sure alot of serving members on here though will agree with me when I say alot of AGS members have what some might describe as "a sick sense of humour" also known as "gallows humour"
Dealing with death and violent crime on a regular basis can desensitize a person

I've heard some pretty weird comments from Gardai in what I found to be unfunny circumstances but they sometimes have to laugh or else they'd cry

The night my house burnt down I overheard two banners describingwhat they would like to do with two of the firemen in attendance suffice it to say handcuffs were mentioned

It was NOT a funny situation for me personally but they were having a laugh amongst themselves and I wasn't offended

Maybe I've spent too much time around cops but think this is being blown out of all proportion

parsi · 06-04-2011 1:02am

Of course it is . Why should we expect the guardians of the peace to treat crimes serioulsy if really they are just a joke.

Over the last few months we've had criminal cases where guards gave secrets to terrorists, have been convicted of sexual offences and just last week there's a guard who has been involved with an under-age male.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/underagesex-probe-garda-suspended-2590574.html

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes ?

06-04-2011 1:06am

RoverJames wrote: »

That's a good point. I have a fairly sick sense of humour but the context they used the rape term in was not at all funny. Take your name and address and rape you, deport and rape you. WTF , it's not even remotely funny. The fact that two or three Gardai laughed at it along with the lad who said it is fairly shocking. Can't really understand anyone standing up for these mongs or trying to explain it as a bit of crack either. Sick f**kers.

Ban or delete as ye feel fit.

I agree, anyone can make a stupid and sick comment.

But for all Gardai present in the car, including a superior, to jump on the rape joke without missing a beat is shocking.

06-04-2011 1:08am

Spacedog wrote: »

Public Order Act specifies that a Garda believes someone has committed an offence, they can ask their name and address, and arrest them if they believe they are not telling the truth?

The girl wouldn't giver her name, was clearly familiar with another woman at the scene who was getting arrested by AGS at the time, was uncooperative and, from the looks of the video, tried to push past Gardaì to her friend, who she claimed was unsafe.

I'd say that's reason enough.

I don't believe either of the ladies involved reported Gardaì or complained, so I'd assume they agree that they weren't arrested unlawfully.

challengemaster · 06-04-2011 5:06am

First to state I've no experience with these laws, I've no qualifications in Irish law, this is just from looking at the video evidence and applying the laws and what I know and can readily find out about them, so don't take things too much to heart if I'm wrong here...

Deleted User wrote: »

The girl wouldn't giver her name, was clearly familiar with another woman at the scene who was getting arrested by AGS at the time, was uncooperative and, from the looks of the video, tried to push past Gardaì to her friend, who she claimed was unsafe.

I'd say that's reason enough.

I don't believe either of the ladies involved reported Gardaì or complained, so I'd assume they agree that they weren't arrested unlawfully.

CRIMINAL JUSTICE (PUBLIC ORDER) ACT, 1994, Section 24.

24.—(1) Where a member of the Garda Siochana finds any person committing an offence under a relevant provision, the member may arrest such person without warrant.

(2) Where a member of the Garda Siochana is of the opinion that an offence has been committed under a relevant provision, the member may—
( a ) demand the name and address of any person whom the member suspects, with reasonable cause, has committed, or whom the member finds committing, such an offence, and
( b ) arrest without warrant any such person who fails or refuses to give his name and address when demanded, or gives a name or address which the member has reasonable grounds for believing is false or misleading.

(3) Any person who fails or refuses to give his name and address when demanded by virtue of subsection (2), or gives a name or address when so demanded which is false or misleading, shall be guilty of an offence.

There's the part of the Public Order act that allows Gardaí to ask for a name and address.

Without invoking this part of the Public order act, a Garda has no right to ask for a name and address - as a right to privicy is provided for in Article 40.3 of the Irish constitution.

Even if a Garda invokes the Public Order Act, he cannot demand your name and address unless he is of the opinion that you have committed an offence under that act.

AFAIK, To invoke the Public order act, You must also be informed first that you are committing an offence relative to the Public order act. As in, a garda cannot just invoke the Public order act for no reason, you must be committing an offence relative to that act, and you must be informed of that offence relative to the act.

I assume in this case, the offence was either "willful obstruction" or "trespass", however from the video footage, neither was mentioned, nor was there any mention of why the Public order act was being invoked. These may have been prior to the video, but I cannot comment on what I have no proof of. As such, and without any knowledge of the moments prior to the video, It seems like the gardaí bullying the person in an attempt to get details.

Also, Gardaí should at all times treat you with respect. They should not have any physical contact with you unless they are defending themselves, protecting other people or property or placing you under arrest. At one point ~1:50, just before the camera gets dropped it's quite obvious that the Garda grabs the arm of the person.

To me, it looks like unwarrented physical contact / force was used to restrain the person, as in the video they say multiple times to "let go of me"

It does seem like the bangarda conducted the arrest properly, however, as she does seem to give a reason for arrest and properly cautions the person.

Going by the only evidence that I (and most) have, which is the video, if the Public Order act was not correctally and rightfully invoked, then the arrest under section 24.2(b) was wrongful and charges could be pressed under civil and criminal law for wrongful arrest and false imprisonment. Also I believe that the Garda who used force to restrain the person can be charged with Assault under the Non-Fatal Offences Against the Person Act, 1997 - 2.—(1) A person shall be guilty of the offence of assault who, without lawful excuse, intentionally or recklessly—

(a) directly or indirectly applies force to or causes an impact on the body of another

Locust · 06-04-2011 7:18am

challengemaster wrote: »

First to state I've no experience with these laws

Thanks.
Leave that for the courts...

This 'rape comment' was a throw away comment/laugh between friends/colleagues. Inappropriate - yeah sure - but it was said in a car, in private, and it just happened to be caught on tape. whats the Offence? Whats the crime? Who was the injured party here?

Gardai made an inappropriate remark in the car - NEWSFLASH - geez slow day in the News..
Is all of this media attention just because they have blue shirts and are supposed to be some kind of Batman type characters?!

Traumadoc · 06-04-2011 7:32am

Whatever the reasons for the protest in Mayo, the Gardai are being damaged by their actions.

The banter between guards may have been only that , but it would equally have been critised if it was a group of ambos joking about raping a woman who inappropriately called for an ambulance.

Anything that happens now will be criticised by the media , and unfortunatly the Guards are caught in the middle.

Thoie · 06-04-2011 8:00am

I'm finding the attitudes on this thread nearly as worrying as the original comments. I know the gardaí have a tough job, and need to let off steam/cope with things somehow. I have no sympathy for "professional" protesters who seem to turn up uninvited to cause trouble in other people's communities.

What I'm picking up from here is that if any of the gardaí were in the same situation on duty, and one of their colleagues made an impromptu rape joke, it's OK to not call him/her on it? It's so OK that you can join in? Even if you're in a more senior position?

It would be bad enough if these were call centre staff. Imagine the scenario - after a difficult call with an unreasonable customer, a few people, including a supervisor, are sitting in the canteen, joking about the protocol for starting calls. "Hi, I'm Bob, can I have your name and account number please? Can you verify your address please... and I'll call over and rape you later" I'd expect at the very least someone would change the topic quickly.

For me it's not just the fact that someone made a rape joke out of the blue that's the problem. It's that the other two leapt in to play along. Is there a culture in the gardaí of not disagreeing with a colleague no matter what they're at? That's not a healthy culture in any organisation, and it's particularly worrying in an organisation who find themselves frequently in a position of power over detainees.

MagicSean · 06-04-2011 8:10am

This arguing is a bit futile. I'm sure anyone involved in the emergency services understand why the lads said what they did. And those who have no involvement probably won't. I doubt any amount of discussion will change that.

Traumadoc · 06-04-2011 8:16am

k_mac wrote: »

This arguing is a bit futile. I'm sure anyone involved in the emergency services understand why the lads said what they did. And those who have no involvement probably won't. I doubt any amount of discussion will change that.

I am sure a lot of people involved in the emergency services such as female members will not.

Terrontress · 06-04-2011 8:17am

Locust wrote: »

Thanks.
Leave that for the courts...

This 'rape comment' was a throw away comment/laugh between friends/colleagues. Inappropriate - yeah sure - but it was said in a car, in private, and it just happened to be caught on tape. whats the Offence? Whats the crime? Who was the injured party here?

Gardai made an inappropriate remark in the car - NEWSFLASH - geez slow day in the News..
Is all of this media attention just because they have blue shirts and are supposed to be some kind of Batman type characters?!

Can the inside of a Garda car be described as private?

I think the media attention stems from the fact that rape is, and has been, used throughout the world by police forces and armies as a method of torture and intimidation of dissenters and minorities.

We, in Ireland, are different to those regimes and so to have a Garda joke about rape in the course of his duties is in poor taste.

They've been caught, it's unfortunate, punish them and then let it be a lesson to others to be more careful.

JonJoeDali · 06-04-2011 8:22am

If it was a priest, people would be up in arms and demanding assets be stripped from the church. I expect similar standards from members of the Gardai.

MagicSean · 06-04-2011 8:34am

Traumadoc wrote: »

I am sure a lot of people involved in the emergency services such as female members will not.

And if they can put their hand on their heart and swear they've never said anything wrong or inappropriate while on duty they are probably lying.

Traumadoc · 06-04-2011 9:02am

Ah sure it's only harmless:rolleyes: ....

These guards should not lose their jobs but they should be subject to some retraining - the public confidence in a generally superb force has been eroded.

It should maintain the high regard , be respected but act when it is in danger of losing that respect.

Dermot Illogical · 06-04-2011 10:14am

JonJoeDali wrote: »

If it was a priest, people would be up in arms and demanding assets be stripped from the church. I expect similar standards from members of the Gardai.

A measured and appropriate response indeed.
Anyway, you all seem to have the up in arms bit covered. Let's get started on the asset-stripping. Dibs on the new avensis outside my local station.

Dermot Illogical · 06-04-2011 11:16am

In everyone's rush to hang these lads at the behest of the delighted/offended (delete as appropriate) protesters, you've all assumed that you do know the full context. The assumption has been made that the rape reference came out of the blue. Perhaps it didn't? What if the members policing the protests there are habitually called rapists (among all the other terms of abuse they receive as a matter of course) by hysterical crusties? Then it's a fairly harmless and humorous method of dealing with such abuse once out of the public eye.

CarMuppet · 06-04-2011 12:33pm

RT66 wrote: »

In everyone's rush to hang these lads at the behest of the delighted/offended (delete as appropriate) protesters, you've all assumed that you do know the full context. The assumption has been made that the rape reference came out of the blue. Perhaps it didn't? What if the members policing the protests there are habitually called rapists (among all the other terms of abuse they receive as a matter of course) by hysterical crusties? Then it's a fairly harmless and humorous method of dealing with such abuse once out of the public eye.

I don't want people who think this type of behavior is acceptable working as a member of the AGS in this country. Members (and all other civil servants) are entitled to their opinions on various sections of the community etc. We all hold our own opinions, it's human nature, that’s fine.. but when they are on-duty/working they need to be professional enough to rise-above this type of 'laddish' behavior. These guys were in a state-owned car on duty are in the workplace. It doesn’t matter what names/insualts they were (might have been) called before this incident! They are/were Gardai, they are supposed to be absolute gentlemen/upstanding citizens! Please clarify you point above: are you saying that because they encounter nasty types on regular basis some of these nasty traits rub off??!! I hope not. I doubt it very much. Most of the Gardai I've met on the roads and in sporting/social settings are decent people imo. I don’t like even like categorizing as per my last sentence.. it’s a bit like saying most doctors/firemen/milkmen/builders/pilots are sound. Everyone is different!

As a US multinational employee if I was overheard making reference to raping a female customer/vendor/supplier/colleague that would result in an instant dismissal, and would probably mean the end of my career. It's in our contract and would be classed as ‘sexual harassment’. And I would expect the same terms in the civil service... is this the case?

I don’t’ know what the end result will be, time will tell, but personally, I hold what AGS stand-for in very very high regard. I have 2 relations and 1 friend in the force. I’m proud of our style of policing tbh. There will always be bad apples in all walks of life, it’s a human thing. But, how the senior officers in the force are seen to handle this very disappointing event will set the tone going forward. These guys really need to understand what they have done. Maybe these lads are just not cut-out for the job?

calibelle · 06-04-2011 1:06pm

A couple of Gardai had a stupid conversation believing it to be private and the country is up in arms.
I'm more disgusted about the woman who is using this as publicity for herself. At first she had no comment to make....then suddenly she was upset and shaken!

Seriously can't believe that people can't see that her using rape to get publicity is sickening and much much worse than a stupid thoughtless conversation.

We've all said things we've regretted afterwards but most people would have enough decency not to use it for their own gains.

Spacedog · 06-04-2011 1:07pm

RT66 wrote: »

What if the members policing the protests there are habitually called rapists (among all the other terms of abuse they receive as a matter of course) by hysterical crusties?

what if? so were on a hypethitical here?

seems like after the fact, many of you are trying to convince yourselves into a kind of justification for what was said and done. is this common?

I see potential abuse of power in the arrest of at least 1 woman - something that shell to sea have claimed is commonplace in the past and has been ignored.

I think the gardai here should not be scapegoated / made an example of. but overall the treatment of these feckin crusties needs to be investigated. because from the evedence, their madcap claims just got a whole lot more plausable this week.

hobbitt · 06-04-2011 1:35pm

To quote one officer:

"We didnt have any of them options there today"

Not quite up to Leaving Cert English grammar standards!

Dermot Illogical · 06-04-2011 1:55pm

CarMuppet wrote: »

Please clarify you point above: are you saying that because they encounter nasty types on regular basis some of these nasty traits rub off??!!

No. I thought I made it clear, but here goes again. I'm simply saying that the rape reference may not have come out of the blue (if you'll excuse the pun) and that there may be another context for it.
As an example, when someone calls me a pig I might be distraught & offended and go rushing to the nearest journo in tears - or I might make light of it by imitating a porker. It doesn't mean I'm wandering around with thoughts of swine in my head all day.
Likewise, if protesters were shouting "Murdering scum" at me all day, I might make light of it with my colleagues by joking that I would demand name & address, "or I'll murder you". Tommy Tiernan would have little to worry about, but then neither would the coroner.

All I'm saying is that there *may* be some external context to this that you all don't know about, but to not let that stop you from making Kilimanjaro out of this particular molehill.

CarMuppet · 06-04-2011 2:08pm

RT66 wrote: »

No. I thought I made it clear, but here goes again. I'm simply saying that the rape reference may not have come out of the blue (if you'll excuse the pun) and that there may be another context for it.
As an example, when someone calls me a pig I might be distraught & offended and go rushing to the nearest journo in tears - or I might make light of it by imitating a porker. It doesn't mean I'm wandering around with thoughts of swine in my head all day.
Likewise, if protesters were shouting "Murdering scum" at me all day, I might make light of it with my colleagues by joking that I would demand name & address, "or I'll murder you". Tommy Tiernan would have little to worry about, but then neither would the coroner.

All I'm saying is that there *may* be some external context to this that you all don't know about, but to not let that stop you from making Kilimanjaro out of this particular molehill.

Fair enough.. thanks for reiterating, I understand what you're saying.

As a random member of the public I do think this is a big deal.. sorry, but that's just an opinion.....

I hope it all gets sorted for all concerned asap.

Dermot Illogical · 06-04-2011 2:08pm

Spacedog wrote: »

what if? so were on a hypethitical here?

seems like after the fact, many of you are trying to convince yourselves into a kind of justification for what was said and done. is this common?

I see potential abuse of power in the arrest of at least 1 woman - something that shell to sea have claimed is commonplace in the past and has been ignored.

I think the gardai here should not be scapegoated / made an example of. but overall the treatment of these feckin crusties needs to be investigated. because from the evedence, their madcap claims just got a whole lot more plausable this week.

RoverJames claimed to know the context of the remarks. I made the point that he/she may not know the context. You then quote me out of context, which presumably suits your agenda. I'm just glad to have been of service.

Eru · 06-04-2011 2:16pm

just putting it out there but how would people feel if they turned on the news and saw themselves having a private conversation with a work colleague?

Im not saying I found the conversation funny, I didnt but Gardai are entitled to the same freedom of speech when in private that everyone gets. They should also be entitled to the same due process and presumption of innocence that all other citizens get.

Imagine for a second that a colleague secretely recorded what you believed to be a private conversation and then aired it on national tv in an article already finding you guilty of something thats not actually a crime. Would the boss discipline you or them? Would you apologise or sue?

(FYI: you cant claim that Gardai are in some special role or unique position / situation then in another thread complain that Garda are exempt from the law or should take a pay cut 'like everyone else'. Its one or the other)

My name is URL · 06-04-2011 2:50pm

It's being blown out of all proportion in any case, and that can't be changed now. Did anyone see the headline that the Belfast Telegraph ran with today?

Garda rape probe: Young women tell of terror during arrest

Of course Gardai should be granted the same graces as regular citizens and allowed to exercise free speech but the problem has gone beyond what jokes were made at this stage. It's the reaction to the whole thing that is more damaging. AGS need to act quickly for the simple reason that they need to save face. The guys making the jibes were in uniform and the video managed to make it into the public realm.. it's unfortunate but it's too late to change that now.

The best thing would be for the lads in question to be made to issue a statement of apology and for the Garda Commissioner to reiterate that such behaviour is not seen as acceptable in a professional context within the organisation. The amount of arguing that's taking place over this is pointless, and trying to justify why no action should be taken only exacerbates the whole thing.

Spacedog · 06-04-2011 2:56pm

RT66 wrote: »

RoverJames claimed to know the context of the remarks. I made the point that he/she may not know the context. You then quote me out of context, which presumably suits your agenda. I'm just glad to have been of service.

I'm just responding to the words you said, I don't think that example is a plausable example. I have not seen or heard of protesters falsely calling police rapists to provoke them, and think it would be in extremely bad taste if they did.

I have no sinister agenda, I have formed the opinion that the people protesting the corrib pipeline are decent people, and would be happy to see an independent enquiry into the policing of the situation there. If the protesters are as horrible and abusive as is suggested here, then both you and AGS would also like to be validated by an independent evaluation.

midlandsmissus · 06-04-2011 3:49pm

I read it and thought it was so bizarre, not an average joke, seemed to come out of nowhere. But it makes more sense now. Apparantly the girl didnt want to go in the car with all male officers as she was afraid theyd do something to her, and went in the other car instead. So the converstion is in response to this. Guards who are annoyed at her thinking theyd do something to her. Making fun of her really for thinking something extreme would happen to her, 'we'd arrest her and rape her according to her'.

eroo · 06-04-2011 3:56pm

So while everyone slates the Gardai, why do they not slate the media for their headlines which are ridculously tongue in cheek in regards to what some have deemed a very serious issue?

From Breaking News.ie,

Gardaí to be probed over Corrib rape jibe

Just goes to show how ridiculous this affair is.

mr cowen · 06-04-2011 4:09pm

http://vimeo.com/21952231

Terrontress · 06-04-2011 5:38pm

Eru wrote: »

just putting it out there but how would people feel if they turned on the news and saw themselves having a private conversation with a work colleague?

I'm not sure that a conversation between people paid by the public purse while in a publicly owned car could be classed as private.

What if one of the Gardai present had been offended and had repeated it verbatim to a superior officer? Would that be brushed off as a private conversation as it took place in a car?

06-04-2011 5:57pm

RT66 wrote: »

RoverJames claimed to know the context of the remarks.

Did I?

Iwannahurl · 06-04-2011 6:58pm

GRA does not condone "any conduct or discussion that attacks women or women’s rights".

Gardaí found guilty of any wrongdoing in an alleged rape remarks controversy face the gravest of consequences, rank-and-file leaders have warned.

But the Garda Representative Association (GRA), which speaks for the force grassroots, insisted “due process” must be allowed in two probes into the incident at the Corrib gas project in Co Mayo.

PJ Stone, the GRA general secretary, also stressed allegations that officers joked about raping protesters were no reflection on the force as a whole.

“This incident should be viewed in isolation; it is to be dealt with in a disciplinary context,” he said.

“If the gardai are found guilty of any wrongdoing it carries the gravest of consequences.”

[...]

The force watchdog, the Garda Ombudsman, has also taken the unusual step of launching its own inquiry in the public interest.

Mr Stone said officers do not condone any conduct or discussion that attacks women or women’s rights.

He added: “You can not take from one incident that the entire Garda Siochana is misogynist.

“It has never been appropriate to make suggestive comments about rape; not in 1922 and not now.”

Superintendent Jim Smith, president of the Association of Garda Superintendents (AGS), insisted there would be a speedy outcome to the internal inquiry.

The senior officer also stressed the reported remarks were not reflective of the entire force.

“We would not condone these reported remarks and they are not reflective of the mindset of the Garda Siochana,” he said.

“We deal with these matters in a very professional manner and with compassion and sensitivity.

Micky Dolenz · 06-04-2011 6:58pm

At least the GRA are taking it seriously and not as a joke as some suggest.

Dermot Illogical · 06-04-2011 7:24pm

midlandsmissus wrote: »

I read it and thought it was so bizarre, not an average joke, seemed to come out of nowhere. But it makes more sense now. Apparantly the girl didnt want to go in the car with all male officers as she was afraid theyd do something to her, and went in the other car instead. So the converstion is in response to this. Guards who are annoyed at her thinking theyd do something to her. Making fun of her really for thinking something extreme would happen to her, 'we'd arrest her and rape her according to her'.

That might make sense. Have you seen that published somewhere?

midlandsmissus · 06-04-2011 7:57pm

RT66 wrote: »

That might make sense. Have you seen that published somewhere?

No, sorry should have said its secondhand info and not from any source. It was on the thread in the ladies lounge. A poster read somewhere that the girl hadnt want to get into the car as it was all males, I need to find out if this was said anywhere else.

MagicSean · 06-04-2011 9:58pm

If you look at the full recording it is at the start. The girl keeps saying she is afraid of wht will happen to her friend and she won't let her go alone.

gbee · 07-04-2011 7:37am

k_mac wrote: »

If you look at the full recording it is at the start. The girl keeps saying she is afraid of wht will happen to her friend and she won't let her go alone.

Whilst they [the protesters] got lucky, I think they were deliberately trying to windup the members and plant thought in their heads or the heads and suspicion for anyone watching the tape ~~ UP to the the time the camera was confiscated.

What happened in the car was probably instigated in a thought process, instigated by the protester herself.

I heard the recording on the radio yesterday, instead of my PC and I must say it had a totally different effect and comment that I thought were made by one member were not, IMO no thought of any action was on the minds of these members, even when joking about it.

um7y1h83ge06nx · 07-04-2011 8:38am

gbee wrote: »

What happened in the car was probably instigated in a thought process, instigated by the protester herself.

"Your honour I'm not guilty of shooting Mr. X dead, he is the guilty party. What happened was instigated in a thought process which was instigated by Mr. X himself. Booyah.".

On a more serious note, I wonder are the likes of Eirigi and the 32 County Sovereignty Movement involved in the protests? Those scumbags have had a great time the last few days, celebrating the murder of a police officer north of the border and now this.

CarMuppet · 07-04-2011 8:47am

mr cowen wrote: »

http://vimeo.com/21952231

Assuming this is 'the' actual recording :

To follow up on my comments yesterday, I have to say they sound like a decent bunch of lads. While joking on the subject of 'rape' is not tasteful or funny (imo) I think there was no malice indented when taking the whole conversation in context. In fact prior to the 'joke' they were discussing how to safely convey people down from a tractor. (ignoring the whole Shell debate etc)... These people have the safety of the public in mind. I think these lads have learned a very hard lesson.

Also, after hearing the whole recording, I now think the press have blown this up a bit and the clips in the media don’t really tell the whole story... IMO.

Finnbar01 · 07-04-2011 11:48am

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

At least the GRA are taking it seriously and not as a joke as some suggest.

For the love of sweet jaysus you can't be serious? A few gardaí make a crude joke and 3/4 quarters of the country are up in arms.

Let me ask you this, if you believe that gardaí are not allowed to make jokes in private, how do you enforce it? Monitor their conversations whilst on duty?

MagicSean · 07-04-2011 12:28pm

Finnbar01 wrote: »

For the love of sweet jaysus you can't be serious? A few gardaí make a crude joke and 3/4 quarters of the country are up in arms.

Let me ask you this, if you believe that gardaí are not allowed to make jokes in private, how do you enforce it? Monitor their conversations whilst on duty?

They were on break.

Terrontress · 07-04-2011 12:34pm

Finnbar01 wrote: »

For the love of sweet jaysus you can't be serious? A few gardaí make a crude joke and 3/4 quarters of the country are up in arms.

Let me ask you this, if you believe that gardaí are not allowed to make jokes in private, how do you enforce it? Monitor their conversations whilst on duty?

Once again, they are not 'in privte' while in a public car, being paid from the public purse.

The Corrib Tape

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