Phoenix Park Tunnel open for passengers tomorrow

Judgement Day · 29-10-2014 6:27pm

trellheim wrote: »

And an early morning Dublin-Cork train from Grand Canal Dock, Pearse, Tara and Connolly , have one or two per day. and before people bang on about pathing, it would be perfectly feasible.

Also could be used for spare sets to run long distance outers into Docklands

This sort of thing will never happen as it requires a leap of imagination of which the time markers in CIE/IE are incapable. All their apologists will be along soon to tell you all sorts of technical reasons why it can't be done - such as the toilet rolls have to be changed in Drogheda. :rolleyes:

LXFlyer · 29-10-2014 6:43pm

The NTA have already stated that some local services on the Kildare Line are likely to be rerouted via the tunnel to terminate at Grand Canal Dock after the city centre resignalling project is completed.

end of the road · 29-10-2014 7:47pm

Judgement Day wrote: »

This sort of thing will never happen as it requires a leap of imagination of which the time markers in CIE/IE are incapable. All their apologists will be along soon to tell you all sorts of technical reasons why it can't be done - such as the toilet rolls have to be changed in Drogheda.

or that god forsaken depot out in bally go backwards thats so far out of the way (sorry i mean portlaoise railcare depot)

Grandeeod · 29-10-2014 11:44pm

lxflyer wrote: »

The NTA have already stated that some local services on the Kildare Line are likely to be rerouted via the tunnel to terminate at Grand Canal Dock after the city centre resignalling project is completed.

Hopefully it happens.

Jamie2k9 · 30-10-2014 1:13am

trellheim wrote: »

And an early morning Dublin-Cork train from Grand Canal Dock, Pearse, Tara and Connolly , have one or two per day. and before people bang on about pathing, it would be perfectly feasible.

Also could be used for spare sets to run long distance outers into Docklands

And what is so special about Cork people getting a train to the city center when other Intercity passengers won't. Just because its an expensive service and Cork being the second city doesn't justify it.

If anything Carlow/Athlone commuter services should operate along with the Portlaoise services.

end of the road · 30-10-2014 1:40am

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

And what is so special about Cork people getting a train to the city center when other Intercity passengers won't. Just because its an expensive service and Cork being the second city doesn't justify it.

it absolutely does justify it. cork is the "premium" service in the ROI so it will get special privelages other services won't.

Jamie2k9 · 30-10-2014 1:54am

end of the road wrote: »

it absolutely does justify it. cork is the "premium" service in the ROI so it will get special privelages other services won't.

What's premium about it?

No premium rolling stock
No premium first class service
Unable to support an hourly service any longer (well without taking rolling stock of other routes).

Just because a few more suits travel on it dons't make it any different to any service on the network. The high fares are equivalent to the distance traveled and people who travel on other routes pay more less the same per mile as Cork passengers do.

Its that mindset from IE management which is a major problem and tbh a real reason why all other intercity routes preform poorly in comparison. No willingness to make them work.

end of the road · 30-10-2014 2:15am

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

What's premium about it?

No premium rolling stock
No premium first class service

all down to irish rail. it has specialized rolling stock, which could easily have a small refurbishment to fit such a first class service. but irish rail can't be bothered and weren't in the first place.

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Unable to support an hourly service any longer (well without taking rolling stock of other routes).

since when did it become bi-hourly. they have decided to take stock from the other routes because its much easier to run short multiple unit trains then bother to chase for custom. mind you such stock is been taken from those other routes by being operated on the short distance commuter services they aren't suited to rather then the stock that is, but fat chance of irish rail management realizing that because operational convenience comes before the customer.

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Its the mindset from IE management which is a major problem and tbh a real reason why all other intercity routes preform poorly in comparison.

no, its irish rails mindset and miss management in general thats the reason for that.

Jamie2k9 · 30-10-2014 2:23am

end of the road wrote: »

all down to irish rail. it has specialized rolling stock, which could easily have a small refurbishment to fit such a first class service. but irish rail can't be bothered and weren't in the first place.

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Unable to support an hourly service any longer (well without taking rolling stock of other routes).

since when did it become bi-hourly. they have decided to take stock from the other routes because its much easier to run short multiple unit trains then bother to chase for custom. mind you such stock is been taken from those other routes by being operated on the short distance commuter services they aren't suited to rather then the stock that is, but fat chance of irish rail management realizing that because operational convenience comes before the customer.

no, its irish rails mindset and miss management in general thats the reason for that.

I'm well aware of the ins and outs of it but the fact still remains there is no real justification for this service running to the city center over any other long distance service. It will not increase passengers or revenue for them.

end of the road · 30-10-2014 3:15pm

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

end of the road wrote: »

all down to irish rail. it has specialized rolling stock, which could easily have a small refurbishment to fit such a first class service. but irish rail can't be bothered and weren't in the first place.

I'm well aware of the ins and outs of it but the fact still remains there is no real justification for this service running to the city center over any other long distance service. It will not increase passengers or revenue for them.

how do they know, why don't they try it, then if it doesn't work remove it. they are the only operator on the rail network so its up to them to actually bother to find custom and even try different services out. go on irish rail, be daring for once, yeah i know pigs will fly.

cgcsb · 30-10-2014 6:23pm

end of the road wrote: »

it absolutely does justify it. cork is the "premium" service in the ROI so it will get special privelages other services won't.

Do people commute daily from Cork? probably not. Do people commute from Athlone/Carlow/Portlaoise/Athy etc.? they do indeed in large numbers.

end of the road · 30-10-2014 8:14pm

cgcsb wrote: »

Do people commute daily from Cork? probably not. Do people commute from Athlone/Carlow/Portlaoise/Athy etc.? they do indeed in large numbers.

maybe people do commute from cork.

Jamie2k9 · 30-10-2014 8:17pm

end of the road wrote: »

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

how do they know, why don't they try it, then if it doesn't work remove it. they are the only operator on the rail network so its up to them to actually bother to find custom and even try different services out. go on irish rail, be daring for once, yeah i know pigs will fly.

People are not going to use a train just because it gets them a few km closer to the city and as we frequently see here about how much it already costs to go to Cork are people going to pay another few euro for the pleasure of going underground for a few km into Connolly.

trellheim · 31-10-2014 1:31pm

Wha ?

What a spoiler of an argument . I am talking about putting on a few test intercity trains at a time to see if there is demand, when there are clear outbound paths , for example the 0700 , 1100 outbound. You are going on about commuter trains which is a different pattern of service ( don't get me wrong they're needed too but its a different service plan that just happens to coincide with wanting to run choo choo through the busiest choke points on the network ).

And "suits" need service, both commuter and intercity so I am not sure what your point, without service experimentation we will never know.

And the more convenient the service the more people will use it. I need to go to Cork fairly frequently for business and I would be overjoyed to see an 0700 from GCD to Ceannt. ( Or indeed any train service to Cork from Dublin that got in before 0900 but thats a different argument )

Grandeeod · 31-10-2014 2:03pm

trellheim wrote: »

Wha ?

What a spoiler of an argument . I am talking about putting on a few test intercity trains at a time to see if there is demand, when there are clear outbound paths , for example the 0700 , 1100 outbound. You are going on about commuter trains which is a different pattern of service ( don't get me wrong they're needed too but its a different service plan that just happens to coincide with wanting to run choo choo through the busiest choke points on the network ).

And "suits" need service, both commuter and intercity so I am not sure what your point, without service experimentation we will never know.

And the more convenient the service the more people will use it. I need to go to Cork fairly frequently for business and I would be overjoyed to see an 0700 from GCD to Kent. ( Or indeed any train service to Cork from Dublin that got in before 0900 but thats a different argument )

I agree. GCD to Kent could be worth a punt alright on certain services. Its taken donkeys years to get the powers that be to realise the potential of the PPT regardless of DU. All the crap that was spun has been torn to shreads. All the contradictions from successive CEOs in IE have been exposed.

All it took was a conviction, a few quid for signalling and GCD. Delighted its happening and could never understand all the opposition.

L1011 · 31-10-2014 3:03pm

Ceannt is Galway... Bit out of the way for Cork!

goingnowhere · 31-10-2014 4:26pm

For a start a Mk4 won't fit in Drumcondra, GCD, or Pearse or Tara and only will fit in platforms 2, 4 & 5 in Connolly. There is no way to get around that, would require 1 extra train set to fit in the hourly service.

We would be much better off starting with commuter Hazelhatch - Platform 10 - Drumcondra, Connolly, Tara, Pearse, GCD

trellheim · 31-10-2014 4:38pm

For a start a Mk4 won't fit in Drumcondra, GCD, or Pearse or Tara and only will fit in platforms 2, 4 & 5 in Connolly. There is no way to get around that, would require 1 extra train set to fit in the hourly service.

Right Doesn't have to be a MK4. No problem putting a DMU on it though. Plenty of DMUs going Dublin-Cork runs.

Commuter won't fly without detailed investigation of pathings in the peak, and we'll end up waiting on lots of other improvements. This is something that can be tried immediately. and as I said above - my concept is around avoiding the peak to try.

OK - let's look at commuter pathings. did you read the NTA report - what priorities would you give to get trains through Connolly and across the bridge in the morning peak ?

goingnowhere · 31-10-2014 5:37pm

The third platform in Grand Canal Dock will allow some Maynooth/Drogheda service to terminate in Grand Canal Dock instead of Pearse thus eliminating the delays as trains shunt around currently

The plans are to run some commuter trains around towards Grand Canal Dock from the Kildare route once the signalling is in place.

Net result, no platform is available as it is capacity already allocated in plans for other services

trellheim · 02-11-2014 7:48pm

No. I said ignore pathing problems; this will not get in the way of commuter services. It is down to will to execute and nothing else.

Captain Chaos · 02-11-2014 9:56pm

They can use reduced the size of Mk4s sets anyway. As it is they run in 7 and 8 piece sets to Cork. Not all Mk4 sets are in use every day anyway. Nothing stopping it being a 7 piece plus a 201 will fit in any platform at Connolly except p1 and will fit in Tara, Pearse and GCD just fine.

Phoenix Park Tunnel open for passengers tomorrow

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