Conversation skills

slemons · 09-01-2008 3:41pm #1

Hi,
Apologies if im in the wrong forum.

I've jst recently decided to completely change almost everything in my life. Appearance, fashion, attitude, sense of humour, hobbies, accent, body language, posture, EVERYTHING.

What i was doing before just didnt work. My social circle was small etc. Anyway, enough about me (another one of my things to change)

What i would like to know if there is anyone out there who is interested in conversation skills and how to improve them. Im trying to overcome my phobia of large groups of strangers.

I want to be able to strike up and hold an interesting conversation with anyone, anywhere.
How the hell do i go about this?
Also id like to get into nlp.

Its a very interesting field and im absolutely dead set on following this up.

So help appreciated!
Thanks

slemons · 09-01-2008 3:55pm

Ive read some of Bandlers stuff on nlp and its amazing. Especially the positions of the eye, while thinking. I see proof of it every day in work.

Just now i think i had a very good conversation where previously i would've turned it into a conversation about my expierences.
Eg,
Other Party said "im trying to change my car".

Inside i was dying to mention something about my expierences, that my bro is selling one, that mine was crashed into, a burnout one behind my house last nite etc etc

But i didnt, and asked him what kind of car it was etc etc...

Then he mentioned where he was living, and instead of me giving my expierence, i let him speak on about it.

So all in all a good chat, i didnt give in to my urge to just ignore what the Other Person said, and i got interested in the responses

I realise now that a good conversation has to be "give and take". I cant lead nor can the other part

I find a lot of times when im talking to someone, i dont actually listen to what they say at all and instead im off in my own head thinking up of witty responses.
I do this because i dont want to seem boring. But the way it comes off, i seem like i dont care at all about what people have to say. And thats way worse than boring.

Ideally id like to be "interesting to talk to, and interested in what people have to say"

This might seem like a very trivial thread to some people here, but an awful lot of people have very poor conversational skills. Id going to do something about it!

Oryx · 09-01-2008 4:05pm

If your into life changes and discovering more of what makes you tick, Landmark can be good. Not cheap though. For the record, Ive never done it, I have friends who have.

I was just talking to someone who is taking a residential NLP course in Scotland, so Im sure there are plenty of resources out there if you google.

ballooba · 09-01-2008 4:25pm

Can you recommend a Bandler book?

Lux23 · 09-01-2008 4:50pm

I used to be like this too. I was rubbish at small talk and I hated strangers, now most of the time I am quite comfortable with talking to new people. One trick is to notice something funny or different in your surrondings and then mention it to the person standing next to you. If they are sound, interesting people they should respond well and you can have a bit of chat.

gollem_1975 · 09-01-2008 5:04pm

I think you would benefit from joining toastmasters.

I myself joined a Toastmasters club almost 3 years ago and I feel that it has helped me in some of the areas that the OP has mentioned

please see http://www.toastmasters.org/ for further details.

there is a useful link on the left hand side of the home page which enables you to locate a club in your local area.

slemons · 09-01-2008 5:36pm

Thanks for the link, i'll look into them. Toastmasters looks good!

In terms of Bandlers books, im currently reading Frogs into Princes. It was his first, but apparanetly he best was Using Your brain.
The books are actually transcripts of a live seminar which is strange. Using Your brain takes Frogs into Princes and builds on it. Im not finished Frogs yet. There's a lot of info in it

ballooba · 09-01-2008 5:58pm

I heard about NLP during my masters. I would be interested in reading the books. Should I start with Frogs into princes or skip to Using Your Brain?

alantc · 09-01-2008 6:04pm

Ecstasy and cocaine make people quite talkative. I know people who were very shy before they started taking drugs. After using them for only a short while they realised that it's not that tough talking to people anyway.

gollem_1975 · 09-01-2008 6:22pm

Anyone who is interested in coming along to a Toastmasters meeting in the Dublin North Central area can PM me for further details.

Shelllz · 09-01-2008 7:08pm

Hi

You might want to check out
http://www.newparklifelonglearning.ie/coursesoffered-thursday.html

as they offer an intro course in NLP its on thurs from 7.30- 9.30, just thought it might be of interest!

Shellz

slemons · 11-01-2008 11:26am

I picked up Bandlers "skill of conversation" tapes there the other day. Im sure they're 20 years old or more, but they're very good.
Already im strarting to feel a difference in my conversations with people.

Important things I've noticed are:

1 - Body language and eye contact are key. If you dont look at a person, at ALL times when having a conversation with them, you will quickly lose their interest. A smile, a nod etc at certain times are CRUCIAL. Never look away first (i think - im just learning this so dot take these as gospel)

2 - LISTEN. This is crucial and i just cant do it. I switch off and daydream so often. Or else im in my own head thinking of witty responses. DONT DO THIS. I still havent found how to cure this. If anyone knows please send answers on a postcard

3 - Listen for cue's, facts, numbers. And then ask about them.

4 - When asking a question, try to use HOW or WHY over WHO,WHAT,WHERE, WHEN. The latter four only require one words answers

5 - NEVER INTERRUPT. Pause for 2 seconds before saying something to make sure the other person isnt going to say something. If they do, then great, they are now leading the conversation and you've reached a hook point. If they dont, then also great, proceed with what you were going to say

JC 2K3 · 11-01-2008 9:59pm

alantc wrote: »

Ecstasy and cocaine make people quite talkative. I know people who were very shy before they started taking drugs. After using them for only a short while they realised that it's not that tough talking to people anyway.

Same with alcohol really, though one can get used to the sensation and be equally as quiet while drunk as not drunk, so sometimes a change of recreational drug can be a good thing in terms of overcoming shyness. Though that said, it's probably better to get over your shyness yourself rather than using a drug.

fits · 12-01-2008 1:27pm

What kind of people attend the toastmasters meetings? Is it all third-level educated Irish people? What do you do at them?

Chucky the tree · 12-01-2008 1:51pm

what excactly did you change about your accent?

gollem_1975 · 12-01-2008 8:18pm

fits wrote: »

What kind of people attend the toastmasters meetings? Is it all third-level educated Irish people? What do you do at them?

there are over 90 Toastmasters clubs in Ireland and the membership is varied.

the one common denominator is that the members are all people who at some stage decided to do something positive i.e. join Toastmasters.

having a 3rd level education is not a pre-requisite for membership.

at a typical meeting of my club ( Clontarf Marino Toastmasters ) we will have a topics session in the first half.

A person is assigned the role of Topicsmaster . he or she decides on a list of topics before the meeting.

during the topics session the topicsmaster calls out a topic and up to 3 members of the audience are called upon ( or can volunteer ) to give a response up to 2 minutes in length.

this is an exercise in thinking and speaking on your feet. Its suprising how peoples skills in this area improve over time.

in the second half of the meeting there are 3 to 4 speeches that have been prepared by members .
each speech lasts between 4 to 6 minutes .
after the speeches have been delivered they are all evaluated individually by another member.
evaluations are generally based on the POSE method
Positive , Objective ( as in were the objectives of the speech met ), suggestions ( for improvement ) , Encouragement.

Toastmasters is a supportive environment in which a person can gain self confidence , communication skills and make new friends.

I'd wholeheartedly recommend that you visit a club in your locality. If you visit the toastmaster.org homepage you will note the "Find a club" function on the left hand side.

regards,

Gollem

fits · 13-01-2008 2:07pm

thanks for the info:)
I think its definitely something that would benefit me.

IncredibleHulk · 13-01-2008 3:24pm

Ecstasy and cocaine make people quite talkative.

Bandler would know about that

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Bandler#Corine_Christensen_Case

http://www.geocities.com/bandlertrial/bandler1.html

http://skepdic.com/neurolin.html

I have seen claims he does not really have a phd and is not entitled to use the term doctor. Don't know if true. The eye accesing cues in NLP have been questioned

gollem_1975 · 13-01-2008 8:06pm

IncredibleHulk wrote: »

Bandler would know about that

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Bandler#Corine_Christensen_Case

http://www.geocities.com/bandlertrial/bandler1.html

http://skepdic.com/neurolin.html

I have seen claims he does not really have a phd and is not entitled to use the term doctor. Don't know if true. The eye accesing cues in NLP have been questioned

thanks for the links Hulk. interesting stuff.

I should emphasise that Toastmasters is a voluntary , non-profit organisation and there is no connection between Toastmasters and any of the organisations referred to in the Hulks post.

regards,

Goll.

DublinWriter · 13-01-2008 8:13pm

slemons wrote: »

Ive read some of Bandlers stuff on nlp and its amazing. Especially the positions of the eye, while thinking. I see proof of it every day in work.

Bandler is a genius. I've tried to start threads on here before about NLP and I think you're the only other person here that's even heard of it.

He did a seminar here in Dublin about three years ago. I think you can get the DVD from his website.

As far as NLP is concerned, Bandler isn't the only show in town. His original partner, Grinder, wrote a lot and there are quite a few more modern experts writing a lot about it these days.

I'd be a little concerned that in your particular case that you are trying to change everything all at once. Life doesn't work like that. Sure, you could try to superficially change everything but you'll find yourself snapping back like a piece of elastic after a few months.

IncredibleHulk · 13-01-2008 8:36pm

I should emphasise that Toastmasters is a voluntary , non-profit organisation and there is no connection between Toastmasters and any of the organisations referred to in the Hulks post.

regards,

Goll

Sorry if I inferred there was, didn't mean to

WhiteWashMan · 14-01-2008 5:07am

slemons wrote: »

Hi,
Apologies if im in the wrong forum.

I've jst recently decided to completely change almost everything in my life. Appearance, fashion, attitude, sense of humour, hobbies, accent, body language, posture, EVERYTHING.

What i was doing before just didnt work. My social circle was small etc. Anyway, enough about me (another one of my things to change)

What i would like to know if there is anyone out there who is interested in conversation skills and how to improve them. Im trying to overcome my phobia of large groups of strangers.

I want to be able to strike up and hold an interesting conversation with anyone, anywhere.
How the hell do i go about this?
Also id like to get into nlp.

Its a very interesting field and im absolutely dead set on following this up.

So help appreciated!
Thanks

you need to be a good listener.

slemons · 14-01-2008 9:15am

Thanks man, thats so true. But its easier said than done.
The Bandler tapes are really helping me out.

Im getting much better these days. Practice Practice Practice.
Im going to go to a toastmasters this month too.
Thanks , id never heard of them before

WhiteWashMan · 14-01-2008 9:45am

rubbish, someone says something to you, you listen, and you make coment on what they say. either ask them something else, or tell a story of your own that reflects what was said.

thats a conversation. there is an art, but believe me, you and i dont need to know it.

Toastmasters will tell you how to present, not converse.

Im not sure how you practice conversing.

fits · 14-01-2008 10:42am

WhiteWashMan wrote: »

Toastmasters will tell you how to present, not converse.

Im not sure how you practice conversing.

I think though that toastmasters would get you to think on your feet. A lot of people who feel inadequate in conversation are nervous and panic in group situations. Toastmasters would surely teach you to relax and think at the same time?

slemons · 14-01-2008 11:00am

fits wrote: »

I think though that toastmasters would get you to think on your feet. A lot of people who feel inadequate in conversation are nervous and panic in group situations. Toastmasters would surely teach you to relax and think at the same time?

Yes, exactly. Thats what im after.
As i said im changing everything about my life. And this is one more thing im changing. Im going to make a speech in front of a lot of strangers.

WhiteWashMan, thanks for your input. Someone who is already a great conversationalist, would laugh at some of this stuff. But thats because they already do it all naturally and dont understand that other people cant do this stuff automatically. Its like a maths genius who cant understand how some people have difficulty with algebra...

And then there's nlp. Now thats a whole other kettle of fish.

gollem_1975 · 14-01-2008 12:40pm

WhiteWashMan wrote: »

Toastmasters will tell you how to present, not converse.

Im not sure how you practice conversing.

the objective of Toastmasters is to improve communication skills.

you will be "told" how to present but in my experience there is more to be learnt from "doing" .

there is educational material provided.
upon joining a club ( our membership fee is €60 ) you receive a new members pack containing some educational manuals.
Every member receives a monthly magazine.

From my experience it really is a case of practice makes perfect.

The key to Toastmasters is that it is a supportive environment. Everyone in the club knows how difficult it can be for someone to stand in front of an audience for the first time , or the second time etc... and that person will be encouraged and advised by the other members.

Toastmasters is also about listening. for every speech given at a meeting there is an evaluator. the evaluator is a club member whos role is to listen to the speech and give feedback to the speaker . There is also a general evaluator who has to listen to the evaluators and provide feedback on their evaluations. Listening is an important part of Toastmasters.

Practice conversing : Upon joining any club you will be widening your social circle so you will have ample opportunity to converse with new people.
Some of the best speeches and evaluations take place in the bar afterwards.
As a NEW member of a club the existing members should make a big effort to make you feel welcome.

regards,

Gollem

Conversation skills

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