PC has Piracy Rate of 93-95%

richymcdermott · 22-08-2012 3:33pm #1

That's according to ubisoft , now im no pc gamer though i do dabble into pc gaming now and again but that number ubisoft pulled out seems bit stupid to me

what are your guys thoughts on the matter

they also go on to say F2P is the future

http://ie.ign.com/articles/2012/08/22/ubisoft-pc-has-piracy-rate-of-93-95-f2p-the-future

Dave_The_Sheep · 22-08-2012 3:39pm

Ubisoft are ****ing idiots.

Steam's usage, and the popularity of sites that make getting and playing games easy, without restrictive DRM and a reasonable price structure show that people don't pirate when there's a better alternative.

Maybe if Ubisoft's DRM wasn't so retarded, less people would pirate their games.

ScumLord · 22-08-2012 3:39pm

I can only remember one time I pirated a PC game, it was such a pain in the hole throughout the experience I have no problem paying for PC games.

It's not like PC games are expensive either. I'd use the likes of steam more now if I had a way to pay and don't really have any problems with online distribution other than steam being one of the most expensive places to buy new games.

RolandIRL · 22-08-2012 3:40pm

More like 93-95% of Ubisoft's games are pirated cos of their crappy DRM practices.

With the advent of Steam, where you can get 10 games for €40 during sale time, I doubt the figure is that high for other publishers or indeed for them.

Shiminay · 22-08-2012 3:41pm

I'd love to know what they're basing that on.

tuxy · 22-08-2012 3:45pm

Shiminay wrote: »

I'd love to know what they're basing that on.

My guess would be estimated torrents downloaded vs. actual sales.

Of course a torrent downloaded does not equal a lost sale.

Azza · 22-08-2012 3:46pm

Dave_The_Sheep wrote:

Steam's usage, and the popularity of sites that make getting and playing games easy, without restrictive DRM and a reasonable price structure show that people don't pirate when there's a better alternative.

No it doesn't, piracy is still alive and well regardless of the popularity and success of Steam and other digital distrabutors. Many would be of the opinion that Steams pricing policy is far from reasonable when it comes to new games.

Steam and other digital distrubitors do make getting games very easy but it doesn't offset the massive attraction piracy has of been entirely free and for many pc gamers piracy isn't significantly harder method of obtaining games.

Dave_The_Sheep wrote:

Maybe if Ubisoft's DRM wasn't so retarded, less people would pirate their games

Piracy came before DRM.

degrassinoel · 22-08-2012 3:48pm

Ubisoft could be right about F2P, it does seem to be massive trend these days. Marvel Heroes, and C&C Generals 2 (that was also renamed back to commandandconquer) have gone with a free2play system. Countless others over the years have done this and are making a mint from it. World of Tanks, any mmo that isnt WoW have done it or are in the process of doing it.

by the looks of things, the days of single player games are numbered.

Dave_The_Sheep · 22-08-2012 3:55pm

Azza wrote: »

No it doesn't, piracy is still alive and well regardless of the popularity and success of Steam and other digital distrabutors. Many would be of the opinion that Steams pricing policy is far from reasonable when it comes to new games.

Steam and other digital distrubitors do make getting games very easy but it doesn't offset the massive attraction piracy has of been entirely free and for many pc gamers piracy isn't significantly harder method of obtaining games.

Piracy came before DRM.

Some people will always pirate. The majority (I believe) will pay for services (in this case - games) when it's at a reasonable price, and it's easy to do so. The way to combat piracy isn't DRM or anything like that. You're never going to beat the segement of the population that'll pirate regardless. Best you can do is make things as worthwhile and straightforward for your geniune customers.

As for your last comment, it's true, but I don't see the point. I didn't say DRM causes piracy, I said that if their DRM wasn't so **** and restricted geniune customers, less people would pirate.

Icyseanfitz · 22-08-2012 3:56pm

Shiminay wrote: »

I'd love to know what they're basing that on.

from the looks of it thin air :pac:

gizmo · 22-08-2012 3:58pm

Dave_The_Sheep wrote: »

Steam's usage, and the popularity of sites that make getting and playing games easy, without restrictive DRM and a reasonable price structure show that people don't pirate when there's a better alternative.

Yet despite all of this Portal 2 was the fifth most downloaded game of 2011 on public sites alone.

Dave_The_Sheep wrote: »

Maybe if Ubisoft's DRM wasn't so retarded, less people would pirate their games.

Or maybe their current DRM measures are in place because of these figures?

Not that I agree with said measures of course, on the contrary, I think they're ****ing ridiculous. That being said, I also think that no company should have to sit by and witness those kids of piracy figures while being told to just suck it up. They could always move to Steam in a similar manner to Football Manager but even then you'll have people whining.

As for using these kinds of DRM methods as a justification for piracy, I'll just say what I always do. Vote with your wallet, don't buy it, don't play it and for the love of **** don't go and pirate it as you're just feeding the figures they use to justify putting these measures in place.

Dave_The_Sheep wrote: »

Some people will always pirate. The majority (I believe) will pay for services (in this case - games) when it's at a reasonable price, and it's easy to do so. The way to combat piracy isn't DRM or anything like that. You're never going to beat the segement of the population that'll pirate regardless. Best you can do is make things as worthwhile and straightforward for your geniune customers.

More people downloaded The Witcher 2 on the PC than have bought the entire series on both platforms so far. If that doesn't bum you out then I don't know what would.

Cravez · 22-08-2012 4:01pm

degrassinoel wrote: »

Ubisoft could be right about F2P, it does seem to be massive trend these days. Marvel Heroes, and C&C Generals 2 (that was also renamed back to commandandconquer) have gone with a free2play system. Countless others over the years have done this and are making a mint from it. World of Tanks, any mmo that isnt WoW have done it or are in the process of doing it.

by the looks of things, the days of single player games are numbered.

I wouldn't say Single Player games are numbered, just that online games are changing their structure to replace the 'subscription' model of paying for online games - give people a game Free to Play but with basic features, where additional features can be purchased once off or via online marketplace (items, armours, weapons etc). In a way it does make sense as you are attracting more potential players to play your game and players could end up spending more money per month on extra features or items than a recurring subscription price.

Id be hard pressed to find any F2P game that offers full features or does not have a Marketplace of some kind.

Azza · 22-08-2012 4:05pm

tuxy wrote:

Of course a torrent downloaded does not equal a lost sale.

I don't think they are claiming that. But say they do suffer from a 93-95% piracy rate. If around 7-8% of those who pirated a product purchased it instead, then it would of been a doubling of the sales figures.

Its hard to imagine that at least some of the piracy isn't leading to lost sales. Even a small % would translate to a significant loss of earnings.

gugleguy · 22-08-2012 4:06pm

Yeah, ST Format went on a CRUSADE about it.
Game developers like David Braben were spoke to about it inside this mag with a stern look on his face. I bought Elite 2 legally for ST ( Canon fodder was the last mainstream game available if I can remember)
Oh, how many hours sleep I lost, as an STe owner.
Fat lot good it did.

balkieb2002 · 22-08-2012 4:06pm

Ubisoft's DRM didn't help - being made to stay online to play a single-player was never going to work out - and would have helped increased priacy of Assasins Creed II for example so it becomes more like ACII has Piracy Rate of 93-95%

I'd would also love to see a breakdown on the information they are using to base this on.

Azza · 22-08-2012 4:16pm

balkieb2002 wrote:

Ubisoft's DRM didn't help - being made to stay online to play a single-player was never going to work out - and would have helped increased priacy of Assasins Creed II for example so it becomes more like ACII has Piracy Rate of 93-95%

Any evidence to support that claim?

Ubisofts problem is that they didn't have a game big enough to force the system through like Blizzard did with Diablo 3.

martomcg · 22-08-2012 4:21pm

Eh did anyone actually read the article?

So high are the rates of piracy (5-7%), Ubisoft is actively looking to the F2P model as an important way of making money from the PC market going forward, especially in territories badly affected by piracy.

The OP's title is bull****.

Piracy is claimed here to be only 5-7% which is a realistic estimate, i.e 1 in 10 people download and pirate games.

People can complain all day about how Piracy came first and will always be around, blah, blah, blah.

Prices is what originally pushed people to piracy in the first place. These game companies were making stupid margins on their games. Now with the popularity of DLC content, studios are deliberately giving you only part of the full gaming experience so they can charge you for "extra" content a couple of weeks/months after the games release.

Online passes too are becoming all to common to prevent the sale of used games, practically creating another monopoly on how much studios can charge for their games. I never pirated games before they brought in online passes. I'd just buy it 2nd hand (1st hand if i really wanted it) and play away. Now i have absolutely no moral qualms about pirating at all.

Greed is the only motivator for these games developers and that isn't gonna change anytime soon.

Lone Stone · 22-08-2012 4:28pm

If i own a game on my ps3 say, id probably pirate it if i wanted to get it on the pc aswell but i haven't pirated a game in years its a pain in the arse and i prefer to pay for things.

Although that said i have noticed the massive price hike in pc games, they were always around 30 euro and recently ive noticed them being 50-60 euro :eek: that would definitely have some thing to do with people turning to piracy.

Skerries · 22-08-2012 4:29pm

the article says

Ubisoft's CEO Yves Guillemot has revealed that the percentage of people who pay in free-to-play games is roughly the same as those who buy boxed games (approximately 5-7%)

On PC it's only around five to seven per cent of the players who pay for F2P, but normally on PC it's only about five to seven per cent who pay anyway, the rest is pirated. It's around a 93-95 per cent piracy rate, so it ends up at about the same percentage.

So OP's title is correct

Magill · 22-08-2012 4:29pm

martomcg wrote: »

Eh did anyone actually read the article?

The OP's title is bull****.

Piracy is claimed here to be only 5-7% which is a realistic estimate, i.e 1 in 10 people download and pirate games.

People can complain all day about how Piracy came first and will always be around, blah, blah, blah.

Prices is what originally pushed people to piracy in the first place. These game companies were making stupid margins on their games. Now with the popularity of DLC content, studios are deliberately giving you only part of the full gaming experience so they can charge you for "extra" content a couple of weeks/months after the games release.

Online passes too are becoming all to common to prevent the sale of used games, practically creating another monopoly on how much studios can charge for their games. I never pirated games before they brought in online passes. I'd just buy it 2nd hand (1st hand if i really wanted it) and play away. Now i have absolutely no moral qualms about pirating at all.

Greed is the only motivator for these games developers and that isn't gonna change anytime soon.

you could never trade in PC games to begin with, least i know game up here in newry wouldn't ? Besides, theres no real need to buy second hand games for PC anyway since usually you'd have to be a mug to buy them in the first place since you generally only save 50p or something stupid on a new game. Never understood how the second hand market got so big when they were/are clearly ripping the dick out of everyone that sells/buys 2nd hand games..... hell i got bioshock 2 in GAME for cheaper than they were selling the it 2nd hand...

Obviously for older games that you can't get new anymore... i understand.

Kiith · 22-08-2012 4:31pm

martomcg wrote: »

The OP's title is bull****.

Piracy is claimed here to be only 5-7% which is a realistic estimate, i.e 1 in 10 people download and pirate games.

It says the below further down though.

IGN wrote:

"It's a way to get closer to your customers, to make sure you have a revenue. On PC it's only around five to seven per cent of the players who pay for F2P, but normally on PC it's only about five to seven per cent who pay anyway, the rest is pirated. It's around a 93-95 per cent piracy rate, so it ends up at about the same percentage. The revenue we get from the people who play is more long term, so we can continue to bring content.

While piracy is definitely a massive problem, there's no way it's as high as Ubisoft claim. I don't know what the actual number are, but it's not that high. The problem is that if you give some people the option of getting it for free, they will take it, regardless of who it hurts. That's just people for you. It would be the exact same if it was so easy to pirate games on the consoles.

Unfortunately, as long as people are able to pirate, they will pirate. The only way i can ever see piracy being stopped is by changing the laws in regards to privacy. Not something i want, but if people started getting sued anytime they downloaded something illegally, it would stop (or massively lessen) really fast.

Gizmo wrote:

More people downloaded The Witcher 2 on the PC than have bought the entire series on both platforms so far. If that doesn't bum you out then I don't know what would.

Is that true? If so....**** sake

Dave_The_Sheep · 22-08-2012 4:34pm

gizmo wrote: »

Yet despite all of this Portal 2 was the fifth most downloaded game of 2011 on public sites alone.

More people downloaded The Witcher 2 on the PC than have bought the entire series on both platforms so far. If that doesn't bum you out then I don't know what would.

Not something I was aware of. Guess I'm just speaking for myself and my friends so, fair enough. I used to pirate games a few years back. Then I stopped because I realised that it's not helping and I love games enough to actually contribute financially.

Jesus, people are arseholes.

That said, until someone comes up with a 100% unbeatable way to stop piracy, or stop people playing pirated games (probably impossible), then I would still say the best option isn't to inconvenience paying customers.

ShadowHearth · 22-08-2012 4:40pm

right. starcraft 2 sold 4.5 million copies at 2010, so by now it is way more then 5mil, but lets have it 5 mil as a round number.

so if 5 mill sold is that 5% that was sold, then 100% of all playing gamers is?

*doing some basic calculations

so according ubisoft if there is in the market legal and non legal 100.000.000 (100mil )copies of SC2... :pac:

Azza · 22-08-2012 4:46pm

Ubisoft where speaking about there own piracy rates not Blizzards. I can't see any of there games selling 5 million on PC.

Incidently Crytek claimed a piracy rate of between 15-20 times the number of sales of Crysis 1 on PC.

The creators of World of Goo claimed a piracy rate of 90%

Varik · 22-08-2012 7:13pm

Azza wrote: »

Ubisoft where speaking about there own piracy rates not Blizzards. I can't see any of there games selling 5 million on PC.

Incidently Crytek claimed a piracy rate of between 15-20 times the number of sales of Crysis 1 on PC.

The creators of World of Goo claimed a piracy rate of 90%

Crysis has it's own reasons unique reason for the high rates, many downloaded it to see if it would work before buying ( that was their excuse anyway). I don't believe those who generally say they pirated a game to try it.

I hated Steam when i got half life 2, i spent all Christmas morning and most of the day downloading before i could play it.

Myrddin · 22-08-2012 7:37pm

The same Ubisoft who actually incentivise piracy/cracking, due to their ridiculous DRM? Idiots.

gizmo · 22-08-2012 7:50pm

Varik wrote: »

Crysis has it's own reasons unique reason for the high rates, many downloaded it to see if it would work before buying ( that was their excuse anyway). I don't believe those who generally say they pirated a game to try it.

Crytek released a demo of the game a month before release to avoid this specific scenario.

EnterNow wrote: »

The same Ubisoft who actually incentivise piracy/cracking, due to their ridiculous DRM? Idiots.

I'd wager that their horrific DRM is a result of these figures and not the cause. There's also the fact that Ghost Recon Online, which has been in development for about two years, was a pretty early sign that they were unhappy with the situation and wanted to move into the F2P / piracy free zone.

Azza · 22-08-2012 7:52pm

EnterNow wrote:

The same Ubisoft who actually incentivise piracy/cracking, due to their ridiculous DRM? Idiots.

The pirates don't need incentives to pirates game. They will do in droves with or without DRM.

Nody · 22-08-2012 8:09pm

Azza wrote: »

The pirates don't need incentives to pirates game. They will do in droves with or without DRM.

But it does drive buying customers to pirate a copy as well instead of dealing with the DRM being constantly online.

degrassinoel · 22-08-2012 9:17pm

Another reason people obtain pirate copies of games is due to release dates being so far apart from each other. example; game released in USA on Jan 1, doesnt get Austrailian release til March.
That's fairly dramatic i know, it's not usually that long or that bad here in europe, but i feel it needs to be addressed by the publishers.

Other issues like mature ratings and banned games in certain regions would also give rise to people choosing to get a pirate copy.

Of course, that doesnt mean it's all the publishers fault either, it's just part of the problem they are complaining about.

hal9000 · 22-08-2012 9:24pm

ahh ubisoft games, 93-95% style / 7-5% substance

johnny_ultimate · 22-08-2012 11:11pm

I have grown to hate the statement 'a pirated copy is not a lost sale'. There's a small amount of truth in it, but it's such a ludicrous oversimplification of the issue.

hooradiation · 22-08-2012 11:20pm

Dave_The_Sheep wrote: »

That said, until someone comes up with a 100% unbeatable way to stop piracy, or stop people playing pirated games (probably impossible), then I would still say the best option isn't to inconvenience paying customers.

The problem being that conventional internet wisdom (an oxymoron, I know) has decided that "no DRM" is the only possible solution. Based, presumably, on the long and successful history of doing nothing about a problem causing it to simply go away.

Reekwind · 22-08-2012 11:30pm

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

I have grown to hate the statement 'a pirated copy is not a lost sale'. There's a small amount of truth in it, but it's such a ludicrous oversimplification of the issue.

Which is fine given that it's usually proffered in response to that other ludicrous oversimplification: pirating games is theft

gizmo wrote:

I'd wager that their horrific DRM is a result of these figures and not the cause

Why must it me mono-causal?

Either way, their DRM has clearly not deterred pirates while managing to piss off a significant number of customers. It's hard to argue that Ubisoft's DRM has increased the number of people willing to pirate their games. Now they're running from what remains a profitable market because they're terrified of the pirates that they've, at the very least, encouraged. Madness

johnny_ultimate · 22-08-2012 11:33pm

If there was no DRM, you can rest assured people would find another 'excuse' or 'justification' to pirate. Heck, didn't stop the rampant piracy in the good old days of floppy discs and cassettes.

Some possible excuses. Everybody: feel free to use them free of charge!

'The singleplayer is only twenty hours long!'
'There's no multiplayer!'
'The multiplayer is unnecessary!'
'It's not very good, but I had to play it anyway'
'It's just so easy to pirate'
'They put a new feature into this sequel [note: said sequel is to a game that is likely hopelessly outdated]! Insta-fail!'
'I have anti-capitalist ideals. Paying money for games makes you part of the system, man'
'EA / Ubisoft / Valve / 2D Boy are evil and/or racially insensitive!'
'I didn't like a tweet one of the designers made'
'**** you, that's why'

hooradiation · 22-08-2012 11:35pm

Reekwind wrote: »

Which is fine given that it's usually proffered in response to that other ludicrous oversimplification: pirating games is theft

I don't know what term I'd use for being able to fully enjoy a product that is not free without having to pay a penny towards it, but theft is pretty good contender.

Only contender, really.

dloob · 22-08-2012 11:36pm

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

If there was no DRM, you can rest assured people would find another 'excuse' or 'justification' to pirate. Heck, didn't stop the rampant piracy in the good old days of floppy discs and cassettes.

Some possible excuses. Everybody: feel free to use them!

'The singleplayer is only twenty hours long!'
'There's no multiplayer!'
'The multiplayer is unnecessary!'
'It's not very good, but I had to play it anyway'
'It's just so easy to pirate'
'I have anti-capitalist ideals. Paying money for games makes you part of the system, man'
'EA / Ubisoft / Valve / 2D Boy are evil and/or racially insensitive!'
'I didn't like a tweet one of the designers made'
'**** you, that's why'

"I was trying it before I bought it, I just haven't got around to buying it yet"
"I can't afford it so I've no choice but to pirate it"

SeantheMan · 22-08-2012 11:41pm

My Steam account is worth a lot of money.
I never pirate.

But when I purchase a Ubisoft game on steam, and I then get taken to their site and have to register etc etc, They drive me mental.
So the piracy rate is probably in relation to their games and overcoming stupid DRM

I'd like to see the statistics for Half Life : EP2 , or WoW, Starcraft 2, or any of the leading games.

I try to ONLY buy my games through Steam if possible.
I'd also wait for 6 months for a SALE rather than buy an overpriced game on release.

Far Cry 3 is probably the only game they have I would like to buy.

johnny_ultimate · 22-08-2012 11:44pm

dloob wrote: »

"I can't afford it so I've no choice but to pirate it"

No choice? Interesting choice of words. You could wait 'til it's cheaper? Wait until you have the necessary funds? Or you could play something else you could afford? I'm pretty broke at the moment, but options one and two have served me pretty well thus far in supporting the games and developers I am particularly fond of.

Antar Bolaeisk · 22-08-2012 11:49pm

SeantheMan wrote: »

But when I purchase a Ubisoft game on steam, and I then get taken to their site and have to register etc etc, They drive me mental.
So the piracy rate is probably in relation to their games and overcoming stupid DRM

Funnily enough the last time I purchased a Ubisoft game this was exactly what I ended up doing so frustrated was I that I couldn't play the game that I had paid for.

I quite like the look of Anno 2070 but have now resigned myself to not supporting Ubisoft and their horrible business practices. Thankfully they seem to be making this easier for me by screwing over the few remaining franchises of theirs I have an interest in, see the latest installment in the Splinter Cell series for a prime example.

Elysian · 22-08-2012 11:50pm

SeantheMan wrote: »

But when I purchase a Ubisoft game on steam, and I then get taken to their site and have to register etc etc, They drive me mental.
So the piracy rate is probably in relation to their games and overcoming stupid DRM

Same. I bought the Assassins Creed collection on Steam but instead of downloading them through Steam I torrented pirate copies so I wouldn't have to go through the rigmarole of trying to play them legally.

Reekwind · 22-08-2012 11:59pm

hooradiation wrote: »

I don't know what term I'd use for being able to fully enjoy a product that is not free without having to pay a penny towards it, but theft is pretty good contender.

Only contender, really.

Unless of course you consider theft to be taking something from someone else and thus depriving them of its use. If someone downloads a game then the developer has lost not one cent from this action

If there was no DRM, you can rest assured people would find another 'excuse' or 'justification' to pirate. Heck, didn't stop the rampant piracy in the good old days of floppy discs and cassettes

The counter-example would be the music industry where the establishment of legal downloading is generally accepted to have significantly cut pirating. Steam is having the same effect on the games industry

What's important to note here is that people will generally switch to legal channels if they are easier to use. (To simplify; you also have pricing models, DRM, etc to be factored in.) The idea that they'll all just come up with another excuse is baseless

Of course some people still pirate, music or otherwise, and some people always will. That's inevitable when you're dealing with a digital product. But, as music shows, they're hardly the majority. Running from them, as Ubisoft are doing, is stupid

johnny_ultimate · 23-08-2012 12:01am

I'm playing Driver San Francisco (Steam version) at the moment and I certainly don't consider the DRM to be particularly intrusive. Took me a minute or two to set up an account, and other than that all I need to do is press the play button that pops up in the standalone client. Sure, it would be nice if it had full Steam integration, no doubt, and some of the early 'drafts' of the DRM were much worse (not to mention the unfortunate but swiftly patched security problem). But I wouldn't consider it too much rigmarole at all. Not defending it, but wouldn't consider it anything worth getting worked up about in this particular instance.

SeantheMan · 23-08-2012 12:03am

Antar Bolaeisk wrote: »

Thankfully they seem to be making this easier for me by screwing over the few remaining franchises of theirs I have an interest in, see the latest installment in the Splinter Cell series for a prime example.

Crap, I only remembered I recently bought Conviction for the PC, and forgot it was Ubisoft and I'll have to go through all this

Window Live is another one, trying to play Batman etc

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

No choice? Interesting choice of words. You could wait 'til it's cheaper? Wait until you have the necessary funds? Or you could play something else you could afford? I'm pretty broke at the moment, but options one and two have served me pretty well thus far in supporting the games and developers I am particularly fond of.

I can't afford a car, so I just steal one.
I can't afford those new Nike boots in the shop, so I steal them.
This is basically the argument people are making, but because it's "Digital" and the chances of getting caught or convicted are basically zero - it suddenly is OK for people to do so.

The MAIN reason I don't pirate, is not because moral or eithical reasons.
If I buy a game, it's on knowledge and expectations I already have, and I want to "support" the developers so they can carry on creating such games.
And in Digital format such as the PC, a huge percent of this goes straight to them, as it cuts out B&M stores and Distributors really.

Antar Bolaeisk · 23-08-2012 12:21am

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

I'm playing Driver San Francisco (Steam version) at the moment and I certainly don't consider the DRM to be particularly intrusive. Took me a minute or two to set up an account, and other than that all I need to do is press the play button that pops up in the standalone client. Sure, it would be nice if it had full Steam integration, no doubt, and some of the early 'drafts' of the DRM were much worse (not to mention the unfortunate but swiftly patched security problem). But I wouldn't consider it too much rigmarole at all. Not defending it, but wouldn't consider it anything worth getting worked up about in this particular instance.

I seem to recall they've made it less intrusive than the horrendous always online unless our servers crap out rubbish they had going for games like Assassins Creed 2 and Silent Hunt 5.

This was much vaunted and celebrated for some absurd reason.

gizmo · 23-08-2012 12:29am

Reekwind wrote: »

Which is fine given that it's usually proffered in response to that other ludicrous oversimplification: pirating games is theft

Why must it me mono-causal?

Not really what I mean. I'm sure their more recent DRM implementations didn't help these piracy figures but it's far more likely that they saw similar figures in the past and used them as a justification for their attempts to lock down their games.

SeantheMan wrote: »

I'd like to see the statistics for Half Life : EP2 , or WoW, Starcraft 2, or any of the leading games.

While online only games aren't the best indicators for gauging piracy rates, it still doesn't stop them from appearing in the "charts". The top games of 2011 and 2010 can be found here and here.

SeantheMan wrote: »

I try to ONLY buy my games through Steam if possible.
I'd also wait for 6 months for a SALE rather than buy an overpriced game on release.

This is PC games we're talking about, how can anyone regard them as being overpriced?

SeantheMan wrote: »

Far Cry 3 is probably the only game they have I would like to buy.

Not Watch Dogs or Rayman Legends?

SeantheMan · 23-08-2012 12:41am

gizmo wrote: »

This is PC games we're talking about, how can anyone regard them as being overpriced?

On PC on STEAM atm, yes, some of them are new.
Most are console ports - for which the PC version will be an afterthought
But it still shows that the prices are as expensive as high street retailers for consoles.
We don't get all games 50% off on release

Transformers €50
Alice :Madness Returns €50
Darkspore : €50
Shift 2 : €50
Darksiders 2: €50
Borderlands 2 : €50
Dishonored : €50
COD BO2 : €60
Himan Absolution : €45

gizmo · 23-08-2012 12:49am

SeantheMan wrote: »

On PC on STEAM atm, yes, some of them are new.
Most are console ports - for which the PC version will be an afterthought
But it still shows that the prices are as expensive as high street retailers for consoles.
We don't get all games 50% off on release

Ah but that's Steam's fault, not the publishers. It's rather well known at this stage that their prices for new games are excessive. Most new titles these days seem to debut at around £27-£30 although I have seen some pretty horrific currency conversions that you guys can get hit with. Case in point, Darksiders II, Borderlands 2 and Dishonored are now £29.99 on Steam while Hitman Absolution is £26.99.

Reekwind wrote: »

Unless of course you consider theft to be taking something from someone else and thus depriving them of its use. If someone downloads a game then the developer has lost not one cent from this action

Directly? Of course not. However to ignore the fact that they may have bought the game had the illegal version not been available isn't right either. I've often seen people say that "pirates wouldn't have bought the game anyway" which I've always found ludicrous. What, do people think that these people would just stop playing video games altogether?

tuxy · 23-08-2012 2:16am

SeantheMan wrote: »

We don't get all games 50% off on release

Transformers €50
Alice :Madness Returns €50
Darkspore : €50
Shift 2 : €50
Darksiders 2: €50
Borderlands 2 : €50
Dishonored : €50
COD BO2 : €60
Himan Absolution : €45

Check out the price of those titles on http://www.gamestop.ie

Reekwind · 23-08-2012 7:30am

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

I'm playing Driver San Francisco (Steam version) at the moment and I certainly don't consider the DRM to be particularly intrusive

That's nice but your positive experience doesn't excuse the countless others who have had contrary experiences. Including legitimate customers who have sometimes been unable to play games that they have legitimately bought

SeantheMan wrote:

I can't afford a car, so I just steal one.
I can't afford those new Nike boots in the shop, so I steal them.
This is basically the argument people are making, but because it's "Digital" and the chances of getting caught or convicted are basically zero - it suddenly is OK for people to do so

If you steal car then the owner has no car. If you steal some Nikes then the shop is missing one pair of Nikes. If you pirate a game... well, nothing changes

The equation of piracy (the term itself is problematic) to theft in order to make a moral/ethical argument is not productive. Certainly, from the perspective of publishers, it's not going to help understand or quash pirating

gizmo wrote:

Not really what I mean. I'm sure their more recent DRM implementations didn't help these piracy figures but it's far more likely that they saw similar figures in the past and used them as a justification for their attempts to lock down their games.

That's what I'd call an excuse rather than a cause

Ubisoft aren't doing this for the laughs. They've clearly been very spooked by piracy and that's fair enough. Where they have massively failed is in formulating an adequate response to this. Instead of taking the Steam or indie approach (ie, making DRM functional and useful, or forging closer relations with the customers, respectively) they've slapped on draconian DRM that doesn't affect pirates and harms paying customers. Now that, unsurprisingly, seems to be failing

I'd be very surprised if Ubisoft wasn't, relatively, by far and away the most pirated PC publisher

Directly? Of course not. However to ignore the fact that they may have bought the game had the illegal version not been available isn't right either. I've often seen people say that "pirates wouldn't have bought the game anyway" which I've always found ludicrous. What, do people think that these people would just stop playing video games altogether?

I think we're spoiled by Steam and, yes, pirating. I remember a time when people would buy 3-4 games a year, tops. Now the norm is to have half a dozen unplayed games on the HD

And that often gets lost in the arguments: PC gaming has expanded massively over the past two decades and continues to do so. People are playing more games than ever before. This is despite, or arguably because of, the spectre of piracy. It's pretty silly to talk of the crippling effects of the latter when we're in the middle of a PC gaming boom

So yeah, people are playing more games than ever before. There's no grounds for talking of 95% piracy rates as if sales would double if not for 'the pirates'

(Which is not to say that some people don't pirate big releases that they would have bought otherwise. I'm sure that happens to a degree. But generally I've seen that if people like a franchise or a developer then they're happy to support it financially)

Skatedude · 23-08-2012 7:46am

I have never, ever pirated a game and i've been a pc gamer since the beginning.

i work in a big factory and i see tonnes of pirated games been swapped around the place, but they are all console so dont know where they get their facts from

PC has Piracy Rate of 93-95%

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