What would you do to improve driving and road safety in Ireland?

ballooba · 10-08-2007 10:38pm

From Road Collision Facts 2005

Table 36 Two Vehicle Collisions: Contributory Action, where Specified
(Driver Action) (Fatal) (Injury) (Total) (%)
(Drove through Stop/Yield Sign) (10) (316) (326) (16.2)
(Exceeded Safe Speed) (20) (240) (260) (12.9)
(Went to Wrong Side of Road) (40) (494) (534) (26.5)
(Improper Overtaking) (4) (112) (116) (5.8)
(Drove Through Traffic Signal) (0) (58) (58) (2.9)
(Failed to Signal) (0) (33) (33) (1.6)
(Other Action) (16) (670) (686) (34.1)
TOTAL 90 1,923 2,013 100

http://www.rsa.ie/publication/publication/upload/2005%20Road%20Collision%20Facts.pdf?PHPSESSID=60476507cb1708c609a39b4534f8a2a5

Mr. Presentable · 10-08-2007 10:38pm

Show drivers where the f***ing indicators are.

ballooba · 10-08-2007 10:39pm

scitpo wrote:

Who said anything about speed? Its at night and its on back roads. Thats where the deaths are happening.

Only 25% of fatal RTAs happen at night. You specifically mentioned speed (unless rallying around means playing tennis?). Most of our roads are rural roads. Go figure.

Rovi · 11-08-2007 12:24am

scitpo wrote:

Or because it would be a pointless piece of intrusive bureaucracy which would have minimal impact. <snip>

I've been banging on for years that mandatory regular re-testing of all drivers would be a 'good thing' for a variety of reasons, among them would be the discipline of actually having to get up to speed with the current ROTR/legislation and possibly even taking a lesson or two in preparation (:eek:).
If nothing else, motorists would get a refresher course in 'best practice' and would have to implement it for at least the duration of the test.
Who knows, they may even continue driving in such a manner afterwards.

While this probably wouldn't have much impact on the hard core hooligans, I think it would have a dramatic effect on many of the 'annoyances' we all come across all the time: proper use of indicators, roundabout technique, tailgating, lane discipline, use of mirrors, parking, etc, etc, ad infinitum.
I'm convinced that many of the people performing the above incorrectly (in my opinion) aren't doing it out of vindictiveness or spite, they simply don't know any better or think they are doing it right.

A side benefit would be that the testers would get to go for a spin in some nice cars instead of an endless parade of feckin' Micras and Polos.

the_syco · 11-08-2007 12:37am

Retest everybody. Properly.

Esp those f**kers who got a no-test-license a few decades ago.

Then do a retest every 20 years. We have a hard enough time trying to test the people who need the test atm, so 5 years is just stupid.

ballooba · 11-08-2007 4:18am

the_syco wrote:

Then do a retest every 20 years. We have a hard enough time trying to test the people who need the test atm, so 5 years is just stupid.

While I'm not entirely convinced about the whole retesting thing, mainly because I'm so glad to have got it, charging people proper rates for the test brings in revenue so there is no reason it could not be done properly. The main problems is the unions of course. Also people would then say it is just another source of revenue for the governemnt.

walshs3 · 11-08-2007 6:22pm

nipplenuts wrote:

Show drivers where the f***ing indicators are.

agree totally eith this.Also it should be made compulsary to put on your dims in wet weather.I do have my dims(not fogs) on constantly,hail rain or shine.Was driving home yesterday in the pi**es of rain and the amount of people i met withe none on,the point of putting them on is to increase other cars awareness of your approach.The biggest offenders seem to be company vans and taxis fro what ive seen so far.

TwoShedsJackson · 11-08-2007 10:49pm

Zascar wrote:

This could be taken one step further and a phone line should be set up so you can report bad drivers. Very quickly the really bad ones would get lots of complaints and they should be forced to get up to a certain standard or get off the roads.

Well that already exsists anyway, the Traffic Watch hotline or whatever it's called. Reported some gob****e who undertook me in the hard shoulder of the M50 last week as I went to take the slip road off it. Said I'd be willing to make a statement etc etc and haven't heard anything since, nor do I expect to, but hopefully if the cops get enough calls about this guy (assuming he does such things regularly, which I would have to suspect as pulling a manoeuvre like that just wouldn't occur to most people) they may have a chat with him.

jrar · 11-08-2007 11:56pm

MrPudding wrote:

One of my favourite examples of this is driving in bus lanes. People do not break the law assuming they will be caught. They will weigh up the pros and cons and come to a decisions. What is the punishment if I get caught? What are the chances of me getting caught? What do I gain by breaking the law? At the moment the punishment is kind of irrelevant as the chance of getting caught is so slim. So to use the bus lane example, there are a few threads on here about driving in bus lanes. A number of posters say they do it on a regular basic and even if they get caught occasionally they don’t mind as they think the time they save is worth the €60 fine. And lets face it, €60 is not a lot to pay a couple of times a year when you consider how much time you would save. MrArrogant Driver, whose time is much more valuable than everyone else’s will pay this gladly, buslane on the way to work and buslane on the way home….bargain. Now, lets imagine that every single time you illegally used a bus lane you received a €60 fine. Now MrArrogant Driver is paying €120 per day for the privilege. Do you think he will stop? The punishment is the same, not very much, but the advantage is gone because you will get caught.
MrP

If I'm not mistaken, in some jurisdictions, buses are fitted with a camera so that all non-bus lane traffic can be filmed and the evidence used to prescute drivers - innovative thinking like this would help in this country.

MrPudding · 12-08-2007 12:51am

Yes, they have them in some areas in the UK, and I am sure many other countries as well. They also mount the cameras at the front and bac of the buses, these are apparently very effective.

MrP

Andrewf20 · 12-08-2007 10:35am

There are many excuses for accidents on the roads from, poor visibility to heavy traffic, to potholes and narrow lanes, but at the end of the day in most cases its people who have accidents, and therefore its to do with peoples behaviour. I believe that the vast majority of people are well clued into driving safely / have gone thru all formal training etc, but some folks who knowingly takes bad risks are the ones that need to be clamped down. A greater police presence on the roads I believe will do alot to cut out bad driving behaviour. This seems to work in the USA.

Alun · 12-08-2007 10:40am

I was talking to someone yesterday who'd just come back from a holiday in Iceland. There, they take the mangled wreckage of crashed cars and place it by the side of the road (literally, there really only is one road to speak of in Iceland!) with a big sign saying something like "Don't let this be you - drive carefully".

Can't see this happening here though, it'd probably be considered "insensitive" or some such claptrap.

Johnny Storm · 12-08-2007 10:48am

In the US they have car pool lanes which are basically the same as bus lanes. You can drive in them only if there is more than the signposted number of people in your car (usually 2 or 3).
Hard to enforce? Not at all: every few hundred yards they have a big sign with a number to call if you see someone in the car pool lane with less than the required number of occupants. So you never see anyone in the car pool lane unless they have enough people on board... Simple and VERY effective.
I suppose a key difference is that in the US the potential carpool-lane-law-avoider knows that if someone calls in his licence number he WILL be stopped by a big ignorant copper (with a gun.)

Seth Brundle · 12-08-2007 10:48am

@Alun - It did happen here but seemingly was too much of a distraction and ended up being more of an accident risk!

http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/breaking/2001/0105/breaking48.htm

mikemac · 12-08-2007 10:57am

Better reporting of accidents.
I often hear reports on the radio of some young person losing control of the car. Seems like the car spun out of control on it's own accord and no top rally driver could control it.

Every week in a national paper or maybe on that crime show on RTE (Crime watch/call

), do a short report on a cross section of accidents.

So instead of hearing a one line report of someone being killed, if the autopsy shows they were three times over the drink limit or full of drugs, then report it.
If some businessman was too cheap to buy proper tyres for his executive BMW, then report that.
And if the driver was blameless and the Co. Council left the road in bits, people have a right to know.

Classic example were the 5 lads killed in Monaghan. Everyone calls it a tradegy, I call it suicide through recklessness.
Or the lady who crashed into the back of a fire engine on the N7 but her sister lambasted the Road Saftey Authority for not having electronic displays for altering the speed limit.
No takes responsibilty for anything in this country.

In Ireland, we often don't report things properly and hush things up. A suicide is reported as "no foul play is suspected" and other euphamisms that everybody understands.

So if an offical accident report showing the reason for the accident is compiled why not then release proper statistics and stories (names and locations deleted if needed) and let the public know and not just "car spun out of control"

Best part of my plan:It costs next to nothing
It's a shock and awe tactic, it'll offend people but so be it!

peasant · 12-08-2007 11:07am

micmclo wrote:

Better reporting of accidents.
I often hear reports on the radio of some young person losing control of the car. Seems like the car spun out of control on it's own accord and no top rally driver could control it.

Every week in a national paper or maybe on that crime show on RTE (Crime watch/call ), do a short report on a cross section of accidents.

So instead of hearing a one line report of someone being killed, if the autopsy shows they were three times over the drink limit or full of drugs, then report it.
If some businessman was too cheap to buy proper tyres for his executive BMW, then report that.
And if the driver was blameless and the Co. Council left the road in bits, people have a right to know.

+ 1 !

Kavs · 12-08-2007 5:28pm

take every god damn useless learner driver off the road!

ballooba · 12-08-2007 5:46pm

I was behind a learner driver with an ISM instructor today. I will give an accompanied learner on a lesson all the time in the world. I was behind this particular learner for about five minutes and I was appalled at what the instructor appeared to be teaching them.

One glaringly obvious error was that the instructor was telling the learner to leave one wheel on speed 'humps' and one in the gap. The correct way obviously is to leave the hump in the centre of the car so that you have no wheels on it. I shudder to think of all the people who have learned to drive with ISM in Ranelagh some of the habits they get people into are a disgrace. At least they have stopped using the area in front of the shop on Ranelagh Road as a set down area, that was really annoying.

mikemac · 12-08-2007 7:38pm

ballooba wrote:

One glaringly obvious error was that the instructor was telling the learner to leave one wheel on speed 'humps' and one in the gap. The correct way obviously is to leave the hump in the centre of the car so that you have no wheels on it.

My instructor thought me that too plus I was doing a motorcycle test and bikers can easily dodge speed bumps.

The idea is when you do your test, then the examiner will think you are dodging the speed bumps by doing what you are suggesting balloba.
So you have to clip them with one side of your car.

You owe an apology to ISM

ballooba · 12-08-2007 11:11pm

That's plain silly. Your instructor should be strung up. The whole point of the design of the bump is that you don't have to drive over it. Jesus wept. Name and shame please.

DonJose · 13-08-2007 12:00am

If a driver is convicted of drink driving, the car he/she was driving at the time of the offence would be confiscated and auctioned off. Such a low would see an overnight reduction in drink driving.

McSpud · 14-08-2007 12:47am

Lots of the suggestions mentioned here are obvious & will most likely pay for themselves so why is the State unable to move at anything greater than a snails pace?

* The politicians have been talking about increases the driving testers for at least 10 years so why has this not been done years ago?
* Registration of driving instructors has also been talked to death for as long as I can remember & is simple implement.

Appointing the likes of Gay Byrne are just PR stunts with added bonus of passing the buck to unelected body.

:rolleyes:

Stark · 14-08-2007 1:13am

micmclo wrote:

My instructor thought me that too plus I was doing a motorcycle test and bikers can easily dodge speed bumps.

The idea is when you do your test, then the examiner will think you are dodging the speed bumps by doing what you are suggesting balloba.
So you have to clip them with one side of your car.

You owe an apology to ISM

Perfect example of why we badly need accreditation for driving instructors asap. ISM are in the wrong here (quelle surprise) and your instructor is in the wrong.

ianwalsh2 · 14-08-2007 3:31am

biko wrote:

Investigate and take the best from drivers education in US,.....

Having spent the summer in New York the only aspect I would take from the US would be the roads. Apart from that the poor standard of driving, wrecklessness on the roads and lack of law abiding drivers in the US is unbelievable. We are certainly NOT as badly off in Ireland as people on this thread seem to think we are.

-Practically everyone I've talked to here in Long Island regularly drink and drive and openly admit to doing so,
-A lot of under 21's drive while under the influence of drugs (since they can't get drink)
-NOBODY wears a seatbelt
-Using a mobile while driving isn't illegal (I read an article last week which says there's talk of introducing a ban on texting while driving.)
-Everybody eats while driving, which in ways is as bad as using a mobile while driving.
-I've been told the driving test is so easy here a monkey could pass it. A testament to this is the fact that absolutely everybody out here from the age of 18 seems to have a full license.
-I see a hell of a lot of dangerous driving any time I'm on the roads. I recently got a mini-bus from San Francisco to LA where the bus driver rarely drove under 70 miles per hour, and at one stage reached 85 mph. Even at 85mph we were being passed by; this was on a road with a 55mph limit.

So as I mentioned previously we aren't as badly off as we think!
Having said that, there's always room for improvement so the only changes I would make are (in order of importance)
1 Improve on the general infrastructure, ie roads & signage.
2 Enforce the current laws.
3 Obviously the testing needs to be modernised and improved slightly, and the provisional license debacle needs to be sorted out.

mikemac · 14-08-2007 8:08am

Stark wrote:

Perfect example of why we badly need accreditation for driving instructors asap. ISM are in the wrong here (quelle surprise) and your instructor is in the wrong.

Tbh Stark & Balloba, maybe you're right and maybe you're wrong but I followed the advice about clipping speed bumps and passed my test. And my instructor is qualified
From their website:
I have the RoSPA Diploma in Advanced Riding Instruction and have trained to the DSA (Driving Standards Agency, UK )

So I'll take their advice over two posters on boards. We'll have to disagree on this one.

TheNog · 14-08-2007 8:28am

My suggestion is a successful prosecution of dangerous driving where 2 or more witnesses make statements and don't have to appear in court. According to the Trafficwatch report last year( i think) only a third of ppl who complain of dangerous driving will see it thru to court. The main reason is they don't want to take time off work.

ballooba · 14-08-2007 10:02am

micmclo wrote:

Tbh Stark & Balloba, maybe you're right and maybe you're wrong but I followed the advice about clipping speed bumps and passed my test. And my instructor is qualified
From their website:
I have the RoSPA Diploma in Advanced Riding Instruction and have trained to the DSA (Driving Standards Agency, UK )

So I'll take their advice over two posters on boards. We'll have to disagree on this one.

Well TBH, I went back and read your post later and saw that you were talking about motorbikes. I have never ridden a motorbike so I don't know. The practice for bikes may be different.

I would have imagined your instructor was referring to the practice of aiming for the shoulders of speed bumps rather than going between speed humps. That's a silly way to drive and you shouldn't have to do it for your test. Why would you make things harder for yourself.

orbital83 · 14-08-2007 7:27pm

scitpo wrote:

Nothing.
Irelands road safety is on par with other European countries. Any deviations from the norm are just a result of our massive system of hedged back roads and those are just a consequence of our history and settlement patterns.
Road deaths are falling as car numbers soar over the last ten years. A lot of this might be attributed to better, safer cars but who can really tell.

I mostly agree with this.
Road safety has become a national obsession in this country - right up there with property prices and Gucci bags. Every Tom, Dick and Harry up on his barstool seems to have some ludicrous idea how it can be improved.

The fact of the matter is - road deaths per population in Ireland are in the better half of the EU league table.
This is against the backdrop of a wholly inadequate and dangerous road network, and a remarkable level of dependence on the private car, which results in the average Irish car doing something like 50% more mileage than its European counterpart.

Sadly, in every walk of life you will meet:
- idiots
- people who make mistakes
The public roadway is no exception.
Until someone finds a way of banishing all idiots from the face of the earth, and eliminating human error while they're at it, the perceived target of zero road deaths will never be achieved.

Any proposed measure to improve road safety needs to be balanced against the cost for the vast majority of us who rely on a car to get from A to B. Quick fixes are not the answer.

Sure, reducing the speed limit to 30km/h in every urban area might improve the stats. But this will also add to the countless number of hours per week we already spend commuting. It will also increase the inefficiency of our already hopeless infrastructure, leading to higher costs, companies moving abroad and lost jobs.

Sure, banishing all provisional drivers from the road with effect from 12 midnight might improve the stats. But, assuming one in four of those drivers have no alternative mode of transport to get to work, the state is going to have to find an extra billion euro per annum to pay their social welfare. Not to mention the billions of lost income tax, PRSI, road tax etc.

Less pontificating by ex-TV show hosts, less glossy books through letterboxes which will never be read, and more money towards building decent roads would go a long way to improving an already reasonable set of road safety figures.

CreepingDeath · 14-08-2007 10:20pm

I propose

1) different classes of license. Graded by the engine size.
Eg. 1.0 - 1.5 litre, 1.5 - 2.0 litre, 2.0 litre +
Only insurance companies really constrain what an 18 year old muppet can drive. Alternatively it could be ruled by age, much like motorbikes. ie. you can only get a certain litre car over 25 years old.

2) Anyone convicted of excessive speeding, dangerous / careless driving has to have a "black box" installed in their car at their expense ( after any bans ).
A cheap version could just record GPS position and speed, which can then track their adherence to the speed limit. Maybe even a webcam installed on their dash, which records their driving for a certain period. ( a driving probation period monitored by technology )

3) Similar to speed cameras, have "proximity cameras" on motorways.
If two cars are too close to each other, photograph them.
Obviously the one behind is at fault.

4) Speed mines / heat seeking missiles.
If they detect a car going over 140mph, they blow up.

Ps. I love the idea of buses having webcams front and back, to catch drivers in the bus lanes. Quality thinking behind that one.

What would you do to improve driving and road safety in Ireland?

Comments