Ancestry hiring Pro Genealogists in Dublin

Coolnabacky1873 wrote: »

I'd be thinking 35-40k too for the senior positions. Although, I wonder if they offer a lower base salary plus % of completed projects. Purely a guess on my part, though.

Will those who have been working independently for a number of years think its a risk worth taking to join the Ancestry team? Might they be expected to bring their clients and contacts aboard too?

Cheeky question but anyone thinking of applying?:D

I don't get out of bed for that type of money:)

Seriously though, I could see that type of job being attractive to someone who was thinking about starting out on their own, who saw and was attracted by the cushion of full employment on a fixed salary rather than the ups and downs of self employment. (Try to raise a mortgage as a self-employed person). Or someone too young to retire and wanted to earn a few quid, no big outgoings and happy to take a drop to do a 'nice' job. The big issue that foreign firms do not comprehend are living costs - on that type of salary the commute would be huge, even Google people are finding it hard to find accom in that area.

There probably would be some sort of target set on workload achievement. I cannot see any demand to bring along contacts / client base.

From the employer's perspective the pain with jobs like those on offer (partic the junior one) is there is a ceiling on what can be justified as salary; as soon as the worker is performing very well there must be a better job to promote into to earn more money, otherwise they just leave/get head hunted and the employer has to start over.

@ Hermy, job specs are a wish list, not usually feasible or realistic. I would not worry too much about the foreign language bit, my guess is it would not be critical for a role in Dublin and other attributes would overcome it. Were a language critical it would be specified, along with fluency level.

Just curious, when they say 'Grad.' are they talking about a Degree? Hasn't it been impossible up to recently to get one of those in Genealogy here? A certificate is all I could get a few years back. Is a certificate enough? I very much doubt it!

I fully agree with Mod9’s comments.

Those are niche jobs, so success will depend on the number of applicants and the interviewers. I’ve no professional experience in genealogy recruitment, but have recruited dozens of people/grads in the past for Services industries.

While a general degree shows ability/achievement, it does not indicate genealogical skills. A person with a lower qualification in genealogy and great experience/skills could easily outweigh a recent grad in history. That depends on the views of those making the preliminary selection. If there are dozens of applicants, it becomes a numbers game and only the most qualified will get called for interview. Round one will contain a few ‘wild cards’ i.e. people who are slightly outside the box. The hurdle will be to get onto that interview list, so completion of the application form is critical. Forget the ‘downside’ of not speaking a foreign language, they also are looking for speakers of specific languages (German & French per their site).

Were I to apply, I’d go for the senior role, leaving the option to bump down to the level below. Also, if rejected get back to them and ask about an internship – that could be a way in via the side door.

@Cool – Ireland XO appers dead, a hype program for “The Gathering” and now forgotten (or without a budget). Did IARC not hire a CEO and announce a hiring program? (or is that a rude question?)

I read Grenham’s piece and I disagree with him. Perhaps unwittingly his article sums up what is wrong with genealogy in Ireland – the divorce between “commercial reality” and genealogical academia. Sorry John G, I respect and admire your work but I think your business views are way off. Competition never harmed the better people, it weeded out the weak and made niche players stronger, made them think about their businesses and actually provided them with opportunities. Think of craft butchers, micro-breweries / distilleries and boutiques for wedding dresses, not Dunnes/Penneys.

Ancestry Inc. will never employ Irish genealogists to do Swedish genealogy work, despite what JG suggests, because economically it’s a non-starter.
Nor do I see much lucidity in JG’s “High-quality, paid-for research is becoming a luxury, viable only with the kind of international marketing muscle a company like Ancestry can muster” Sorry, but “High quality research” is, was and always will be a luxury because of COST, (a word JG never once mentioned) and has nothing to do with “international marketing muscle”. People will pay for research, but only when it brings value and they know what they are letting themselves in for. Genos need to be up front with success possibilities and balance them with punters’ expectations and fee spend (Cost! )

What is wrong with the genealogy industry is that most of the professional practitioners have no business training. It is missing VISION and a grasp of commercial reality. It needs people who have a commercial ‘feel’ and know what the public expects and demands.. Look at the number of times the big pro geno sites have been criticized on this forum, from crappy log-on procedures, server denial messages, to near-scam direct debits and promises of access to gazillions of people in a database. (In the last few days I got an email from one promising me access to the 1911 Census!) Look at the fiasco of genealogy in Ireland, with competing free/paid for sites, disunity between most/all the ‘professional’ bodies, gombeen politicos waffling on about what WILL be done, look at key sites taken down because of fears of Data Protection suits. Etc., etc. Can anyone think of another industry that behaves like this?

I agree that the world has changed, there is a huge amount of information out there, good, bad and indifferent. It’s the same in all sectors - take medicine as an example – most people now use Google to self-diagnose and then go to a doctor with an idea of potentially what is wrong with them. Take a car mechanical problem – the Internet often will provide suggestions and often a repair COST (that dirty word again!). Genealogy for a prospective customer should be no different because people can get quite far on their own but do need help/pointers assistance. Punters are afraid of COST – so there is a need to be very up-front with fee pricing and structure. The geno people need to wake up and realise that what they have to offer is special, in demand by a few who are prepared to pay when their own skills (or time) reach limits. Many can change a bulb or plug or fuse but they then call in an electrician to rewire. Genealogy is no different.

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

........The one to which you link is a junior position, basically a grunt doing back-office work, so 28-40k tops depending on degree and experience.....

You need a degree for 'grunt' work nowadays? This just makes me grumpy!

pinkypinky wrote: »

I think there's a more junior position than associate genealogist (assistant genealogist?)

It’s game-playing Pinky, a means of fobbing-off the unprepared with a fancy title, holding out the carrot of a nicer one if you are a good little employee.

Jellybaby1 wrote: »

You need a degree for 'grunt' work nowadays? This just makes me grumpy!

Well, it’s not the degree that is necessary, it’s simply used as a means of whittling down the pile of applications. Dump those applicants with no degree and you have a shorter list to review. When using recruitment agencies in the past I’ve sometimes seen them include a ‘wildcard’ – “Pedro, here is a shortlist of 5 candidates we think you should meet, and we have included one who does not meet the criteria but looks very interesting.” Special attributes can overcome the lack of a qualification/specific experience, but it is very hard for an applicant to get noticed and get to the interview stage, but it can happen.

To be honest, I’m no expert on grades / salary scales in the geno business. My comments are based on my experience in hiring and salary scales of professionally qualified personnel in the Irish and several overseas markets.

I think in this case Ancestry could be making a mistake typical of many multinationals (MN) – they consider the people in the ‘foreign’ market to be impressed by its strength, reputation, whatever and less astute than employees ‘at home’, so there is no need to tell them too much. (Believe me, that does occur.)

There are all sorts of reasons for not mentioning salary in a job advert.
The main reason is because of the existing local employees – if a local MN needs new staff urgently it might be necessary to pay over the odds initially to attract and acquire them. Putting the pay scale in a job advert would create huge dissent (ok, call it whining!) among the existing staff (here and abroad) of that/or similar grades if they were being paid less. (In Utah most staff would be paid a lot less than their equivalent in Ireland.)

No mention of salary, the MN has the upper hand and poor John/Mary who is trying to get ‘THE’ job is at a disadvantage because s/he has less information. It’s called information asymmetry. Also, big organisations like MNs have a huge fear of ‘precedent’ – create one like a salary scale and you are stuck with it forever.

Unless a MN has a good person ‘on the ground’, it usually has no idea of local market conditions so it actually might have no idea of what pay is appropriate. Then, following a series of interviews, it sees what good candidates want and only then decides on a salary. Alternatively, the MN might have a great person on the ground but s/he is ignored by HQ, another regular occurrence.

So, were I a MN boss in Ireland recruiting for this type of position I would tell my staff that we need XX and anyone who proposes a successful candidate gets a bonus of €yy.

The fact that they are advertising on their website suggests to me that they are substantially underpaying people, they know it, and know it would be a waste of time trying to use a recruiter as the better agencies would not be bothered, knowing that the salary/position is way out of line.

It would be very interesting to learn what was on offer.