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Greenways and Disused Rail Alignments

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  • 04-06-2009 3:03pm
    #1
    Rawr
    Registered Users Posts: 3,766 ✭✭✭


    I'm not certain if this belongs here or on a Travel & Tourism board, but the debate currently raging over on the Western Rail Corridor topic has brought up the issue of Greenways. This, and the suggestion of a fellow Boardser, have prompted me to create a topic of it's own.

    For those who do not know; Greenways are often Long-Distance pathways and cycletracks which are typically built upon dismantled or disused rail-alignments, or other similar corridors. The WRC debate had brought forward the idea of converting it's alignment north of Athenry, into Greenways.

    If it is the case that the WRC's Phase 2 and 3 (Athenry - Sligo) are not rebuilt for rail traffic, I believe that this alignment would make an excellent Greenway.

    However, this is not the only disused Railway in CIE ownership. Much of the remains of our once extensive rail-network can be seen in many parts of our country, many of which may still be owned CIE, and may be perfect caniditates for conversion into Greenways.

    EireTrains' excellent website photo-catalogs a lot of these old alignments and is well worth a look.

    Although, what are the benefits of doing this? Personally, a couple of potential benefits come to mind:

    -Greenways may help in opening up our countryside to cycling and other recreation. I feel that they could be far more enjoyable to navigate compared to existing country roads.

    -They may promote tourism and other cycle-realted activity along their routes.

    -They could protect the rail alignment from encrochment.

    The final point on encrochment, is what I believe to be the strongest advantage to greenways. They would protect the alignment from housing and other possible developments being built upon it. Although some of our disused raillines may not nessisarily be needed now, the possibilty of re-construction should always be there for whatever future need we may have.

    You may agree with what I have to say here, your may disagree, you may even see disadvantages to Greenways that I do not...but regardless, I am very interested to see what opinion to this concept will be...


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Comments

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    #2
    Gruffalo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 299 ✭✭Gruffalo


    These greenways could provide a safe way for cyclists to get into and around some of our larger towns cities. By removing or reducing the time spent sharing space with cars, cyclists would feel safer and are more likely to take up the option of cycling to and from work.


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    #3
    westtip
    Registered Users Posts: 4,282 ✭✭✭westtip


    You know I am a big fan of these suggest all look at the sustrans website to see the amazing work done in the UK in this area over the past ten years:

    www.sustrans.org.uk and http://www.sustransconnect2.org.uk/r...elines%206.pdf


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    #4
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,816 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    If any of them are to be looked at, New Ross is probably the least likely to ever re-open (well, Foynes, but its still 'open' officially!); and is in a fairly touristy area. If one was to be trialled, I'd go for this.


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    #5
    Judgement Day
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    Tralee/Fenit would be an ideal one but I seriously doubt there is the volume of potential visitors to make any of these trails viable. What about the Great Southern Trail on the former North Kerry Railway line see link here http://www.southerntrail.net/

    I shouldn't imagine it is really much of a money spinner, as like so many other things in Ireland the population isn't there to support it and our tourist visitor numbers are dismal.


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    #6
    westtip
    Registered Users Posts: 4,282 ✭✭✭westtip


    Judgement Day wrote: »
    Tralee/Fenit would be an ideal one but I seriously doubt there is the volume of potential visitors to make any of these trails viable. What about the Great Southern Trail on the former North Kerry Railway line see link here http://www.southerntrail.net/

    I shouldn't imagine it is really much of a money spinner, as like so many other things in Ireland the population isn't there to support it and our tourist visitor numbers are dismal.

    JD yes you have made a serious point about our visitor numbers and critical mass of population - but these are a great way of maintaining the alignments in public ownership and putting them to some use (eg claremorris Collooney!)- and actually they cost very little to maintain, viability is not really an issue people will not be paying to use them. Really they are about what kind of society do we want to live in? They will provide somewhere safe for people to walk and cycle and take the granny out in the wheelchair on Sunday and kids in buggies etc; they are not just about visitors and tourists but also about improving the overall quality of life for residents. Marketed well some could become key tourist attractions - but not will not attract high volumes of people - A cycle network in the west and northwest though would make a cycling holiday a viable option again in Ireland - how anyone cycles for long distances on our roads now is beyond me.


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    #7
    gjim
    Registered Users Posts: 1,115 ✭✭✭gjim


    Judgement Day wrote: »
    Tralee/Fenit would be an ideal one but I seriously doubt there is the volume of potential visitors to make any of these trails viable. What about the Great Southern Trail on the former North Kerry Railway line see link here http://www.southerntrail.net/

    I shouldn't imagine it is really much of a money spinner, as like so many other things in Ireland the population isn't there to support it and our tourist visitor numbers are dismal.
    Yes I've walked Tralee/Fenit as a child. It should be perfect with the views of Mount Brandon across Tralee bay and the termination near the sea.

    Unfortunately I think it would cost quite a bit currently to make it passable as it has been allowed to completely degenerate. This happened very quickly. Up to about 20 years ago, they still did a maintenance/weed spraying run a few times a year. It is now completely overgrown to the extent that it's hard to discern in places and not just with bushes but serious looking trees and the like. Also a number of bridges have been (illegally) removed.

    I've also been told that IR have effectively informed adjacent landowners that they may soon be given the nod and they'll be welcome to grab what's left of it.

    It would never be a "money spinner" (on that basis most public infrastructure would never be built) but it would provide great amenity. It should not cost much to maintain once established. Paths like these have survived in Europe since Celtic times and are still used and usable; all you need is a bit of footfall. Well ok and maybe a weed spray once a year or so and a sprinkle of gravel.


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    #8
    Gruffalo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 299 ✭✭Gruffalo


    gjim wrote: »
    Yes I've walked Tralee/Fenit as a child. It should be perfect with the views of Mount Brandon across Tralee bay and the termination near the sea.

    Unfortunately I think it would cost quite a bit currently to make it passable as it has been allowed to completely degenerate. This happened very quickly. Up to about 20 years ago, they still did a maintenance/weed spraying run a few times a year. It is now completely overgrown to the extent that it's hard to discern in places and not just with bushes but serious looking trees and the like. Also a number of bridges have been (illegally) removed.

    I've also been told that IR have effectively informed adjacent landowners that they may soon be given the nod and they'll be welcome to grab what's left of it.

    It would never be a "money spinner" (on that basis most public infrastructure would never be built) but it would provide great amenity. It should not cost much to maintain once established. Paths like these have survived in Europe since Celtic times and are still used and usable; all you need is a bit of footfall. Well ok and maybe a weed spray once a year or so and a sprinkle of gravel.

    In fairness, if something like this got the go ahead, you would probably be able to organise enough volunteers to do most of the work. What they could not do could be done by a FÁS scheme. This would keep the cost down and the materials required would hardly be to expensive. It would be the kind of project that could really foster community spirit.


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    #9
    westtip
    Registered Users Posts: 4,282 ✭✭✭westtip


    gjim wrote: »
    Yes I've walked Tralee/Fenit as a child. It should be perfect with the views of Mount Brandon across Tralee bay and the termination near the sea.

    Unfortunately I think it would cost quite a bit currently to make it passable as it has been allowed to completely degenerate. This happened very quickly. Up to about 20 years ago, they still did a maintenance/weed spraying run a few times a year. It is now completely overgrown to the extent that it's hard to discern in places and not just with bushes but serious looking trees and the like. Also a number of bridges have been (illegally) removed.

    I've also been told that IR have effectively informed adjacent landowners that they may soon be given the nod and they'll be welcome to grab what's left of it.

    It would never be a "money spinner" (on that basis most public infrastructure would never be built) but it would provide great amenity. It should not cost much to maintain once established. Paths like these have survived in Europe since Celtic times and are still used and usable; all you need is a bit of footfall. Well ok and maybe a weed spray once a year or so and a sprinkle of gravel.

    I suggest if you do have these suspicions they should be put on record to the public - and I don't mean a message board note - drop a quick line with the idea to Eamon o'cuiv and cc the email to Dempsey and send a copy to IR or write to them separately - if they have something in writing that something untoward is happening they won't do it. I have taken the liverty of drafting a suggested email for you Making the following points:

    Dear Minister:

    I understand your department is looking at the possibility of creating a series of "greenway linear paths" along dissused railway lines in the west of Ireland -I fully support this idea as I think it will be a major tourist attraction. I read the comments you made in a speech on May 1st about the Claremorris to Collooney line as a potential greenway, which I think is a great idea.

    I wanted to bring to your attention the line from Fenit to Tralee - which I think would be an ideal candidate for such a project, with spectactular views of Mount Brandon.

    However, I have some concerns as I've been told that Irish Rail have effectively informed adjacent landowners that they may soon be given the nod and they'll be welcome to grab what's left of the line for private usage. The line has been closed many years - and I think action is required now to ensure the lineage remains in public ownership.

    Could you confirm that Irish Rail will not be doing what I fear is going to happen. Many thanks in advance and good luck with this intiative which I fully support.


    Believe me - I have met O'cuiv and discussed this matter with him and it is something he wants to push for the west. He will respond to your letter.


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    #10
    HeritageRailway
    Closed Accounts Posts: 40 ✭HeritageRailway


    Legally, Irish Rail don't have any absolute say in the use or disposal of an old railway trackbed or land asset as they don't have ownership of the property; this is actually held by CIE under it's property arm.

    The difficulty in opening a walkway is in the legal framework to dispose of the line as the Laws stand. For any disused line to be disposed of, Irish Rail firstly informs the CIE Board that they have absolutely no more use for the line as an operational railway. The CIE Board, if it so accepts this position, then informs the Minister of Transport (The owner of CIE) of intent to apply for a formal abandonment order to extinguish the lines protection under any applicable railway order in existence. Assuming that there is no objections and it is carried through, any land banks are legally offered to adjacent landowners first off, local authorities then offered any unsold land. After this, land is offered on the open market to all comers. In some cases, CIE still own land on trackbeds that remained unsold and can use the land as paths if it so wishes. This process explains how IE could infer that a land is available to adjacent landowners in time without actually handing it over.

    By and large, any railway that has been turned into a walking path has local council backing or assistance to some level or degree and CIE have a history of co-operating with efforts to preserve trackbeds.
    westtip wrote: »
    I suggest if you do have these suspicions they should be put on record to the public - and I don't mean a message board note - drop a quick line with the idea to Eamon o'cuiv and cc the email to Dempsey and send a copy to IR or write to them separately - if they have something in writing that something untoward is happening they won't do it. I have taken the liverty of drafting a suggested email for you Making the following points:

    Dear Minister:

    I understand your department is looking at the possibility of creating a series of "greenway linear paths" along dissused railway lines in the west of Ireland -I fully support this idea as I think it will be a major tourist attraction. I read the comments you made in a speech on May 1st about the Claremorris to Collooney line as a potential greenway, which I think is a great idea.

    I wanted to bring to your attention the line from Fenit to Tralee - which I think would be an ideal candidate for such a project, with spectactular views of Mount Brandon.

    However, I have some concerns as I've been told that Irish Rail have effectively informed adjacent landowners that they may soon be given the nod and they'll be welcome to grab what's left of the line for private usage. The line has been closed many years - and I think action is required now to ensure the lineage remains in public ownership.

    Could you confirm that Irish Rail will not be doing what I fear is going to happen. Many thanks in advance and good luck with this intiative which I fully support.


    Believe me - I have met O'cuiv and discussed this matter with him and it is something he wants to push for the west. He will respond to your letter.


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    #11
    gjim
    Registered Users Posts: 1,115 ✭✭✭gjim


    Gruffalo, the same thought immediately struck me that it would be a perfect FAS project. However I haven't a clue whether FAS does much stuff like this any more - back in the 80s and 90s I remember lots of FAS "community projects". Not so much recently.

    Westtip, my tie with this area is a close relative farmer who is one of the adjacent land owners. I will be down there in the next week or so and will properly quiz him on what the IR man said to him; to be honest I could be misrepresenting the situation because I cannot remember the full details but HeritageRailways explanation of the abandonment process would seem to confirm it.

    I think my relative would not mind at all if the line cleared were for walkers and he seemed somewhat disinterested in about the prospect of a free acre or so of land. We even mentioned this idea years ago before I ever heard of the Greenway movement. But you'll understand that I'd like to confirm the man's feelings before I start campaigning against it. If he's amenable and the facts in regard to abandonment of the line are confirmed, I will sent off a letter.


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    #12
    Rawr
    Registered Users Posts: 3,766 ✭✭✭Rawr


    HeritageRailway wrote: »
    Legally, Irish Rail don't have any absolute say in the use or disposal of an old railway trackbed or land asset as they don't have ownership of the property; this is actually held by CIE under it's property arm.

    The difficulty in opening a walkway is in the legal framework to dispose of the line as the Laws stand. For any disused line to be disposed of, Irish Rail firstly informs the CIE Board that they have absolutely no more use for the line as an operational railway. The CIE Board, if it so accepts this position, then informs the Minister of Transport (The owner of CIE) of intent to apply for a formal abandonment order to extinguish the lines protection under any applicable railway order in existence. Assuming that there is no objections and it is carried through, any land banks are legally offered to adjacent landowners first off, local authorities then offered any unsold land. After this, land is offered on the open market to all comers. In some cases, CIE still own land on trackbeds that remained unsold and can use the land as paths if it so wishes. This process explains how IE could infer that a land is available to adjacent landowners in time without actually handing it over.

    By and large, any railway that has been turned into a walking path has local council backing or assistance to some level or degree and CIE have a history of co-operating with efforts to preserve trackbeds.

    Thanks for that info HeritageRailway.
    I wonder, is it really nessisary for IE to declare the line abandoned? I feel that a Greenway need not nessisarily replace a dismantled railline, but instead, act as a physical 'place-holder' which has the double-perpose of being a cycle/walkway.

    I'm very pro-rail myself, and I'd love as many of the old rail-lines re-opened as possible....but that is not always realistic. Thus Greenways should be used as a way of keeping this property in public (CIE) ownership, until such a time when a rail-line may be needed there again. (Without having to spend a fortune, re-purchasing the land)


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    #13
    HeritageRailway
    Closed Accounts Posts: 40 ✭HeritageRailway


    Rawr wrote: »
    Thanks for that info HeritageRailway.
    I wonder, is it really nessisary for IE to declare the line abandoned? I feel that a Greenway need not nessisarily replace a dismantled railline, but instead, act as a physical 'place-holder' which has the double-perpose of being a cycle/walkway.

    I'm very pro-rail myself, and I'd love as many of the old rail-lines re-opened as possible....but that is not always realistic. Thus Greenways should be used as a way of keeping this property in public (CIE) ownership, until such a time when a rail-line may be needed there again. (Without having to spend a fortune, re-purchasing the land)

    It would be required as there is a change of use of the lines route as per thes relevant railway order; abandonment is the legal route and allows for re-use of the land. The issue with laying a walkway is that if it ended up that it established a right of way for the path and a track was relaid, then there may be access issues in the future but it's an easier situation to deal with than a house or factory on the trackbed :)


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    #14
    westtip
    Registered Users Posts: 4,282 ✭✭✭westtip


    Why does anything sensible have to be so bloody complicated in this wonderful little (really little) country of ours.


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    #15
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,278 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    HeritageRailway wrote: »
    Assuming that there is no objections and it is carried through, any land banks are legally offered to adjacent landowners first off, local authorities then offered any unsold land.
    Are you sure it isn't the other way around? Local authority first, then adjacent land owners?


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    #16
    Carawaystick
    Registered Users Posts: 8,779 ✭✭✭Carawaystick


    Rawr wrote: »
    Thanks for that info HeritageRailway.
    I wonder, is it really nessisary for IE to declare the line abandoned? I feel that a Greenway need not nessisarily replace a dismantled railline, but instead, act as a physical 'place-holder' which has the double-perpose of being a cycle/walkway.

    Unless the law is changed of course. this can be done inside a day ( all 5 Oireachtas stages) if the govt feel it is important.....

    Long distance low level walks/cycle paths would be a winner if marketed properly here. The west Cork line has some fabulous scenery and great engineering to go over. Even excluding the viaduct over the N71.

    I passed loads of the wrc today on the N17, it's so suited to a cycling /walking route.


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    #17
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    gjim wrote: »
    Yes I've walked Tralee/Fenit as a child. It should be perfect with the views of Mount Brandon across Tralee bay and the termination near the sea.

    Unfortunately I think it would cost quite a bit currently to make it passable as it has been allowed to completely degenerate. This happened very quickly. Up to about 20 years ago, they still did a maintenance/weed spraying run a few times a year. It is now completely overgrown to the extent that it's hard to discern in places and not just with bushes but serious looking trees and the like. Also a number of bridges have been (illegally) removed.

    I've also been told that IR have effectively informed adjacent landowners that they may soon be given the nod and they'll be welcome to grab what's left of it.

    It would never be a "money spinner" (on that basis most public infrastructure would never be built) but it would provide great amenity. It should not cost much to maintain once established. Paths like these have survived in Europe since Celtic times and are still used and usable; all you need is a bit of footfall. Well ok and maybe a weed spray once a year or so and a sprinkle of gravel.

    Fenit is pretty much unusable, most of the line in Tralee town centre has been lifted. I don't even know where it resumes, I keep intending to travel to Tralee and go hunting for the remains (yes I'm that sad, lol).


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    #18
    HeritageRailway
    Closed Accounts Posts: 40 ✭HeritageRailway


    Victor wrote: »
    Are you sure it isn't the other way around? Local authority first, then adjacent land owners?

    Landowners get first call, the 1944 Transport act allows for land owners "under or adjoining" a line this protection. After this, the land may go to Public Auction . As a rule, track land is only of much use to adjacent landowners and even then, it's generally just to allow access to land that they may have; embankments and cuttings making cultivating land awkward in places. In practice, only stations and buildings have proven desirable to the general public due to the property value.


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    #19
    HeritageRailway
    Closed Accounts Posts: 40 ✭HeritageRailway


    Carawaystick wrote: »
    Unless the law is changed of course. this can be done inside a day ( all 5 Oireachtas stages) if the govt feel it is important.....

    Long distance low level walks/cycle paths would be a winner if marketed properly here. The west Cork line has some fabulous scenery and great engineering to go over. Even excluding the viaduct over the N71.

    I passed loads of the wrc today on the N17, it's so suited to a cycling /walking route.

    To change the law, there is many Railway Acts that need to be taken into account to ensure that there; it is a lot more work than a day in Leinster House. There is also the factor of taking into account the relevant communities (both at Council level and with local groups) to back such plans for walks. Not to say that it isn't a good idea but it does take far more work to pull it off both in front of and behind the scenes than meets the eye. Routes, land ownership and who controls the walkway, safety (footpaths crossing major roads is asking for trouble in this land), patronage; there is a long list of things to consider here, but possible it certainly is.


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    #20
    serfboard
    Registered Users Posts: 4,676 ✭✭✭serfboard


    I am hugely in favour of Greenways myself for the same reasons given by other posters, and also find it very frustrating that such a convoluted legal process has to be gone through.

    However, as I mentioned in the WOT thread I have actually seen a Greenway in Ireland :eek:

    There's one in Dungarvan - a perfect model - the track is (maintained) grass with some tarmac down the middle - and I believe there is also one around Newcastlewest along the old Limerick - North Kerry Route. As has been mentioned by other posters there is so much potential greenway in Ireland (Sligo-Donegal route is another possibility - visible from the Barnesmore Gap).

    According to this document:
    - The average spend of walking activists is greater than for any other activity
    - The average length of holiday stay is greater at 16 nights
    - The potential for repeat business is extremely high in this market - 88% are very/quite likely to revisit

    So, as others have said, if Discover Ireland would advertise them properly, as well as a great facility for ourselves, they could prove to be a very nice little earner from tourists for us - and God knows we're going to need it!


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    #21
    Gruffalo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 299 ✭✭Gruffalo


    serfboard wrote: »
    I am hugely in favour of Greenways myself for the same reasons given by other posters, and also find it very frustrating that such a convoluted legal process has to be gone through.

    However, as I mentioned in the WOT thread I have actually seen a Greenway in Ireland :eek:

    There's one in Dungarvan - a perfect model - the track is (maintained) grass with some tarmac down the middle - and I believe there is also one around Newcastlewest along the old Limerick - North Kerry Route. As has been mentioned by other posters there is so much potential greenway in Ireland (Sligo-Donegal route is another possibility - visible from the Barnesmore Gap).

    According to this document:



    So, as others have said, if Discover Ireland would advertise them properly, as well as a great facility for ourselves, they could prove to be a very nice little earner from tourists for us - and God knows we're going to need it!

    Not only would they attract tourists on their own merit. They would also be an additional attraction for people who are considering Ireland for a holiday and because walkers generally do not worry too much about the weather, they could help to extend the holiday season in Ireland.


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    #22
    westtip
    Registered Users Posts: 4,282 ✭✭✭westtip


    serfboard wrote: »
    I am hugely in favour of Greenways myself for the same reasons given by other posters, and also find it very frustrating that such a convoluted legal process has to be gone through.

    However, as I mentioned in the WOT thread I have actually seen a Greenway in Ireland :eek:


    According to this document:



    !

    Thanksf for link to that Waterford .pdf re their strategy its good to see that CC is on board - it's a document which should be read by every council. I will be getting it into the hands of all my local councillors.


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    #23
    Rawr
    Registered Users Posts: 3,766 ✭✭✭Rawr


    westtip wrote: »
    Thanksf for link to that Waterford .pdf re their strategy its good to see that CC is on board - it's a document which should be read by every council. I will be getting it into the hands of all my local councillors.

    Agreed, this an excellent docmument which should be seen by all local authorities with disused rail-alignments in thier catchment.

    One concern however. On reading the section on the disused Waterford-Dungarvan line, there is brief mention of 'Administritive Delays' in transfering ownership of the alignment from CIE to the County Council. Although this could be just something minor, ...this could also be due to something far more serious that could 'de-rail' any potential greenway project here.

    HeritageRailway's description of the process for CIE to abandon and transfer ownership of old alignments to a CC, mentions that ajoining land-owners essentially get first-dibs on the property. I can imagine possible situations where a land-owner may actually take up that offer and thus truncate the entire greenway.


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    #24
    westtip
    Registered Users Posts: 4,282 ✭✭✭westtip


    Rawr wrote: »
    Agreed, this an excellent docmument which should be seen by all local authoprities with disused rail-alignments in thier catchment.

    One concern however. On reading the section on the disused Waterford-Dungarvan line, there is brief mention of 'Administritive Delays' in transfering ownership of the alignment from CIE to the County Council. Although this could be just something minor, ...this could also be due to something far more serious that could 'de-rail' any potential greenway project here.

    HeritageRailway's description of the process for CIE to abandon and transfer ownership of old alignments to a CC, mentions that ajoining land-owners essentially get first-dibs on the property. I can imagine possible situations where a land-owner may actually take up that offer and thus truncate the entire greenway.

    Yes as per usual I don't think there will be much joined up thinking on this one - unless some legislation comes into place to make sure these things can happen quickly. How for example would we possibly cope with the idea of adjacent greenways alongside tracks (see sustrans links posted earlier in this thread - which show cycle tracks running alongside rail lines - with a fence between the two) - Pity this didn't happen on the Ennis Athenry line as there was room and it would have been a great long distance cycle track and of course much more cost effective to put in place as they did the new line with work taking place in tandem (again complete lack of joined up thinking), if this kind of joint rail and cycleway happened who would "own" the cycleway the local council or CIE properties. ON this issue it would also be great way of getting tourists to use the line - take the train one way cycle/walk back the other way. Alas we don't think this way.


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    #25
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 16,720 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Just on this (may have been mentioned but I missed it) the Department of Transport's recent National Cycling Policy Framework document did mention how they would envisage using disused railway lines as 'cycling highways'.


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    #26
    westtip
    Registered Users Posts: 4,282 ✭✭✭westtip


    Dónal wrote: »
    Just on this (may have been mentioned but I missed it) the Department of Transport's recent National Cycling Policy Framework document did mention how they would envisage using disused railway lines as 'cycling highways'.

    donal have you got link to the document mentioned?


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    #27
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 16,720 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    http://www.transport.ie/upload/general/11387-0.pdf

    There you go.


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    #28
    dowlingm
    Registered Users Posts: 5,310 ✭✭✭dowlingm


    In cases where farmers purchased sections of the railway couldn't the Council CPO it back? It would add a bit to cost, but CIE wouldn't have been selling to the Council for nothing and there would have been a requirement for legal cost in the straight conveyance anyway.

    One other thought - could the Transport Act 1944 be amended to allow CIE sell or lease to the Local Authority without giving dibs to the farmers?


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    #29
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,278 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    dowlingm wrote: »
    One other thought - could the Transport Act 1944 be amended to allow CIE sell or lease to the Local Authority without giving dibs to the farmers?
    Yes. Although I'm sure there'd be whinging.


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    #30
    trail man
    Registered Users Posts: 203 ✭✭trail man


    dowlingm wrote: »
    In cases where farmers purchased sections of the railway couldn't the Council CPO it back? It would add a bit to cost, but CIE wouldn't have been selling to the Council for nothing and there would have been a requirement for legal cost in the straight conveyance anyway.

    One other thought - could the Transport Act 1944 be amended to allow CIE sell or lease to the Local Authority without giving dibs to the farmers?
    yes that would be correct but the farmers are a tough bunch to play ball
    with and it would cost a fortune to buy it back and in most cases they would have purchased their bit of the line for a nominal amount of money they might even have built sheds or perhaps a house on it which would even complicate it more...
    realistically it should never have gone back to the farmers but irish politics is all about who makes the most noise without the council using its brains and using long term planning considerations in the past but that today is somewhat changing..


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    #31
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,816 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Some if not all the lines CIE sold off have sell-back clauses on them; its extremely foolish to build a structure on land with a sell back covenant against it... Most former trackbed seems just to be used for access.


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