A New Low For Cobh Ramblers

Zebra3 · 14-08-2008 10:47am

You fail to see where the advantage is by one club paying its debts and another not? :rolleyes:

OhNoYouDidn't · 14-08-2008 11:12am

Zebra3 wrote: »

You fail to see where the advantage is by one club paying its debts and another not? :rolleyes:

But Shels have not paid their debts......

CantGetNoSleep · 14-08-2008 1:11pm

I stand by my point that the league in its current state is a joke

Are there any clubs in the league that are completely stable financially? In the Premier I can't think of many. UCD maybe? Since the end of last season how many clubs have had financial problems? How many fans are worried about where their club will be should something go wrong? (Bohs/Pats/Drogs?) In the last few seasons Shels, Rovers, Dublin City, Cobh, Waterford, Limerick, Kilkenny, Longford, Sligo and a few others have all had problems with money related issues.

I still think that the league should be disbanded. A new amateur league should be created until we see those in charge being capable of handling money and running a club. I mean asking players to take out a personal loan. Spending 50k a week on wages. Where is this money coming from? Even if they were getting 10,000 through the gate every second week this would barely cover this. The level of sponsorship just doesn't exist in this country to get anything from that.

And for the record, I have never subscribed to any sports channel on TV, and have never even been to England, let alone go to a Premiership match. I have been a Waterford Utd season ticket holder all my life up to last season, as I don't live in Ireland full time anymore, and I have been to several Cork City games for each of the past few seasons

OhNoYouDidn't · 14-08-2008 1:19pm

CantGetNoSleep wrote: »

I stand by my point that the league in its current state is a joke

Are there any clubs in the league that are completely stable financially? In the Premier I can't think of many. UCD maybe? Since the end of last season how many clubs have had financial problems? How many fans are worried about where their club will be should something go wrong? (Bohs/Pats/Drogs?) In the last few seasons Shels, Rovers, Dublin City, Cobh, Waterford, Limerick, Kilkenny, Longford, Sligo and a few others have all had problems with money related issues.

I still think that the league should be disbanded. A new amateur league should be created until we see those in charge being capable of handling money and running a club. I mean asking players to take out a personal loan. Spending 50k a week on wages. Where is this money coming from? Even if they were getting 10,000 through the gate every second week this would barely cover this. The level of sponsorship just doesn't exist in this country to get anything from that.

And for the record, I have never subscribed to any sports channel on TV, and have never even been to England, let alone go to a Premiership match. I have been a Waterford Utd season ticket holder all my life up to last season, as I don't live in Ireland full time anymore, and I have been to several Cork City games for each of the past few seasons

Are you naive enough to think that financial problems are unique to the LoI?

Man City in the wealthiest league in the world are in trouble. Fiorentina nearly went bust in the second.

All you are seeing is the transparancy as the FAI get tough.

djpbarry · 14-08-2008 1:47pm

CantGetNoSleep wrote: »

Are there any clubs in the league that are completely stable financially?

Yeah, they should all follow the Chelsea model and get billionaires to bankroll them :rolleyes:.

I can't believe that there are people that think that football clubs in other countries are well-run, from a financial perspective. I'd love to see how clubs in the English Premier would cope with a wage cap.

Zebra3 · 14-08-2008 2:36pm

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

But Shels have not paid their debts......

Who have we left out of pocket?

Unlike Shamrock who left various people/companies out of pocket to the tune of over €1,000,000 with no intention of ever repaying them and got off pretty much scot free despite your stupid claim that they were hammered by the FAI. :rolleyes:

OhNoYouDidn't · 14-08-2008 3:08pm

Zebra3 wrote: »

Who have we left out of pocket?

Unlike Shamrock who left various people/companies out of pocket to the tune of over €1,000,000 with no intention of ever repaying them and got off pretty much scot free despite your stupid claim that they were hammered by the FAI. :rolleyes:

Are you saying that you repaid every cent of the €8m you owed?

You haven't, so give it a rest. This pettyness because your club was unwilling to allow the books go under the scrutiny that the examinership process would have brought.

If you could have done it our way you would.

Gavin "shels" · 14-08-2008 3:16pm

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Are you saying that you repaid every cent of the €8m you owed?

You haven't, so give it a rest. This pettyness because your club was unwilling to allow the books go under the scrutiny that the examinership process would have brought.

If you could have done it our way you would.

We have never owed €8 million, regardless of what the papers said.

It's including money which we have loaned from Ossie Kilkenny (which when Tolka is sold he gets back). It's an advance on the sale of Tolka, just like what Bohs are doing basically.

SantryRed · 14-08-2008 3:42pm

We still have debts don't we?

And we're slowly paying them back. That's the impression i was under

OhNoYouDidn't · 14-08-2008 3:53pm

SantryRed wrote: »

We still have debts don't we?

And we're slowly paying them back. That's the impression i was under

You are correct. So by Zebras logic you have an unfair advantage too

LeixlipRed · 14-08-2008 3:54pm

We have debts to other creditors but we have nett "cash" as such as the amount left to draw down from the sail of the lease dwarfes the amounts owed elsewhere.

UnitedIrishman · 14-08-2008 4:09pm

I've read through this thread and admittedly I wouldn't give a sh*t about the eircom league, but by the looks of it, the average eircom league fan needs to be an accountant these days. Where I'm situated at the minute, I'm between two clubs (Sligo and Galway) and perhaps the fact I'm not closer to either has turned me off this league but to be fair, it's going downhill at a drastic rate.

Fair enough, you could say that some sides are getting bigger like Drogheda, Bohs etc doing well in the CL. But the whole Shels thing has made everyone sceptical about how far a club can go without breaching the rules and going into something near liquidity.

Something big needs to be done with the league, revamped big time with different ideas. There are staff not good enough in the positions they are in and at the minute there's too many plasterers trying to do a chefs work.

Full-time professional football is a long way away in terms of being entirely professional and I think it's time that clubs went right back to the start with things. Paying a player €3,000 a week (highest in the league I think) is scandalous.

djpbarry · 14-08-2008 4:23pm

UnitedIrishman wrote: »

But the whole Shels thing has made everyone sceptical about how far a club can go without breaching the rules and going into something near liquidity.

What happened to Shels (and Rovers) is precisely why so many clubs are (supposedly) struggling financially at the moment - the FAI are imposing tight financial controls to ensure such situations do not arise again. However, I'm of the opinion that the media is exaggerating much of it, particularly with regard to Cork. It seems negative stories about the EL sell far more newspapers than positive.

UnitedIrishman wrote: »

Something big needs to be done with the league, revamped big time with different ideas.

No ****; now why has nobody else thought of that? :rolleyes:

UnitedIrishman wrote: »

There are staff not good enough in the positions they are in and at the minute there's too many plasterers trying to do a chefs work.

Forgive me, but that sounds like the basic "the EL is **** and so is everyone associated with it."

UnitedIrishman wrote: »

Paying a player €3,000 a week (highest in the league I think) is scandalous.

It still pales in comparison to what players can earn in Britain:

Emmet Malone wrote:

Football, of course, is a particularly virulent example of a free market, and players cannot be blamed for looking to maximise their income over short careers.

What's more, wages here are still so comparatively low that interest in a player from a major British club makes it utterly impossible to keep him.

At present, a good top-flight player - that's someone not quite seen as part of the elite but nevertheless a cut above the average - might expect to earn about €80,000 gross (though tax compliance has dramatically improved because of a variety of factors over the last few years, most deals are actually still talked about within the game in terms of net pay).

That's roughly what Paddy McCourt is said to have been on at Derry City when he left for Celtic during the summer.

His contract was in its last year and City were keen that he sign what would presumably have been a much improved one, but the Scots are believed to have offered him around 10 times as much.

Even if he doesn't make the breakthrough at the Glasgow giants that's an impossible opportunity to turn down, and it demonstrates how difficult it will be for Irish clubs to retain their best players as standards improves here.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2008/0805/1217628552618.html

CantGetNoSleep · 14-08-2008 9:48pm

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Are you naive enough to think that financial problems are unique to the LoI?

Man City in the wealthiest league in the world are in trouble. Fiorentina nearly went bust in the second.

All you are seeing is the transparancy as the FAI get tough.

No I am completely aware of financial issues in other leagues, I just feel it is proportionally much higher in Ireland. And just because other clubs in other countries have trouble with money does not make it acceptable here

Out of 24 league clubs, in the last two years two have went bankrupt and out of business completely, two more have been relegated due to money problems, and probably 10 more have serious problems

Hero Of College · 14-08-2008 10:05pm

Keano should bail them out.

BTW Cobh are known as "COBB RAMBLERS" to the Setanta Newsgirls. Remember that big ad Setanta had of people not being able to pronounce their name?? Stones and Greenhouse.

Zebra3 · 14-08-2008 10:10pm

CantGetNoSleep wrote: »

Out of 24 league clubs

Not true.

CantGetNoSleep wrote: »

in the last two years two have went bankrupt and out of business completely,

Not true.

CantGetNoSleep wrote: »

two more have been relegated due to money problems

Not true.

CantGetNoSleep wrote: »

and probably 10 more have serious problems

Hmm...maybe.

Jonny Arson · 14-08-2008 11:36pm

Zebra3 wrote: »

Hmm...maybe.

No, definitely

Cobh, Cork City, Derry City, Finn Harps, Galway United, Sligo Rovers, Athlone Town, Kildare, Waterford makes 9 clubs who have had financial problems this season. Shels still f**ked due to their debts so thats makes 10

now they're the clubs with evident current financial problems.

ive heard whispers about possible difficulties for Bray and Longford while Limerick were in trouble before the season started but they are now operating within their means on a small budget. Monaghan look dodgy also, struggling to get 100 fans in through the gates to pay a 2k a week wage bill

on top of this Bohs, Pats, Drogs, Fingal all operating on unsustainable platforms taking the mick out of the 65% turnover 'rule' while all dependent on cheques from property developers, those property developer lads are such extremely reliable and ethical chaps when it comes to football aren't they......... :rolleyes:

so that really leaves only UCD, Wexford Youths and Shamrock Rovers as the only clubs operating sustainably within their means with no obvious short to long term difficulties, out of 22 league clubs that is quite frankly shocking.

the FAI made a great start to their tenure in charge of this league by rightly punishing Shels but the mess that has proceeded under their watch since then is dispicable. football in this country desperately needs leadership now to avoid a complete meltdown in the league of ireland and the FAI are spectacularly failing to provide that (again!). i'm also absolutely stunned at the gross incompetence shown by so many clubs after Shels' spectacular meltdown, honestly could there not have ever been a better example about how NOT to run your club?

i really am ashamed about whats happening to the domestic game right now, i'm really fearful about whats ahead for the LOI. i'm not going to mention names, but there's 2 clubs in particular who i will be stunned to see playing LOI football in 2009

djpbarry · 14-08-2008 11:45pm

Jonny Arson wrote: »

Cobh, Cork City, Derry City, Finn Harps, Galway United, Sligo Rovers, Athlone Town, Kildare, Waterford makes 10 clubs who have had financial problems this season. Shels still f**ked due to their debts so thats makes 11

You fail at maths.

DSB · 15-08-2008 1:49am

CantGetNoSleep wrote: »

No I am completely aware of financial issues in other leagues, I just feel it is proportionally much higher in Ireland. And just because other clubs in other countries have trouble with money does not make it acceptable here

Out of 24 league clubs, in the last two years two have went bankrupt and out of business completely, two more have been relegated due to money problems, and probably 10 more have serious problems

Totally inaccurate, seriously do your research on the league before you have a go.

CantGetNoSleep · 15-08-2008 2:14am

DSB wrote: »

Totally inaccurate, seriously do your research on the league before you have a go.

OK so maybe I have not used the correct language, but

Kilkenny and Dublin City have disappeared completely, is this not due to money?

Shels have been relegated, I was wrong about Rovers

Do all the posters arguing here genuinely feel the league is going places when clubs are paying players up to €3,000 a week with the gate receipts at the level they are at?

djpbarry · 15-08-2008 10:04am

CantGetNoSleep wrote: »

No I am completely aware of financial issues in other leagues, I just feel it is proportionally much higher in Ireland.

What do you mean “proportionally much higher”? You mean Irish clubs are in more severe financial difficulties than clubs in other countries? I don’t know about that. Or do you mean that a greater percentage of clubs in Ireland are in financial difficulties than in other countries? Again, I doubt that’s the case. Take England for example; according to a BBC report, less than half of all Premier League clubs posted a profit in 2005/06. Outside the Premier League, reports of clubs in financial turmoil are not at all uncommon, e.g. Leeds, Luton, Cardiff, Southampton. The difference is there is more transparency in Ireland due to the FAI’s new rules.

Jonny Arson wrote: »

Cobh, Cork City, Derry City, Finn Harps, Galway United, Sligo Rovers, Athlone Town, Kildare, Waterford makes 9 clubs who have had financial problems this season.

I think it’s fair to say that pretty much every club in the league has financial “problems”, largely due to lower-than-desired attendances. That doesn’t necessarily mean that every club is having serious financial difficulties.

Jonny Arson wrote: »

the FAI made a great start to their tenure in charge of this league by rightly punishing Shels but the mess that has proceeded under their watch since then is dispicable.
...
i'm also absolutely stunned at the gross incompetence shown by so many clubs after Shels' spectacular meltdown, honestly could there not have ever been a better example about how NOT to run your club?

I think it’s pushing it a bit to suggest that there are clubs in the same sort of situation that Shels found themselves in – I think people are getting a little carried away on the back of the Cork story (which basically amounts to Arkaga trying to pull out of a legally-binding contract, from what I’ve read).

CantGetNoSleep wrote: »

Do all the posters arguing here genuinely feel the league is going places when clubs are paying players up to €3,000 a week with the gate receipts at the level they are at?

Why are gate receipts at the level they’re at? Because the league is perceived by the majority of people in this country to be of a poor standard. If wages drop, then it will be even more difficult for Irish clubs to compete with British clubs for players and hence, the standard here will most likely drop, making it even more difficult to increase attendances.

Personally, I don’t have a clue how to convince people to go to games. No matter what Irish clubs achieve in Europe, people such as yourself will continue to dismiss them as no better than “pub teams” – how many pub teams do you know could hold a team containing at least 6 Swedish internationals (Elfsborg) to a 2-2 draw away from home and in doing so, triple the number of goals said team have conceded at home this season in all competitions (one before last night)? Face it; the argument that people don’t attend EL games because the standard is poor just doesn’t stand up to scrutiny.

I already mentioned the Ireland-Cyprus game at Croke Park last year, which had an attendance of about 55,000 (I think), for what was an absolutely shocking performance. If that number of people showed up to watch EL games every weekend (i.e. average of 5,000 at every game), we’d be laughing.

20 Times 20 Times · 15-08-2008 10:10am

We ran at a profit last season , and are on course to have our best season ever.

OhNoYouDidn't · 15-08-2008 10:13am

CantGetNoSleep wrote: »

OK so maybe I have not used the correct language, but

Kilkenny and Dublin City have disappeared completely, is this not due to money?

Shels have been relegated, I was wrong about Rovers

Do all the posters arguing here genuinely feel the league is going places when clubs are paying players up to €3,000 a week with the gate receipts at the level they are at?

Fundamentally wrong.

DSB · 15-08-2008 10:47am

Do people choose to ignore the amount of English or Scottish clubs that have gone into administration or completely folded ala Scarborough recently? Or would that not suit the argument that the League Of Ireland is rubbish and nobody in their right minds would want anything to do with it. Leeds, Luton, Wimbledon, Barnsley, Swindon, Bradford, Rotherham, Bournemouth, Halifax, Peterborough, Wrexham, Cambridge, Kidderminster, Boston United have all been involved in serious financial problems recently, most of which have involved going into administration. I'm pretty sure there are more too. Those were just ones that I remembered. Do these problems not count because they aren't the Man Uniteds and Chelseas of the world who the Irish barstoolers tune into most Sundays?

People in this country really need to get a grip. If an Irish club like Shelbourne gos to bits, its because the League Of Ireland is a shambles, but if Leeds do, its no stain on the league apparently, its just their problem. If Kildare County or Kilkenny struggle to compete at the bottom of the hierarchy, that is due to the League Of Ireland being a shambles, but if Rotherham or Wrexham do, oh its just those clubs problems and what a pity it is. Cork City are symptomatic of a club that have financial difficulties because they've overspent. They'll have to drop the wage bill and stop going outside their means. It'll mean they aren't successful in the league for a few years, which is the way it has to be, but it looks like the sort of situation which will sort itself out.

People can talk about how Pats will be finished if Kelleher pulls the plug but surely that same fact rings true if Abramovich decides he has had enough at Chelsea?

Just like the hooligan issue, it is far too easy for the Irish TV Fan Brigade to pick away at the problems here at home, and ignore the problems they don't have to see through their Sky TV screen.

20 Times 20 Times · 15-08-2008 11:05am

Does no one else think its funny that a cork city supporter started a thread to criticise Cobhs financial resources. Currently CCFC are thinking of applying for examinership from the high court.

gimmick · 15-08-2008 11:18am

Just trying to deflect attention from ourselves :rolleyes:

Not to mention, our so called difficulties, as far as I see them are being exaggerated by a mostly Dublin media only too happy to belittle the LOI whenever it can.

Besides, the thrust of my starting this thread was not to criticise Cobh per se, but to raise attention to the fact that their board reckons the best way for their problems to be solved is by the players to take bank loans.

DSB · 15-08-2008 11:21am

Ah here, at least Cork are dealing with the situation properly, instead of asking their players to take 2000 loans out each. Cork's situation is far from ideal, but at least they retain some sort of dignity in it.

OhNoYouDidn't · 15-08-2008 11:42am

Sarge wrote: »

Does no one else think its funny that a cork city supporter started a thread to criticise Cobhs financial resources. Currently CCFC are thinking of applying for examinership from the high court.

I said just that. I was told I was 'bitter'.

20 Times 20 Times · 15-08-2008 11:50am

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

I said just that. I was told I was 'bitter'.

You my friend are the Dublin version of Gimmick

Zebra3 · 15-08-2008 2:15pm

gimmick wrote: »

Not to mention, our so called difficulties, as far as I see them are being exaggerated by a mostly Dublin media

Did you ever think of standing for Dáil Éireann with such a novel way of thinking? I'm sure the Cork intelligensia would lap up that sort of amazing insight. :rolleyes:

Publin · 16-08-2008 12:20pm

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

I have a €20 betting slip with Rovers to win the cup at 12 to one. Its not worth €260, although it probably will be. I can't include that in my net worth.

Fixed your post for you

.

Won a few quid on the Langers last night, they're a good side despite any rumoured off the field trouble and I was confident they'd get a result.

UnitedIrishman wrote: »

Where I'm situated at the minute, I'm between two clubs (Sligo and Galway) and perhaps the fact I'm not closer to either has turned me off this league but to be fair, it's going downhill at a drastic rate.

Downhill in what way? In terms of quality of football, media coverage or what exactly?

Jonny Arson wrote: »

i'm also absolutely stunned at the gross incompetence shown by so many clubs after Shels' spectacular meltdown, honestly could there not have ever been a better example about how NOT to run your club?

It's pretty simple really. Clubs are desperately spending big money on players they cannot afford to try and attract punters through the gates with the promise of better football on show. They're fighting a losing battle, because the barstoolers will just either continue to say "It's a sh*te league, crap standard" etc., or will come out with the gem that's being thrown out in this thread of "the clubs aren't financially viable". They'll find an excuse for not going regardless of what's done to encourage them along. The clubs are throwing crazy money at players to try to improve the standard of football in an attempt to get people to come and watch, but they're fighting a losing battle.

Jonny Arson wrote: »

i'm not going to mention names, but there's 2 clubs in particular who i will be stunned to see playing LOI football in 2009

Go on, tell us... I presume you have good reason to believe this?

CantGetNoSleep wrote: »

No I am completely aware of financial issues in other leagues, I just feel it is proportionally much higher in Ireland. And just because other clubs in other countries have trouble with money does not make it acceptable here

Out of 24 league clubs, in the last two years two have went bankrupt and out of business completely, two more have been relegated due to money problems, and probably 10 more have serious problems

Basically all of that is incorrect.

gimmick wrote: »

Not to mention, our so called difficulties, as far as I see them are being exaggerated by a mostly Dublin media

Being ridden rock solid by Dublin again, like?

Agree with you though, appears that the situation is being blown out of proportion, and the the media love a negative story on the eLOI. Especially that ***** Hyland and the Hearld newspaper that he writes for :rolleyes:.

djpbarry · 18-08-2008 12:52pm

Thought this was somewhat relevant to the discussion; Johnny Mac after the Elfsborg game:

Johnny McDonnell wrote:

They have 100,000 people in the city here, they get average gates of 10,000-12,000, for the big games they get 17,000. They get 12 per cent of the city’s population at their home games; we can’t get 12 per cent of people from Ballyfermot.

gimmick · 17-09-2008 4:54pm

All sorts of talk that ramblers are on the verge of striking at the moment. The smart money says they don't. What is certain is that there is a massive stand off between the players and the board at present.

The chairman told the players that they would not be paid again this season. Obviously the players took exception to this. On asking where the gate reciepts from this Saturdays derby will go, they were told "we owes lots of companies. Guiness and Diageo are two". On hearing this a player informed the chairman that they are the same company, the chairman accused the players of greed and should not have accepted the contracts they were offered!!!! At this stage the manager told his players to up and leave, and ripped in to the chairman for wasting everyones time and insulting their intelligence.

You could not make this kind of crap up.

DSB · 17-09-2008 4:56pm

gimmick wrote: »

All sorts of talk that ramblers are on the verge of striking at the moment. The smart money says they don't. What is certain is that there is a massive stand off between the players and the board at present.

The chairman told the players that they would not be paid again this season. Obviously the players took exception to this. On asking where the gate reciepts from this Saturdays derby will go, they were told "we owes lots of companies. Guiness and Diageo are two". On hearing this a player informed the chairman that they are the same company, the chairman accused the players of greed and should not have accepted the contracts they were offered!!!! At this stage the manager told his players to up and leave, and ripped in to the chairman for wasting everyones time and insulting their intelligence.

You could not make this kind of crap up.

Jesus thats ridiculous. No wonder there were so many people at Cobh in favour of amateur football with an idiotic chairman like that.

monkey9 · 17-09-2008 4:57pm

gimmick wrote: »

All sorts of talk that ramblers are on the verge of striking at the moment. The smart money says they don't. What is certain is that there is a massive stand off between the players and the board at present.

The chairman told the players that they would not be paid again this season. Obviously the players took exception to this. On asking where the gate reciepts from this Saturdays derby will go, they were told "we owes lots of companies. Guiness and Diageo are two". On hearing this a player informed the chairman that they are the same company, the chairman accused the players of greed and should not have accepted the contracts they were offered!!!! At this stage the manager told his players to up and leave, and ripped in to the chairman for wasting everyones time and insulting their intelligence.

You could not make this kind of crap up.

That is unbelieveable. Shouldn't have accepted the contracts they were offered?? What bullsh!t

djpbarry · 17-09-2008 5:19pm

DSB wrote: »

No wonder there were so many people at Cobh in favour of amateur football with an idiotic chairman like that.

I'm starting to think this was skewed somewhat by the media. It seems more likely that what was actually said was "Barry Walsh is a ****wit who belongs in amateur football."

EDIT: In hindsight, that seems like a bit of an insult to anyone involved in amateur football in this country.

DSB · 17-09-2008 5:23pm

I don't even know if it is an insult to people involved with amateur football, because thats clearly where his mindset is. Assuming that he can go into professional football without expecting that professionals expect a wage is just laughable, and lying to employees about why they're not being paid is just pathetic. Stuff like this just makes it much harder to defend the progression of the league.

stovelid · 17-09-2008 5:48pm

gimmick wrote: »

The chairman told the players that they would not be paid again this season. Obviously the players took exception to this. On asking where the gate reciepts from this Saturdays derby will go, they were told "we owes lots of companies.

Sounds like the board could be trying to claw back as much hard cash as possible for themselves before the sh*t hits the fan.

lee_arama · 17-09-2008 6:59pm

It would seem to me that there might be a total of a dozen posts on this thread which actually fall into 'actual contribution' range.

I'm only on this forum (soccer) a short while, but I was led to believe that the reason for the restricted access was to encourage a more expansive debate on certain topics pertaining to footballery.

What I've seen so far falls far short of that.

OT: The fact remains that Irish soccer has to contend with the more flashy product available across the water. When Liverpool, Manchester United, and Sunderland, all make their way over here for friendly/testimonials, we see tickets selling out at an incredible rate, and the ground selling out.

Needing to compete with that, the teams in the eircom League have increased, and increased, the wages received by their players until such time as they can now prevent a skill-drain to League One, and in some lucky cases, to the Championship.

However, for all the talk of what a shame it'd be if Cork and Cobh folded, there hasn't been a pro rata increase in gate receipts.

I've tried to get to as many Cork City games as I could this season, work and college permitting, and I had an absolutely fantastic time at each outing. I shall, again with events permitting, go to the Cobh v Cork game down in St Colman's on the 20th.

Apart from all of that I feel that people are missing the underlying problem here - even allowing for an incompetent owner (Arkaga) Cork City should be in a superior position to that of its other Irish rivals, simply due to being the sole team in Ireland's second city, and due to the larger crowds we see on average, and yet...

...yet Cork have been docked 10 points and been forced to sell our two main strikers. A club should have some level of self-sustinence about them, but this is not the case as it stands.

If Cork and Cobh can't survive then there's faint hope for any of the other teams in Ireland.

Gareth37 · 17-09-2008 10:38pm

lee_arama wrote: »

If Cork and Cobh can't survive then there's faint hope for any of the other teams in Ireland.

Every business in this country is struggling, 6/10 are laying people off and the other 4/10 are struggling too. So football is no different.

The problem with Ireland is the amount of Irish eejits following British teams like Celtic, Man Utd, Arsenal, Liverpool etc. It is sad.

For the record many British sides are also struggling big time.

gimmick · 18-09-2008 9:21am

There is nothing wrong with Irish people supporting English clubs. It is their own choice. I do not agree with it myself, but there you go. The problem is the eejits who belittle the domestic league without any basis for doing so besides seeing one bad game on the tv once.

stovelid · 18-09-2008 11:11am

lee_arama wrote: »

Cork City should be in a superior position to that of its other Irish rivals, simply due to being the sole team in Ireland's second city, and due to the larger crowds we see on average, and yet...

...yet Cork have been docked 10 points and been forced to sell our two main strikers. A club should have some level of self-sustinence about them, but this is not the case as it stands.

If Cork and Cobh can't survive then there's faint hope for any of the other teams in Ireland.

Cork have comparatively big gates for the LOI. And pathetic gates in comparison to cities in other countries.

They are not the type of gates that can bankroll stupid wages and inflated expectations of European success: the real source of the current mess.

The sooner a few of the clubs in this league accept that we have to build up our crowds (as opposed to relying on weasel speculators) until professional setups are financially viable, the better. If that means some clubs have to take the medicine of relegation and insolvency, so be it.

The win-the-league-at-all-costs-and-fuck-your-rival pipe dreams need to end if our league is going to survive.

gimmick wrote: »

There is nothing wrong with Irish people supporting English clubs. It is their own choice. I do not agree with it myself, but there you go. The problem is the eejits who belittle the domestic league without any basis for doing so besides seeing one bad game on the tv once.

+1

We need to convince people that they can support an English team, but can still be proud of their local club.

Gareth37 · 18-09-2008 12:51pm

For me supporting a team should be something that you do along with your work collegues and friends. In Ireland it seems to be a sad "slagging ritual" where co-workers try to score points on each other by choosing the "right" British club to "support".

Supporting a club should be about uniting with your friends and family and to have pride in supporting your team together through bad or really bad times.

The only people I see supporting British teams outside Britain is stupid Asians (especially during the Beckham era :rolleyes:) and stupid Irish people.

Im pretty sure that Danish and Dutch people don't support British clubs and they are probably closer to the Brits than Ireland.

Zebra3 · 18-09-2008 1:38pm

stovelid wrote: »

Cork have comparatively big gates for the LOI. And pathetic gates in comparison to cities in other countries.

They are not the type of gates that can bankroll stupid wages and inflated expectations of European success: the real source of the current mess.

The sooner a few of the clubs in this league accept that we have to build up our crowds (as opposed to relying on weasel speculators) until professional setups are financially viable, the better. If that means some clubs have to take the medicine of relegation and insolvency, so be it.

The win-the-league-at-all-costs-and-fuck-your-rival pipe dreams need to end if our league is going to survive.

+1

We need to convince people that they can support an English team, but can still be proud of their local club.

Spot on.

RebelRockChick · 18-09-2008 3:35pm

Been hearing that the players have offered to play for free for the rest of the season now, providing they get paid all the back money at the end of the season since the club refuse to pay them. Shocking at first but with the way other clubs are going in the league it's not entirely a surprise. I certainly hope the players do get their money in the end!

Also last week, John Meade resigned his position as trustee and head of the finance commitee. Apparently he wanted to have a meeting, something about letting club members know about their current financial situation, and of course the chairman didn't allow him to do so.

A New Low For Cobh Ramblers

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