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Difficulty connecting with her
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27-07-2014 8:55pm#1There is a longterm issue between myself and my wife of 15+ yrs.
She has no real interest in the physical side of our relationship and it is a topic which is very difficult to bring up with her.
It is very rare for her to show me physical affection.
Even when we accidentally brush past each other (say in the kitchen) she apologises rather than openly savour it as something positive.
I could go on for ages about this and how I've tried to address it.
What I want to get off my chest now is just how frustrating I find trying to reconnect with her in any case.
I am beginning to wonder about how I express my masculinity and even appreciate her for the woman she is.
After all she is the mother of my two smart and beautiful children now approaching 12 and 14.
Is it normal that (as a man) I cannot sustain good feelings about her because I am taking lust out of the equation.
For me as a man - sexual attraction seems an inherent part of loving a woman.
I find myself suppressing this. Even when I look at her undressing or in night clothes because I've conditioned myself to the fact that she so rarely wants to cuddle or be romantic. I feel like I am shutting out a big part of what it is to be a heterosexual male.
Just to be clear I have no confusion about my sexuality. It is that in my circumstances I have a coping strategy of lowering my expectations of my wife because the chemistry has all but gone and I doubt that I can rekindle it from my end.
Again.. my question is.. is it normal for a man to feel disconnected once lust is taken out of the equation.
In my mind the fact that I could feel lusty about her (not 24/7 but at least something that I haven't got to shut-off to cope) should be a big compliment to her.
I just feel like she has become comfortable being asexual and it is killing me (and our relationship).1
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I am not a man but I think that intimacy is very important in a relationship, for me this is the connection you talk about.
A part of intimacy is sex, Sex is a physical expression of intimacy in my opinion. Physical affection is another
So if you take away sex and physical affection out of the equation, I think it makes sense that the intimacy or connection dies.
Can you really stay in a relationship like this?
It sounds like the relatioship I have with my flatmates rather than a marraige.0 -
Have you spoken with her on this issue, perhaps she is not aware of how deeply this is causing problems in your marriage....
Could you broach the subject, then suggest both of you attending marriage therapy?0 -
I have broached the issue with her over the years.
Occasionally there is a very short term improvement and everything lapses back very soon into an asexual vibe.
As years go on - broaching it has become more difficult.
She becomes more and more defensive and flies off the handle.
She makes me feel bad for having raised it and even when I try to portray it as a shared issue rather it being a one-sided blame thing she is still very defensive.
I find that I am trying to keep family life tolerable by seeing the good sides in her.
I find it very difficult and challenging to cast aside my physical attraction for her and yet feel comfortable around her.
I've never cheated on her, thank God.
It is hard for me to appreciate her physically when I know that there is something preventing her from wanting to be with my physical at even the most basic frequency of times.
I do find my mind wandering into the regions of grass being greener elsewhere.
Sorry if this is vague. I can be more explicit but I think you get the picture.0 -
This is waaay beyond any advice I could credibly give but I guess all you can do is try to keep talking to her about it or counselling. I don't mean to nag her but raise the issue and try get to her to address it...even to acknowledge that it's important to you, if not for her.0
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Well your here asking about it so no its not possible and you have not accepted it anyway, you have put it in a box but look in at it from time to time, It is very unhealthy accepting something that is not what you want.
It is very unhealthy for you, for your wife and for your kids, kids when they see parents being loving and affectionate with each other soak that up and that translates into them doing similar when they are older, sadly they also can be the same when they see to cold yet functioning parents around each other.
You need to have an open and no holds bar talk with your wife and if needed then therapy and if she refuses to discuss, get help or work on this massive problem then there is really only one way left, obviously exhaust all possibilities before even contemplating that.
One piece of if advice I will give you is this: Sometimes one partner will promises the world in order to pacify the situation and will be affectionate in the short term but it will go back to their normality soon enough and this cycle will continue until you are back at square one and years of unhappiness has gone by, don't fall into that trap.
What you could suggest to your wife as a beginning is to refrain from sex for awhile (easy enough as that is what is happening) but to become intimate, hold hands when out, cuddle while watching TV, spoon before sleeping, Kissing while making the dinner or anywhere really, a peck, a snog, a frenchie.
Massage each other even with clothes on, feet rubs, go for walks together hand in hand, go for a pint together, catch a gig, hold hands, kiss etc etc.
Sometimes sex goes because all the little things like above mentioned disappear and they are really the starter to the mains and dessert that is sex, get that back and hopefully you will become happier because a life without intimacy is a wasted life.0 -
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You're in a similar situation to what I was in, although longer term.
I was with my girlfriend for 5 years, during that time we probably had sex 4-5 times a year on average. Whenever I'd broach the subject it was always my fault for making her uncomfortable being intimate with me. She would complain for days after we had sex and made me feel guilty for wanting to have sex in the first place.
All that I can tell you is that since I'm out of the situation my confidence has improved so much. In a relationship sex is like oil in machinery, with it the whole thing will eventually seize.
Now I realise your situation is totally different in that you have kids but I'm going to call a spade a spade. If this isn't resolved it will impact on your relationship and I would find it very hard to see how you wouldn't stray. I suppose couples counselling could be an option if she would go? Otherwise some hard decisions need to be made, are you really willing to live the rest of your life in an unhappy marriage?0 -
What is her reason for feeling like this and acting this way? Did this change when she had children? Is she willing to go to a dr and have her bloods checked out or her hormone levels investigated? Without getting into the realm of medical advice I wonder if it's possible she had an undiagnosed post natal depression?
This has been going on so long that you really might want to consider getting in touch with a relationship counsellor.0 -
I don't believe she had PN depression.
Our kids are now 11 & 13.
She never specifically went to GP to check blood with respect to this problem.
She did however get her thyroid function checked at one stage because 2 of her siblings had issues with thyroid but hers came back clear.
Last night she went to bed at 1.20am and similar previous night - she is on hols from work at the moment.
It would be a time for "us" time but instead she is watching tv late and then looking at news sites on the iPhone late when in bed.
Today she is on a house tidyup crusade.
The house isn't in the least bit dirty, it is just re-arranging stuff for putting into a skip later this month.
However, I can see she will do this for hours and hours and will gasp tired at the end of it.
When I've mentioned counselling in the past she bluntly refused to attend and she was very defensive as if I was trying to set it up as all her problems.
No amount of talking could appease her view on that.
When I mention it she uses the divorce card - and I know she doesn't mean it.
It is to deflect from addressing the issue.
Typically there is a climb down from her a day later and some thawing and no mention of divorce at all - everything goes back to civil (mostly on account of my patience).
Then the abstinence creeps back for months on end.0 -
It sounds like you lived in my house - 10 years ago. It won't get any better because your OH couldn't be bothered to be intimate with you. She knows you probably won't leave your kids, so divorce is not an option.westernerlad wrote: »I don't believe she had PN depression.
Our kids are now 11 & 13.
She never specifically went to GP to check blood with respect to this problem.
She did however get her thyroid function checked at one stage because 2 of her siblings had issues with thyroid but hers came back clear.
Last night she went to bed at 1.20am and similar previous night - she is on hols from work at the moment.
It would be a time for "us" time but instead she is watching tv late and then looking at news sites on the iPhone late when in bed.
Today she is on a house tidyup crusade.
The house isn't in the least bit dirty, it is just re-arranging stuff for putting into a skip later this month.
However, I can see she will do this for hours and hours and will gasp tired at the end of it.
When I've mentioned counselling in the past she bluntly refused to attend and she was very defensive as if I was trying to set it up as all her problems.
No amount of talking could appease her view on that.
When I mention it she uses the divorce card - and I know she doesn't mean it.
It is to deflect from addressing the issue.
Typically there is a climb down from her a day later and some thawing and no mention of divorce at all - everything goes back to civil (mostly on account of my patience).
Then the abstinence creeps back for months on end.
She can stonewall you on the whole thing because you are essentially trapped. And she has the apparatus of the law etc. to back her up so that even if you pull the trigger and go the seperation / divorce route you'll end up paying for a second home to live in and get to see your kids a few times a month.
I suggest that you accept that your wife was raised in a home that considered intimacy to be unacceptable and that she will not change. In fact if she is like my OH she'll have a few friends that will back her up and tell her how little intimacy they have with their partners.
Take some consolation that she probably won't have an affair if she is conditioned that way.
That essentially leaves you with either :-
put up with no intimacy for the rest of your natural ( 'cause if think your OH is suddenly going to develop an interest in intimacy in her 50s or 60s then think again ),
go for seperation / divorce etc and get your life back together,
have an affair and hope you dont get caught / fall in love etc, or *whispering* use prostitutes for sex.
The divorce option is probably best in the longer run although it does cause huge pain and grief in the short term, and will probably affect the kids very badly. But at the end of it all you'll get a life and possibly someone who could be bothered to be with you and meet you halfway on your needs.0 -
You need to have a more serious chat with her and don't let her fob you off. I was in the same boat as you except I'm female and not married, no kids. It does have a huge effect on you. Months and months had passed for me. I wanted sex so bad but only with him. I was even narky with people I was so upset. Then one day I brought it up in a more serious way and there were results, let's say. I just hope it continues and doesn't slacken again.
I hope things get better for you, try talk to her today!0 -
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You need to have a more serious chat with her and don't let her fob you off. I was in the same boat as you except I'm female and not married, no kids. It does have a huge effect on you. Months and months had passed for me. I wanted sex so bad but only with him. I was even narky with people I was so upset. Then one day I brought it up in a more serious way and there were results, let's say. I just hope it continues and doesn't slacken again.
I hope things get better for you, try talk to her today!
OP here - I created a boards.ie account as guest posts were taking much too long to appear.
I definitely can empathise with the narkiness.
It can become a vicious circle.
The more happy go lucky and reasonably outgoing person I was has been diminished a lot and I really do put a lot down to keeping a lid on this issue.
I think jcon1913's post has the situation fairly summarised.
She will stonewall the discussion and make me feel awful for having raised it.
I looked at your posts Marie regarding your situation.
Similar in that it was about counting how many times per year than per month.
In one way it is not the sex so much that I crave but just the feeling of being desired.
That probably sounds wishy-washy or even needy from a male but we all have our needs taken care of to some extent.
We were both just on a short but nice family holiday so we are a functional family unit.
She is off work for another 10 days. No passion or holding hands while away but that is somewhat understandible given we were sleeping (kids and us) in slightly close living quarters.
Now that we are back a few days there is no sign of anything.
I've no idea why I even have any hopes up but I am fighting off this other devil on my back which is the one of finding someone else while I know logically that is not right.
jcon1913 - I really think you probably hit the nail on the head about upbringing.
It is the only way I can rationalise her behaviour over the years.
Her parents are together but they are real traditionalists with judgemental views on morality,etc.
The tragedy is that this will probably impact a 3rd generation , ie. my kids ...sigh0 -
It sounds like you lived in my house - 10 years ago. It won't get any better because your OH couldn't be bothered to be intimate with you. She knows you probably won't leave your kids, so divorce is not an option.
jcon1913 :
Many thanks for your insightful post.
Just out of interest how did you end up "coping" with the situation ?
Did you just come to an acceptance and remain married or did you go down another route ?0 -
Eh, I stayed put, and got to see my kids growing up. I think I wimped out some days, but then I remember - we aren't here necessarily to be happy, just contented. So I settle for contented.westernlad4x wrote: »jcon1913 :
Many thanks for your insightful post.
Just out of interest how did you end up "coping" with the situation ?
Did you just come to an acceptance and remain married or did you go down another route ?
My OH has her ups and downs in many other ways but imtimacy is not one of her strong points.
A few times I raised the issue with her I was made to feel like a pervert, I wasn't attractive / was too heavy and out of shape / yadda yadda yadda. It was always my fault.
I discussed this with nobody, but of course she went into all the gory details with her pals so she had plenty of back-up and got tons of sympathy.
I could have had affairs but decided not to - the thought of having to maintain that as well as a relationship with my OH and kids and my own family just wrecked my head.
One of my friends was basically marched down the divorce route - he's happy enough now 5 years on but he wasn't a happy man at the time.
Anyhow thats just my tuppence worth.0 -
Eh, I stayed put, and got to see my kids growing up. I think I wimped out some days, but then I remember - we aren't here necessarily to be happy, just contented. So I settle for contented.
My OH has her ups and downs in many other ways but imtimacy is not one of her strong points.
A few times I raised the issue with her I was made to feel like a pervert, I wasn't attractive / was too heavy and out of shape / yadda yadda yadda. It was always my fault.
I discussed this with nobody, but of course she went into all the gory details with her pals so she had plenty of back-up and got tons of sympathy.
I could have had affairs but decided not to - the thought of having to maintain that as well as a relationship with my OH and kids and my own family just wrecked my head.
One of my friends was basically marched down the divorce route - he's happy enough now 5 years on but he wasn't a happy man at the time.
Anyhow thats just my tuppence worth.
Hi jcon,
Thanks for your wise tuppence.
I surmised that you probably let sleeping dogs lie.
It is very very challenging.
You probably are like me.
Quite moral and not at all inclined to cheat.
I find myself battling with my conscience and it takes a lot out of me emotionally.
Is your wife from a conservative background?0 -
Yeah I have let sleeping dogs lie.westernlad4x wrote: »Hi jcon,
Thanks for your wise tuppence.
I surmised that you probably let sleeping dogs lie.
It is very very challenging.
You probably are like me.
Quite moral and not at all inclined to cheat.
I find myself battling with my conscience and it takes a lot out of me emotionally.
Is your wife from a conservative background?
I have stayed faithful, it gets easier but...the wasted years, I dunno. I wouldn't do it any different now that I know what I know, coz I would have missed the kids growing up.
Her background is dysfunctional alocholic parents ( both of them ), both gone from this life now. They weren't conservative as such - but they did have seperate rooms. So my missus is living the dream there I guess.:):):)
Anyhows like I said no regrets on hanging around for the kids, but it could have been more pleasant.0 -
Having grown up in a house where there was - and still is - no real intimacy I would suggest that you give some consideration to how this may impact your children. In my family the situation was slightly different, but the outcome was separate bedrooms for my parents, lots of arguments/emotional explosions when any suggestions were made about changing things and a situation that everyone learned to accept. I think my father made the same decision about sticking around for us, his children, but I would love for him to have had a more fulfilling relationship. He feels that he's done pretty well - two adult children that he's mad about and we'd do anything for him. I would honestly loved to have seen both my parents have a happier relationships - with each other or someone else. I'm 33 now and it makes me sad to think that won't happen. It's affected my brother and I in different ways. He sees relationships as 'hassle' and can't seem to let someone in. Maybe he hasn't seen a good example of it happening or seen how it can work. Just something to consider. You teach your children by your own example.0
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similarstory wrote: »Having grown up in a house where there was - and still is - no real intimacy I would suggest that you give some consideration to how this may impact your children. In my family the situation was slightly different, but the outcome was separate bedrooms for my parents, lots of arguments/emotional explosions when any suggestions were made about changing things and a situation that everyone learned to accept. I think my father made the same decision about sticking around for us, his children, but I would love for him to have had a more fulfilling relationship. He feels that he's done pretty well - two adult children that he's mad about and we'd do anything for him. I would honestly loved to have seen both my parents have a happier relationships - with each other or someone else. I'm 33 now and it makes me sad to think that won't happen. It's affected my brother and I in different ways. He sees relationships as 'hassle' and can't seem to let someone in. Maybe he hasn't seen a good example of it happening or seen how it can work. Just something to consider. You teach your children by your own example.
Yeah some fair points, in some ways staying stuck in a relationship is not constructive. Anyway I think on balance its better for me and my kids that I stayed.
I dont have permanent rows with my OH just there is no intimacy. I think she sees it as a chore she can avoid. I pay the bills and stay out of her way, we share a bed thats all. Other than that we are like flatmates.0 -
Yeah some fair points, in some ways staying stuck in a relationship is not constructive. Anyway I think on balance its better for me and my kids that I stayed.
I dont have permanent rows with my OH just there is no intimacy. I think she sees it as a chore she can avoid. I pay the bills and stay out of her way, we share a bed thats all. Other than that we are like flatmates.
I know for sure that it was a lot better for us that my father stayed. He's a selfless man in a lot of ways and he always put us first. That was actually part of the problem! As an adult now and their daughter, I think they both deserved happier, more intimate relationships. I feel sad that they missed out on that. And I think it's impacted our view on what to expect from relationships and married life.
Your children are lucky to have you; you sound like a great dad who values his children.0 -
In a way I kind of find the withholding of intimacy quite controlling as in 'I'll decide when we'll be intimate'. Maybe I'm wrong but the few times it does happen it will be on their terms. Saying that I am very much in love.
Op, it's not the sex for me it's the closeness and intimacy just the 3 letter word was faster to type.
I know myself I feel more sexy and have an extra zing after being that close.
I do feel for those of you who have kids and are married, tougher than my situation. Is there any way you can talk again and don't let her put it all back on you. i think you said she mentions divorce but you know she'd never want that. I still think you need to force the issue more.0 -
Was having problems with my (ex) wife and when I finally broached the situation and she told me she wasn't physically attracted to me anymore that was it. Theres no going coming back from that. A marriage with no intimacy isn't a marriage its a houseshare. That said we have no kids and no mortgage so no ties.
I moved out, we're legally seperated. We meet up every now and again for a coffee and get on better than ever ! Go figure...
Lifes too short to live in a sexless marriage. I know its hard if theres children involved but for your own sanity just go and work out some arrangement re the kids.0 -
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In a way I kind of find the withholding of intimacy quite controlling as in 'I'll decide when we'll be intimate'. Maybe I'm wrong but the few times it does happen it will be on their terms. Saying that I am very much in love.
Op, it's not the sex for me it's the closeness and intimacy just the 3 letter word was faster to type.
I know myself I feel more sexy and have an extra zing after being that close.
I do feel for those of you who have kids and are married, tougher than my situation. Is there any way you can talk again and don't let her put it all back on you. i think you said she mentions divorce but you know she'd never want that. I still think you need to force the issue more.
Yeah I think all the things mentioned by previous posters about trying to rekindle the relationship are good.
But sometimes I reckon when the little gestures start the OH has the 'here we go again, hes interested in starting something and I couldn't be bothered'. Then its a row or change the subject.
In Ireland men and prob women are way slower to get divorced. In the UK no man - or woman - would put up with the crap that Irish people put up with. They just get divorced and move on.0 -
But sometimes I reckon when the little gestures start the OH has the 'here we go again, hes interested in starting something and I couldn't be bothered'. Then its a row or change the subject.
Gosh , the "here we go again" thing is *so* familiar.
I think there is a phrase "Irish divorce".
It is where the couple stay together usually for sake of kids but all spark is gone and at least one partner isn't bothered to work on the marriage.0 -
westernlad4x wrote: »Gosh , the "here we go again" thing is *so* familiar.
I think there is a phrase "Irish divorce".
It is where the couple stay together usually for sake of kids but all spark is gone and at least one partner isn't bothered to work on the marriage.
Sorry to come across as so cynical. In real life Im a lot more happy-go-lucky.
Yeah Irish divorce. My grandfather went to the UK in the 1940s and just never came back now thats an Irish divorce. He just sent money back every week.
My version is where all the family is sitting down for dinner and one person says " ask you father to pass me the salt". And the reply is "tell your mother to get stuffed".
Anyway look in relation to your current situation intimacy is not the be all and end all and you can reach compromise uf you stick with it. Like I said contentment is the goal. And your kids will thank you in the end, and thats worth a lot.0 -
my 2c,,
Intimacy is a huge part of a relationship...
I remember when my ex didn't want the phsyical side at the end.. when we were pretty much 4-5 times a week... it knocked my confidence and made me feel less of a woman.. it was his stuff not mine.. when we seperated, I seen that it wasn't me.. however, I still suffer from low self esteem so maybe it has had an impact ...
you are enabling her.. sort it and be done with it... no point in walking around with a broken marriage on your back.. you both deserve to be happy.. a relationship is were both parties RELATE!
i have compassion for your partner.. but she has issues she needs to sort out... it is not fair on you... you need to become more assertive and get things to change... for both your sakes..
wishing you all the best.. you deserve happiness and pls god you will get it! :-)0 -
Don't give up just yet keep doing your best BUT after you've have exhausted all possibilities .........Promise to be responsible for your own happiness.
Live your life and not live for your childrens. I believe this is one of the best life lessons you can give as example to your children if you dare. After all would you wish for them to be in a relationship like yours in the future?
Would you not prefer for them to know that the greatest parts in a relationship is willingly sharing love, warmth and true respect for each others feelings ?
Give to yourself what you would certainly want for your kids future partnerships and be brave about it don't sell yourself short!0
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