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Young driver insurance

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Comments

  • #52
    piperh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 989 ✭✭✭piperh


    Quick follow up. I called insurance today and they said it makes no difference as to the registered owner, I asked if they would pay out value of car and they said yes and it was then my responsibility to recoup off the insured.


  • #53
    oldyouth
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,754 ✭✭✭oldyouth


    Piperh, can I ask were you talking to your insurance company or your broker?


  • #54
    piperh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 989 ✭✭✭piperh


    oldyouth wrote: »
    Piperh, can I ask were you talking to your insurance company or your broker?

    The insurance company, don't use a broker. We've kept the car with the same insurer since we bought it. My son does still live at home and it was only afterwards I thought I should've asked if this made a difference.


  • #55
    oldyouth
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,754 ✭✭✭oldyouth


    I would seriously urge you to get that advice in writing. You have done everything by the book, but it doesn't get away from the fact that the current situation is wrong. It is a basic principle of every insurance policy that you cannot insure the property of another person (spouses are deemed to be a single legal entity)

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insurable_interest


  • #56
    Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,964 ✭✭✭Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime


    oldyouth wrote: »
    I would seriously urge you to get that advice in writing. You have done everything by the book, but it doesn't get away from the fact that the current situation is wrong. It is a basic principle of every insurance policy that you cannot insure the property of another person (spouses are deemed to be a single legal entity)

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insurable_interest

    But also to be careful how they word it too.

    I mean it could be perfectly fine , we're not saying you're wrong or anything but you just want to cover your own ass !


  • #57
    quadrifoglio verde
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,670 ✭✭✭quadrifoglio verde


    djimi wrote: »
    Fronting is (and always has been) an issue in this country, but in situations like yours it is only part of a bigger issue. The real issue is that young inexperienced drivers are able to get insured in any capacity on high performance cars. Fronting is bad enough, but if you change the situation around a bit, you could well have a situation where a teenage learner is insured on their fathers M3, and even though Daddy is the primary driver, you still have a learner driving around (perfectly legally) in an M3.

    What needs to happen is a restriction needs to be put on the licensing system to limit what people can drive based on their experience. I know we dont use insurance groups in Ireland, but something like that would be a good benchmark; you can only drive up to say group 5 on a learners permit, up to group 10 while on a N plate, and then on an increasing scale based on experience built up (Im only using those groups as an example; I have no idea what cars are actually in each group). This would stop a 17 year old learner driving a type R Integra, because even if they could otherwise find an insurer who would offer them a policy (be it main driver or named), they would not be legally able to drive a group 35 car on a learners permit. Tie this back to insurers (ie make it impossible to insure a car that you are not licensed to drive) and it sorts the issue in a hurry.

    Im sure that people will be on to bemoan the "nanny state" menality of such an idea, but something really has to be done to prevent people from driving cars that are beyond their ability and experience. Right now anybody in Ireland can drive the most powerful car that they are able to afford to insure, but and whether they are playing by the rules or not, the reality is that there are insured to drive the car and nobody is really stepping in any asking why teenagers and particularly leaners are (legally or otherwise) allowed to drive serious performance cars provided they can shell out what the insurance company wants from them. Its utter madness and badly needs to be looked at.

    You don't even need to afford to insure it. When I was 19 I got my full licence. Being insured with liberty on a polo, gave me 3rd party extension to drive any car once I had the owners permission and it was privately owned.

    So insurance was 1500 for the year on polo, but covered me to drive anything.

    I'd argue that you should have to have 2 years Ncb in your own name before you're covered on anything else. You've demonstrated that you're a safe driver through the Ncb and should be rewarded as a result. Another person mentioned 30 years old, but just because you're 30 doesn't mean that you're safe or good. Ncb does give an insight.
    The idea of covering someone like me who had 1 years Ncb and a full licence for 2 weeks to drive an e60 m5 is ludacrous though.


  • #58
    djimi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,237 ✭✭✭✭djimi


    quadrifoglio verde wrote: »
    You don't even need to afford to insure it. When I was 19 I got my full licence. Being insured with liberty on a polo, gave me 3rd party extension to drive any car once I had the owners permission and it was privately owned.

    So insurance was 1500 for the year on polo, but covered me to drive anything.

    I'd argue that you should have to have 2 years Ncb in your own name before you're covered on anything else. You've demonstrated that you're a safe driver through the Ncb and should be rewarded as a result. Another person mentioned 30 years old, but just because you're 30 doesn't mean that you're safe or good. Ncb does give an insight.
    The idea of covering someone like me who had 1 years Ncb and a full licence for 2 weeks to drive an e60 m5 is ludacrous though.

    That must have changed in recent times; when I was starting out I think my first policy gave me third party extension cover on cars only up to 1.6L. Madness really allowing a young inexperienced driver to get behind the wheel of whatever they can get their hands on.

    Im not sure that NCB is the best indicator tbh, purely based on the fact that someone could have a learners permit for three years, could use the car only occasionally for lessons or whatever and still build up three years or NCB. I know having a full license for a period of time also does not guarantee that the driver has actually been driving during that period, but at least it shows they can pass their test!


  • #59
    quadrifoglio verde
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,670 ✭✭✭quadrifoglio verde


    djimi wrote: »
    That must have changed in recent times; when I was starting out I think my first policy gave me third party extension cover on cars only up to 1.6L. Madness really allowing a young inexperienced driver to get behind the wheel of whatever they can get their hands on.

    Im not sure that NCB is the best indicator tbh, purely based on the fact that someone could have a learners permit for three years, could use the car only occasionally for lessons or whatever and still build up three years or NCB. I know having a full license for a period of time also does not guarantee that the driver has actually been driving during that period, but at least it shows they can pass their test!

    Oh agreed but arbitrarily saying that cars of a certain category should be restricted based on age and not on experience (which Ncb and years a full licence is held do) isn't going to work either.
    There's very few who'd take out a policy in their own name at 17/18 and only use the car once a week for driving lessons.


  • #60
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 24,714 ✭ [Deleted User]


    djimi wrote: »
    That must have changed in recent times; when I was starting out I think my first policy gave me third party extension cover on cars only up to 1.6L.

    My first insurance in my own name was on a small car-van with Quinn about 8 or 9 years ago and there was no stipulation. In fact I've never see any restriction on any policy I've had in relation to engine size.


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  • #61
    djimi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,237 ✭✭✭✭djimi


    Israel Muscular Sauna wrote: »
    My first insurance in my own name was on a small car-van with Quinn about 8 or 9 years ago and there was no stipulation. In fact I've never see any restriction on any policy I've had in relation to engine size.

    It was about 11-12 years ago that I had my first policy. Was insured with ARB initially then I think Axa. I cant remember the details but one of them was definitely restricted. It was only for a year or two so it may have been with ARB at the time.


  • #62
    djimi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,237 ✭✭✭✭djimi


    quadrifoglio verde wrote: »
    Oh agreed but arbitrarily saying that cars of a certain category should be restricted based on age and not on experience (which Ncb and years a full licence is held do) isn't going to work either.
    There's very few who'd take out a policy in their own name at 17/18 and only use the car once a week for driving lessons.

    Youre probably right. I agree on age; it means nothing really in terms of experience (except that perhaps an older driver has a bit more common sense than a teenager!).


  • #63
    H3llR4iser
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,028 ✭✭✭H3llR4iser


    djimi wrote: »
    ...but something like that would be a good benchmark; you can only drive up to say group 5 on a learners permit, up to group 10 while on a N plate, and then on an increasing scale based on experience built up (Im only using those groups as an example...

    Let's be brutally honest: the simple fact somebody that has no driving license (the learner's permit is not a driving license, they even changed the name to better drive the point home) can buy a car and get insurance on it is simply insane. Learners should be restricted to practicing on a driving school's car (with dual controls) or on a relative's car, which would also clear the "unaccompanied learner drivers" issue out (no parent/uncle/whatever would let a learner driver out alone in the car they need to go to work in the morning).

    I completely agree with the power/car category limitation; In some EU countries, it has been in place for decades (when I got my license, in 1999, my dad's Alfa was off-limits for three years - young drivers couldn't be in control of anything with more than 50 HP/tonne).


  • #64
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 24,714 ✭ [Deleted User]


    H3llR4iser wrote: »
    (no parent/uncle/whatever would let a learner driver out alone in the car they need to go to work in the morning).

    .

    Countless people I know, including myself and other siblings drove parents cars unaccompanied when learning so don't think the above comment would hold in many situations.


  • #65
    oldyouth
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,754 ✭✭✭oldyouth


    Nobody on a learners permit can currently drive unaccompanied. The fact that the law is not enforced, makes it a poor piece of legislation. People need to start being put off the road for offending.

    (blah, blah no public transport, kids to schools, need it for work to pay my mortgage, I'm a brilliant driver, old dears on the road, blah, blah)


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