Goodbye Free Water Today's The Last Day

bladespin · 30-09-2014 11:05am

Quick question based on one of the above posts, as IW are now taking responsibility for water supply do they now become liable for any damage or illness caused by their product?

endacl · 30-09-2014 11:05am

filbert the fox wrote: »

Where is the signature section please ?? didn't appear on the two forms I received.

p.s. Say it doesn't rain for another month, if we don't get the product we're paying for can we go to the small claims court?

Careful now...

Irish Water will have actual legal staff, who understand contract law, and who's clarity and grammar is better than what was posted!

Re small claims court. That won't apply unless you've first tried an Apache rain dance. There's a precedence. I'll see if I can dig it out for you...

renofan · 30-09-2014 11:07am

My question is are Irish Water driving around Ireland today taking everyone's readings? How else can they start charging from tomorrow if they have no starting point? I'll be taking a reading later anyways....

dan1895 · 30-09-2014 11:08am

renofan wrote: »

My question is are Irish Water driving around Ireland today taking everyone's readings? How else can they start charging from tomorrow if they have no starting point? I'll be taking a reading later anyways....

Serious question. How do you take a reading?

bladespin · 30-09-2014 11:09am

renofan wrote:

My question is are Irish Water driving around Ireland today taking everyone's readings? How else can they start charging from tomorrow if they have no starting point? I'll be taking a reading later anyways....

Are the meters properly calibrated, no mention of my meter's calibration cert in the info pack but then the pack is pretty generic.

BoJack Horseman · 30-09-2014 11:10am

renofan wrote: »

My question is are Irish Water driving around Ireland today taking everyone's readings? How else can they start charging from tomorrow if they have no starting point? I'll be taking a reading later anyways....

Readings don't start till next year AFAIK.

The Oct-Dec charge is just a flat rate.

endacl · 30-09-2014 11:11am

renofan wrote: »

My question is are Irish Water driving around Ireland today taking everyone's readings? How else can they start charging from tomorrow if they have no starting point? I'll be taking a reading later anyways....

Make sure you're wearing a hi-viz and carrying a clipboard!

renofan · 30-09-2014 11:13am

dan1895 wrote: »

Serious question. How do you take a reading?

I took a reading two weeks ago for mine and a neighbour (who asked me to). I've not had a chance to take another to see what we used in the time period but will do later.

All I did was get a flat head screwdriver, opened the black cover, lifted out the foam frost protector and took a photo of the meter.

mikeym · 30-09-2014 11:15am

Irish Water sent the application pack to my old address and I have no intention in filling it out.

LAndlords are going to have trouble if their tenants dont want to sign up to Irish water.

dobsdave · 30-09-2014 11:16am

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Readings don't start till next year AFAIK.

The Oct-Dec charge is just a flat rate.

You'll be charged based on use, up to the cap.
So for the next nine months, there will be a max charge no matter how much you use.

dobsdave · 30-09-2014 11:18am

mikeym wrote: »

Irish Water sent the application pack to my old address and I have no intention in filling it out.

LAndlords are going to have trouble if their tenants dont want to sign up to Irish water.

How will it affect the landlord?
The bill will be to the occupier. and then they'll severely reduce the supply if the bill isnt paid

cena · 30-09-2014 11:18am

Well they not be sending out a bill for payment beside direct debit.

endacl · 30-09-2014 11:19am

mikeym wrote: »

Irish Water sent the application pack to my old address and I have no intention in filling it out.

LAndlords are going to have trouble if their tenants dont want to sign up to Irish water.

Nah. Tenants are going to have problems when their supply is cut off.

recylingbin · 30-09-2014 11:21am

I've had 10 showers already today.
Take that Phil Hogan!!!

cena · 30-09-2014 11:24am

endacl wrote: »

Nah. Tenants are going to have problems when their supply is cut off.

I could see people buying a fire hose and using that water for free or how would that work

allthedoyles · 30-09-2014 11:30am

Funny thing is that our bill is 483 euro annually , and it has been said that people that do not register will only pay 424 euro annually

Egginacup · 30-09-2014 11:35am

I would really like someone to give me a good reason as to why one has to pay for water in Ireland.

I don't want to hear about other European countries I just want to hear about Ireland.
And don't be biased. Please examine the for and against reasons.
The whole infrastructure and treatment angle doesn't really convince me either.
Schools are in place and need constant maintenance and repair but parents don't get a bill that is contingent on how many days their kid attends classes.

Ascii · 30-09-2014 11:42am

josip wrote: »

Jaysus. When I wash the car it takes 3 - 4, 2-gallon buckets = 18 litres max.
At €4.88/1000l that works out at less than 9c for the water to wash the car.
How much will he spend on fuel driving out there to wash the cars?

4 buckets with 2 gallons each is 4*2*4.546 (litres per gallon) = 36 litres....

Hopefully Irish water consultants are using the same calculator you were.

:):):)

josip · 30-09-2014 11:42am

Egginacup wrote: »

I would really like someone to give me a good reason as to why one has to pay for water in Ireland.

I don't want to hear about other European countries I just want to hear about Ireland.
And don't be biased. Please examine the for and against reasons.
The whole infrastructure and treatment angle doesn't really convince me either.
Schools are in place and need constant maintenance and repair but parents don't get a bill that is contingent on how many days their kid attends classes.

In general, if something doesn't cost you directly, most people don't appreciate it and will not use it efficiently.
Should everyone get as much electricity as they want to use without a consumption-based bill?

endacl · 30-09-2014 11:44am

Egginacup wrote: »

I would really like someone to give me a good reason as to why one has to pay for water
The whole infrastructure and treatment angle doesn't really convince me either.

Well, if you ask about costs, but aren't interested in hearing about costs, then there isn't a lot that will convince you.

Specialun · 30-09-2014 11:47am

mikeym wrote: »

Irish Water sent the application pack to my old address and I have no intention in filling it out.

LAndlords are going to have trouble if their tenants dont want to sign up to Irish water.

Is issue AFAIK is that tenants are not legally oblique to give the details, if that is the case the onus is then on the landlord to get the info..obviously this is where the tension could arise

Barely There · 30-09-2014 11:54am

Egginacup wrote: »

I would really like someone to give me a good reason as to why one has to pay for water in Ireland.

Because the money trees we planted there a while ago haven't really come through the way we hoped and it's turns out we have to actually pay for the services we'd like in our society through taxes and charges - I know, it sucks, right?

Egginacup · 30-09-2014 11:56am

Cristiano Prickly Redcoat wrote: »

So we join the rest of Europe in paying water rates.
New topic.. Ivan Yates wrote a book and it's being previewed in tomorrow's independent.

I see you follow the herd when the government tells you to but can't think for yourself when other European countries don't pay a license fee.

endacl · 30-09-2014 11:57am

Barely There wrote: »

Because the money trees we planted there a while ago haven't really come through the way we hoped and it's turns out we have to actually pay for the services we'd like in our society through taxes and charges - I know, it sucks, right?

Hang fire on that! I just swopped a cow for some magic beans.

Be grand.

Egginacup · 30-09-2014 11:59am

endacl wrote: »

Well, if you ask about costs, but aren't interested in hearing about costs, then there isn't a lot that will convince you.

That's not much of a response.

I'm genuinely interested, I'm not sh!tstirring here.

How were the costs paid for the last several decades?
And do you actually get a breakdown of where these costs are being addressed by the monies being collected?

sadie06 · 30-09-2014 12:00pm

Ah, cry me a river! No really….please do! It would be most helpful.

josip · 30-09-2014 12:01pm

Egginacup wrote: »

I see you follow the herd when the government tells you to but can't think for yourself when other European countries don't pay a license fee.

Can you explain what you mean by "license fee"?

Gael23 · 30-09-2014 12:02pm

Im not totally opposed to water charges but I think the free allowance should be substantially higher, more lie a per person allowance.
Theres 4 of us here so we will use 30,000 litres a hell of a lot quicker than a house with 1 or 2 residents.

bladespin · 30-09-2014 12:05pm

ryanf1 wrote: »

Im not totally opposed to water charges but I think the free allowance should be substantially higher, more lie a per person allowance.
Theres 4 of us here so we will use 30,000 litres a hell of a lot quicker than a house with 1 or 2 residents.

Same as long as our tax (which pays for water services already) is reduced in line.

filbert the fox · 30-09-2014 12:06pm

endacl wrote: »

Careful now...

Irish Water will have actual legal staff, who understand contract law, and who's clarity and grammar is better than what was posted!

Re small claims court. That won't apply unless you've first tried an Apache rain dance. There's a precedence. I'll see if I can dig it out for you...

What's wrong with the grammar?

I see that there's a comma in your post before the word "and" which I find offensive.
While I'm at it what's the difference between legal staff and "actual" legal staff. Another superfluous comma appears here.

BTW no dot after Re either.

The late great Con Houlihan said that a man who misplaced an apostrophe was capable of anything!

30-09-2014 12:07pm

Not2Good wrote: »

Enjoy the last day of free water. Years ago they always joked 'next they'll be charging you for water

Water doesnt just fall from the Sky you know.

Oh wait.....

force eleven · 30-09-2014 12:08pm

I've been paying for water for 15 years, private scheme. Welcome to the wonderful world of water conservation awareness. Sure, you'll all smell a bit worse, have bad teeth and be thirsty, but it's all worth it in the end. Thanks to Phil.

fussyonion · 30-09-2014 12:09pm

I applied at water.ie and I ticked the box that said "Do you require application forms for special needs/water allowance for medical needs?".

Now, I haven't received those forms yet....but the billing starts tomorrow.
So how's that going to work then?

They're going to start the charging tomorrow. I haven't received my application form to fill out for medical/special needs, so how are they going to discuss/arrange my allowance/entitlements?!

30-09-2014 12:09pm

My head's not screwed on properly today (or anyday, if I'm honest).......

Half listening to the news this morning and some fella said that for the next while bills will be capped and if you don't use as much as the cap is, you will be rebated.

My question is - If I don't use up to the cap, will I only have a bill for the amount used or are they charging me the capped rate and I get a refund at a later date? T'is all very confusing.

endacl · 30-09-2014 12:12pm

filbert the fox wrote: »

What's wrong with the grammar?

I see that there's a comma in your post before the word "and" which I find offensive.
While I'm at it what's the difference between legal staff and "actual" legal staff. Another superfluous comma appears here.

BTW no dot after Re either.

The late great Con Houlihan said that a man who misplaced an apostrophe was capable of anything!

Ah,,, but Im ament putting 2gether someting purpourtingg 2 b a leagle dokkument, u c?

bladespin · 30-09-2014 12:15pm

endacl wrote: »

Ah,,, but Im ament putting 2gether someting purpourtingg 2 b a leagle dokkument, u c?

Wow, some of the solicitors and barristers I've worked with (a while back granted) must have risked the noose so. They would qualify as legal - I think.

Frank Lee Midere · 30-09-2014 12:17pm

fussyonion wrote: »

I applied at water.ie and I ticked the box that said "Do you require application forms for special needs/water allowance for medical needs?".

Now, I haven't received those forms yet....but the billing starts tomorrow.
So how's that going to work then?

They're going to start the charging tomorrow. I haven't received my application form to fill out for medical/special needs, so how are they going to discuss/arrange my allowance/entitlements?!

Nobody is charged until next year.

HeidiHeidi · 30-09-2014 12:18pm

Egginacup wrote: »

That's not much of a response.

I'm genuinely interested, I'm not sh!tstirring here.

How were the costs paid for the last several decades?
And do you actually get a breakdown of where these costs are being addressed by the monies being collected?

Water treatment/supply was covered out of general taxation previously (presumably rates before that, before some genius decided as a politicial stroke to abolish them)

Overall the country isn't taking in enough in taxes to cover what we spend (and that's putting it mildly). So we have to dream up new taxes. These water charges were never intended to replace the costs of water supply which were covered by general taxation, they were intended to supplement them.

Plus, the Troika insisted on it.

Lucy and Harry · 30-09-2014 12:19pm

Be better off living in a caravan at the side of the road nowadays

Toto Wolfcastle · 30-09-2014 12:20pm

fussyonion wrote: »

I applied at water.ie and I ticked the box that said "Do you require application forms for special needs/water allowance for medical needs?".

Now, I haven't received those forms yet....but the billing starts tomorrow.
So how's that going to work then?

They're going to start the charging tomorrow. I haven't received my application form to fill out for medical/special needs, so how are they going to discuss/arrange my allowance/entitlements?!

Given that people have until the 31st of October to fill out the form them sent out I'd say it will all be sorted in plenty of time. The first bill isn't due in for ages.

practice · 30-09-2014 12:21pm

No Meter, 5 people over 18 living here.
If I only put down 3 people on form how wiil they know
The form does not ask for pps numbers of all people over 18

BoJack Horseman · 30-09-2014 12:22pm

Lucy and Harry wrote: »

Be better off living in a caravan at the side of the road nowadays

Go for it.

HeidiHeidi · 30-09-2014 12:24pm

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

Water treatment/supply was covered out of general taxation previously (presumably rates before that, before some genius decided as a politicial stroke to abolish them)

Overall the country isn't taking in enough in taxes to cover what we spend (and that's putting it mildly). So we have to dream up new taxes. These water charges were never intended to replace the costs of water supply which were covered by general taxation, they were intended to supplement them.

Plus, the Troika insisted on it.

Having said the above, my confidence that this will all be done fairly, efficiently and above board is pretty low - I've had to contact IW a couple of times regarding various not-terribly-complicated scenarios (and certainly not unique ones), and to say their level of confusedness and ignorance of their own prodecures was alarming is to put it mildly.

Most unhelpful helpline I've ever been on to.

If they don't know themselves what's going on, what hope is there for us poor punters?

Egginacup · 30-09-2014 12:26pm

josip wrote: »

In general, if something doesn't cost you directly, most people don't appreciate it and will not use it efficiently.
Should everyone get as much electricity as they want to use without a consumption-based bill?

I agree to a certain degree on the electricity thing......but electricity fall more towards the luxury category than water.

And I certainly agree that if something is free it will be taken for granted. Having said that, I have lived in apartments where utilities were included. I admit that I often left the light or tv on when going to the shop...but very rarely and if I knew I was going out for the night rather than accross the road to grab a 6pack and come back I always turned off lights, tv, etc. I had a thermostat so the place was at a constant 19 degree summer and winter and I never left taps running or took 20 minute showers or put 1 spoon in the dishwasher. None of that ever made sense.

Again, anecdotal evidence doesn't make a case but if we are talking purely about the cost of infrastructure upkeep rather than the cost of the product itself then a guy washing his car every day, hosing down his pet elephants and and bathing his 10 kids morning, noon and night isn't costing anymore than the neighbour who has a bath a month and recycles his piss for drinking.

MadYaker · 30-09-2014 12:28pm

Egginacup wrote: »

That's not much of a response.

I'm genuinely interested, I'm not sh!tstirring here.

How were the costs paid for the last several decades?
And do you actually get a breakdown of where these costs are being addressed by the monies being collected?

*Sigh*

Up until now water was paid for from our taxes. But a few years ago we had some economic difficulty and ended up borrowing huge amounts of money to keep our country running. This money has to be repaid somehow which means more taxes. This is what the water charges and property taxes and everything other tax that as been brought in is for. The government is telling us that the money will be used to improve water services and infrastructure and it will eventually, once our debts have been paid off, which won't be for a while I'm afraid (they aren't so fond of mentioning that part...)

There is another purpose to these new taxes as well, we need to widen our tax base and introduce taxes that don't fluctuate so much with economic performance like VAT and stamp duty etc to prevent government revenue fluctuating so much like it did after the crash causing huge budget defecits, like we have now.

That's why I am in favour of property and water charges, and will be paying them, they could have been implemented better though.

Tzardine · 30-09-2014 12:28pm

No water charges for me losers !!!! I have my own well. *

* It costs a fortune each year to maintain.

Anybody who says that free water is a right and it falls from the sky needs to collect it , filter it and pump it to their house themselves.

Lucy and Harry · 30-09-2014 12:30pm

We have always been paying for water and bins and other things out of our taxes.Then the stealth taxes came in.Not 1 cent is going to be going on making these things better it is going to pay off the bankers debt.

BoJack Horseman · 30-09-2014 12:31pm

Lucy and Harry wrote: »

We have always been paying for water and bins and other things out of our taxes.Then the stealth taxes came in.Not 1 cent is going to be going on making these things better it is going to pay off the bankers debt.

Where that only so.

The bulk of debt is simple day-to-day government spending.

MadYaker · 30-09-2014 12:32pm

Lucy and Harry wrote: »

We have always been paying for water and bins and other things out of our taxes.Then the stealth taxes came in.Not 1 cent is going to be going on making these things better it is going to pay off the bankers debt.

Yup, but ask yourself where does the money go after the debt is paid?

Uriel. · 30-09-2014 12:33pm

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

Water treatment/supply was covered out of general taxation previously (presumably rates before that, before some genius decided as a politicial stroke to abolish them)

Overall the country isn't taking in enough in taxes to cover what we spend (and that's putting it mildly). So we have to dream up new taxes. These water charges were never intended to replace the costs of water supply which were covered by general taxation, they were intended to supplement them.

Plus, the Troika insisted on it.

And a requirement under EU Law (Water framework Directive) which requires implementation of the Polluter Pays Principle. Water Charges were coming irrespective of the country's financial situation.

Goodbye Free Water Today's The Last Day

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