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Census Age questions

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  • 06-06-2016 1:20pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,245 ✭✭✭


    Hi

    In the 1901 Census entry

    Johanna is 50
    Daniel is 30
    Michael is 24

    by 1911 Census, the entry is

    Johanna 73
    Daniel 38
    Michael 32
    John 34

    Yet Michael's baptism was 13/1/1876

    Daniel's baptism was July/1865


    John's Baptism was 24/06/1872

    So by the April 1901

    Daniel was 35 (45 in 1911)
    Michael was 24 (34 in 1911)
    John was 28 (so would be 38 in 1911)

    My question is in relation to the ages. Why would there be such glaring mistakes ? I understand in 1911 there was a scrambling to qualify for the Old Age pension, so that could account for Johanna's 73 age, yet her marriage was 7/10/1859

    http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/db3f3f0000897

    putting her age about 1840, which would make the 1911 age pretty accurate. I do see that she is illiterate, so could this account for it ?


Comments

  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,840 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    People often didn't know their ages accurately even when registered and would have had to estimate on both occasions.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,245 ✭✭✭Mumha


    L1011 wrote: »
    People often didn't know their ages accurately even when registered and would have had to estimate on both occasions.

    Yeah I guess it's hard for us to comprehend that today when things like timepieces weren't really commonplace amongst farming folk, so time/age didn't have the same relevance. The advent of an old age pension certainly gave relevance.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,622 Mod ✭✭✭✭pinkypinky


    Yes, they absolutely could be that wrong. The OAP had less to do with it than people think now. Age was not the only criterion for getting it.

    Genealogy Forum Mod



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,245 ✭✭✭Mumha


    pinkypinky wrote: »
    Yes, they absolutely could be that wrong. The OAP had less to do with it than people think now. Age was not the only criterion for getting it.

    Thanks PP, I hadn't heard about extra criterion. When you say they absolutely could be wrong, why ?


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,622 Mod ✭✭✭✭pinkypinky


    For the reasons detailed above: people didn't need to know exactly and they rounded their ages. They didn't have their birth cert to check, etc. Women sometimes pretended to be younger than their husbands.

    Genealogy Forum Mod



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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 27,131 CMod ✭✭✭✭spurious


    My grandmother told me of witnessing women tearing pages from parish registers to remove mention of their baptism date.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,622 Mod ✭✭✭✭pinkypinky


    That's the only way to get a concrete answer on age too - you can't have the baptism without the baby!

    Genealogy Forum Mod



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,708 ✭✭✭Waitsian


    Given my experience of Irish genealogical records, nothing would surprise me!


  • Registered Users Posts: 98 ✭✭Boscod


    My Great Grandfather's death cert stated he was 54 when he died in 1908. The 1901 census stated he was 60 in 1901. However he was born in 1833, making him 75 on death. The joys!


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,943 ✭✭✭tabbey


    Boscod wrote: »
    My Great Grandfather's death cert stated he was 54 when he died in 1908. The 1901 census stated he was 60 in 1901. However he was born in 1833, making him 75 on death. The joys!

    Remember the age given at death was the guess of a usually younger person, who probably had no knowledge when the deceased was born.
    Added to that the relative may have been upset and incoherent, leaving the registrar / asst registrar to take a chance on the age reported.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,245 ✭✭✭Mumha


    Thanks for all your informative replies, I appreciate it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 136 ✭✭nikonuser


    A quick 'age' question on Marriage Certificates. Where the age of the Bride or Groom is listed as 'Full' or 'Minor' is it a reference to them being 18 or 21 years of age? J


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,777 ✭✭✭shanew


    21 or over


  • Registered Users Posts: 136 ✭✭nikonuser


    Shane, thanks for that. I thought it might be 21 all right.
    I asked as my GG Granddad was 72 when he married his 2nd wife, she was listed as 'Minor'. I'm still tracking her Birth date, she was born approx 1862, possibly India or here.
    72 & 20? Romance? Survival? They had 2 kids, the first born in 1881, they married a few months later in 1882 (I'm sure there was a wee bit of a scandal, she being under 21 & he in his 70's and a baby in situ). Their 2nd child (my GG Granny) was born 12 years later, in 1893. Patrick Dodd died aged 86, in 1896.
    So far I can account for 9 children from hi 2 marriages. Probably not uncommon. Always a story behind the dates & facts.
    Cheers for that, J


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,245 ✭✭✭Mumha


    Age of Majority is 18 and Full Age is 21, is what I had understood but see here

    http://www.lawreform.ie/_fileupload/consultation%20papers/wpAgeofMajority.htm


    CHAPTER II THE AGE OF MAJORITY

    2.1

    In our law, “infancy” or “minority” is a status which was recognised by the Common Law and goes back to the earliest times. This status ceased when the minor attained the age of 21 years. In text books and statutes the words “infant” and “minor” are interchangeable and are used to describe a person who has not come of age. As indicated in para. 1.3 supra the terms “minor” and “minority” will be used in preference to “infant” and “infancy” in this paper.

    2.2

    The limitations on the legal capacity of a minor are not imposed to deprive the minor of his rights, but rather to protect him against his own inexperience and improvidence. Normally, a person who ceases to be a minor has full legal capacity and may act independently of a parent, a guardian or the court. The terms “age of majority” and “full age” are used to describe the age at which a person acquires the capacity to exercise all the rights of an individual who is not under a disability.

    2.3

    In this chapter it is proposed to trace the development of the present law relating to the age of majority in our legal system and in other legal systems.

    A. Ireland

    2.4

    Although the Brehon Laws seem to have recognised that a child required some legal protection, the concept of a fixed age at which a young person would attain maturity was not apparently known to them. Normally a son had no power to make a binding contract during the life of his father and while he was a member of his father's household.

    2.5

    After the Norman invasion of Ireland in the 12th century the invaders started to impose their system of law on the country. Several hundred years elapsed before the English common law system, as supplemented by statute law, effectively became the law throughout the land.

    2.6

    The common law treated a person under 21 years as a minor, and gave such a person a special status. The law acted upon the principle that a minor should be protected from his own improvidence and inexperience, but that this should be done so as not to cause unnecessary hardship to any person dealing with the minor


  • Registered Users Posts: 136 ✭✭nikonuser


    Thanks again. Elizabeth Meroe is 'Minor" & 'Spinster' while Patrick was 'Full' and a 'Widower' so I all this tells me is that she was under 21 assume. J


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