Western Rail Corridor (all disused sections)

corktina · 20-12-2012 10:01am

What motorway is this that you talk of as going to be built?

serfboard · 20-12-2012 2:05pm

The Idyl Race wrote: »

... get a contract moving pensioners twice weekly to the county town ...

What kind of passengers travel between Ennis and Athenry on the train now, do you reckon?

Or, better still, what kind of public-transport-needing passengers paying how much money do you think take a 2-hour train journey between Limerick and Galway when a more frequent public transport alternative lasting 1 hour and 20 minutes exists?

Or, how many commuters working in the single biggest concentration of employment in Galway (Ballybrit/Parkmore/Mervue) take the train? Or, for that matter, how many people working in Raheen take the train either?

Sponge Bob · 20-12-2012 6:59pm

Good News, Westtip, I'll buy you an autographed copy shall I .

http://www.colourpointbooks.co.uk/more_details.php?id=1467

Rails through the West Limerick to Sligo, An Illustrated Journey on the Western Rail Corridor By Jonathan Beaumont, Barry Carse

Mmmmm.

This pictorial album, illustrated in colour from the 1960s to the present, is a portrait of the Limerick to Sligo railway line in its Indian Summer

I would have thought the 1960s were the Indian summer myself.

At the south end, a busy and well used passenger service operates with modern trains over well maintained track; in the middle, renewal work is under way or planned, and at the northern end all is quiet, save for the birds in the trees which grow between the rails.

westtip · 20-12-2012 9:23pm

Sponge Bob wrote: »

http://www.galwaynews.ie/29394-funding-western-rail-corridor-be-reviewed-post-2016

Thread could run a while yet.

Deputy O' Mahony told West On Track that the position is that within the current Capital Investment Programme to 2016, funds are not provided to extend the line further.

and Leo Varadkar told The Irish Times - Its not going to happen

Who do we beleive: Minister: Back bench TD who wants to be noticed?

end of the road · 20-12-2012 9:30pm

westtip wrote: »

Who do we beleive: Minister: Back bench TD who wants to be noticed?

a very hard choice indeed, either of them could be lying or telling the truth, depends on what way you look at it.

The Idyl Race · 21-12-2012 12:15am

serfboard wrote: »

What kind of passengers travel between Ennis and Athenry on the train now, do you reckon?

Or, better still, what kind of public-transport-needing passengers paying how much money do you think take a 2-hour train journey between Limerick and Galway when a more frequent public transport alternative lasting 1 hour and 20 minutes exists?

Or, how many commuters working in the single biggest concentration of employment in Galway (Ballybrit/Parkmore/Mervue) take the train? Or, for that matter, how many people working in Raheen take the train either?

www.irishrail.ie should give you the phone numbers of the people who actually know that. Otherwise the only sensible answer I can give you is that Rover is a dogs name. Rover is also the name of a popular tin of Christmas biscuits. Therefore Rover biscuits are dog biscuits.

LivelineDipso · 21-12-2012 6:02pm

end of the road wrote: »

a very hard choice indeed, either of them could be lying or telling the truth, depends on what way you look at it.

Just what I was thinking.

I'd wager they are both doing both at the same time.

westtip · 23-12-2012 1:49pm

end of the road wrote: »

a very hard choice indeed, either of them could be lying or telling the truth, depends on what way you look at it.

Indeed West on Track went running to their western allies - John O'Mahony and Michael Ring - bleating about Leo's comment's in the press.

So it seems the game will go on - West on Track will continue to say this vital piece of infrastructure bla di bla is needed for the West, and in the meantime more and more encroachment will take place on the Claremorris - Collooney section - the section we all know for definite is never going to happen, West on Track will never give up "ownership" of the railway - bitterness will stop them from ever conceding an inch of the railway dream. Ring will continue to spout comments like "we are going to become the cycling and walking capital of Europe" and not give any idea on how it will be achieved. O'Mahony will do as he is told by West on Track. Councillors on the Western Inter County Railway Committee will continue to meet and talk about nothing but claim expenses for every meeting

We have to wait now till 2016 - At that time, a decision will be put on the long finger, the country will still be massively in debt, the chances of a change of Government will bring fresh hope to West on Track - who will find unlikely bedfellows in Sinn Fein who would promise central heating to Eskimoes for their igloos if they felt it would get them in power. No political party will ever be able to deliver on the Western Rail Corridor in a national context, as far as priorities for infrastructure nationally and indeed in the West it is so far down the food chain as to be laughable.

BTW by 2016, there is every chance the N17/18 extension from Gort to Tuam will be underway - when that project is finished - as we all know, the WRC will be such an irrelevance in peoples lives as to be a total non starter.

Roll on 2016 for the final death knell on this forlorn project.:D

sligotrain · 24-12-2012 7:04pm

There you have it then. The attempt by a lunatic fringe to grass over the permanent way between Claremorris and Collooney seems to be at an end. Common sense at last!

corktina · 24-12-2012 8:36pm

It's already grassed over....and afforestated too in many places where it hasn't been stolen for drives or car showrooms.

LivelineDipso · 25-12-2012 12:19am

sligotrain wrote: »

There you have it then. The attempt by a lunatic fringe to grass over the permanent way between Claremorris and Collooney seems to be at an end. Common sense at last!

So the WoT alternatives are sanity?

monument · 25-12-2012 9:14pm

Dublin to Galway is been looked at as a potental off-road cycle route -- a lot of the route will be done regardless of any plan to link the two cities. The route most favored as viable is the Royal Canal to Mullingar and on to Athlone via the disused railway between the two towns.

Any Mayo or Sligo TD or councilor standing in the way of the WRC been used as a greenway is standing in the way of a highly valuable cycling toursim link to Galway and Dublin.

westtip · 26-12-2012 2:19pm

monument wrote: »

Dublin to Galway is been looked at as a potental off-road cycle route -- a lot of the route will be done regardless of any plan to link the two cities. The route most favored as viable is the Royal Canal to Mullingar and on to Athlone via the disused railway between the two towns.

Any Mayo or Sligo TD or councilor standing in the way of the WRC been used as a greenway is standing in the way of a highly valuable cycling toursim link to Galway and Dublin.

And towns and councillors living on the route will by vying to make sure this cross country greenway comes through their town or village - because they know how much money it will bring in. In the meantime, Swinford, Kiltimagh, Charlestown, Bellahy, Tubercurry, Coolaney, Collooney will be denied the opportunity to be part of this revolution that will take place in Irish tourism because of an octogenerian cleric and a handful of councillors more interested in their expenses from the western Intercounty railway committee. Shame on them.:D

sligotrain · 26-12-2012 5:29pm

westtip wrote: »

And towns and councillors living on the route will by vying to make sure this cross country greenway comes through their town or village - because they know how much money it will bring in. In the meantime, Swinford, Kiltimagh, Charlestown, Bellahy, Tubercurry, Coolaney, Collooney will be denied the opportunity to be part of this revolution that will take place in Irish tourism because of an octogenerian cleric and a handful of councillors more interested in their expenses from the western Intercounty railway committee. Shame on them.:D

A revolution you call it? More like a personal obsession and obviously nothing will stop you dishing out insults at those who aren't here to answer your poison back.

Get your greenway built by all means but build it in such a place a:where tourists want to go and b: not at the cost of ripping up infrastructure.

monument · 26-12-2012 6:23pm

sligotrain wrote: »

... not at the cost of ripping up infrastructure.

What infrastructure? There's no rail line there suitable for use and for a large part there's no intact rail line.... When you say "infrastructure" do you mean the driveways and gardens etc which have been built on the old alignment?

MayoForSam · 26-12-2012 6:57pm

sligotrain wrote: »

Get your greenway built by all means

I very much doubt if westtip will be claiming personal ownership of the Claremorris-Collooney greenway when it gets built, plenty other posters on this thread see it as the best way forward for promoting walking/cycling tourism in the west.

In the words of Teddy Roosevelt (not from Kevin Costner's movie), "if you build it, they will come".

corktina · 26-12-2012 7:22pm

sligotrain wrote: »

A revolution you call it? More like a personal obsession and obviously nothing will stop you dishing out insults at those who aren't here to answer your poison back.

Get your greenway built by all means but build it in such a place a:where tourists want to go and b: not at the cost of ripping up infrastructure.

It would have to all be ripped up to make a railway line of it. It was very lightly built in the first place and will need substantial reinforcing to bring it up to modern day standards. Also the rails and sleepers throughout would all need replacing.All that's there is the Right of Way, and that has been encroached on in many places anyway. It's academic anyway, as it will probably never happen, but if a miracle did occur there is no reason that a cycleway and railway line couldn't exist side by side.

sligotrain · 26-12-2012 7:31pm

At last some reason - the cycle way and the railway could easily coexist.

rainbowdash · 26-12-2012 8:00pm

MayoForSam wrote: »

In the words of Teddy Roosevelt (not from Kevin Costner's movie), "if you build it, they will come".

If that's the case if they rebuilt the wrc from Sligo to athenry would they come?

A greenway through swinford would be a waste of time and attract no tourists, green ways out the old dingle or west Clare railway lines might work but not inland routes through boring fields.

LivelineDipso · 26-12-2012 8:30pm

rainbowdash wrote: »

If that's the case if they rebuilt the wrc from Sligo to athenry would they come?

A greenway through swinford would be a waste of time and attract no tourists, green ways out the old dingle or west Clare railway lines might work but not inland routes through boring fields.

90% of the world's greenways run through boring fields, suburbs and towns.

They function as transport, local exercise amenities and not just tourism.

That's the diverse beauty of the greenway concept - something for everyone except local gombeens wanting to use hundreds of millions of tax payers money to build monuments to themselves.

corktina · 26-12-2012 11:42pm

sligotrain wrote: »

At last some reason - the cycle way and the railway could easily coexist.

I've been saying that for ages, and even posted pics of cycleways/railway lines co-existing in the UK. Westtip may be reviled for his views but he has often said this himself and pointed out that a greenway would preserve the right of way which is steadily being eroded at present.

westtip · 27-12-2012 3:43pm

sligotrain wrote: »

A revolution you call it? More like a personal obsession and obviously nothing will stop you dishing out insults at those who aren't here to answer your poison back.

Get your greenway built by all means but build it in such a place a:where tourists want to go and b: not at the cost of ripping up infrastructure.

It's an open forum mate. If the Councillors claiming expenses for the western inter county railway committee meetings want to come on and explain exactly what the purpose of the committee is they are welcome to do so. Your post was slightly vitriolic - there is no poison in questioning what our elected representatives claim to do in our name; as for octogenarian priests
- he can speak for his flock - not the general public. The use of redundant railways is as we all know a common use for abandonned railways throughout the world - as I have said before why don't you go have a chat with a few hotel owners along the route, they want the tourists to come along the sligo mayo greenway and use their facilities.

I clearly have really pissed you off with my persistent arguments - the fact these arguments are now part of the public domain and debate in the western media and on local radio stations gives me great pleasure. Until West on Track were challenged about their mad cap plans for rural rail lines through the west of Ireland - their arguments were considered the only show in town - this now clearly is not the case - in no small part due to the efforts of those of us who have persistently challenged the WoT view.

BTW if you are against building a greenway where tourists don't want to go - why would you be in favour of building a railway along such a route? Clearly it won't be a tourist attraction in your view. So who will use it? Pensioners and social welfare users - great argument for "infrastructure"

rainbowdash · 27-12-2012 3:45pm

LivelineDipso wrote: »

90% of the world's greenways run through boring fields, suburbs and towns.

They function as transport, local exercise amenities and not just tourism.

That's the diverse beauty of the greenway concept - something for everyone except local gombeens wanting to use hundreds of millions of tax payers money to build monuments to themselves.

Yes thats fine, but this greenway through Swinford et al will not attract tourists in any meaningful numbers, and whats being trumpeted here is that its part of a tourism revolution that will bring in 5000 jobs.

To create 5000 jobs 365 days of the year would require a wage bill of around €100M, plus you have employers PRSI, insurance, maintenance, advertising, marketing etc. etc., so a ballpark figure of €200 MILLION tourist spend in addition to what is being spent anyway is required.

If the average tourist spent €50 per day on food and accomodation thats approx. 11000 tourists spending €50 EVERY SINGLE DAY, 365 DAYS a year on greenways around Ireland.

This is in addition to what people would have spent anyway. I just can't see where the 5000 jobs are going to come from, I would love to see some costed proposals on these 5000 jobs.

westtip · 27-12-2012 3:51pm

rainbowdash wrote: »

If that's the case if they rebuilt the wrc from Sligo to athenry would they come?

A greenway through swinford would be a waste of time and attract no tourists, green ways out the old dingle or west Clare railway lines might work but not inland routes through boring fields.

I suggest you check out a few greenways running through urban areas and old industrial heartlands in both the UK and the USA.

It's really strange how the arguments against the greenway now from West on Track are based on the lack of scenery along the route - this really shows how they are clutching at straws. Really strange about your comment about Swinford as the people of Swinford seem to like the idea of a greenway and I am sure they quite like the idea of walking in safety on a greenway through the boring fields of East Mayo - quite a tranquil setting actually and beauty is afterall in the beholder.

A comment made by the spokesperson of WoT on Midwest radio recently said "there was no scenery in Claremorris" or words to that effect - again the arguments against the greenway now by WoT are so unbelievably facile it's become hilarious.

westtip · 27-12-2012 3:58pm

rainbowdash wrote: »

Yes thats fine, but this greenway through Swinford et al will not attract tourists in any meaningful numbers, .

Go ask the hotels on the great western greenway about meaningful numbers -

Swinford won't be the destination - the greenway as part of a network of greenway will be the destination and thepurpose and reason for people to be out and about - they will stop off and spend money in all the towns and villages the greenway passes through - but it is also about what people want locally and people in Swinford actually want a greenway and have cited the success of the Great western greenway as part of the reason - this is what has annoyed west on track - people just aren't accepting what they say as a realistic option these days - and they know what is achievable and what will be successful.

rainbowdash · 27-12-2012 4:06pm

westtip wrote: »

I suggest you check out a few greenways running through urban areas and old industrial heartlands in both the UK and the USA.

Swinford et al are not urban areas, I really don't see the comparison, thats like telling you to check out the london underground to see how popular the WRC will be:rolleyes:

rainbowdash · 27-12-2012 4:13pm

westtip wrote: »

Go ask the hotels on the great western greenway about meaningful numbers -

Swinford won't be the destination - the greenway as part of a network of greenway will be the destination and thepurpose and reason for people to be out and about - they will stop off and spend money in all the towns and villages the greenway passes through - but it is also about what people want locally and people in Swinford actually want a greenway and have cited the success of the Great western greenway as part of the reason - this is what has annoyed west on track - people just aren't accepting what they say as a realistic option these days - and they know what is achievable and what will be successful.

But thats a touristy area, not a boring route through the plain and boring fields around Swinford:rolleyes:

People are not going to cycle from Dublin to Swinford to spend a day on the Mulranny trail, or Dingle trail etc.

Turning the northern part of the WRC into a greenway will be a local amenity and nothing more.

No way are there going to be 11000 people walking through Swinford and all these boring places, 365 DAYS A YEAR, to get to Mulranny or Dingle greenways, spending €50 each and creating 5000 jobs in the process.

Its plain daft.

corktina · 27-12-2012 4:26pm

even if it should prove to be plain daft, it wont be as daft as the already open section of the WRC which carries an average of around 9 passengers per train and costs a couple of million a year to do so.and never forget that section is judged to be the most viable section.

westtip · 27-12-2012 6:43pm

rainbowdash wrote: »

But thats a touristy area, not a boring route through the plain and boring fields around Swinford:rolleyes:

People are not going to cycle from Dublin to Swinford to spend a day on the Mulranny trail, or Dingle trail etc.

Turning the northern part of the WRC into a greenway will be a local amenity and nothing more.

No way are there going to be 11000 people walking through Swinford and all these boring places, 365 DAYS A YEAR, to get to Mulranny or Dingle greenways, spending €50 each and creating 5000 jobs in the process.

Its plain daft.

you simply don't get the idea of a network of greenways which will be used for a cycling and walking holiday. Turning it into a local amenity is not a bad idea - because one thing is for sure - as has been proven on the southern branch line the locals won't use a railway, but they will use a greenway. 11,000 people a year is actually not beyond the realms of possibility = 30 people a day using the greenway around Swinford - I reckon on a Sunday alone - the amount of people cycling and walking on this greenway will be in the hundreds. It will cost next too nothing to put in place, require no subvention, and will be used, it will protect the route forever could someone please tell me what is the problem???

Turning the northern part of the WRC into a greenway will be a local amenity and nothing more. why do you say this, will people landing in Knock renting a bike and cycling on this greenway to connect with the great western greenway be locals, will people out for the day from Ballina, Tubercurry, Sligo, Roscommon town, Athlone who come to use the greenway be locals.

Once again I suggest you lift the phone and talk to a few of the hotels in the area - they want to see it happen (the greenway) because they know people will use it and come in for a drink, a meal, a bed. Wake up and smell the coffee please.

sligotrain · 28-12-2012 12:34am

westtip wrote: »

Once again I suggest you lift the phone and talk to a few of the hotels in the area - they want to see it happen (the greenway) because they know people will use it and come in for a drink, a meal, a bed. Wake up and smell the coffee please.

There's an emerging consensus here that the proposed greenway could be built parallel to the railway track to allow both to develop though maybe not at the same time.

I think your frankly aggressive attitude however towards to the supporters of the WRC and some specific individuals does not help your case in any shape or form.

This is not nor should it be a WRC or Greenway debate. That does not help either sides of the argument. Instead we should be looking at ways of maintaining the route and discouraging further encroachments of the line.

We can all achieve what we want working together so I would pick up the phone and speak to West on Track and agree how to achieve your aims together.

Western Rail Corridor (all disused sections)

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