Gain or Burns??

willmunny1990 · 25-09-2014 12:03am #1

I have a 12 year old collie mix with a thyroid problem that tends to put on weight easily, I have her on burns weight control now but im considering changing to Gain, if its any good.

I get Burns in my vets and its quite expensive, I can get an 8kg bag of Gain for 19 euro which is pretty good value. I don't know much about it though just wondering if someone could tell me about the quality of Gain compared to Burns.

andreac · 25-09-2014 12:25pm

willmunny1990 wrote: »

I have a 12 year old collie mix with a thyroid problem that tends to put on weight easily, I have her on burns weight control now but im considering changing to Gain, if its any good.

I get Burns in my vets and its quite expensive, I can get an 8kg bag of Gain for 19 euro which is pretty good value. I don't know much about it though just wondering if someone could tell me about the quality of Gain compared to Burns.

Which Gain is it though?

willmunny1990 · 25-09-2014 4:57pm

andreac wrote: »

Which Gain is it though?

Gain all dogs senior.

Jen Pigs Fly · 27-09-2014 11:28pm

8kg for 19euro should tell you enought that the gain food is rubbish.

Millem · 28-09-2014 7:21am

willmunny1990 wrote: »

I have a 12 year old collie mix with a thyroid problem that tends to put on weight easily, I have her on burns weight control now but im considering changing to Gain, if its any good.

I get Burns in my vets and its quite expensive, I can get an 8kg bag of Gain for 19 euro which is pretty good value. I don't know much about it though just wondering if someone could tell me about the quality of Gain compared to Burns.

I would highly recommend skinners it is very very similar to burns http://http://www.amazon.co.uk/Skinners-Field-Trial-Duck-Rice/dp/B003EGMHL2/ref=sr_1_1?s=pet-supplies&ie=UTF8&qid=1411885243&sr=1-1

Knine · 28-09-2014 1:13pm

xxxJennyxxx wrote: »

8kg for 19euro should tell you enought that the gain food is rubbish.

It most certainly is not rubbish food. Have you ever tried it or looked at the list of ingredients?

I have used it very successfully & have also used Burns which I found fine but certainly not fantastic.

28-09-2014 1:18pm

xxxJennyxxx wrote: »

8kg for 19euro should tell you enought that the gain food is rubbish.

I'm afraid I must disagree with you there. I have a retired greyhound and use Gain Maintenance & Retired for both him and a little Terrier we have. I've had NO problems with either dog. I pay €16 for a 15 kg bag.

Jen Pigs Fly · 28-09-2014 1:36pm

Cheap food = cheap ingredients. Couldnt see a 8kg and up bag of food for €19 euro containing good quality ingredients (or even meat 'derivatives' for that matter)

A 1euro tesco value steak isn't going to be anywhere near the quality of a €8 fillet steak.

Knine · 28-09-2014 1:40pm

xxxJennyxxx wrote: »

Cheap food = cheap ingredients. Couldnt see a 8kg and up bag of food for €19 euro containing good quality ingredients (or even meat 'derivatives' for that matter)

A 1euro tesco value steak isn't going to be anywhere near the quality of a €8 fillet steak.

What is the ingredients in the Alldogs Gain food?

28-09-2014 1:49pm

Knine wrote: »

What is the ingredients in the Alldogs Gain food?

Scroll down to bottom of this page for a chart of all Gain petfood ingredients.
http://gainfeeds.com/pet/premium-pet-food/

Jen Pigs Fly · 28-09-2014 1:50pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm afraid I must disagree with you there. I have a retired greyhound and use Gain Maintenance & Retired for both him and a little Terrier we have. I've had NO problems with either dog. I pay €16 for a 15 kg bag.

Considering a lengthy search into that food didn't reveal any of it's ingredients I can't make up my mind about that. Post The ingredients of the food and then we'll see how bad/good it is.
And considering the search for that food landed me In forums where People thought it was ok to give their dog buttered toast every morning and to feed handfuls of pasta instead of 'nuts' says a lot regarding this type of food.

Knine · 28-09-2014 1:53pm

The first ingredient in Gain Alldogs Senior is min 27% dried poultry. Hardly 'rubbish food'

28-09-2014 1:55pm

xxxJennyxxx wrote: »

Considering a lengthy search into that food didn't reveal any of it's ingredients I can't make up my mind about that. Post The ingredients of the food and then we'll see how bad/good it is.
And considering the search for that food landed me In forums where People thought it was ok to give their dog buttered toast every morning and to feed handfuls of pasta instead of 'nuts' says a lot regarding this type of food.

Oh, Dear. I'm not going to take part in a battle of rights or wrongs. I was just saying that I find a particular dog food suits my dogs. To each their own! BTW, I give my dogs a slice of brown bread and butter for their breakfast. Does that make me a bad dog owner? My greyhound is 11 years old and my terrier 15. I've had both since they were about 3. I've been using this dog food for about 5 years. Before that I was using other Greyhound nuts and they were both emptying loose.

Jen Pigs Fly · 28-09-2014 1:56pm

Knine wrote: »

The first ingredient in Gain Alldogs Senior is min 27% dried poultry. Hardly 'rubbish food'

Never said anything about the alldogs, the gain elite is a decent food. Still a lot of maize and maize gluten in it but nothing to turn your nose up at. The rest of the gain food has a lot to be desired. Redmills would be similiar, the leader range is decent but the rest are crap.

Im talking about these foods that are 12kg for 12euro.

Jen Pigs Fly · 28-09-2014 1:58pm

Knine wrote: »

The first ingredient in Gain Alldogs Senior is min 27% dried poultry. Hardly 'rubbish food'

All dogs senior has rice as first ingredient and then 17% chicken and turkey. And then followed by a lot of maize and gluten

Karen91 · 28-09-2014 1:58pm

If an 8kg bag of dog food costs 19 euro the ingredients going into it are cheap, the higher the price in dog food means better quality ingredients. Orijen and Canagan are examples of high quality foods, they are expensive but the ingredients are of high quality. I took my dog off science plan and put her on canagan and saw a huge difference and Science Plan is'nt the cheapest at 17 euro for a 2.5kg bag but I wanted to put her on a grain free diet with even better quality ingredients.

Think about it: An 8kg bag of gain is only 2 euro more than 2.5kg bag of science plan. The ingriedients have to be very cheap in Gain dog food for it to retail at the price. Quality comes at high price.

28-09-2014 2:02pm

Karen91 wrote: »

Think about it: An 8kg bag of gain is only 2 euro more than 2.5kg bag of science plan. The ingriedients have to be very cheap in Gain dog food for it to retail at the price. Quality comes at high price.

It might be economies of scale. If a company is making and selling more, it just might be costing them a lot less to make than less popular foods.

Jen Pigs Fly · 28-09-2014 2:06pm

Deleted User wrote: »

It might be economies of scale. If a company is making and selling more, it just might be costing them a lot less to make than less popular foods.

Nah they're just using cheaper meats and cuts in the food.
They're gettin the bits of dog food meat that the good dog foods won't touch why it's so cheap. It's the meat that even good dog food producers won't go near.

And chicken and poiltry In cheap foods doesn't necissarily mean it's chicken and poultry. Producers can add blood, the leftovers from the slaughter house floor, beaks, claws, etc and call it poultry and chicken

Karen91 · 28-09-2014 2:12pm

Deleted User wrote: »

It might be economies of scale. If a company is making and selling more, it just might be costing them a lot less to make than less popular foods.

The vet recommended science plan or Burns when I took Daisy for her first health check at 3 months, he said avoid foods that are sold in supermarkets as the ingredients are cheaper, Gain is sold in supermarkets.

tk123 · 28-09-2014 2:17pm

Karen91 wrote: »

Quality comes at high price.

I don't agree with this at all and I think that sentiment is used against owners to make them think that they have to spend a fortune to feed their dogs well. There's plenty of good quality foods that are reasonably priced - I'd assume because the companies aren't pumping all their money into marketing making owners think it's the best thing in the world.

willmunny1990 · 28-09-2014 2:19pm

Karen91 wrote: »

The vet recommended science plan or Burns when I took Daisy for her first health check at 3 months, he said avoid foods that are sold in supermarkets as the ingredients are cheaper, Gain is sold in supermarkets.

Vets are a business first and foremost and always recommend these products because they want you to buy them from them, apparently Science plan is **** enough from what I hear and Burns is touted as great but Im not so sure.

28-09-2014 2:24pm

Karen91 wrote: »

The vet recommended science plan or Burns when I took Daisy for her first health check at 3 months, he said avoid foods that are sold in supermarkets as the ingredients are cheaper, Gain is sold in supermarkets.

The Vet doesn't make anything from dogfood sold elsewhere! Of course they'll gt you to buy THEIR product, that they have between 50% & 50% profit on!

Karen91 · 28-09-2014 9:28pm

The vet I take my little one to does not sell either of the foods I mentioned he only sells canned prescription diets for the kidneys and so on so he was'nt gaining anything by giving this information.

The food I now give is 65% meat, a mix of rabbit, venison and duck the the other 35% is made up of natural ingredients to aid digestion and give a natural source of fibre and it is grain free. Its not cheap but its quality ingedients that are in it, so I think in this case quality does come at a high price.

SingItOut · 29-09-2014 11:30am

Karen91 wrote: »

The vet recommended science plan or Burns when I took Daisy for her first health check at 3 months, he said avoid foods that are sold in supermarkets as the ingredients are cheaper, Gain is sold in supermarkets.

Science plan is pretty rubbish, your vet recommended that and burns for you because he/she receives commission from every bag of burns/science plan/royal canin/any other food that is sold in the surgery. That is why their the 3 main foods in every vets across the country. Burns would be the better choice out of all three, although it didn't agree with my terrier at all.

I feed my dogs (a collie crossbreed and terrier) Gain elite small dogs which is not sold in supermarkets. In fact I've never seen any of the Gain range sold in supermarkets. It costs me €39.99 for an 8KG bag. Both my dogs coats are in fantastic condition, also another poster mentioned pasta being a bad additive to food - not the case at all. Whole grain pasta is a brilliant food to add in once a week to food, as is brown rice and sardines.

robertmck89 · 01-10-2014 11:07am

i pay 40 euro for a 15 kg bag of GAINS elite big dog puppy for my 6 month old rottweiler. i find it brilliant and its a VERY healthy choice for my rottie. my vet recommends it and even the guy in the pet shop recommended it over some of the more expensive brands.

tk123 · 01-10-2014 11:24am

[QUOTE=robertmck89;92426564i find it brilliant and its a VERY healthy choice for my rottie.[/QUOTE]

What made you decide it's VERY healthy as a matter of interest?

willmunny1990 · 01-10-2014 1:47pm

I just got my dog weighed today, shes 19.8kg, target weight is around 16kg.

Shes 12 years old and I had her on 150g of Burns weight control, after the weigh in I was told to cut her down to 100-120g.

Probably have to stick to Burns due to the fact the numbers are low and you seem to get a lot out of a little food although I know she'll be ravenous on this amount as she was even bad on the 150 grams.

Nody · 01-10-2014 1:58pm

willmunny1990 wrote: »

I just got my dog weighed today, shes 19.8kg, target weight is around 16kg.

Shes 12 years old and I had her on 150g of Burns weight control, after the weigh in I was told to cut her down to 100-120g.

Probably have to stick to Burns due to the fact the numbers are low and you seem to get a lot out of a little food although I know she'll be ravenous on this amount as she was even bad on the 150 grams.

Add a bit of raw pumpkin (and reduce kibble) to make her feel fuller due to the fibre in it. Also stop giving her any treats beyond the likes of carrot etc.

Alternatively look at getting her on a better quality food in general (Oats (55%), Brown Rice (18%)) and use that to lower her weight by feeding slightly below recommendations for target weight.

willmunny1990 · 01-10-2014 2:20pm

Nody wrote: »

Add a bit of raw pumpkin (and reduce kibble) to make her feel fuller due to the fibre in it. Also stop giving her any treats beyond the likes of carrot etc.

Alternatively look at getting her on a better quality food in general (Oats (55%), Brown Rice (18%)) and use that to lower her weight by feeding slightly below recommendations for target weight.

As in?

Nody · 01-10-2014 2:38pm

willmunny1990 wrote: »

As in?

Anything grain free, Taste of the Wild, Nutrivet Instinct Dietetic & Care (for older dogs with weight issue which is why I'm linking a specific one rather than mention the brand), Orijen or Lukullus (to mention a few of the common brands) or simply adding more vegs into his diet (the Raw feeding thread should give you some ideas). You could also look at ways to activate him more (i.e. kong feeder and the like) to make him spend more energy (without adding additional stress on joints) in a fun and easy way.

willmunny1990 · 01-10-2014 2:50pm

Nody wrote: »

Anything grain free, Taste of the Wild, Nutrivet Instinct Dietetic & Care (for older dogs with weight issue which is why I'm linking a specific one rather than mention the brand), Orijen or Lukullus (to mention a few of the common brands) or simply adding more vegs into his diet (the Raw feeding thread should give you some ideas). You could also look at ways to activate him more (i.e. kong feeder and the like) to make him spend more energy (without adding additional stress on joints) in a fun and easy way.

Thanks, I'll look into those brands.

I doubt you'd by any chance find any of those grain free products in a pet shop or anywhere though, ordering online is a bit of a hassle.

Nody · 01-10-2014 2:55pm

willmunny1990 wrote: »

Thanks, I'll look into those brands.

I doubt you'd by any chance find any of those grain free products in a pet shop or anywhere though, ordering online is a bit of a hassle.

A good sized pet shop would have at least Taste of the Wild but most likely most of those from my experience but you are correct that they are not in every pet store. Another option is of course to order from the likes of Zooplus.ie (I think they should give me commission by the number of times I keep on mentioning them

) for delivery to a suitable location (i.e. work/parents/friend etc. who can recieve it).

andreac · 01-10-2014 2:58pm

willmunny1990 wrote: »

Thanks, I'll look into those brands.

I doubt you'd by any chance find any of those grain free products in a pet shop or anywhere though, ordering online is a bit of a hassle.

I find ordering online much easier than going to a pet shop. Im lucky though that the food i get is local enough to me but i find ordering online great.

tk123 · 01-10-2014 3:03pm

willmunny1990 wrote: »

Thanks, I'll look into those brands.

I doubt you'd by any chance find any of those grain free products in a pet shop or anywhere though, ordering online is a bit of a hassle.

PetStop - Acana and PetWorld sell Barking Heads and Arden Grange - both of which have cereal free varieties

willmunny1990 · 04-10-2014 10:43am

I was shopping around today and the only grain free brand I found available was Canagan.

Very expensive though, nearly 20 euro for a 2kg bag.

muddypaws · 04-10-2014 11:07am

willmunny1990 wrote: »

I was shopping around today and the only grain free brand I found available was Canagan.

Very expensive though, nearly 20 euro for a 2kg bag.

The James Wellbeloved vegetable range is grain free, turkey, lamb or duck and should be fairly easily available on line and in bricks and mortar shops.

Although, personally I'm not sure why grain free is so important, when a dog is sick, everyone always recommends boiled chicken and rice, I get confused as to why that is good for your dog, but a complete food with rice isn't

Nody · 04-10-2014 4:19pm

muddypaws wrote: »

Although, personally I'm not sure why grain free is so important, when a dog is sick, everyone always recommends boiled chicken and rice, I get confused as to why that is good for your dog, but a complete food with rice isn't

Well at least in my case I'll state grain free meaning no wheat/soy/maize with a max of 20% rice specified :P

tk123 · 04-10-2014 4:34pm

muddypaws wrote: »

The James Wellbeloved vegetable range is grain free, turkey, lamb or duck and should be fairly easily available on line and in bricks and mortar shops.

Although, personally I'm not sure why grain free is so important, when a dog is sick, everyone always recommends boiled chicken and rice, I get confused as to why that is good for your dog, but a complete food with rice isn't

Is it to do with storage mites in the rice? With Bailey he had a very bad reaction with Luath and switching to grain free kibble made a hugh difference. ..But at the same time the last few months I've started to mix a small amount cooked rice in with their meat and the LOVE it!! I read on a FB forum ...in a reply to a thread where somebody had bought gravy bones from a pet shop in the uk that were infested with beetles.. the person replying had had the same problem with a brand of dry food and it was sent off for analysis etc etc - turned out the cereal content was unsold and now mouldy brown bread that they were getting off a bakery!

SingItOut · 04-10-2014 5:16pm

muddypaws wrote: »

Although, personally I'm not sure why grain free is so important, when a dog is sick, everyone always recommends boiled chicken and rice, I get confused as to why that is good for your dog, but a complete food with rice isn't

I agree. My terrier always had problems with her anal glands becoming blocked but since boiling some rice for her a few times a week that problem is pretty much eliminated now.

tk123 · 04-10-2014 6:10pm

SingItOut wrote: »

I agree. My terrier always had problems with her anal glands becoming blocked but since boiling some rice for her a few times a week that problem is pretty much eliminated now.

That kind of goes in the favour or cereal free foods though or my opinion that real rice and dry dog food rice aren't the same thing. Was she on a "complete food" with rice already in it?

SingItOut · 04-10-2014 8:09pm

Her Gain contains 20% rice. I can't remember which jameswellbeloved she was on but she was on burns Puppy chicken and rice so I gave that to her on its own mixed with sardines occasionally. I didn't give her rice with the JWB or burns as they were grain based

DBB · 04-10-2014 10:01pm

muddypaws wrote: »

Although, personally I'm not sure why grain free is so important, when a dog is sick, everyone always recommends boiled chicken and rice, I get confused as to why that is good for your dog, but a complete food with rice isn't

Rice is gluten free. For that reason, if a cereal is to be used, rice is a very benign grain. Having said that, I know a number of dogs who can't even eat rice, whether in dry food, or in a chicken and rice concoction. Personally, if I have a sick dog, it's chicken and boiled potato they get, not rice.

Gain or Burns??

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