Question: confiscated car

Kenny Logins · 24-03-2013 10:28pm

colm_mcm wrote: »

But as far as I know its cumulative ie €700 plus 5%, then 735 plus €5% etc

Pretty sure it's 0.1% per day though..

Seweryn · 24-03-2013 10:29pm

Kenny Logins wrote: »

Pretty sure it's 0.1% per day though..

Yeah, but 0.1% on €0.00 VRT is still €0.00

.

Seweryn · 24-03-2013 10:30pm

colm_mcm wrote: »

An exemption is available subject to actually following the rules. I don't think it applies 8 years on.

I do not think there are any rules that are applicable to the above case to be honest.

colm_mcm · 24-03-2013 10:32pm

Seweryn wrote: »

I do not think there are any rules that are applicable to the above case to be honest.

As in you need to register the car within a set time frame? You need to have had the car abroad for a certain time before registering, I'd assume that living in Ireland for say a year would mean that you didn't live abroad and have the car abroad for that year.

The vrt exemption is pretty generous (give that we all pay vrt, I know vrt not 'fair' etc) so if you're availing of it its only fair you do your part and actually get it together to actually register the car. Driving would involve having to tax it in Ireland though.

Seweryn · 24-03-2013 10:34pm

colm_mcm wrote: »

As in you need to register the car within a set time frame?

Sure, and you pay % of the VRT fee if you are late.

But what if your VRT is €0 in the first place?

challengemaster · 24-03-2013 10:35pm

colm_mcm wrote: »

Lets suppose the vrt due is €700 and the cars been overdue payment for 96 months. Isn't the vrt payable €700 cumulatively increased by 5% 95 times

Am I bonkers, or does that mean he owes €48,000?

Trying to figure this out..

36% rate, minimum payment of €720 - so we're saying the OMSP is €2000

Penalty for the first 6 months is 10%, so €200

After that, previous penalty increases each month by 5% of OMSP (€100)

(90*€100) + €200 = €9,200 total

+ VRT cost @€;720 = €9,920

(based on what I read here - http://www.vrt.ie/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=515)

flutered · 24-03-2013 10:37pm

i recently became aquainted with a polish person who drives a 2.5 yoke, i asked how can you afford to run it, tax insurance petrol, i was told no tax, i asked why, i was told the ticket for no tax is €60, a no brainer.

Kenny Logins · 24-03-2013 10:40pm

Seweryn wrote: »

Sure, and you pay % of the VRT fee if you are late.

But what if your VRT is €0 in the first place?

That exemption must be applied for, it isn't automatic.

CiniO · 24-03-2013 10:42pm

flutered wrote: »

i recently became aquainted with a polish person who drives a 2.5 yoke, i asked how can you afford to run it, tax insurance petrol, i was told no tax, i asked why, i was told the ticket for no tax is €60, a no brainer.

I agree that it's no brainer to have to pay tax of over a grand, and in case being caught to be liable to fine of 60.
It should be opposite. Tax 60, and fine over a grand. Than the system would work properly.

Marcusm · 24-03-2013 11:05pm

colm_mcm wrote: »

As in you need to register the car within a set time frame? You need to have had the car abroad for a certain time before registering, I'd assume that living in Ireland for say a year would mean that you didn't live abroad and have the car abroad for that year.

The vrt exemption is pretty generous (give that we all pay vrt, I know vrt not 'fair' etc) so if you're availing of it its only fair you do your part and actually get it together to actually register the car. Driving would involve having to tax it in Ireland though.

In this case, however, it seems likely that there should not have been any VRT (a point I made a few pages back). Vis a vis delay, I know of one instance of 3 years or so before the car was registered and all she was asked to do was pay the motortax she woud have paid if it had been re reg'd within 30 days. Denial of the exemption outright is more difficult as it's needed to ensure VRT does unfairly restrict free movement rights under the EU treaty. Although 8 years is excessive, I'll bet Ireland woudn't want to take the case given that it doesn't make it easy to know it's available (leaflets and websites in English only etc) and more leeway will be given to the individual than the State.

angeliukas92 · 25-03-2013 11:03am

exaisle wrote: »

The car has been driven here for 8 years without having road tax, VRT, correct insurance or NCT charges paid. It's quite possible that it's in a dangerous condition and that it's a danger to other road users.

I think it unlikely that anybody will have sympathy for your father.

I also think it likely that he'll be charged for driving with no tax, incorrect insurance, no NCT cert and possibly non-payment of VRT.

As far as I'm concerned, fair play to the Gardai.

no , like he had everything for the car , but it was in european union. the insurence would cover up any demage or something cos thats why he was paying money , and nct was done every year but in lithuania. but it when out of date in january and he bought a new car and started to fix it up like vrt , unsurence tax and all that

angeliukas92 · 25-03-2013 11:11am

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

do you feel that you entitled to cheat our tax and insurance laws because you are foreign or what?

why should you not have to buy tax and insurance but everybody else on this island does?

hope it gets crushed.

well the tax and nct and insurence was paid for our other car, this car wasn't for a daily use, so mostly it was stored in a garage . but taken for a spin, it was like a vintage car

angeliukas92 · 25-03-2013 11:30am

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

you may be a law abiding eastern european irish resident, which is great.

but do take off your rosy tinted glasses, its no secret there are droves of eastern europeans in this country out to dodge giving the irish economy a cent.

like the OP's dad.

Don't you thing that my dad didn't pay for vrt and irish taxes, he paid then in his own county, incase of a acsident for an irish driver to get payed. he pays everything and he is not on a social welfare by the way, talk more about the gipsy coming in to the ireland steeling and all that ****, staying on a dole and have **** alot of baby's. how many millions is washed away...

Gary ITR · 25-03-2013 11:38am

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

you may be a law abiding eastern european irish resident, which is great.

but do take off your rosy tinted glasses, its no secret there are droves of eastern europeans in this country out to dodge giving the irish economy a cent.

like the OP's dad.

Plenty of Irish people dodge giving our economy a cent either. How many dole lifers do you know of? I know of quite a few

Also, without having Eastern Europeans here we wouldn't have Eastern European women, which would be a crime in itself

furtzy · 25-03-2013 11:41am

Troll

monkeypants · 25-03-2013 11:48am

angeliukas92 wrote: »

Don't you thing that my dad didn't pay for vrt and irish taxes, he paid then in his own county, incase of a acsident for an irish driver to get payed. he pays everything

If that's the case, then he shouldn't have any problem getting the car back. Just bring all the paperwork proving the above.

angeliukas92 · 25-03-2013 11:49am

Gary ITR wrote: »

Plenty of Irish people dodge giving our economy a cent either. How many dole lifers do you know of? I know of quite a few

Also, without having Eastern Europeans here we wouldn't have Eastern European women, which would be a crime in itself

most of the Irish people run away to Canada or somewhere ells I think they dodge foren country rules as well . sure you all like eastern european women

angeliukas92 · 25-03-2013 11:51am

monkeypants wrote: »

If that's the case, then he shouldn't have any problem getting the car back. Just bring all the paperwork proving the above.

they don't accept it . they say it's Lithuanian even it is whiten that it is valid in European union. they don't care , they say to still get the Irish paper work, like as Ireland was not in European union..

Graham · 25-03-2013 11:51am

OT angeliukas92 but I must ask how did you install the Borat accent on your PC?

angeliukas92 · 25-03-2013 11:54am

Graham wrote: »

OT angeliukas92 but I must ask how did you install the Borat accent on your PC?

what????? whatsa borat acent and how do you know it's on my pc ??

BRAIN FEEDs · 25-03-2013 11:58am

Graham wrote: »

OT angeliukas92 but I must ask how did you install the Borat accent on your PC?

its all here Graham http://www.soundboard.com/sb/borat have fun,high five :pac:

Graham · 25-03-2013 12:00pm

Issa hokay, I founda Manuel accent plug-in

ShadowHearth · 25-03-2013 12:15pm

High horse is strong with this thread...

CiniO · 25-03-2013 1:17pm

angeliukas92 wrote: »

they don't accept it . they say it's Lithuanian even it is whiten that it is valid in European union. they don't care , they say to still get the Irish paper work, like as Ireland was not in European union..

All because Ireland has a rule, that Irish residents (people who live in Ireland - like your dad) are not allowed to own or drive a car registered in other country.
Even though car has insurance and valid test from that country.

I know it's stupid, but that's the rules unfortunately.

Kenny Logins · 25-03-2013 1:20pm

CiniO wrote: »

All because Ireland has a rule, that Irish residents (people who live in Ireland - like your dad) are not allowed to own or drive a car registered in other country.
Even though car has insurance and valid test from that country.

I know it's stupid, but that's the rules unfortunately.

It's not a stupid rule. How can Gardaí check insurance, tax and test details of a car registered in another country? They have enough difficulty doing this with Irish cars.

CiniO · 25-03-2013 1:36pm

Kenny Logins wrote: »

It's not a stupid rule. How can Gardaí check insurance, tax and test details of a car registered in another country? They have enough difficulty doing this with Irish cars.

All over EU, police doesn't seem to have problem with it.
Why garda should have.

Kenny Logins · 25-03-2013 1:39pm

CiniO wrote: »

All over EU, police doesn't seem to have problem with it.
Why garda should have.

That applies to temporary imports, which this case clearly isn't.

CiniO · 25-03-2013 1:42pm

Kenny Logins wrote: »

That applies to temporary imports, which this case clearly isn't.

I just responded to you argument, that gards can't check insurance and test on foreign car.
If you say they can on temporary imports, than why couldn't they do the same when imported car is staying here for longer?

Kenny Logins · 25-03-2013 1:46pm

CiniO wrote: »

I just responded to you argument, that gards can't check insurance and test on foreign car.
If you say they can on temporary imports, than why couldn't they do the same when imported car is staying here for longer?

No, I meant they can't easily check details on any foreign registered car but in the case of a temporary import it isn't as important.

I believe the same rule applies in UK - if you are resident you must tax and register locally.

Your Airbag · 25-03-2013 2:07pm

flutered wrote: »

i recently became aquainted with a polish person who drives a 2.5 yoke, i asked how can you afford to run it, tax insurance petrol, i was told no tax, i asked why, i was told the ticket for no tax is €60, a no brainer.

Don't the Gardai look for a reason of non display though. What is your mate going to say when asked about the last time the car was taxed? If he says never the Gardai can seize the car.

He might get away with it on the first stop but the second time if the Garda radio's back to HQ to see if the car has a record of being stopped for no tax they will surely seize it rather than a non display fine the second time and he will end up in court.

Thats why I hear lots of people do the 3 months on and 3 months off system of taxing their cars because the Gardai tend to be more lenient when the can see a recent tax record on the car and its either a produce in ten days or a €60 fine as opposed to a seizure.

This could be just talk though, you would think they'd have a record of non display fines tied to each person and car and would have them sussed and would start seizures when they encounter said person again.

CiniO · 25-03-2013 2:08pm

Kenny Logins wrote: »

No, I meant they can't easily check details on any foreign registered car but in the case of a temporary import it isn't as important.

To be honest, why do you think it isn't important on temporary imported cars?

I believe the same rule applies in UK - if you are resident you must tax and register locally.

The same rule applies in many EU countries. Usually those who charge registration tax of motor tax.
Other countries allows foreign cars to be driven without any limit.

But THB police shouldn't have a problem checking if foreign car is insured and tested.

When I was pulled over by police in Poland in my Irish registerd car (and this was several times), I always was asked to produce logbook, insurance cert and NCT cert on the spot. Police even had blanks in squad car how those things should look like.

Kenny Logins · 25-03-2013 2:18pm

Hang on, this is going slightly off now. You said

CiniO wrote: »

All because Ireland has a rule, that Irish residents (people who live in Ireland - like your dad) are not allowed to own or drive a car registered in other country.
Even though car has insurance and valid test from that country.

I know it's stupid, but that's the rules unfortunately.

My point is that this isn't a stupid rule, and applies in many EU countries - if you are resident, you must register and tax your car locally.

What countries allow you to drive foreign registered cars without limit?

CiniO · 25-03-2013 2:22pm

Kenny Logins wrote: »

Hang on, this is going slightly off now. You said

My point is that this isn't a stupid rule, and applies in many EU countries - if you are resident, you must register and tax your car locally.

And I said it was stupid, as I would love to see this scrapped all over EU, and have one big open market for cars, possibly with one kind of unified EU numberplates, and no taxes.
But that's just dreams.

What countries allow you to drive foreign registered cars without limit?

The best example I know is Poland.
You can drive a foreign registered car, as long as it's insured and tested.

Big Davey · 25-03-2013 2:29pm

AndyTheDude wrote: »

Right. So, Ireland got to this state because of all those pesky EEs bending the rules and doing their little scams? :rolleyes: Get a grip, dude. I know that life can get hard, but you sound desperate here...

If I was desperate I would be doing what the OP father was doing. Obviously you condone or participate in similar behaviour.

rocky · 25-03-2013 4:59pm

I thought he didn't have insurance on the "quick fixxer upper car"? He had a different car that was insured, but this one wasn't...

well the tax and nct and insurence was paid for our other car, this car wasn't for a daily use, so mostly it was stored in a garage . but taken for a spin, it was like a vintage car

angeliukas92 · 04-03-2014 11:19pm

well,
the car was crushed , And 200 euro fine was given to him for not getting the vrt,
Because the car was fully covered with insurance and if an accident occurred no matter who's fault it was the insurance would have paid out , Car had The lithuanian NCT .
So that the end of the story , just sadly the car could have been vintage car just in 3 years .

Interceptor · 05-03-2014 11:53am

angeliukas92 wrote: »

So that the end of the story , just sadly the car could have been vintage an old car just in 3 years .

You don't say what it was, but not every thirty year old Opel Kadett is 'vintage'.

Having exploited the 'avoid tax by driving in Ireland on foreign plate' loophole I'm vaguely pleased that he won't be able to exploit the 'avoid tax by driving an old car and claiming it is vintage' loophole. I can't always take the moral high ground on car tax avoidance but your father was taking the biscuit.

'c

bear1 · 05-03-2014 4:08pm

Regarding the Polish example, I have an Irish registered car here at the moment. I have been told that the car can stay here for a 12 consecutive months as long as the car is road legal in Ireland.
I believe this to be an EU wide law so the law in Ireland applies everywhere else in the EU.

jimgoose · 05-03-2014 4:18pm

BRAIN FEEDs wrote: »

what purpose would this serve? it would probably cost the state money in legal aid and a fine might only end up being paid to the poor box/retired solicitors fund/an garda siochana.

Justice is a non-profit organization, theoretically at least.

jimgoose · 05-03-2014 4:22pm

CiniO wrote: »

All over EU, police doesn't seem to have problem with it.
Why garda should have.

You'll find that most countries have a big problem with it if the driver is resident there and their car isn't. OP, your father needs to sort his goddom paperwork the same as the rest of us.

http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/vehicles/registration/taxes/index_en.htm

angeliukas92 · 05-03-2014 5:51pm

okey let me tell you that . how many irish people get away for not buying taxes ? driving without taxes , aww well only 70 euru fine , that okey ??? more the 50% . They don't ****ing know how to drive a car, they cause accidents ! more than 70% in ireland don't even use turn light . Or grannys at old age barely walk , drive at 20 where speed limit it 100 ? it's okey is it ? It okey for not showing what direction you are turning ? because if someone bumbs in his ass it's your fault because you didn't keep the distance ?

tin79 · 05-03-2014 5:54pm

angeliukas92 wrote: »

because if someone bumbs in his ass it's your fault because you didn't keep the distance ?

I think you might be in the wrong forum

Also its hard to justify what your father did. He rolled the dice and he got caught. No need to blow a fuse and start spouting made up rubbish statistics and bias.

CiniO · 05-03-2014 5:55pm

bear1 wrote: »

Regarding the Polish example, I have an Irish registered car here at the moment. I have been told that the car can stay here for a 12 consecutive months as long as the car is road legal in Ireland.

So you weren't told exactly true.

While possibly there is some law limiting time a foreign car can be used in Poland (I can't find it), but it doesn't matter, as in reality it's not enforced. No one is going to bother you even if you use your Irish registered car in Poland for 5 years.

In relation to requirement for the car to be "road legal in Ireland" it's again not exactly true.
For the car to be road legal in Ireland you need to have valid insurance, tax and NCT, and display all three discs.
If you are using Irish registered car in Poland, you must have valid insurance and NCT. You must carry VRC, and Insurance cert with you at all times.
There is no need to have valid Irish tax.
And there is no need to display any discs on the window.
It's probably a good idea to have NCT cert with you, but there is no law requiring you to do it.

So the main difference is tax really. Irish registered cars used in Poland doesn't need to have valid tax.

EDIT:
Bear1 I double checked it.
There is no such thing as 12 months limit.
Obviously there is a law requiring people to reregister a car they purchase within 30 days, and that applies to car purchased in Poland and abroad.
So if you live in Poland and go to Germany to buy a car from someone, you have 30 days to register it in your name in Poland.
If you buy Polish registered car from your neighbour - same story - you have 30 days to reregister it in your name.
But in your case, when you have a car registered in Ireland in your name, you are not purchasing a car, so there is no requirement to reregister it. That's the law.
You can drive it in Poland as long as you wish, provided car is insured and has valid NCT.

angeliukas92 · 05-03-2014 5:58pm

different country different rules, non of them give a **** that they are in Europe Union !

CiniO · 05-03-2014 6:02pm

angeliukas92 wrote: »

different country different rules, non of them give a **** that they are in Europe Union !

I agree with you.
When it comes to motoring, every county acts like a cowboy.
There is no one single EU-wide market for car and rules of traffic, insurance, tax, etc...
Pity, because EU would be so much nicer if this was unified.

View · 05-03-2014 6:13pm

bear1 wrote: »

Regarding the Polish example, I have an Irish registered car here at the moment. I have been told that the car can stay here for a 12 consecutive months as long as the car is road legal in Ireland.
I believe this to be an EU wide law so the law in Ireland applies everywhere else in the EU.

Depending on your circumstances this is almost certainly NOT true.

If you have moved "pemanently" (i.e. taken up residence, job etc), you need to conform to local laws and be locally registrated, insured, taxed etc. You also usually have to do this pretty much immediately after you arrive or shortyly thereafter.

If you are a temporary "visitor" (i.e. you are a tourist of there for let's say a few months work on a short project), you probably don't have to re-register etc but do check - with officials or a solicitor - what the local laws are.

Do not make assumptions - if you are involved in a traffic accident, you could end up in really hot water over your lack of non-local paperwork if you are required to have re-registered etc

CiniO · 05-03-2014 6:19pm

View wrote: »

Depending on your circumstances this is almost certainly NOT true.

If you have moved "pemanently" (i.e. taken up residence, job etc), you need to conform to local laws and be locally registrated, insured, taxed etc. You also usually have to do this pretty much immediately after you arrive or shortyly thereafter.

If you are a temporary "visitor" (i.e. you are a tourist of there for let's say a few months work on a short project), you probably don't have to re-register etc but do check - with officials or a solicitor - what the local laws are.

Do not make assumptions - if you are involved in a traffic accident, you could end up in really hot water over your lack of non-local paperwork if you are required to have re-registered etc

What you are saying here, is not true.
In Poland there is no requirement to register a car on obtaining residence.
Even further - even if there is requirement to do it within 12 months, it's not enforced, and there are no consequences for not doing so.
What is enforced though, that car has valid insurance and test.

alias no.9 · 05-03-2014 6:42pm

CiniO wrote: »

So you weren't told exactly true.
While possibly there is some law limiting time a foreign car can be used in Poland (I can't find it), but it doesn't matter, as in reality it's not enforced. No one is going to bother you even if you use your Irish registered car in Poland for 5 years.

In relation to requirement for the car to be "road legal in Ireland" it's again not exactly true.
For the car to be road legal in Ireland you need to have valid insurance, tax and NCT, and display all three discs.
If you are using Irish registered car in Poland, you must have valid insurance and NCT. You must carry VRC, and Insurance cert with you at all times.
There is no need to have valid Irish tax.
And there is no need to display any discs on the window.
It's probably a good idea to have NCT cert with you, but there is no law requiring you to do it.

So the main difference is tax really. Irish registered cars used in Poland doesn't need to have valid tax.

The freedom to bring a car registered in one EU country into another EU country is contingent on it being 100% compliant with its home country regulations and while the Polish Police might not be bothered enforcing the displaying of discs in the windscreen, it most certainly is a requirement and they could choose to enforce it at any time, or maybe if they just didn't like you.
You have to be exceptionally unlucky to get done for no NCT in this country and a little bit unlucky to get done for no Motor Tax, but it does happen and when it does, it really is tough ****. Similarly it would seem that the chances of being done for no Motor Tax on an Irish registered car in Poland are very slim but again if you are done for it, it's tough ****. By all means tell them the Polish Police really don't care and let them make up their own mind whether to take a chance, but I wouldn't go telling people they don't need it.

V.W.L 11 · 05-03-2014 6:51pm

section 41 of the road traffic act 1994 (AS AMENDED) is the act for vehicle seizures,section 56 of the road traffic act 1961 (AS AMENDED) deals with insurance,and I think section 73 of the finance act 1976 (AS AMENDED) covers the motor tax issue,not too sure what the act for the NCT is though,but sure look if I went to your country OP and done what your father did I very much doubt i'd get away with it for 8 days let alone 8 years,was the car crushed????I hope to f**k it was,i'm sick of being screwed as a motorist when the likes of your father think they are immune from irish road traffic legislation!!!!! RANT OVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

CiniO · 05-03-2014 6:58pm

alias no.9 wrote: »

The freedom to bring a car registered in one EU country into another EU country is contingent on it being 100% compliant with its home country regulations

That's not true.
Can you point any law stating that?

Most countries operate on basis of Vienna convention on road traffic from 1968 when it comes to international traffic.
This convention puts some requirements on foreign cars (f.e. requirement for the car to fulfill all technical requirements from country of registration), but it certainly doesn't put requirement for vehicle to be 100% compliant with all home country regulations.
Irish motortax is perfect example. It's required by Irish Finance act, and has absolutely nothing to do with international traffic.
Irish car can be driven without TAX in most countries around the world (obviously except Ireland, and possibly UK).

and while the Polish Police might not be bothered enforcing the displaying of discs in the windscreen, it most certainly is a requirement

No it isn't.
If you don't believe me, you are free to point out a piece of Polish law putting up such an requirement.

and they could choose to enforce it at any time, or maybe if they just didn't like you.

They can't enforce law which doesn't exist.

You have to be exceptionally unlucky to get done for no NCT in this country and a little bit unlucky to get done for no Motor Tax, but it does happen and when it does, it really is tough ****.

In Ireland - certainly.

Similarly it would seem that the chances of being done for no Motor Tax on an Irish registered car in Poland are very slim

They are not slim. They are non-existant, as it's not illegal to drive untaxed Irish car in Poland.

but again if you are done for it, it's tough ****. By all means tell them the Polish Police really don't care and let them make up their own mind whether to take a chance, but I wouldn't go telling people they don't need it.

I can tell that, because they really don't need it.
That's the law.

Question: confiscated car

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