Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 11/12 (End of March 2012 onwards)

LimGal · 14-04-2012 6:39pm

Phoenix Park wrote: »

I thought Gerrard was average at best to be perfectly honest. Thats not where we won the game i reckon.

Enrique may have been very poor of late but to switch Agger to LB and bring Carra in at centre half is madness. As much as i hate seeing Carra at RB i'd have preferred to see him there rather than in the middle, switch Glen Johnson to LB, and then keep the Skytel-Agger partnership in the middle. Or else play Coates in the middle and Agger can then play LB. I think Kenny was always gonna play Carra today, being the local derby and a day for the grinders. Anything is better than Carra at centre half at this stage, he's so slow and has to play so deep that Brad Jones looks like the centre half at times and Carra the goalie :eek:

I know what you are saying PP.......but I think its a bit over the top to say Kennys selections were madness when they worked,we won and are into our 2nd final.

atilladehun · 14-04-2012 6:45pm

Phoenix Park wrote: »

I thought Gerrard was average at best to be perfectly honest. Thats not where we won the game i reckon.

Enrique may have been very poor of late but to switch Agger to LB and bring Carra in at centre half is madness. As much as i hate seeing Carra at RB i'd have preferred to see him there rather than in the middle, switch Glen Johnson to LB, and then keep the Skytel-Agger partnership in the middle. Or else play Coates in the middle and Agger can then play LB. I think Kenny was always gonna play Carra today, being the local derby and a day for the grinders. Anything is better than Carra at centre half at this stage, he's so slow and has to play so deep that Brad Jones looks like the centre half at times and Carra the goalie :eek:

Great to get the win - Just re-watched the highlights there. Carroll was great for the whole game. Suarez was brilliant too.

Our trouble spot was midfield. They were too static when the defense had the ball. Didn't give any options to pass. Put the defense under pressure. Typical of Gerrard in a 4-4-2. Can't wait for Lucas to return.

Looking forward to a settled back four again, it's been a while.

Jones did well. What a nice man.

murpho999 · 14-04-2012 6:49pm

Chucky the tree wrote: »

It's just impossible for you to win a discussion with me because you are always wrong. As I said, how long should players/managers be given time to prove themselves? Should we still have Neil Mellor at the club because he set up a goal in the CL against Olympiacos or scored a cracker against Arsenal? Carroll has been muck for the whole time he has been here, you might disagree and think he's been excellent, fair enough. Scoring a goal against a relegation battling side or a mid-table premier league outfit doesn't change that fact. If today performance showed you he's been worth £35m or can be as Van Persie, Rooney, Ageuro, Tevez or even Adebayor then you are more delluded than I originally thought. Either that or your standards for where Liverpool should be are alot further behind than mine. Maybe the 4 year timescale is right, maybe by then he'll finally accept Carragher isn't good enough to start for us, unlikely though.

Where did I say Carroll was worth £35m? (that's your style of posting!)

We all know he wasn't worth the fee and you keep going on about that, but the fee is not Carroll's fault and he should not be criticised over it all the time.

I disagree totally that Carroll has been muck for the whole time, he had a tough start, had fitness issues, media pressure and then confidence issues. Also think Kenny did him no favours by not picking him, but he has definitely improved as the season has gone on and I'm hoping that he will no go on to be a successful player for us.
I think the difference is that I want him to be a success but you come across as wanting him to fail all because of a price tag he had no control over.

My standards are quite high as to where Liverpool should be but if people thought that Liverpool should be challenging for titles a year after Hodgson had them flirting with relegation then they are deluded.
Kenny has had to come from a very low base and that doesn't happen in one season, and I believe that both he and some players should be given more than one season to prove their worth.

Your Neil Mellor comments are laughable by the way!

darced · 14-04-2012 6:55pm

This post has been deleted.

NukaCola · 14-04-2012 6:55pm

LimGal wrote: »

I know what you are saying PP.......but I think its a bit over the top to say Kennys selections were madness when they worked,we won and are into our 2nd final.

Carra was played and Enrique was left out because of the aerial threat that Everton pose, hence keeping Agger in the team. Thats all i can think of being honest. That and Kenny gave him the nod because of sentiment. Maybe a bit of both? A more attacking team would have caused us a lot of problems in that back four.

We could have had Johnson Skrtel Agger Enrique as our back four and done the same job at least IMO. I think it wasnt a great move leaving out Enrique, who has been very good for us this season, in favour of Carra playing, who hasnt been great for some time now.

mike65 · 14-04-2012 7:01pm

What Carra said this morning

I know I am not first-choice but if people get knocks or suspensions I am there to come in and help and do as well as I can. I would never think about moving on in the summer, no, no.

So he recognises his place in the scheme of things apparently, it would be good for Dalglish endorse this by playing Coates when one of Agger/Skrtel isn't playing.

LuckyLloyd · 14-04-2012 7:21pm

atilladehun wrote: »

Jones did well. What a nice man.

Seems to be a classy individual alright, and it looked like the win meant an awful lot to him.

Also, he might have looked a tad shakey at times, but **** me - he came out and attacked every ball. It was gutsy, even if it wasn't brilliant.

redzerdrog · 14-04-2012 7:24pm

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Seems to be a classy individual alright, and it looked like the win meant an awful lot to him.

Also, he might have looked a tad shakey at times, but **** me - he came out and attacked every ball. It was gutsy, even if it wasn't brilliant.

Really liked the one were he flattened Carroll to get a fist on it, love seeing a keeper just clear averyone to get to a ball!!

El Inho · 14-04-2012 7:29pm

redzerdrog wrote: »

Really liked the one were he flattened Carroll to get a fist on it, love seeing a keeper just clear averyone to get to a ball!!

as a keeper myself, i can tell you it isnt easy to come for those balls. just the other day i made the mistake of staying on the line and cost us a goal...vital he was brave and came out...

and not many can argue the man, and his family deserves some happy memories.

murpho999 · 14-04-2012 7:31pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EEw-jYkK71E

I think no matter how you feel about Carra as a player, you can't help but like this interview.
Think it shows how much the club means to him.

ardinn · 14-04-2012 7:53pm

Anyone any links to extended highlights? Was foggin it this afternoon when the match was on!

RasTa · 14-04-2012 7:56pm

mike65 wrote: »

What Carra said this morning

So he recognises his place in the scheme of things apparently, it would be good for Dalglish endorse this by playing Coates when one of Agger/Skrtel isn't playing.

I haven't seen that much of him this season but have read a lot of bad reports on here. Should he do the G.Neville and realize he is past it and retire?

murpho999 · 14-04-2012 7:57pm

ardinn wrote: »

Anyone any links to extended highlights? Was foggin it this afternoon when the match was on!

Am I getting old as I have genuinely no idea what this means?

redzerdrog · 14-04-2012 8:00pm

RasTa wrote: »

I haven't seen that much of him this season but have read a lot of bad reports on here. Should he do the G.Neville and realize he is past it and retire?

with the added games of the europa league he is still needed but will certainly be 4th choice CB next season and that is prob the level he is at.

It also gives us an extra year to blood the like of wisdom into the 1st team set up and I am sure Carra's experience would be invaluable here.

Also have Danny Wilson who iirc is out on loan at Blackpool. Anyone know is he playing regularly?

ardinn · 14-04-2012 8:05pm

murpho999 wrote: »

Am I getting old as I have genuinely no idea what this means?

Anyone any links to extended highlights? Important bit.

Was foggin it - Sleeping

El Inho · 14-04-2012 8:06pm

murpho999 wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EEw-jYkK71E

I think no matter how you feel about Carra as a player, you can't help but like this interview.
Think it shows how much the club means to him.

a few weeks back, some people might remember me slating carra a bit...thinking he was a little bit toxic to the defence...

today that little misjudgement between him and agger may have supported me more than anything else...

but when i saw carra choking up at the end of that interview...that all just went out the window...while i dont want him starting ahead of agger and skrtle, or in fact johnson or enrique, carra may be the exception to the rule on noone deserving a squad spot on merit alone.

Jesus Wept · 14-04-2012 8:11pm

Unfortunately the manager is overly sentimental like yourself and it will continue to cost us should it continue.

ush · 14-04-2012 8:25pm

Andy Carroll wrote: »

Unfortunately the manager is overly sentimental like yourself and it will continue to cost us should it continue.

The owners aren't. They need words like "sentiment" explained to them. They wonder if there's a futures market dealing in "sentiment".

djPSB · 14-04-2012 8:32pm

Leiva wrote: »

Spurs or Chelsea ?

Who do you want and why ?

discuss.

I'd prefer Spurs.

Chelsea have improved since RDM came in and have much more experience than Spurs in Cup finals.

djPSB · 14-04-2012 8:36pm

Dont be at yourself wrote: »

I thought Spearing was class today. Some very incisive passes in the final third too.

I thought he was very very poor. Offers very little. A defensive midfielder is a must in the summer.

billymitchell · 14-04-2012 8:40pm

djPSB wrote: »

I thought he was very very poor. Offers very little. A defensive midfielder is a must in the summer.

We basically need a Xabi Alonso/Scott Parker type player over the summer.
Who fits that bill and is available is another story.

djPSB · 14-04-2012 8:44pm

Mr Alan wrote: »

Brad Jones said after the match today that he always stays behind & is one of the hardest workers at the club, despite what the papers seem to want to believe.

It's strange because the analysts were raving about how good Jelavic was in the first half yet he contributed fack all to the game apart from the goal. Fair enough, it was a very good finish.

On the other hand Carroll contributed alot with knock downs and lay offs but was slated by Souness and likes and they said he should have been subbed at half time.

Also, Suarez was quite poor in the first half until he burst into life in the second half. He wasn't reading Carroll's knock downs at all early on and always seemed to be caught off side.

If Carroll can improve his finishing a bit, then he will be able to contribute alot to Liverpool over the next few years. It is not surprising either that he is hitting his best spell of form after getting a decent run of games back to back.

Dubit10 · 14-04-2012 8:45pm

djPSB wrote: »

I thought he was very very poor. Offers very little. A defensive midfielder is a must in the summer.

Whilst i don't think he was "very very poor" he offered nothing for us. I just don't see the lad improving as a footballer. I actually don't think we need a defensive midfielder come the Summer as Lucas is one of the best in the league at that and Jay will do as back up. What we need is an Alonso type creative midfielder because Adam will never cut the mustard.

djPSB · 14-04-2012 8:46pm

murpho999 wrote: »

Can't respond to all your points as I've learnt that it's impossible to win a discussion with you but my main point was that people here are too quick to call players/managers crap etc and not give people time to prove themselves. In the match thread people were calling for Kenny to be sacked because LFC had conceded a goal!

Carroll being the perfect example, had a tough time since his arrival and received nothing but criticism but hopefully today he's started to show people he's good enough.

Also, last 19 games have been poor, but I think Kenny deserves more time considering how bad things were in Jan 2011 when he took over. Perhaps your 4 year timescale is probably the real time he needs to turn it around.

They did the same to Rafa, they will do the same to Kenny.

Just never happy. Far away hills are always greener.

Chucky the tree · 14-04-2012 8:49pm

murpho999 wrote: »

Where did I say Carroll was worth £35m? (that's your style of posting!)

We all know he wasn't worth the fee and you keep going on about that, but the fee is not Carroll's fault and he should not be criticised over it all the time.

I disagree totally that Carroll has been muck for the whole time, he had a tough start, had fitness issues, media pressure and then confidence issues. Also think Kenny did him no favours by not picking him, but he has definitely improved as the season has gone on and I'm hoping that he will no go on to be a successful player for us.
I think the difference is that I want him to be a success but you come across as wanting him to fail all because of a price tag he had no control over.

My standards are quite high as to where Liverpool should be but if people thought that Liverpool should be challenging for titles a year after Hodgson had them flirting with relegation then they are deluded.
Kenny has had to come from a very low base and that doesn't happen in one season, and I believe that both he and some players should be given more than one season to prove their worth.

Your Neil Mellor comments are laughable by the way!

I never mentioned that you said he was, I was simply bringing up some facts. I also never said it was Carroll's fault but it's an important issue. The most important issue is that he still isn't good enough and never will be to be a regular starting striker for Liverpool. I don't want him to fail, however I don't want the club to drag its heels over replacing him because they feel he's good enough to be a player for us or will improve so they should keep playing him. Our current position is about the height of Carroll's ability, a decent mid-table player but if you want to push on from that we need to replace him.

No one said we should be challenging for titles, but we definitely shouldn't be in a mid-table battle with the mighty Swansea, Norwich and Everton while being 14 points off 4th place.

djPSB · 14-04-2012 8:49pm

Turtyturd wrote: »

I agree with you about Carroll, I will give him his dues that he has upped his performances recently but 2 goals haven't suddenly made him a world beater and he will have to go a long way to win me over after he bottled it against Newcastle but you gotta provide a better argument than that.:D

Who said he was a world beater?

I'm fairly sure people just said he played well which isn't a crime.

Chucky the tree · 14-04-2012 8:51pm

djPSB wrote: »

They did the same to Rafa, they will do the same to Kenny.

Just never happy. Far away hills are always greener.

But when they do it with hodgson it's okay. :pac:

richymcdermott · 14-04-2012 8:52pm

Carroll needs a good run on games , its a waste for the money we spent just for him to sit on the bench while play well previous games.
Hes on the lowest form since leaving his childhood club newcastle , so instead of bashing him cause of his price tag we should lift up his spirit and im sure he be great for us but needs a chance , he proved for awhile now hes trying his hardest , just needs luck and im sure it will come .

El Inho · 14-04-2012 8:56pm

Brad Jones wrote:

just glad to be able to give the guys a chance to come back in and hopefully win the final.

its roughly what he said...but this Tubs look alike has a place in my 'sentimental' heart now an all.

djPSB · 14-04-2012 9:06pm

A Question:

Supposing we win the FA Cup:

When people look back on this season in ten years time, will they think Liverpool or Arsenal had the more successful season?

kingshankly · 14-04-2012 9:09pm

Happy days another trip to London delighted for kenny andy and brad especially. Couldn't believe how negative everton were.
Carroll worked his socks off and Suarez was Suarez
Don't agree in splitting agger and skietel but I can see kenny was expecting a battle and had 7 English players in the first 11.
Hope kenny enjoys this after all the stick he has been getting(and a lot from me I can tell ya) but its another cup final for him and that's some achievement.
He made some errors as usual but we will talk about them during the week noes a time to celebrate and look forward to another cup final and the scramble for tickets

OwaynOTT · 14-04-2012 9:21pm

djPSB wrote: »

A Question:

Supposing we win the FA Cup:

When people look back on this season in ten years time, will they think Liverpool or Arsenal had the more successful season?

Depends really on how the next ten years go. If the champions league continues to grow in importance for both club and fans, well then Aresnal will be seen to had the better year because the longer your out of the champions league the harder it is to get back in.
People could look back and think if only we had of concentrated solely on fourth and not the cups because the absence next year could have a major knock on effect, resulting in us becoming more and more adrift.

Personally right now I think if we win the cup it would have been a good year. Very enjoyable. But next fourth is a minimum and if it's not looking likely by Xmas Kenny would have to go. Like or loath it, the euro cup is the yard stick for success now.
Any year we are out of it makes it harder to compete but if we win cups in those years, well great but we need to be working towards getting back in.

spockety · 14-04-2012 9:25pm

djPSB wrote: »

A Question:

Supposing we win the FA Cup:

When people look back on this season in ten years time, will they think Liverpool or Arsenal had the more successful season?

Being the misty eyed sentimental idiots that we are, we will reminisce about the time a club legend came back in our darkest hour and grabbed us two more trophies before being chased into the night by a rowdy mob.

After another five years without the league, we will be openly questioning what might have been if we had just given Kenny the chance. "just another season or two even. Sigh."

If we win the fa cup under Kenny it will go down as a legendary season or episode in the clubs' history. Another " moment that shook the kop".

Simple as that.

DB10 · 14-04-2012 9:28pm

djPSB wrote: »

A Question:

Supposing we win the FA Cup:

When people look back on this season in ten years time, will they think Liverpool or Arsenal had the more successful season?

Liverpool for me if they won the FA Cup.

Still think you would have to say Arsenal would be a better side than Liverpool going on the league though.

3rd and 4th aren't trophies, but the CC on its own for me wouldn't be good enough. CC and FA Cup is a different story however.

djPSB · 14-04-2012 9:29pm

OwaynOTT wrote: »

Depends really on how the next ten years go. If the champions league continues to grow in importance for both club and fans, well then Aresnal will be seen to had the better year because the longer your out of the champions league the harder it is to get back in.
People could look back and think if only we had of concentrated solely on fourth and not the cups because the absence next year could have a major knock on effect, resulting in us becoming more and more adrift.

Personally right now I think if we win the cup it would have been a good year. Very enjoyable. But next fourth is a minimum and if it's not looking likely by Xmas Kenny would have to go. Like or loath it, the euro cup is the yard stick for success now.
Any year we are out of it makes it harder to compete but if we win cups in those years, well great but we need to be working towards getting back in.

Okay, but Arsenal have qualified for the Champions League for the previous 14 seasons yet haven't won a trophy in 7 years.

So if people look back and see we have won both cups, does that mean our season was more successful than Arsenals?
*If we win the FA cup that is

spockety · 14-04-2012 9:33pm

djPSB wrote: »

Okay, but Arsenal have qualified for the Champions League for the previous 14 seasons yet haven't won a trophy in 7 years.

So if people look back and see we have won both cups, does that mean our season was more successful than Arsenals?
*If we win the FA cup that is

Liverpool fans will look back and say yes.

Everyone else will say no.

But thankfully we dont give a toss what other people think, do we?

gernon · 14-04-2012 9:34pm

Not sure if this has been already posted
http://www.independent.ie/breaking-news/sport/dalglish-regrets-handling-of-suarez-saga-3081086.html

Gbear · 14-04-2012 9:40pm

Andy Carroll wrote: »

Unfortunately the manager is overly sentimental like yourself and it will continue to cost us should it continue.

What evidence is there to suggest that?

Enrique's been poor lately, they were a danger in the air - I wouldn't necessarily agree with the choice to have Carra in but to suggest it was down to sentimentality, when Kenny was fairly happy to axe Carra when it was clear that Agger and Skrtel were our best CB pairing earlier in the season, is silly to me.

billymitchell wrote: »

We basically need a Xabi Alonso/Scott Parker type player over the summer.
Who fits that bill and is available is another story.

Are you saying that we need 2 players, a hybrid of the 2 or are you saying that Xabi and Parker play similar roles?

Anywho. Spearing is and always will be a squad player. He's always going to be cheap wage-wise, he'll always give his all, I reckon he'll be happy to stay at liverpool in a squad role permanently and he's actually reasonably good. You couldn't honestly say he's a liability.

We need a new midfielder regardless but having a midfield of Henderson, Shelvey, Gerrard, Spearing, Lucas + 1 new quality fella is actually about as good in terms of strength in depth that a team without infinite money is able to have.

djPSB · 14-04-2012 9:40pm

spockety wrote: »

Liverpool fans will look back and say yes.

Everyone else will say no.

But thankfully we dont give a toss what other people think, do we?

I am just thinking that when you consider the money that teams like City have spent, yet only have an FA Cup to show for it, then maybe Kenny isn't doing such a bad job as people make out.

OwaynOTT · 14-04-2012 9:42pm

djPSB wrote: »

Okay, but Arsenal have qualified for the Champions League for the previous 14 seasons yet haven't won a trophy in 7 years.

So if people look back and see we have won both cups, does that mean our season was more successful than Arsenals?
*If we win the FA cup that is

Right now if we win both cups, I would argue our year has been more successful in the here and now.
But
In the long term it might not be perceived as just a great year if we fail to attract any top talent in the summer and miss out again next year in the hunt for at least fourth because we kept Kenny on as he won two cups, that are becoming less and less meaningful. The longer we are out the harder it will be to compete without a sugar daddy owner and I don't want that for Liverpool.

The heart says yes brilliant year for the here and now but the head says we need to follow this up with a good league performance next year.

If we look back in ten years and we are mid-table and Aresnal are still at the top end and possibly winning leagues due to the lucrative benefits that champions league brings, will then this year will not look as good.

However frackin delighted we won and we be a bag of nerves on cup final day but hope we can sort league next year.

LimGal · 14-04-2012 9:45pm

djPSB wrote: »

It's strange because the analysts were raving about how good Jelavic was in the first half yet he contributed fack all to the game apart from the goal. Fair enough, it was a very good finish.

On the other hand Carroll contributed alot with knock downs and lay offs but was slated by Souness and likes and they said he should have been subbed at half time.

Also, Suarez was quite poor in the first half until he burst into life in the second half. He wasn't reading Carroll's knock downs at all early on and always seemed to be caught off side.

If Carroll can improve his finishing a bit, then he will be able to contribute alot to Liverpool over the next few years. It is not surprising either that he is hitting his best spell of form after getting a decent run of games back to back.

Its not strange at all mate because Carroll has become a very easy target for a lot of sub-standard pundits and fans alike.Souness today in particular was bang out of order with how he said Carroll was playing and Im just glad he made him eat his words with the winner for the second time within a week.

I doubt Kenny will be sending him a xmas card either:pac:

OwaynOTT · 14-04-2012 9:46pm

djPSB wrote: »

I am just thinking that when you consider the money that teams like City have spent, yet only have an FA Cup to show for it, then maybe Kenny isn't doing such a bad job as people make out.

We have spent a bit as well though. The winner scorer today cost a few pounds.

Bobeagleburger · 14-04-2012 9:48pm

In 10 years time a team who won 2 trophies would be remembered as having a better season that 3rd or 4th in the league, hands down.

Who remembers who came 3rd 7,8,9 years ago? Not many. Plenty would remember who won the trophies though.

The CL is the pinnacle of club football and the cash involved means just qualifying is seen as an achievement for some clubs. I'd love to see us,when we do eventually qualify, to do so with a decent settled team not there to make up the numbers, which is unlikely anyway at our club anyway.

It's nice in our poor season to pick up silverware and are a game away from more.....

Sappy404 · 14-04-2012 9:54pm

OwaynOTT wrote: »

We have spent a bit as well though. The winner scorer today cost a few pounds.

Oh yeah? How much did he cost?

OwaynOTT · 14-04-2012 9:56pm

rarnes1 wrote: »

In 10 years time a team who won 2 trophies would be remembered as having a better season that 3rd or 4th in the league, hands down.

Who remembers who came 3rd 7,8,9 years ago? Not many. Plenty would remember who won the trophies though.

The CL is the pinnacle of club football and the cash involved means just qualifying is seen as an achievement for some clubs. I'd love to see us,when we do eventually qualify, to do so with a decent settled team not there to make up the numbers, which is unlikely anyway at our club anyway.

It's nice in our poor season to pick up silverware and are a game away from more.....

Ten years ago the FA cup meant a lot more, ten years before even more so and before that it was the cup to win.
Right now it's a successful season but if feelings towards the cup continue on the current trend in ten years it might not be seen as successful.

LimGal · 14-04-2012 9:56pm

Sappy404 wrote: »

Oh yeah? How much did he cost?

Chelsea bought him for us as a present.........

doc_17 · 14-04-2012 9:57pm

Good win today. And we did it with Kuyt, Bellamy, Maxi and Enrique on the bench. Adam and Lucas to come back as well. We have a decent squad and with one or two sales and a couple of top class players I reckon we might make the top 4 next season. But well done to all today.

I feel sorry for everton and would love to see them winning something. The way that minutes silence was observed was wonderful. I always think it's classier than a minutes applause. Pity though they didn't throw Gary Abblet's name in there too. Or maybe they did and I didn't hear it.

OwaynOTT · 14-04-2012 9:59pm

Sappy404 wrote: »

Oh yeah? How much did he cost?

Us? Nothing. Chelsea though that's a different story, they paid for him. :P

LimGal · 14-04-2012 10:01pm

OwaynOTT wrote: »

Us? Nothing. Chelsea though that's a different story, they paid for him. :P

So funny he posted it twice:p

OwaynOTT · 14-04-2012 10:06pm

LimGal wrote: »

So funny he posted it twice:p

Got beaten to the punch as well!

Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 11/12 (End of March 2012 onwards)

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