Gardai seizing cars

jezzer · 30-10-2014 1:37pm

Zambia wrote: »

The police here (Vic) dont take cars here for lack of tax/rego.

They do impound cars for Doughnuts and repeated driving whilst Disqualified/suspended/unlicenced offences.

If your registration is out of date and you are caught you are fined roughly the cost of registration for a year on the spot.

If you are over three months out of registration the police retrieve the plates of the vehicle and leave the owner plateless on the side of the road.

A lot less bother than taking a car.

A far more sensible approach, where is this, Australia?

jezzer · 30-10-2014 1:41pm

i know, obviously, people have no option but to pay car tax, but for a variety of reasons some people are in financial difficulty and cant afford tax at certain points but may need the car to get to work etc, with the new system in place they have to back tax anyway so its not like they can get away without paying plus they get a fine, i just think leaving someone on the side of the road is a low act, needless, pointless, potentially dangerous and stupid, a bit more cop on should be applied as in the example above from Australia.

Zambia · 30-10-2014 2:15pm

jezzer wrote: »

i know, obviously, people have no option but to pay car tax, but for a variety of reasons some people are in financial difficulty and cant afford tax at certain points but may need the car to get to work etc, with the new system in place they have to back tax anyway so its not like they can get away without paying plus they get a fine, i just think leaving someone on the side of the road is a low act, needless, pointless, potentially dangerous and stupid, a bit more cop on should be applied as in the example above from Australia.

In fairness to the irish legislation the Victorian (Australian) legislation and practice does the same thing if your financial shy.

Your left at the side of the road with your car either with or without plates. Now if you have plates and cash you can use your smartphone to pay your registration.

If you have no cash you are fined the cost of the registration you still cant pay the registration and the temptation to risk driving again is overwhelming. You could turn the corner and be down another 700 bucks.

And once you get a few fines the sheriff's operate check points, if you are carrying a few fines in the end you lose your car as seen below.

jezzer · 31-10-2014 10:31am

very true but at least your life is not put at risk by being left to walk on a busy road

source · 31-10-2014 10:55am

jezzer wrote: »

very true but at least your life is not put at risk by being left to walk on a busy road

But it is, with the Victorian system when they take your plates you're not permitted to drive the car, so you have to leave the car there and arrange another way home.

Zambia · 31-10-2014 11:15am

source wrote: »

But it is, with the Victorian system when they take your plates you're not permitted to drive the car, so you have to leave the car there and arrange another way home.

Pretty much.

Whosthis · 31-10-2014 11:33am

tayto lover wrote: »

OK but the question is - can they pick up someone thumbing on the road if they think they are in danger?

Yes, they can, or at least they have. Had a breakdown on a motorway about a year ago, no phone with me so couldn't call the breakdown service or a taxi. It was about 3AM on a midweek misty night. Figured there was nothing I could do but start walking and pray a taxi passed but just as I was getting out of the car a squad car pulled in behind me. They asked what the story was and dropped me straight to my door, about ten miles away.

plodder · 31-10-2014 12:26pm

billie1b wrote: »

Dont believe it if you don't want, I wont lose sleep over it but I know it happened and my sister knows it happened as she was left standing in the pissings of rain while waiting on a lift. As I said the car was given back to her an hour later with a sorry and no cost attached.

if it's true, I'd make a complaint to GSOC. My niece had her car taken over an out of date NCT (incidentally in the same area). So, it wouldn't surprise me.

Taking someone's car and leaving them at the side of the road is shockingly heavy-handed and only should be contemplated if the alternative penalties - fines, points etc are not appropriate imho.

LordNorbury · 31-10-2014 12:33pm

There is actually a small industry in Ireland in 200-400 Euro cars, it's like a disposable car, so if you drive into a checkpoint or get pulled over, the car is taken off you, apart from a court visit or whatever (which is uncommon enough it would seem!), then that is the sum of your loss!

I know one guy who is engaged a bit in this end of things, obviously not to be condoned but just mentioning that it is going on out there!

jezzer · 31-10-2014 6:00pm

LordNorbury wrote: »

There is actually a small industry in Ireland in 200-400 Euro cars, it's like a disposable car, so if you drive into a checkpoint or get pulled over, the car is taken off you, apart from a court visit or whatever (which is uncommon enough it would seem!), then that is the sum of your loss!

I know one guy who is engaged a bit in this end of things, obviously not to be condoned but just mentioning that it is going on out there!

so there is a guy selling cars for 200 euro and if the cops take it off you, thats it, you just let them keep it? presumably the driver is insured? obviously no nct or tax? i wouldnt condone that sort of thing but if it is a case where people need to get to work and cant afford anything else....however the main point being that leaving someone at the side of the road is very dangerous and heavy handed, surely the guards are there to protect people? in my opinion a non taxed car is less of a danger than leaving someone on the side of the road in the dark, its just not on, i mean what if someone had a very genuine reason for not having car tax displayed and the guards seized the car and they were left stranded and felt unsafe and had a near miss maybe, surely there would be a case there for the garda ombudsman??

Fred Swanson · 31-10-2014 8:59pm

This post has been deleted.

Lmklad · 01-11-2014 4:43pm

plodder wrote: »

if it's true, I'd make a complaint to GSOC. My niece had her car taken over an out of date NCT (incidentally in the same area). So, it wouldn't surprise me.

Here's a novel idea, instead of wasting GSOCs time take responsibility for your own car and make sure it's roadworthy.

plodder · 01-11-2014 5:09pm

Lmklad wrote: »

Here's a novel idea, instead of wasting GSOCs time take responsibility for your own car and make sure it's roadworthy.

It'll hardly waste that much of their time.

Either they are allowed to seize someone's car because the NCT is out of date a few weeks (when it takes over two months to get a test), or if a fog-light is stuck on .... or it isn't allowed.

Little CuChulainn · 01-11-2014 5:20pm

plodder wrote: »

It'll hardly waste that much of their time.

Either they are allowed to seize someone's car because the NCT is out of date a few weeks (when it takes over two months to get a test), or if a fog-light is stuck on .... or it isn't allowed.

A car can be seized if the NCT is out.

greasepalm · 01-11-2014 5:27pm

wonder if garda cars carry a roll of duck tape,easy fix stick over fog lamp until repaired and would let car be safe in the meantime,cant expect them to remove bulbs!

plodder · 01-11-2014 5:29pm

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

A car can be seized if the NCT is out.

Not according to the faq on garda.ie though I'd accept its hardly an authoritative reference for law.

Little CuChulainn · 01-11-2014 5:34pm

plodder wrote: »

Not according to the faq on garda.ie though I'd accept its hardly an authoritative reference for law.

http://www.garda.ie/FAQ/Default.aspx?FAQCategory=14#FAQ1719

My NCT has expired. Can I drive on the roads?

Section 41 of the Road Traffic Act 1994 as amended by Section 19 Road Traffic Act 2006 – a member of An Garda Síochána may seize a vehicle being used in a public place without proof of passing a road worthiness test in accordance with Council Directive 96/96/EC (O.J. No. L46 17.02.97, P1) of the 20th December 1996 which for the time being in force in respect of the vehicle.

plodder · 01-11-2014 5:43pm

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

http://www.garda.ie/FAQ/Default.aspx?FAQCategory=14#FAQ1719

Ah fair enough. I googled it and landed on a different answer which listed some criteria but not that one.

So its legal, but it shouldn't be in my opinion unless the vehicle is obviously a serious danger. Penalty points and a fine are more appropriate and less heavy handed

Marcusm · 01-11-2014 5:47pm

plodder wrote: »

Ah fair enough. I googled it and landed on a different answer which listed some criteria but not that one.

So its legal, but it shouldn't be in my opinion unless the vehicle is obviously a serious danger. Penalty points and a fine are more appropriate and less heavy handed

It's so heavy handed as how could a driver be expected to know when they need to NCT a vehicle, it's not as if it was written on a piece of paper they need to pass each time they drive. Failure to make a booking early enough or to try to find a cancellation is hardly an excuse.

plodder · 01-11-2014 5:54pm

I guess we could apply the same reasoning to a wider range of driving offenses. Breaking red lights for instance. That's dangerous. Why not seize the vehicle in that case too? You'd think twice before doing it again.

Little CuChulainn · 01-11-2014 5:56pm

plodder wrote: »

I guess we could apply the same reasoning to a wider range of driving offenses. Breaking red lights for instance. That's dangerous. Why not seize the vehicle in that case too? You'd think twice before doing it again.

Because it's a single offence that ends. Driving without NCT or insurance is continuous. You can be sure if you drive through every red light you will have to deal with more than your car being seized.

donvito99 · 01-11-2014 5:58pm

plodder wrote: »

I guess we could apply the same reasoning to a wider range of driving offenses. Breaking red lights for instance. That's dangerous. Why not seize the vehicle in that case too? You'd think twice before doing it again.

But you don't know months in advance that you're going to break a red light...

Marcusm · 01-11-2014 6:02pm

plodder wrote: »

I guess we could apply the same reasoning to a wider range of driving offenses. Breaking red lights for instance. That's dangerous. Why not seize the vehicle in that case too? You'd think twice before doing it again.

Except that isn't a specified penalty for breaking a red light. I expect that the much vaunted Garda "discretion" is applied in most cases and an absence of an NCT doesn't lead to a seizure. I'd find it hard to challenge it if my only defence was I didn't know.

plodder · 01-11-2014 6:07pm

donvito99 wrote: »

But you don't know months in advance that you're going to break a red light...

I don't see the relevance frankly. Even still as I said the nct system is farcical that you have to wait two months for a test and then it might fail need some work etc. Their website doesn't make it clear that cancellations are possible.

Again also the issue is the appropriateness of seizure not whether it should be an offence at all

plodder · 01-11-2014 6:12pm

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

Because it's a single offence that ends. Driving without NCT or insurance is continuous. You can be sure if you drive through every red light you will have to deal with more than your car being seized.

Again the continuous nature of the offence might be an aggravating factor if you could get an nct in the morning. But you cant

Little CuChulainn · 01-11-2014 6:14pm

plodder wrote: »

Again the continuous nature of the offence might be an aggravating factor if you could get an nct in the morning. But you cant

If you have a NCT booking confirmation they won't seize your car unless there's some extenuating circumstance such as an evident fault or an issue with the driver.

ted1 · 01-11-2014 6:15pm

jezzer wrote: »

I see where the gardai are seizing cars on the side of the road for no tax etc, do they just leave you to walk or whats the situation? what if you had an accident because of this, e.g. they seize your car on the side of the road and its dark and you have to walk on the road with no reflective gear, surely this is a danger?

Just pay your Tax like everbofy else.

ted1 · 01-11-2014 6:21pm

jezzer wrote: »

i know, obviously, people have no option but to pay car tax, but for a variety of reasons some people are in financial difficulty and cant afford tax at certain points but may need the car to get to work etc, with the new system in place they have to back tax anyway so its not like they can get away without paying plus they get a fine, i just think leaving someone on the side of the road is a low act, needless, pointless, potentially dangerous and stupid, a bit more cop on should be applied as in the example above from Australia.

But people never tax their car so they never get to pay the back tax.
If people can afford petrol they can afford TAX

ted1 · 01-11-2014 6:23pm

plodder wrote: »

if it's true, I'd make a complaint to GSOC. My niece had her car taken over an out of date NCT (incidentally in the same area). So, it wouldn't surprise me.

Taking someone's car and leaving them at the side of the road is shockingly heavy-handed and only should be contemplated if the alternative penalties - fines, points etc are not appropriate imho.

No NCT is quite a series offence, rather than getting upset at her being punished how about getting upset at her for not having a NCT .

plodder · 01-11-2014 6:42pm

ted1 wrote: »

No NCT is quite a series offence, rather than getting upset at her being punished how about getting upset at her for not having a NCT .

rather than getting upset at my post, why don't you read it again.

Little CuChulainn wrote:

If you have a NCT booking confirmation they won't seize your car unless there's some extenuating circumstance such as an evident fault or an issue with the driver.

That's fair enough. I think they should be made publish policies like that, as it's the state's fault that the NCT system is so crap. Might force them to do something about it.

Little CuChulainn · 01-11-2014 6:47pm

plodder wrote: »

rather than getting upset at my post, why don't you read it again.

That's fair enough. I think they should be made publish policies like that, as it's the state's fault that the NCT system is so crap. Might force them to do something about it.

They can't. Discretion is a dirty word these days. It tends to be equated to corruption by vocal people and the media.

plodder · 01-11-2014 6:51pm

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

They can't. Discretion is a dirty word these days. It tends to be equated to corruption by vocal people and the media.

I don't see why. It would be seen as reducing discretion and increasing certainty for people who find themselves in this situation.

Zambia · 02-11-2014 2:59am

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

They can't. Discretion is a dirty word these days. It tends to be equated to corruption by vocal people and the media.

Ireland like most states can't afford to abolish discretion for minor offences. It's an integral part of the justice system.

Lmklad · 03-11-2014 12:20am

FYI, you can book an nct test up to 3 months in advance of when it is due, ahead of time and the new date will be taken from the original expiry, ie you won't lose any of the extra 3months

jezzer · 03-11-2014 10:04am

it all comes down to money at the end of the day, very little to do with road safety, more to do with revenue collecting

Yorker · 03-11-2014 11:37am

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

It just has to be in connection with the job.

and how is a hitchhiker in connection with the job

Little CuChulainn · 03-11-2014 11:45am

Yorker wrote: »

and how is a hitchhiker in connection with the job

Depends on where he is hitchhiking I suppose.

Rightwing · 03-11-2014 11:47am

You are not allowed walk on a motorway, yet they'll a car off you? Lovely.

Little CuChulainn · 03-11-2014 12:06pm

Rightwing wrote: »

You are not allowed walk on a motorway, yet they'll a car off you? Lovely.

And give you a lift off the motorway.

Gardai seizing cars

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