Poor Greyhounds - Again

Vel · 30-10-2014 2:35pm #1

Can they ever catch a break? In my opinion, they are the most marginalised, misunderstood and abused breed in Ireland :mad:

http://www.thejournal.ie/greyhounds-irish-ferries-1752468-Oct2014/

DBB · 30-10-2014 6:12pm

Jesus swept

Those poor dogs.
The only possible silver lining is that Bord na gCon can trace these dogs thanks to their DNA profiling, and can find the breeder and hopefully, the chain each dog followed to eventually end up on that van.
What they will do with that information, who knows, as although I have confidence that B na gC do investigate cases like this, we never actually hear what come of them. As a State funded body, we really should be insisting that such investigations are made public once they're concluded.
I think greyhounds are joined by collies as being the most poorly treated, poorly regarded breeds in this country.

Vel · 30-10-2014 7:08pm

DBB wrote: »

Jesus swept
Those poor dogs.
The only possible silver lining is that Bord na gCon can trace these dogs thanks to their DNA profiling, and can find the breeder and hopefully, the chain each dog followed to eventually end up on that van.
What they will do with that information, who knows, as although I have confidence that B na gC do investigate cases like this, we never actually hear what come of them. As a State funded body, we really should be insisting that such investigations are made public once they're concluded.
I think greyhounds are joined by collies as being the most poorly treated, poorly regarded breeds in this country.

Oh yes, the poor collies, and lurchers too if they were a breed!

I feel an FOI in my future!!!!:D

From my experience with BnaC, they don't appear to have much desire to root out the likes of these breeders from the industry, which doesn't make sense to me as purely from a pr point of view it would be helpful for them.

I am constantly told that it is just a small minority who treat their dogs badly yet I never see the majority coming together and speaking out against the 'bad apples'. There are certainly some lone voices within the industry who aren't happy with a lot of what goes on but they still mix with these people on a regular basis at the tracks etc. see them with their dogs, see them take home their dogs to god knows what condition, see them leave with a losing dog knowing its heading to the pound or a one way trip to the vet the next day. I just don't know how they can reconcile themselves with that situation.

Vel · 30-10-2014 7:11pm

Also to add that these greyhounds were destined for Spain, who are once again taking Irish greyhound. Some may remember the horror that was revealed a few years back about the fate of racing greyhounds in Spain. Anyone interested in how sighthounds are treated in Spain should google about 'galgo rescue' It's not for the faint hearted. What goes on here is mild compared to what happens to these dogs in Spain

muddypaws · 30-10-2014 8:14pm

Vel wrote: »

I am constantly told that it is just a small minority who treat their dogs badly yet I never see the majority coming together and speaking out against the 'bad apples'. There are certainly some lone voices within the industry who aren't happy with a lot of what goes on but they still mix with these people on a regular basis at the tracks etc. see them with their dogs, see them take home their dogs to god knows what condition, see them leave with a losing dog knowing its heading to the pound or a one way trip to the vet the next day. I just don't know how they can reconcile themselves with that situation.

Its interesting you say that, I am involved in a different dog sport, but don't take part in any events organised by an organisation who claim to be the 'official Irish' representatives. Whilst there is no money involved in my sport, so there isn't the same incentives if you can use that term, winning is still the be all and end all to some, and if a dog isn't fast enough, it will be traded in for a faster one. I have also dealt with some awful cases of cruelty in my ex-rescue capacity, and so know things about some of these people that make me not want to be anywhere near them. I was slated as being 'political' for taking the stance I do, its all about the dogs was the mantra spouted at me. But to me, it is about ALL the dogs, not just my own, so I can't support people whose ethics I disagree with. But, as I say, have had to deal with a lot of vitriol because of it, maybe not everybody can deal with it, and so don't stand up for what they believe.

Hillybilly4 · 30-10-2014 9:27pm

From GRAI:
"The following press release was issued to media contacts around Ireland yesterday on behalf of GRAI to inform them of the incident involving the death of 11 Irish greyhounds on a ferry to France on Monday:
Yesterday I was made aware via a contact in France of the death last weekend of eleven Irish racing greyhounds en route to Spain via France on the Irish Ferries vessel "The Oscar Wilde". To date, this event has not been reported in any Irish newspaper although it has been covered in the French press. http://www.tendanceouest.com/actualite-82748-11-chiens-retr…;
The ferry docked at Cherbourg on the afternoon of Monday October 27th and the dogs were found to have asphyxiated in a transport van due to being packed too tightly into crates. There were 2 dogs per crate, in clear violation of the Welfare of Greyhounds Bill 2011 and of Council Regulation (EC) No 1/2005 on the protection of animals during transport. The dogs were registered racing dogs and were bound for Spain where they were to be used for breeding with Spanish Galgos.
Anybody who is familiar with the greyhound racing industry in Ireland will be well aware of the unfortunate fate of Irish greyhounds who are sent there for the largely unregulated hunting industry. The galgueros (greyhound hunters) are notorious for their maltreatment of these animals who are regularly hung from trees at the end of the season.
The 11 dogs who died on Monday had their paperwork processed and vaccinations completed as per requirements. The veterinary surgery which signed off on this was Southview Veterinary Clinic, Clonmel, Co. Tipperary. It appears that procedure was followed up until this point. The discovery of the dead animals was made by the Gendarmes Maritime of Cherbourg SPPP [maritime and port surveillance platoon] and the Spanish driver of the van was held for questioning but later released. The cause of death was determined as asphyxiation by a French vet at Cherbourg but I have not been able to find out his or her name.
I have however managed to find out that the transport was arranged by Tipperary racing breeder and trainer Gil Liddle, a prominent member of the racing community.
It's crucial that a proper investigation take place to ascertain the exact circumstances of the death of these greyhounds and the reasons why it was possible for the transporter to so flagrantly transgress legislation and guidelines relating to their transport. All of the dogs were registered with the IGB so they should also be obliged to release information relating to the registered owners of these dogs.
At a time when the IBG are promoting a welfare conscious image and marketing Christmas parties, questions need to be answered relating to the welfare of dogs who sent abroad.
I have been told by contacts in Spain that Irish greyhounds are being purchased out there for as little as €100 and crudely disposed of once they are no longer useful for breeding or hunting. The perceived low monetary value of these dogs leads in turn to the cost-cutting methods resorted to by the transporter this weekend who was most likely overloading his vehicle in an effort to save money. A friend has just sent me on a quote from Gil on 'Greyhound Data', complaining about the difficulties of making money in the greyhound business so it seems likely this disaster was the result of cost-cutting measures on his part.
Asphyxiation over the course of a 18 hour journey is an appalling way to die and these animals will have really suffered at the end. I hope that this horrible occurrence gets some media attention and that you might see fit to write about it for the Examiner.
I would be grateful if you would cover this story. Please let me know if I can be of any assistance.

Link: http://grai.ie/2014/10/30/press-release-ferry-greyhound-tragedy/

Vel · 30-10-2014 9:41pm

muddypaws wrote: »

But, as I say, have had to deal with a lot of vitriol because of it, maybe not everybody can deal with it, and so don't stand up for what they believe.

I would be hard to be a lone voice in this kind of situation I am sure. But in the case of the greyhounds, I do wonder though why this so called small minority aren't driven from the tracks by the good caring majority!!! I have never seen the likes of the Greyhound Breeders and Owners Association take a public stand. This topic has garnered only 40 comments but has been viewed over 4,000 times on a thread on the Greyhound Data Forum which is used by those in the industry. Quite a few of those commenting are rescue people with a few racing people, most of whom I have seen speak out before. There should be outrage!

For whatever reason people will just not come together within this grotty industry and speak out.

muddypaws · 30-10-2014 10:14pm

Vel wrote: »

I would be hard to be a lone voice in this kind of situation I am sure. But in the case of the greyhounds, I do wonder though why this so called small minority aren't driven from the tracks by the good caring majority!!! I have never seen the likes of the Greyhound Breeders and Owners Association take a public stand. This topic has garnered only 40 comments but has been viewed over 4,000 times on a thread on the Greyhound Data Forum which is used by those in the industry. Quite a few of those commenting are rescue people with a few racing people, most of whom I have seen speak out before. There should be outrage!

For whatever reason people will just not come together within this grotty industry and speak out.

I totally agree with you, I don't know what the answer is. I'd love to think it would be a domino effect, once one took a stand, another would follow, and another, and another. Hopefully this story will also take hold of the public imagination, and wake people up to the reality of how these dogs are treated. It would be great if change could come out of such a tragedy.

Hillybilly4 · 30-10-2014 10:27pm

I've posted this over in the Greyhound Racing forum.
I lived in Spain for a decade and the witnessed at first hand the abuse dealt out to animals in general and to greyhounds in particular - it was/is truly sickening. I still have friends who are running dog sanctuaries in Spain and greyhounds make up the majority of their rescues.
How a greyhound breeder in Ireland can sell his dogs to Spain with a clear conscience is beyond me. Do they really have no idea of the "life" that their once supposedly precious dogs are going to lead once they're in a galguero's hands?
Preaching to the converted in this particular forum I know but mistreatment of animals makes my blood boil. Hopefully there'll be a response over in Greyhound Racing...

sillysmiles · 31-10-2014 1:15am

OK I started reading about Galgos-not something to do before bedtime! One of the rescue sites say that almost traditionally they are hung from the pine trees at the end of the hunting season-my question is why? What's the logic behind the mass cull? And why hanging?

Pretzill · 31-10-2014 2:02am

You know when I read this story first I thought why carry so many dogs in a van on such a long ferry ride - and also how could this have happened. I travelled on this sailing a week before, it isn't has never been a 14 hour voyage - 17 hours at best and this time of the year uncomfortable enough when you have a cabin above the waterline.

Last week I saw a dog in the car in front of us - a lovely guy - he was in his bed in the boot of the car and I thought I hope they don't leave him there for the entire journey. The boat is always quite warm. I wouldn't leave my dogs in the car unattended for more than twenty minutes - with the window cracked and wouldn't leave them in the car at all in the summer.

I have often wanted to take my dogs with me to France, but this is the thing that makes me leave them in kennels here - I don't like the look of the kennels on the ship and the voyage is way too long to leave them in that area - for me - So how can a van load of caged greyhounds go unnoticed before they board the ship and if you have to ship them why not take the kennelling option? (at least the poor dogs would have had air)

Something was remiss here, regardless of what life these dogs were travelling too...which reading above sound deplorable, they should never have been let on board in an 'unregulated' state.

You wouldn't be able to put sock loads of terrapins in your luggage on a plane - (I know not a good analogy but the outcome is equally as bad) - They really need to tighten regulations at the ports. Even a simple box to click when booking passage - "travelling with animals - enter passport - enter amount - book kennels"

This story sickened me. BTW my return journey last week was 24 hours from Cherbourg to Rosslare - I would be driven mad with worry if I had brought my dogs on that voyage.

Vel · 31-10-2014 10:33am

Pretzill wrote: »

I travelled on this sailing a week before, it isn't has never been a 14 hour voyage - 17 hours at best

This story sickened me. BTW my return journey last week was 24 hours from Cherbourg to Rosslare - I would be driven mad with worry if I had brought my dogs on that voyage.

And added to this that these dogs were bought at the sales in Tipperary, loaded on there and the vans head straight to the ferry. I imagine cars/vans have to arrive a couple of hours before the sailing departs so even if they had survived the journey, just imagine how awful it would have been to be packed in like that for that number of hours. Once those dogs are packed into a transit van, I very much doubt the driver is going to start letting them out at Cherbourg for walkies around the port before the onward journey to Spain.

Apparently another Spanish van left the same sale with 9 dogs who are so far unaccounted for.

And this is a regular thing - van loads of dogs bought at the sales here destined for Spain. Who knows how many have died in transit without anyone finding out. It wouldn't be a particularly good business model to be coming over here and buying a load of dogs which then die before they reach their end destination but when you can buy them as cheapily as €100 each I'm sure they factor in that a few might not make it if it means they can cut costs on providing adequate transport.

Seriously, the only saving grace for me in this, for the dogs and it sounds awful, is that they didn't end up living a hellish short life in Spain before being killed or dumped anyway.

Vel · 31-10-2014 10:42am

sillysmiles wrote: »

OK I started reading about Galgos-not something to do before bedtime! One of the rescue sites say that almost traditionally they are hung from the pine trees at the end of the hunting season-my question is why? What's the logic behind the mass cull? And why hanging?

It's macho hunting culture with a particularly cruel and sadistic element to it. It's almost like tradition now for some of them to dispose of their dogs at the end of the hunting season in this way. They may keep some on for next year, but why would they continue to feed and house dogs outside of the season when they can just get new ones next year. They are literally treated like rubbish to be discarded after use, either killed for kicks or turfed out to roam the countryside.

I read one haunting account, and I know that you can't believe everything you read but given the things that they actually do to the dogs over there I do believe it, that one hunter explained to a rescue group that they would hang their dogs together at the end of a season taking bets on whose dog would last the longest hanging before dying.

Another favourite is to dump them down wells while they are still alive.

I'm big into animal welfare, not so much the militant animal rights groups and I do know that stories get concocted and blown out of proportion but I truely believe the stories about what happens to galgos in Spain.

There have been reported and unreported incidents of lurchers being hung in Ireland too. Two lurchers found hanging from a tree in Tymon park a number of years ago and a young lurcher hung by his owner in Mayo a couple of months ago. I have also heard of some unreported cases from people involved in rescue here.

Hillybilly4 · 31-10-2014 10:50am

sillysmiles wrote: »

OK I started reading about Galgos-not something to do before bedtime! One of the rescue sites say that almost traditionally they are hung from the pine trees at the end of the hunting season-my question is why? What's the logic behind the mass cull? And why hanging?

If you've the stomach, have a read of this:

http://www.greyhoundsinneed.co.uk/natureofproblem/natureofproblemFrame.htm?http&&&www.greyhoundsinneed.co.uk/natureofproblem/american_chapter1999.htm

ShaShaBear · 31-10-2014 1:05pm

Slight derail but still on the topic of greyhounds - I've just heard that UCD purchased a large amount of live greyhounds which were killed on the premises to be used for veterinary anatomy training?
Honestly I'm hoping it's a wild exaggeration as surely with the amount of dogs being put to sleep every day in pounds in Dublin alone, they would be able to get their hands on a wide variety of cadavers for their students without ending a dog's life?

Vel · 31-10-2014 3:59pm

ShaShaBear wrote: »

Slight derail but still on the topic of greyhounds - I've just heard that UCD purchased a large amount of live greyhounds which were killed on the premises to be used for veterinary anatomy training?
Honestly I'm hoping it's a wild exaggeration as surely with the amount of dogs being put to sleep every day in pounds in Dublin alone, they would be able to get their hands on a wide variety of cadavers for their students without ending a dog's life?

I do know that the vet students practice on dead greyhounds but I wasn't aware they were purchasing them to kill them for this reason. I really hope that's not true

They certainly used to keep greyhounds at the Vet School as blood donors. They would be donated by their trainers once they had finished with them. I don't think they were treated badly but they were living down there in kennels. We actually fostered the last blood donor greyhound they had there and he had lived there for years. He was a very shut down and sad boy.

meathstevie · 01-11-2014 1:38pm

ShaShaBear wrote: »

Slight derail but still on the topic of greyhounds - I've just heard that UCD purchased a large amount of live greyhounds which were killed on the premises to be used for veterinary anatomy training?
Honestly I'm hoping it's a wild exaggeration as surely with the amount of dogs being put to sleep every day in pounds in Dublin alone, they would be able to get their hands on a wide variety of cadavers for their students without ending a dog's life?

Still far better than being hung from a tree somewhere in Spain by some muppet who wants to relive his great great great grand dads exploits during the inquisition.

Emotional points aside, from a scientific point of view there's probably quite some merit in student vets using cadavers of uniform breed and known history and that's probably why former racing greyhounds would be used.

ShaShaBear · 01-11-2014 2:08pm

meathstevie wrote: »

Still far better than being hung from a tree somewhere in Spain by some muppet who wants to relive his great great great grand dads exploits during the inquisition.

Emotional points aside, from a scientific point of view there's probably quite some merit in student vets using cadavers of uniform breed and known history and that's probably why former racing greyhounds would be used.

True, but I would imagine that given the obvious physical difference between greyhounds and most other breeds, that some variety would lend more to their experience? Why buy them in and have them put down when they could just ask for euthanised greyhounds (of which there are many) to be donated to them? It's a curious question.

Poor Greyhounds - Again

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