Should Liberty hall be demolished and be replaced by a monstrosity?

Run_to_da_hills · 29-02-2012 12:24am

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

AFAIK Hawkins House is due for demolition once they secure the replacement

It looks like this building will be here for quite a while.

Where is the department of health doing to come up with the cash for a replacement.?

http://www.streetsbroadandnarrow.com/2011/08/theatre-royalhawkins-house-hawkins.html

delta_bravo · 29-02-2012 12:50am

Hoping that whenever they do demolish Hawkins house that the demolition is a botch job and also takes down Apollo house. Another awful building.

MadsL · 29-02-2012 7:40am

mikemac1 wrote: »

Ireland's largest union, they are not short of money and have their strike fund built up while other unions have mismanged their strike funds and have no reserves

They have so much money they were able to spend over a quarter of a million on this
>copy of the Proclamation <

Took a lot of members subs to buy that document

At least it stayed in the country...

Run_to_da_hills · 29-02-2012 4:45pm

delta_bravo wrote: »

Hoping that whenever they do demolish Hawkins house that the demolition is a botch job and also takes down Apollo house. Another awful building.

If the council replaced the horrible Soviet Union era green cladding on the side of the building and tidied the place up it wouldn't look so bad. It would also save the taxpayer millions on reconstruction costs. .

gigino · 29-02-2012 11:35pm

neris wrote: »

Knock the horrid thing (prefrebly with jack and the other cronies inside)

There could be a huge market selling pieces of concrete from the knocked tower. Look at what happened to the Berlin wall. Millions of souveniers around the world. Lots of people would love souveniers of the actual building the trade union leaders - social partners to the government which wrecked the country during the tiger era - operated from.

Knock it, it gives me shivers every day when I see it.

Toby Take a Bow · 01-03-2012 9:34am

gigino wrote: »

Knock it, it gives me shivers every day when I see it.

You should get that looked at.

Run_to_da_hills · 01-03-2012 1:09pm

gigino wrote: »

Knock it, it gives me shivers every day when I see it.

You should consider wearing blinkers.

Jev/N · 02-03-2012 2:03pm

I enjoyed it when it was like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PFkdo20yYg

Mr Simpson · 03-03-2012 7:20pm

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

AFAIK Hawkins House is due for demolition once they secure the replacement

Shouldn't be too hard considering the amount of empty office space under NAMA in Dublin.

FreudianSlippers · 04-03-2012 10:40am

mmcn90 wrote: »

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

AFAIK Hawkins House is due for demolition once they secure the replacement

Shouldn't be too hard considering the amount of empty office space under NAMA in Dublin.

Replacement building. Plus it's not that easy, one cannot simply walk into an office just because it's in NAMA

Mr Simpson · 04-03-2012 11:50am

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

mmcn90 wrote: »

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

AFAIK Hawkins House is due for demolition once they secure the replacement

Shouldn't be too hard considering the amount of empty office space under NAMA in Dublin.

Replacement building. Plus it's not that easy, one cannot simply walk into an office just because it's in NAMA

True, I was looking at it a bit too simply, but I'm sure there are a few empty office buildings that are up for lease.

Noopti · 05-03-2012 3:14pm

Knock it down and build a proper skyscraper in its place. The sooner we get over this aversion to high rise buildings the better.

Irish and Proud · 06-03-2012 11:33pm

Lapin wrote: »

The current glass was fitted following bomb damage in the early 1970s. The building certainly looked a lot more elegant prior to that.
I'd love to see this appearance reinstated.

That's a hell of a lot better - almost modern by today's standards!

Irish and Proud · 07-03-2012 12:13am

Irish and Proud wrote: »

That's a hell of a lot better - almost modern by today's standards!

I think we should keep Liberty Hall if at all possible - it's an iconic 1960's building that should be restored rather than demolished - there's plenty of space in the docklands for new skyscrapers. Just a note, we have to be very careful not to discard building's just because they were built in the 1960's - after all, that was exactly the mindset then regarding Victorian Buildings - even iconic ones. When the Eiffel Tower was erected in Paris, there were immediate calls for its dismantlement - trying to do just that today might lead to a 2nd French Revolution! About 1960's architecture, I think we should take a rational approach and decide what buildings are worth keeping so that history is not lost. Please don't shoot me when I suggest the following - I would keep:

1) Liberty Hall
A symbol of Ireland's new found confidence during the 1960's - with its 17 storeys, this building is also said to be Ireland's first skyscraper - mind you, I wasn't sure if it did qualify as a skyscraper. However, I think I would have been very proud of it if I was around then.

2) Phibsboro Tower / Shopping Centre
A tiny snippet of the 1960's desire for daily convenience and comfort (even if it's now our idea of same) while at the same time, making a bold visual impact (get rid of the ugly phone masts though) - this school of thought is now what we know as Brutalism. The elevated car-park over the shops along with the office tower above the car-park makes a very complete example of the architecture back then and AFAIK, it still functions.

3) Circular Approach Ramps at T1 Dublin Airport
The approach ramps to then upper car-park of Terminal 1 at Dublin Airport were said to be of Irish Engineering - these structures IMO are genius - the way in which the column and road segments are blended together into a continuous winding upward spiral.

4) Elevated Swimming Pool at Northside Shopping Centre
Imagine, a complete swimming pool with the shear weight of its liquid volume contained on stilts above the heads of shoppers going about their daily business - it sound's like stuff of the future but no, it has been present at the Northside Shopping Centre, Coolock probably since the 1960's - I believe some regulars at the Northside SC were unaware that such a thing ever existed above them.

I'll leave it there...

FreudianSlippers · 07-03-2012 12:48am

Irish and Proud wrote: »

1) Liberty Hall
A symbol of Ireland's new found confidence during the 1960's - with its 17 storeys, this building is also said to be Ireland's first skyscraper - mind you, I wasn't sure if it did qualify as a skyscraper. However, I think I would have been very proud of it if I was around then.

Fine, if Liberty Hall stays and we refuse any "high rise" like the Mater Children's Hospital (:rolleyes:) then we abolish height restrictions in the Docklands and build away.

2) Phibsboro Tower / Shopping Centre
A tiny snippet of the 1960's desire for daily convenience and comfort (even if it's now our idea of same) while at the same time, making a bold visual impact (get rid of the ugly phone masts though) - this school of thought is now what we know as Brutalism. The elevated car-park over the shops along with the office tower above the car-park makes a very complete example of the architecture back then and AFAIK, it still functions.

Disagree, it's wasted space, hideous and non-functional.

3) Circular Approach Ramps at T1 Dublin Airport
The approach ramps to then upper car-park of Terminal 1 at Dublin Airport were said to be of Irish Engineering - these structures IMO are genius - the way in which the column and road segments are blended together into a continuous winding upward spiral.

Agreed.

4) Elevated Swimming Pool at Northside Shopping Centre
Imagine, a complete swimming pool with the shear weight of its liquid volume contained on stilts above the heads of shoppers going about their daily business - it sound's like stuff of the future but no, it has been present at the Northside Shopping Centre, Coolock probably since the 1960's - I believe some regulars at the Northside SC were unaware that such a thing ever existed above them.

Agreed

Judgement Day · 07-03-2012 12:18pm

Irish and Proud wrote: »

That's a hell of a lot better - almost modern by today's standards!

Atrocious then and atrocious now but a nice pic!

Mr Simpson · 16-11-2012 1:25pm

So it looks like the haters have got their way, ABP has refused planning for the new liberty hall.

nomdeboardie · 16-11-2012 1:41pm

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Should Liberty hall be demolished and be replaced by a monstrosity?

Like-for-like, then?

FreudianSlippers · 16-11-2012 1:54pm

I believe this is a huge blow to regeneration of north Dublin. I cannot understand the goal of groups whose sole purpose seems to be the preservation of rotten wasteland over any development that would benefit the area.

Passenger · 16-11-2012 2:43pm

Do ABP expand on the "historical preservation" point? What exactly are they preserving?

Run_to_da_hills · 16-11-2012 6:58pm

Great to see this iconic Dublin sky scraper preserved.

Hopefully it will be restored to its mid 1960's glory.

Next

..........a campaign to preserve Hawkins House. :pac:

Piliger · 16-11-2012 10:09pm

KNOCK IT DOWN......... please !!!!!!

Seanchai · 16-11-2012 10:23pm

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Just watching it on Telifis Eireann news, it looks if this iconic Dublin building could be demolished and be replaced by an out of proportion monstrosity that will totally obliterate the skyline of Dublin.

As a kid I use to think this "skyscraper" was huge until I travelled to New York. city

It is now a part of our heritage despite its 'ugliness" and I think it should be classified as a listed building and remain.

Stupid, stupid poll. Liberty Hall should be demolished, but it should not be replaced with something of the magnitude of what SIPTU proposed. Post these sort of retarded "choices" in After Hours.

strandroad · 16-11-2012 10:26pm

Liberty Hall is no oil painting but that thing they wanted instead was horrific. Completely out of sync with anything around regarding its height, style, and general vibe. Back to drawing boards.

Bradidup · 16-11-2012 10:27pm

Seanchai wrote: »

Stupid, stupid poll. Liberty Hall should be demolished, but it should not be replaced with something of the magnitude of what SIPTU proposed. Post these sort of retarded "choices" in After Hours.

Sore loser.

Seanchai · 16-11-2012 10:32pm

Bradidup wrote: »

Sore loser.

? You're not in the Conspiracy Theories forum either.

Mr Simpson · 16-11-2012 10:41pm

Lads cut out the sniping. This isn't after hours, so lets not post like it is

Cienciano · 16-11-2012 11:41pm

mhge wrote: »

Liberty Hall is no oil painting but that thing they wanted instead was horrific. Completely out of sync with anything around regarding its height, style, and general vibe. Back to drawing boards.

What did they want to replace it with?

EDIT: Just saw it earlier in this thread. Not a great picture, but it doesn't look much better. I say keep Liberty Hall till a decent design comes along.

WoollyRedHat · 17-11-2012 12:21pm

neris wrote: »

Knock the horrid thing (prefrebly with jack and the other cronies inside)

Fantastic idea, a floor for every corporate whore.

WoollyRedHat · 17-11-2012 12:27pm

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

There would be outcry if the Empire State building in New York was to be demolished and replaced by something hideous. Liberty Hall is Ireland's Empire State building and should be restored to its pre 1972 condition rather than be demolished.

There are plenty of unfinished commercial properties about the capital that SIPTU could take over without having to demolish Liberty and destroy Dublin's skyline Hall. We have the unfinished Anglo Irish Bank building along the quays and also that other development in Sandyford.

If anyone can remember the IMCO building off Merrion Gares that was shamefully demolished in the late 70's That was about the same age as Liberty Hall is now.

Which is why the tourists swathe around it when they come to see Dublin. Go to the top of the Liberty Hall, see the city, amazing views, 40 euro a go!

Yeah right.

Mr Simpson · 17-11-2012 1:52pm

Libert hall is a poorly designed ugly box. Completely unfit for purpose. Even if they can't replace it, it should be knocked. Maybe regeneration of eden quay should be looked at (with the Abbey), with Siptu moving to the Docklands.

The Point Village tower already has planning and fully constructed foundations, maybe Siptu should look at that.

Blisterman · 20-11-2012 12:17pm

I think the argument that Dublin needs skyscrapers to be a modern city, or because it's somehow running out of room, to be a ridiculous concept.

Practically every third world city or provincial town in England has randomly placed skyscrapers. There's nothing special or modern about them. Dublin, on the other hand, has a relatively intact historic core, something which I see as much more valuable.

There are much better ways to increase density, with good town planning, making efficent use of brownfield sites, keeping street level car parking to a minimum.

I'd use Amsterdam as a model. Very few tall buildings, and essentially none in the historic core, yet it's one of the densest and most walkable cities in Europe.

As far as Liberty Hall goes, the existing building's far from a masterpiece, but the new proposal's much worse. At least liberty hall is slender. The new proposal is much bulkier and inelegant. Notice how all the renders show it from the narrowest end.

I think a lot of people here are attracted to the fact that it's new and shiny. But of course, so was Liberty Hall back in the 60's. What happens when the new proposal ages?

Personally, I think they'd be better off either demolishing it and replacing it with a much smaller building, or, as to be fair, it is a part of Dublin's history, reclad it, removing the ridiculous reflective glass to restore it's original transparent appearance.

FreudianSlippers · 20-11-2012 2:23pm

Amsterdam is a great example: a city with high rise development in its financial district which isn't far from its historic core.

I agree that up isn't always the best option, but I cannot stand the standard argument against tall because it is tall. Irish people are far too focused on creating urban sprawl than an efficient city with a historic core and a place for offices and financial institutions. Get the historic core back to residential!

Blisterman · 20-11-2012 2:55pm

To be honest, in most places, there's really little justification for tall buildings, other than to make a statement.

The taller a building is, the more it tends to cost per square metre of usable space, due to the more complex structural requirements, provision for access etc.

While there may be a case for it, in somewhere like Manhattan, land prices in Dublin, just don't justify building any taller than 8-10 storeys.

The reason Siptu want to build the tallest building in the city, is purely because it can act as a status symbol.

Marty McFly · 20-11-2012 3:46pm

Im all for knocking Liberty Hall as it really is an ugly as sin looking building but not with the proposed development, as in my opinion is just as ugly. Its to symmetrical jazz it up a bit.

Go skyscraper sure no problem with that but make it a more iconic looking building something that will make it stand out besides the fact its a skyscraper.

Davidth88 · 20-11-2012 3:46pm

I have always thought it's an ugly building ,however I never saw it before the windows were damaged etc.

Why do SIPTU require such a large building ? How many people does it require to run a union ?

I reckon it should be re-furbished TBH

Isn't there a theatre at the bottom of it ? ( not often in that part of town )

As for the high rise debate , one of the best things about Dublin ( IMO ) is the lack of high buildings and the fact you can see the sky.

Mr Simpson · 20-11-2012 4:41pm

Blisterman wrote: »

The reason Siptu want to build the tallest building in the city, is purely because it can act as a status symbol.

Partly, and partly because building higher creates more usable space. They want to rent out the extra usable space created to help fund the building.

Blisterman · 20-11-2012 8:29pm

Incidentally is there really much of a difference between what's there already and what they're proposing? It's just a slightly wider box.

Mr Simpson · 20-11-2012 8:33pm

tbh I'm beginning to change my opinion on this. Don't get me wrong, I wan't to see Liberty Hall gone, but maybe confining tall buildings to the Docklands wouldn't be the worst idea.

I'd love to see a new Abbey theatre on Eden Quay as part of a complete redevelopment (low rise) of that block

Judgement Day · 20-11-2012 8:36pm

The proposed new 'thing' is an abomination compared to the present monstrosity. Pull it down and put a garden with a bench in the footprint. On second thoughts that's not such a great idea as it would fill up with junkies.

Cookie_Monster · 20-11-2012 8:57pm

As the only reasonably high building in Dublin I would advocate it stays. Why replace it, build more highrise next to it if anything. Dublin badly needs to go up instead of continually spreading out.

strandroad · 20-11-2012 9:08pm

Blisterman wrote: »

Incidentally is there really much of a difference between what's there already and what they're proposing? It's just a slightly wider box.

Compare the proportions to existing buildings, it's much taller.

Mr Simpson · 20-11-2012 9:56pm

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

As the only reasonably high building in Dublin I would advocate it stays. Why replace it, build more highrise next to it if anything. Dublin badly needs to go up instead of continually spreading out.

I agree, but why not use the 30+ storey building at the point which already has foundations built?

SHOVELLER · 20-11-2012 11:06pm

Badly worded poll. The replacement is far from a montrosity.

I sometimes wonder are people not willing to see what is right in front of them. Liberty Hall is a disgrace and always has been. It is a dump inside and out and has zero redeeming features. Some want it to be protected! Do they also want Hawkins House protected?

We can go through ABP's decision and dismantle all their points for their disgraceful decision. The building is not economically viable. Replacing it would provide much needed jobs. Its a win win for everyone. Unfortunately the small mindedness is still prevalent in our city.

Dublin is a capital city which actually does justify skyscrapers.

Judgement Day · 20-11-2012 11:27pm

Given the possible consequences that Global Warming may have for the Docklands - something that has been completely ignored AFAIK - siting anything else down there would be daft. But then again may Ireland's neutrality will save us from Global Warming.

Bertser · 21-11-2012 1:30am

As long as they get rid of that horrible roof, I'll be happy.

Blisterman · 21-11-2012 9:07am

SHOVELLER wrote: »

Badly worded poll. The replacement is far from a montrosity.

I sometimes wonder are people not willing to see what is right in front of them. Liberty Hall is a disgrace and always has been. It is a dump inside and out and has zero redeeming features. Some want it to be protected! Do they also want Hawkins House protected?

Out of interest, what would you say the redeeming features of the proposed replacement are?

FreudianSlippers · 21-11-2012 11:33am

MarkMc wrote: »

tbh I'm beginning to change my opinion on this. Don't get me wrong, I wan't to see Liberty Hall gone, but maybe confining tall buildings to the Docklands wouldn't be the worst idea.

I'd love to see a new Abbey theatre on Eden Quay as part of a complete redevelopment (low rise) of that block

I actually agree that high rise should be confined to the docklands. I just don't like the rationale for objecting to this building in general as it hinders even this type of development in the docklands IMHO

SHOVELLER · 21-11-2012 11:36am

Blisterman wrote: »

Out of interest, what would you say the redeeming features of the proposed replacement are?

"The new Liberty Hall, designed by Gilroy McMahon, would include new offices, a public heritage centre, café, theatre and a “skydeck” viewing facility which would provide views across the city."

Obviously visually it would have been a vast improvement. If you have ever been inside the building you will see how poky and unfir for use it is.

Judgement Day · 21-11-2012 2:49pm

Bertser wrote: »

As long as they get rid of that horrible roof, I'll be happy.

I would have thought that the 'horrible' roof was the only positive feature of the original design.

Should Liberty hall be demolished and be replaced by a monstrosity?

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