Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Public Sector jobs going abroad.

Options
  • 19-10-2011 9:36pm
    #1
    LegacyUser
    Registered Users Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭


    I work in a very nice part of the public sector. However, the manager I work with has, amongst other things, replaced all Irish/European staff, with the exception of myself, with American staff. Now, two new posts are coming up soon, and it has become apparent to me that there is zero interest in recruitment within Ireland. Instead, staff have used conferences abroad to seek out possible candidates, and I've been told frankly that Irish staff aren't competitive and need not apply.

    This is straightforwardly unfair. These jobs are paid for by the taxpayer, Irish people should at least be invited to interview. Plus there is a lack of diversity about the place, with everyone agreeing with the US way of doing things. Even the panel members for the jobs will be all from the US.

    Does anyone have any thoughts on how to prevent this? Is there any legislation or Government Agency that can be pointed to that enforces some standard of fairness on interviews/recruitment? I don't want to create conflict, mainly for selfish reasons, but obviously want to have some kind of parity around here. Any advice?

    Many thanks!


Comments

  • Options
    #2
    eastbono
    Registered Users Posts: 2,758 ✭✭✭eastbono


    PS Worker wrote: »
    I work in a very nice part of the public sector. However, the manager I work with has, amongst other things, replaced all Irish/European staff, with the exception of myself, with American staff. Now, two new posts are coming up soon, and it has become apparent to me that there is zero interest in recruitment within Ireland. Instead, staff have used conferences abroad to seek out possible candidates, and I've been told frankly that Irish staff aren't competitive and need not apply.

    This is straightforwardly unfair. These jobs are paid for by the taxpayer, Irish people should at least be invited to interview. Plus there is a lack of diversity about the place, with everyone agreeing with the US way of doing things. Even the panel members for the jobs will be all from the US.

    Does anyone have any thoughts on how to prevent this? Is there any legislation or Government Agency that can be pointed to that enforces some standard of fairness on interviews/recruitment? I don't want to create conflict, mainly for selfish reasons, but obviously want to have some kind of parity around here. Any advice?

    Many thanks!

    Contact your union and explain to them what is happening.


  • Options
    #3
    tenchi-fan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,339 ✭✭✭tenchi-fan


    PS Worker wrote: »
    I work in a very nice part of the public sector. However, the manager I work with has, amongst other things, replaced all Irish/European staff, with the exception of myself, with American staff. Now, two new posts are coming up soon, and it has become apparent to me that there is zero interest in recruitment within Ireland.

    They can't stop you from applying.

    However, I can understand the need for fresh blood and some new skills, qualifications and experience in various parts of the public sector. I'd imagine this is why they're open to recruiting externally.


  • Options
    #4
    LegacyUser
    Registered Users Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    tenchi-fan wrote: »
    They can't stop you from applying.

    However, I can understand the need for fresh blood and some new skills, qualifications and experience in various parts of the public sector. I'd imagine this is why they're open to recruiting externally.

    They can stop a person from applying, but by indirect means. They are not advertising in Ireland at all as far as can be ascertained, they are actively recruiting in the US, and the panel selecting CVs will be made up of people from America. And while there may be a need for new skills, these skills can and do exist within Ireland. Finally, people's taxes are going to these salaries, it seems very unfair to not at least consider an Irish person.


  • Options
    #5
    eclectichoney
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,291 ✭✭✭eclectichoney


    PW Worker wrote: »
    They can stop a person from applying, but by indirect means. They are not advertising in Ireland at all as far as can be ascertained, they are actively recruiting in the US, and the panel selecting CVs will be made up of people from America. And while there may be a need for new skills, these skills can and do exist within Ireland. Finally, people's taxes are going to these salaries, it seems very unfair to not at least consider an Irish person.

    Why? Surely when the 'foreigners' move here to take up work they will also be paying taxes, buying lunches in the local shops, shopping in Grafton St on a Saturday etc. and thus supporting the Irish economy? The best people should get the job and maybe Irish people don't have the right skillset?


  • Options
    #6
    LegacyUser
    Registered Users Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    eclectichoney wrote: »
    The best people should get the job and maybe Irish people don't have the right skillset?
    Management flat out believes that Irish people are lazier, and usually more stupid. Other views expressed indicate that American staff toe the line more. Sorry, but this is nothing to do with skillset, this is overt prejudice.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #7
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users Posts: 25,723 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    I've met plenty of Irish who believe that their foreign colleagues work harder/better - and don't come in drunk or hung over.

    Very surprised to hear of this in a public service environment, though. Very few foreigners working anywhere in it, that I've seen.

    Doubly strange that Americans are involved, cos (unless they have Irish passports, so are technically as Irish as you), the employer needs to prove that no one in all of Europe is able to do the job. Just about impossible in most places. Especially a public service with a recruitment embargo in place.


  • Options
    #8
    rossc007
    Registered Users Posts: 627 ✭✭✭rossc007


    Isn't there a hiring freeze in the PS? I think there might be more to this story. What kind of jobs are they, skilled?

    This attitude is very unusual from my experience in the PS. The management where just as lazy as the rest.


  • Options
    #9
    mikemac
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,986 ✭✭✭✭mikemac


    Isn't there a rule about advertising the position before taking on non-EU candidates.
    Anyway, I'd also say these Americans have Irish passports, many do over there

    Ask your union to quietly investigate what's going on


  • Options
    #10
    LegacyUser
    Registered Users Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    JustMary: Many thanks for the post - can I ask, if they don't, what recourse exists? There is such overt distain for Irish staff around here, there will be no suggestion of parity at all. And no Irish staff come in here hung over either.

    rossc007:There is a freeze in the civil service, but the Public Service extends to all hospitals, universities and non-Government agencies, and these are hiring. These jobs would be skilled, but not by necessity very well paid (and taxed to the hilt).

    Mikemac: I'm under that impression too, but I'm trying to find out how it is enforced. And none of the Americans hold Irish passports - if anything, they openly distain the suggestion of Ireland being anyway worthwhile at all.


  • Options
    #11
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users Posts: 25,723 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    PS Worker wrote: »
    JustMary: Many thanks for the post - can I ask, if they don't, what recourse exists? There is such overt distain for Irish staff around here, there will be no suggestion of parity at all. And no Irish staff come in here hung over either.

    To get in to the country, these folks need to have either EU passports, or work visas. These work visas are pretty hard to get AFAIK, and cannot be obtained without the employer having proved lack of suitable Europeans.

    I've met a few skilled Americans who've looked for every avenue into the country, but had absolutely no chance.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #12
    looksee
    Registered Users Posts: 28,121 ✭✭✭✭looksee


    There are a few things not making sense here.

    A job is not 'taxed to the hilt', a worker might be, but that depends on their circumstances.

    Americans cannot be employed in the public service - or anywhere else - just because management want to employ them - as pointed out by JustMary.

    Why would management make an issue of saying they will not employ Irish people, far more circumspect to just not employ an Irish person, they can't stop Irish people applying.


  • Options
    #13
    muddled1
    Registered Users Posts: 81 ✭✭muddled1


    Sounds fishy to me


  • Options
    #14
    Cavehill Red
    Registered Users Posts: 6,109 ✭✭✭Cavehill Red


    Taking the OP at face value (though I suspect cogent details may be missing, if it's not actually factually inaccurate), I'd suggest leaking this to the press.

    With 480,000 on the dole in Ireland, it would be politically poisonous for any arm of the state to be found directing employment, not only outside of Ireland to the EU (as may be permitted under European tendering processes) but to Americans.


  • Options
    #15
    LegacyUser
    Registered Users Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    looksee wrote: »
    There are a few things not making sense here.
    Happy to clarify.

    A job is not 'taxed to the hilt', a worker might be, but that depends on their circumstances.
    Apologies, I am being inexact. This role is taxed quite highly, rather than the person, you're correct.

    Americans cannot be employed in the public service - or anywhere else - just because management want to employ them - as pointed out by JustMary.
    Sorry, but that is simply not the case, and I think people may be getting confused between the Civil Service and the Public Service. The Civil Service may have more requirements to go through, but in the general Public Service, there is the most rudimentary of barriers put in place. If the employer wants it, then it seems to happen without any problems.
    Why would management make an issue of saying they will not employ Irish people, far more circumspect to just not employ an Irish person, they can't stop Irish people applying.
    That, frankly, is the point of the thread. It is one thing to prefer one candidate over another. It is very much a different context to reject, without any real review, Irish or European candidates on the basis of their nationality or on the basis of a belief they are not as hard working as Americans. I'm aware that there are many Americans more competitive or energetic than Europeans, but this selection process is not happening on the basis of merit. It is happen solely on the basis of Nationality; Irish & European candidates will be rejected out of hand for no other reason than not being American. I'll repeat that not one person here, bar myself, is anything other than American, so this prejudice has already taken concrete form.


  • Options
    #16
    muddled1
    Registered Users Posts: 81 ✭✭muddled1


    This still doesn't make any sense, if the employees are referring to do not have EU citizenship. If they are working in the Irish public sector are they perhaps doctors or medical technicians? Or are they US public sector workers working in the US Embassy? How would a single-nationality US citizen get a PPSN?

    http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/moving_country/moving_to_ireland/rights_of_residence_in_ireland/residence_rights_of_non_eea_nationals_in_ireland.html


  • Options
    #17
    LegacyUser
    Registered Users Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    Not surprisingly, I'm not going to go into it, muddled1.



    Mods, I don't think the thread is going anywhere; would it be possible to delete it? Several other staff members are on Boards, and it may be time to give up the ghost here.


  • Options
    #18
    Eoin
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 21,238 CMod ✭✭✭✭Eoin


    Thread locked, no need to delete it.


This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement