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Greece Will Never Repay Debt, Bailout All About "Rescuing Banks And Rich Greeks"

  • 20-05-2010 9:40am
    #1
    Run_to_da_hills
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭


    It looks like we may Kiss good bye to the €1.3bn of taxpayers money that will be used to bail out Greece according to an Ex-Bundesbank Chief.

    This all sounds so familiar, :o

    Ex-Bundesbank Chief Says Greece Will Never Repay Debt, Bailout All About "Rescuing Banks And Rich Greeks"

    "Finally someone speaks the truth. In an interview with Spiegel Magazine, former Bundesbank chief Karl Otto Pohl, says it how it is: "Without a "haircut," a partial debt waiver, [Greece] cannot and will not ever [repay its debt]. So why not immediately? That would have been one alternative. The European Union should have declared half a year ago -- or even earlier -- that Greek debt needed restructuring." As for the reason for the bailout, Pohl's observation will not be a surprise to our readers "It was about protecting German banks, but especially the French banks, from debt write offs." Is there any hope for Europe now? It appears no, as the right decision was to let Greece go bankrupt: "Investors would quickly have seen that Greece could get a handle on its debt problems. And for that reason, trust would quickly have been restored. But that moment has passed. Now we have this mess." Amusingly, when asked if banks used "speculators" as a straw man to break all EU Rules and especially the Lisbon treaty:"Of course that's possible. In fact, it's even plausible." We can't wait until the German population realizes just how massively it has been scammed. Last week's Nordrhein-Westphalia Merkel loss will seem like a walk in the park once the mobilized German society decides to fix things on its own. Oh, and look for the EU and the euro to be a thing of the past".

    Karl Otto Pöhl was head of the German central bank, the Bundesbank, from 1980 to 1991.

    http://www.zerohedge.com/article/ex-bundesbank-chief-says-greece-will-never-repay-debt-says-bailout-all-about-rescuing-banks-

    Dialague.


Comments

  • #2
    Fuhrer
    Registered Users Posts: 4,661 ✭✭✭Fuhrer


    Well, if one banker said it...


  • #3
    ei.sdraob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭ei.sdraob


    Greece Will Never Repay Debts...


    whats the world coming to?

    im agreement with @Run_to_da_hills about something ^^^

    :P


  • #4
    Run_to_da_hills
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    Fuhrer wrote: »
    Well, if one banker said it...
    Ex banker, im sure he is mow on a fat pension. :p


  • #5
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    The European powers probably don't like to admit it but they know they are unlikely to get their input back in the form that they gave it - but maybe it might be gained back long term by a domino effect of stablising their economy. To do so means they survive and eventually continue to buy our products and services.

    In cases like this I don't think there is no clear right or wrong - except that to do nothing at all, would be the biggest mistake of all.


  • #6
    Banned Account
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,553 ✭✭✭Banned Account


    Should we have offered them Anglo instead of the cash?


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  • #7
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    Fitzcaraldo wrote: »
    Should we have offered them Anglo instead of the cash?
    Who would want a bottomless cash blackhole?


  • #8
    Banned Account
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,553 ✭✭✭Banned Account


    Biggins wrote: »
    Who would want a bottomless cash blackhole?


    What are you on about? That was an 'investment'


    <---<

    >--->

    *whistles*


  • #9
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    Fitzcaraldo wrote: »
    What are you on about? That was an 'investment'


    <---<

    >--->

    *whistles*

    :pac: I hear ya! :pac:


  • #10
    the_syco
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,305 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    Run_to_da_hills wrote: »
    once the mobilized German society decides to fix things on its own. Oh, and look for the EU and the euro to be a thing of the past".
    Sounds like someone is praying for "Adolf Hitler 2: Return of the Empire"... :rolleyes:


  • #11
    Manach
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 9,733 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manach


    Surely an Adeneur or Bismark would do :)


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  • #12
    Scofflaw
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,283 ✭✭✭✭Scofflaw


    It's always been easy and popular to represent the paying back of debt as being about the good of bankers. In previous eras, when Jews were the main moneylenders in Europe, there would be calls for a pogrom right now. And to be fair, it's obviously true to the extent that the bankers will suffer if the debts are not repaid.

    However, it completely ignores the responsibility for acquiring the debt in the first place. The Greek government didn't borrow money to spend on banks - it borrowed money to spend on a combination of corruption, unsustainable government spending, and replacement for its failure to collect taxes. In other words, the Greek nation lived beyond their means, courtesy of their government, and now the debts are falling due.

    Does moral hazard not apply to people and their elected governments?

    cordially,
    Scofflaw


  • #13
    changes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 959 ✭✭✭changes


    The EU prob know that greese greece will prob need to write off some of their debt. But they have calculated that if they let them do it now it might encourage Portugal, Spain, Ireland or Italy to ease up on their austerity measures and look for the same debt forgiveness.


  • #14
    anymore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,672 ✭✭✭anymore


    Scofflaw wrote: »
    It's always been easy and popular to represent the paying back of debt as being about the good of bankers. In previous eras, when Jews were the main moneylenders in Europe, there would be calls for a pogrom right now. And to be fair, it's obviously true to the extent that the bankers will suffer if the debts are not repaid.

    However, it completely ignores the responsibility for acquiring the debt in the first place. The Greek government didn't borrow money to spend on banks - it borrowed money to spend on a combination of corruption, unsustainable government spending, and replacement for its failure to collect taxes. In other words, the Greek nation lived beyond their means, courtesy of their government, and now the debts are falling due.

    Does moral hazard not apply to people and their elected governments?

    cordially,
    Scofflaw

    It is usually forgotten that bankers move on with thie golden parachutes but that the thousands of shareholders who include pension funds and individual shareholders, large and small who are the ones who must absorb the losses on share valuer.
    I have difficulty in understanding why an ordinary individual who has money on deposit in an irish bank is an innocent who needs to be protected from the perils of the marketplace by having a government deposit guarantee, but if he has a few hundred shares in the same bank, he is adjudged to be a sophisticated investor who deserves what he has got because of the behaviour of the banks management and can be villified !:confused:


  • #15
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    Ah shur lads, it's only 1.3 billion.. Pocket change for the tax payer..


  • #16
    Exile 1798
    Registered Users Posts: 709 ✭✭✭Exile 1798


    What's interesting is his comment on the Euro being history. I'm not sure that's true but it's an interesting thought.

    So much pain for Greece could have been alleviated if they were able to devalue their currency... off course they no longer have their own currency to devalue, and this makes their crisis a problem for the while Eurozone.

    What's for sure is that the slight chance of the UK ever joining the Eurozone has now completely evaporated.


  • #17
    danman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 583 ✭✭✭danman


    anymore wrote: »
    I have difficulty in understanding why an ordinary individual who has money on deposit in an irish bank is an innocent who needs to be protected from the perils of the marketplace by having a government deposit guarantee, but if he has a few hundred shares in the same bank, he is adjudged to be a sophisticated investor who deserves what he has got because of the behaviour of the banks management and can be villified !:confused:

    surely there is a massive differance between an individual who keeps his money in a bank for safe keeping, instead of keeping it under the mattress.
    And an investor who gambles on a share investment.
    Remember the tagline, investments may go up, as well as down.


  • #18
    Scofflaw
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,283 ✭✭✭✭Scofflaw


    Exile 1798 wrote: »
    What's interesting is his comment on the Euro being history. I'm not sure that's true but it's an interesting thought.

    So much pain for Greece could have been alleviated if they were able to devalue their currency... off course they no longer have their own currency to devalue, and this makes their crisis a problem for the while Eurozone.

    What's for sure is that the slight chance of the UK ever joining the Eurozone has now completely evaporated.

    Would it have saved them pain, though? If their debts were in euro - or, in the absence of the euro, say dollars - then devaluation wouldn't have saved them any pain at all. Wouldn't they have been in the classic third-world position, soft currency country with debts in hard currency?

    cordially,
    Scofflaw


  • #19
    Run_to_da_hills
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    dlofnep wrote: »
    Ah shur lads, it's only 1.3 billion.. Pocket change for the tax payer..
    Ah shure its only 1/3 the cost of constructing Metro North. We have enough busses about the city so we can do with out that for another few years........


  • #20
    Exile 1798
    Registered Users Posts: 709 ✭✭✭Exile 1798


    Scofflaw wrote: »
    Would it have saved them pain, though? If their debts were in euro - or, in the absence of the euro, say dollars - then devaluation wouldn't have saved them any pain at all. Wouldn't they have been in the classic third-world position, soft currency country with debts in hard currency?

    cordially,
    Scofflaw

    Fair point, it would have been a different type of pain for Greece.

    It's clear they should never have been allowed into the Eurozone in the first place. Is it too late to swap them for Turkey?


  • #21
    peasant
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,819 ✭✭✭✭peasant


    Exile 1798 wrote: »
    What's interesting is his comment on the Euro being history. I'm not sure that's true but it's an interesting thought.

    in the interview he also said:
    SPIEGEL: If you were president of the Bundesbank today, would you be ordering the printing of German marks just in case they became necessary?

    Pohl: No, no, we have not gone that far quite yet. In my opinion, the euro is in no danger. Perhaps one of the smaller countries will have to leave the currency union.

    SPIEGEL: How should that work?

    Pohl: It would involve Greece, if we stick with the case we were discussing, reintroducing the drachma.
    http://freeinternetpress.com/story.php?sid=25769 (can't find the "Der Spiegel" original at the moment)

    EDIT: Here is the Spiegel interview http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,695245,00.html


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  • #22
    unseen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 213 ✭✭unseen


    I am highly disappointed about the things many people say about Greeks.
    Some of them are correct but most of the things you are reading especially in German sites is completely b*****it. But you know what? I am not blaming you. There are not many sources these days that you can really trust. The reporters are saying always their opinion. Not the facts. Did you read anywhere for example about the C4I scandal? (http://www.scribd.com/doc/14433472/Siemens-Scandal-Siemens-Hellas)

    I know Greeks have made a lot of mistakes. The biggest one is they trusted for the past 30 years the same corrupted politicians. And trust me if you have asked a greek 3-4 years ago what was his country debt i am sure he couldnt give you an answer. The media was saying nothing about it.

    Anyway the thing is this problem should be fixed. And they will find a way to give the money back. Not by selling islands of course. But by hard work , with the only difference that this time they will get paid less.(Basic salary was in 2008 700euro monthly and now is back to 500)

    Working hours annually.Source
    http://stats.oecd.org/Index.aspx
    temp4.JPG

    I can assure you that 95% of the Greeks now are walking with their eyes looking on the ground from embarrassment. And the worst thing is they are not those who have to pay.


  • #23
    Banned Account
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,553 ✭✭✭Banned Account


    from looking at the above, it is clear that we should all move to the Netherlands.


  • #24
    halkar
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,271 ✭✭✭halkar


    Where all the money EU talking about is coming from? Lately they are talking about trillions. Are they going to follow the US lead and start doing overtime with printing money?


  • #25
    anymore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,672 ✭✭✭anymore


    Run_to_da_hills wrote: »
    It looks like we may Kiss good bye to the €1.3bn of taxpayers money that will be used to bail out Greece according to an Ex-Bundesbank Chief.

    This all sounds so familiar, :o

    Ex-Bundesbank Chief Says Greece Will Never Repay Debt, Bailout All About "Rescuing Banks And Rich Greeks"

    "Finally someone speaks the truth. In an interview with Spiegel Magazine, former Bundesbank chief Karl Otto Pohl, says it how it is: "Without a "haircut," a partial debt waiver, [Greece] cannot and will not ever [repay its debt]. So why not immediately? That would have been one alternative. The European Union should have declared half a year ago -- or even earlier -- that Greek debt needed restructuring." As for the reason for the bailout, Pohl's observation will not be a surprise to our readers "It was about protecting German banks, but especially the French banks, from debt write offs." Is there any hope for Europe now? It appears no, as the right decision was to let Greece go bankrupt: "Investors would quickly have seen that Greece could get a handle on its debt problems. And for that reason, trust would quickly have been restored. But that moment has passed. Now we have this mess." Amusingly, when asked if banks used "speculators" as a straw man to break all EU Rules and especially the Lisbon treaty:"Of course that's possible. In fact, it's even plausible." We can't wait until the German population realizes just how massively it has been scammed. Last week's Nordrhein-Westphalia Merkel loss will seem like a walk in the park once the mobilized German society decides to fix things on its own. Oh, and look for the EU and the euro to be a thing of the past".

    Karl Otto Pöhl was head of the German central bank, the Bundesbank, from 1980 to 1991.

    http://www.zerohedge.com/article/ex-bundesbank-chief-says-greece-will-never-repay-debt-says-bailout-all-about-rescuing-banks-

    Dialague.

    Clearly people who think we will never get our money back fall into the same category as those who were advsed to ' commit suicide' by the! Dear Leader Bertie '. :D


  • #26
    unseen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 213 ✭✭unseen


    Articles like that make me sick... :(
    http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/columnists/article7133463.ece
    My proposal is that the price for budgetary misbehaviour should be a temporary loss of national territory. A segment of land of appropriate size would be transferred to a neighbouring state and held in trust in return for financial assistance until the debt was repayed.


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