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28-03-2013, 12:31   #181
MomijiHime
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Good on all of you for working so hard! I can't imagine learning over 100 kanji in a day.. I'm going to start studying Japanese once I finish my Junior cert in June and I'm in TY next year so I hope to learn a lot then!
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28-03-2013, 12:33   #182
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Enjoy it I self studied Japanese for the leaving cert, starting in TY is a great idea.
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28-03-2013, 12:37   #183
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Enjoy it I self studied Japanese for the leaving cert, starting in TY is a great idea.
Thanks!
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23-06-2013, 09:24   #184
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Had the chance to speak Japanese in work on Friday with a Japanese girl who was over for an interview, I fluffed a bit and was nervous at first, but it was okay. However I left a bit thrown as I've been studying for quite a while now, and my speaking ability should have been much better. I'm reading short stories and newspaper articles with real comprehensibility now, and should have little difficulty scoring quite well on N3 this December, but it left me sort of upset cause I knew I was better than I let on.

Overall I guess it was good, cause now I'm gonna pay more attention to speaking and active use of the language, it is after all what I'm more passionate about I guess. Whilst talking to her I found it interesting that she said she often stumbles when writing kanji, and that a lot of people her age do, because she writes with a pen so little these days, and recognition is much easier than active production of kanji, so they have no problem writing in full kanji on a phone/computer because it's automatic. Kinda helped put it in perspective I guess, for me it is more important to be able to communicate without constantly stumbling than getting an N2 certificate etc. So if the occasional hiccup when writing kanji is okay for a native speaker, surely it's good enough for me?
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23-06-2013, 11:47   #185
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Originally Posted by fewtins View Post
Had the chance to speak Japanese in work on Friday with a Japanese girl who was over for an interview, I fluffed a bit and was nervous at first, but it was okay. However I left a bit thrown as I've been studying for quite a while now, and my speaking ability should have been much better. I'm reading short stories and newspaper articles with real comprehensibility now, and should have little difficulty scoring quite well on N3 this December, but it left me sort of upset cause I knew I was better than I let on.

Overall I guess it was good, cause now I'm gonna pay more attention to speaking and active use of the language, it is after all what I'm more passionate about I guess. Whilst talking to her I found it interesting that she said she often stumbles when writing kanji, and that a lot of people her age do, because she writes with a pen so little these days, and recognition is much easier than active production of kanji, so they have no problem writing in full kanji on a phone/computer because it's automatic. Kinda helped put it in perspective I guess, for me it is more important to be able to communicate without constantly stumbling than getting an N2 certificate etc. So if the occasional hiccup when writing kanji is okay for a native speaker, surely it's good enough for me?
It's becoming more of an issue for young Japanese people now. My students spend hours every week just writing kanji. There's no writing on JLPT btw.
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23-06-2013, 15:34   #186
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Yeah writing is becoming a dying art with Japans youth, mainly down to technology. Phones and computers mean that only recognition is important, rather than remembering that one....tiny....little stroke.

Jury's out I suppose on the significance of this, but what it means is that it can help the language learner, if all they want to do it speak, listen or read. Benny, from fluent in 3 months discusses this in his articles about learning Madarin (on a phone, can't link, but it's a good read).

Ironically, it means that really serious learners of Japanese (gaijin that is) sometimes have a firmer grasp on kanji than natives. Kazumoto on ajatt has mentioned this a few times, as has the chap on Level up your Japanese.

Personally, I love kanji, and want to learn as much as possible about them (with regards to practical kanji....not those REALLY old ones). But.....if your goal is just communication through speaking, there's a strong argument for not worrying about learning how to write them. Just focus on recognition for when computers/cell phones prompt.
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23-06-2013, 15:39   #187
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It's becoming more of an issue for young Japanese people now. My students spend hours every week just writing kanji. There's no writing on JLPT btw.
That's interesting. And yeah I know, but I always put a lot of effort in to writing anyway as I just felt 'I should', but now starting to consider if I really need such a thorough grasp on that aspect of the language, especially seeing as in the future we'll all probably be typing more and writing even less. And it's not as if I'm personally ever going to need Japanese for work/school etc.
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24-06-2013, 13:08   #188
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Ironically, it means that really serious learners of Japanese (gaijin that is) sometimes have a firmer grasp on kanji than natives. Kazumoto on ajatt has mentioned this a few times, as has the chap on Level up your Japanese.
These cases must be seriously few and far between. And it would have to be some super super serious kanji learner, against a not so clever native....

I imagine it parallels english-speakers ability to spell words. I imagine some people are saying children growing up are getting worse at spelling because of auto correct.

Could you post some links to the stuff you mentioned? onegai shimasu!
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24-06-2013, 14:15   #189
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You'd be surprised!

I think I should clarify though! When I said that foreigners sometimes have a firmer grasp, it is literally the difference of a stroke or two, that's it (imagine, as you rightly said, a Japanese person correcting your spelling of say.....camouflage, or whatever word you might consistently slip up with regards to spelling. It may be a difficult one to spell off the top of the head, but we can read it immediately upon seeing it).

It actually happened to me once. My Japanese teacher couldn't remember how to write 描, meaning to sketch, or draw/paint. It was the top radical that confused her, but I came to the rescue and she couldn't believe i knew it.

http://www.fluentin3months.com/chinese-week-1/


This is Benny's take on Mandarin. It's not the one I read specifically, but he does mention his technological approach, and reliance on phones/apps etc.

These blogs are ridiculously difficult to navigate, and as such I also can't find Kazumoto's one... :/ I'll have a proper search later (about to hit the hay) and see if I can find them, sorry!
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