So I taxed the car today

RobAMerc · 25-11-2012 11:56pm #1

1yr €1683

I hate paying it but what really gets my goat is that to tax for 3 months it would be €475 or €1900 annually or €934 for 6 months ( €1864 )

Given that the whole system is automated now can someone pls tell me why the €200+ penalty for opting to pay 1/4ly ?

Aren't the government supposed to be helping folks cut their bills - why add a 200 quid charge to "pay it off" rather than almost forcing people to pay up in one go ? It would almost be cheaper to pay the credit card interest than this - not helpful I must say.

Perhaps an email campaign to Mr Varadkar ?

challengemaster · 25-11-2012 11:59pm

Because people are still doing the pay 3 months, skip 2 thing. It's giving people an incentive to pay yearly, which in turn increases compliance (in theory).

Also it's not all automated. There'd be a lot more work issuing every tax disc on a 3 month basis.

26-11-2012 12:03am

I see it as they effectively charge you high interest for not paying the full amount up front. So I generally let them wait 29 days four times a year before they receive my payments.

tfker · 26-11-2012 12:10am

What were you taxing for that kind of money a lorry?

166man · 26-11-2012 12:11am

I pay every three months mainly because I couldn't afford the €478 lump sum in one go. I wouldn't waste my time delaying the payment, just pay it and forget it!:D

Might go to 6 months when the tax is up next time. It's just ludicrous though I mean €1700 just to get that disc on your screen.

CiniO · 26-11-2012 12:13am

166man wrote: »

I pay every three months mainly because I couldn't afford the €478 lump sum in one go. I wouldn't waste my time delaying the payment, just pay it and forget it!:D

Might go to 6 months when the tax is up next time. It's just ludicrous though I mean €1700 just to get that disc on your screen.

6 months comes only a tiny bit cheaper than 3 months - not really worth it.
Either pay 12 months for saving, or pay every 3 months.

26-11-2012 12:13am

166man wrote: »

.........I wouldn't waste my time delaying the payment, just pay it and forget it!:D..........

How is a waste of time not paying on time?
Please do explain.

CarrickMcJoe · 26-11-2012 12:16am

Surely you knew how much the tax was bfore you bought the car. It wasn't just sprung on you last month.
Which reminds me, I must pay mine...

bazz26 · 26-11-2012 12:28am

People seem to get this confused regularly.

The 12 month motor tax rate includes a discount or incentive for taxing it for the entire year which is more money up front for Revenue. If there was no incentive then most people would not bother taxing their car for 12 months.

Bigus · 26-11-2012 1:07am

If you work the bangernomics purchase properly you wil never have to pay tax and never have to drive illegally , just look harder, boys !

Conmaicne Mara · 26-11-2012 1:14am

RobAMerc wrote: »

1yr €1683

That's over three years motor tax for me.

thecomedian · 26-11-2012 1:41am

I paid this a few days ago, did it for the12 months. I was worried that it might be even higher after the budget

Our man in Havana · 26-11-2012 1:44am

A lot of people are going for 12 months now to head off changes before the budget.

the_syco · 26-11-2012 1:50am

RoverJames wrote: »

I see it as they effectively charge you high interest for not paying the full amount up front. So I generally let them wait 29 days four times a year before they receive my payments.

Do you give in a form that says the car was off the road for the last month, or why does the tax office not just start the tax months since the last time the tax ran out?

Our man in Havana · 26-11-2012 1:52am

It starts when the last tax expired so 29 days earlier.

MaxyJazz · 26-11-2012 1:59am

Is there many people taxing their 3ltr cars?
I have a 3.2ltr and I don't drive her anymore

so don't tax her...

166man · 26-11-2012 10:45am

Our man in Havana wrote: »

A lot of people are going for 12 months now to head off changes before the budget.

Noticed that actually these days, a huge amount of cars buying their tax discs just in case something drastic is being brought in. I can't see anything happening like that though. It will just be a bit more expensive.

As said I go three months because I wouldn't have the cash to spend.

listermint · 26-11-2012 10:58am

Our man in Havana wrote: »

A lot of people are going for 12 months now to head off changes before the budget.

If they hit up the 1683 tax again thats it! government buildings needs to burn down.

jimogr · 26-11-2012 11:59am

Our man in Havana wrote: »

A lot of people are going for 12 months now to head off changes before the budget.

Yeah usually do the 3 months thing, but paid for a full year yesterday. 478. My guess is it will save me about 115 euro. 62 for paying the year in advance and then I'm guessing 15% increase in the budget on the later 9 months of the 12 month disc.

Jim

RobAMerc · 26-11-2012 12:58pm

bazz26 wrote: »

People seem to get this confused regularly.

The 12 month motor tax rate includes a discount or incentive for taxing it for the entire year which is more money up front for Revenue. If there was no incentive then most people would not bother taxing their car for 12 months.

So you are saying that in actual fact the price is actually €1900 and €1683 is a discount afforded to me just because I am able to pay it ?

Revenue collection should be about fairness, the inequality here is atrocious.

As I said we should mount an email campaign - people who cannot pay up front are being discriminated against.

Guy:Incognito · 26-11-2012 1:00pm

RobAMerc wrote: »

So you are saying that in actual fact the price is actually €1900 and €1683 is a discount afforded to me just because I am able to pay it ?

Revenue collection should be about fairness, the inequality here is atrocious.

As I said we should mount an email campaign - people who cannot pay up front are being discriminated against.

Is there not penalties for plenty of other things like not paying you vat on time at the end of the month /tax year as well as other forms of taxation?

MugMugs · 26-11-2012 1:02pm

Our man in Havana wrote: »

It starts when the last tax expired so 29 days earlier.

And would arrears not be payable too if you took this method?

MetzgerMeister · 26-11-2012 1:06pm

MugMugs wrote: »

And would arrears not be payable too if you took this method?

Nope, if your tax is out on the 30th of the month and you tax it on the 30th of the following month, it's still only taxed until the month in which it expired a year later.

There's a month's grace really but if you go over that then your liable for arrears.

inforfun · 26-11-2012 1:12pm

First time i taxed my car it turned out i had to pay for 13 months.
The one month extra was more than 440/12. It was actually €44 i had to pay for that month.

So in fact, if you pay for 12 months, you get a 2 month "discount"

cjt156 · 26-11-2012 1:12pm

In these days of ANPR it should be payable monthly by Direct Debit. OK you'll get the argument that you could cancel the DD once you receive your disk. But that's the case for insurance too, hence ANPR. No penalty for paying by DD, easier payments, more compliance, policed by ANPR.

RobAMerc · 26-11-2012 1:13pm

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Is there not penalties for plenty of other things like not paying you vat on time at the end of the month /tax year as well as other forms of taxation?

No one mentioned paying late - there are arrears fees which I have no issue with. I have an issue with the fact that pre paying affords the payee a significant discount over those who can only pay by instalment. This in my opinion is not a fair system.

galwaytt · 26-11-2012 1:14pm

bazz26 wrote: »

People seem to get this confused regularly.

The 12 month motor tax rate includes a discount or incentive for taxing it for the entire year which is more money up front for Revenue. If there was no incentive then most people would not bother taxing their car for 12 months.

Incentive ? ..don't make me laugh.......

I think it's just as easily read as: have plenty of money, pay less tax. Be working to the pin of your collar and scraping by, and only able to pay in increments: here pay more tax.

That's a two-tiered society, right there.

Same with post 08- cars in respect of their VRT and motor tax. Those that could afford them, pay less. Those that can't, pay more.

RobAMerc · 26-11-2012 1:15pm

cjt156 wrote: »

In these days of ANPR it should be payable monthly by Direct Debit. OK you'll get the argument that you could cancel the DD once you receive your disk. But that's the case for insurance too, hence ANPR. No penalty for paying by DD, easier payments, more compliance, policed by ANPR.

This makes total sense - the disk is really only a simple visual aid to police now.
ANPR actually makes it defunct and would allow a simple and easy to police system for DD.

Guy:Incognito · 26-11-2012 1:15pm

RobAMerc wrote: »

No one mentioned paying late - there are arrears fees which I have no issue with. I have an issue with the fact that pre paying affords the payee a significant discount over those who can only pay by instalment. This in my opinion is not a fair system.

Most systems charge interest on paying by instalments do they not? Insurance for one.

Guy:Incognito · 26-11-2012 1:18pm

galwaytt wrote: »

I think it's just as easily read as: have plenty of money, pay less tax. Be working to the pin of your collar and scraping by, and only able to pay in increments: here pay more tax.

That's a two-tiered society, right there..

Yeah those people driving around in 15 year old micras are the financial elite. Not everyone paying a relatively low level of motor tax is driving a brand new 320D as certain people would like everyone to believe.
At this stage were in year 5 of the new system. Plenty of cheap cars in that bracket.

inforfun · 26-11-2012 1:19pm

galwaytt wrote: »

Incentive ? ..don't make me laugh.......

I think it's just as easily read as: have plenty of money, pay less tax. Be working to the pin of your collar and scraping by, and only able to pay in increments: here pay more tax.

That's a two-tiered society, right there.

Same with post 08- cars in respect of their VRT and motor tax. Those that could afford them, pay less. Those that can't, pay more.

Well, if you cant take the hit in 1 go for 12 months tax, save up for it.
it is not that motor tax falls from the sky all of a sudden. Once you have paid it, you know exactly when you have to pay again.

I am not rich nor have i plenty of money but not trying to tax your car as "cheap" as possible isnt going to help.

Our man in Havana · 26-11-2012 1:20pm

I am surprised that no one ever challenged the post 08 system as being unfair.

Guy:Incognito · 26-11-2012 1:21pm

RobAMerc wrote: »

This makes total sense - the disk is really only a simple visual aid to police now.
ANPR actually makes it defunct and would allow a simple and easy to police system for DD.

If the whole country was covered by ANPR it would be an option but how many Garda cars actually have it and how many would be needed to have every car in the country passing one at least every couple of week at a very minimum.

The fact that so many people drive without tax is proof that the system isn't ready to be run on ANPR alone.

Our man in Havana wrote: »

I am surprised that no one ever challenged the post 08 system as being unfair.

The UK have a separate system for C02 too. Think it changed around 02 or so. We're hardly unique.

26-11-2012 1:22pm

+1 for the DD option.

I pay my Insurance, Fuelcard, Toll, Phone bill Monthly via DD. Im 100% compliant with all of them, with car tax i'm encouraged to skip a few months due to effort, penalty for not paying yearly etc

It is 2013 next year is it not, the govt need to get with the times.

Guy:Incognito · 26-11-2012 1:23pm

cisk wrote: »

+1 for the DD option.

I pay my Insurance, Fuelcard, Toll, Phone bill Monthly via DD. Im 100% compliant with all of them, with car tax i'm encouraged to skip a few months due to effort, penalty for not paying yearly etc

It is 2013 next year is it not, the govt need to get with the times.

Your paying a penalty on your insurance for not paying in a lump sum.

Our man in Havana · 26-11-2012 1:23pm

The UK is talking about abolishing the paper disk from 2014.

MetzgerMeister · 26-11-2012 1:26pm

cjt156 wrote: »

In these days of ANPR it should be payable monthly by Direct Debit. OK you'll get the argument that you could cancel the DD once you receive your disk. But that's the case for insurance too, hence ANPR. No penalty for paying by DD, easier payments, more compliance, policed by ANPR.

Good idea BUT think about the amount of hassle when a car is sold, seller has to stop the direct debit, give the details of the new owner, new owner has to start up DD. Even at that, it's not guaranteed that the new owner will set up DD and they more than likely will take chances when it comes to ANPR as not all Garda cars are set up with the ANPR system.

Doing that just opens up a whole lot more problems with changeover and it would possibly incur more money because there is a charge for setting up DD.

The easiest way to make sure people pay their tax is to get rid of the current system and add it to the price of fuel. It's that simple.

Idbatterim · 26-11-2012 1:29pm

If they hit up the 1683 tax again thats it! government buildings needs to burn down.

of course it will go up. They arent just going to increase some and leave the others. I reckon the cost of taxing over 3L will be near on if not over 2k if done every quarter, after the budget!

26-11-2012 1:31pm

MugMugs wrote: »

And would arrears not be payable too if you took this method?

Nope, as per the notice one receives for motor tax renewal.

I think as there is a minority of people paying large motor tax rates we can fully expect another rise in them as the lower rates will he going up. Increases across the board.

bazz26 · 26-11-2012 1:46pm

Lads, a tax by it's own definition is not about being fair or just, its about collecting revenue.

The argument for it being fair/unfair or that that post 2007 owners are getting away with murder has been done to death. One could also argue that if people didn't buy new low tax cars then VRT and VAT revenue would be down meaning that the Government would target the pre 2008 driver through even higher motor tax rates than already there, not to mention increasing the likes of USC or PAYE for everyone to make up the short fall.

I hate paying tax the same as the next guy but the reality is that which ever way you look at it there is no magic wond that will fix or make a tax "fair" to everyone.

listermint · 26-11-2012 1:50pm

Idbatterim wrote: »

of course it will go up. They arent just going to increase some and leave the others. I reckon the cost of taxing over 3L will be near on if not over 2k if done every quarter, after the budget!

Im sorry but i really cant see them doing it. its the post 08 that will be hit.

Dont get me wrong il be fuming but i cant honestly see it happening.

listermint · 26-11-2012 1:51pm

bazz26 wrote: »

Lads, a tax by it's own definition is not about being fair or just, its about collecting revenue.

The argument for it being fair/unfair or that that post 2007 owners are getting away with murder has been done to death. One could also argue that if people didn't buy new low tax cars then VRT and VAT revenue would be down meaning that the Government would target the pre 2008 driver through even higher motor tax rates than already there, not to mention increasing the likes of USC or PAYE for everyone to make up the short fall.

I hate paying tax the same as the next guy but the reality is that which ever way you look at it there is no magic wond that will fix or make a tax "fair" to everyone.

It will, putting on fuel makes it fair.

use roads pay tax dont use roads dont pay tax.

Whats your definition of fair ?

livingthedream · 26-11-2012 1:57pm

^^ +1

bazz26 · 26-11-2012 2:07pm

listermint wrote: »

It will, putting on fuel makes it fair.

use roads pay tax dont use roads dont pay tax.

Whats your definition of fair ?

My reference to fair was in relation to motor tax as a set rate payment for vehicle ownership. Changing motor taxation from an ownerhip tax to a usage tax by putting it on fuel would probably be the more sensible solution but it's not going to happen anytime soon imo.

awec · 26-11-2012 2:24pm

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awec · 26-11-2012 2:25pm

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Voodoomelon · 26-11-2012 2:37pm

awec wrote: »

Imagine you bought a car in 2008 on the lowest tax band cause you could only afford 160 euro a year tax. You do a lot of miles. Imagine as of tomorrow you are changed to fuel-based tax, all of a sudden your tax bill is 1000 euro a year. You think THAT is fair?!

I laughed out loud reading that, thanks!

awec · 26-11-2012 2:39pm

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RobAMerc · 26-11-2012 3:05pm

awec wrote: »

People with cars with high tax rates moaning about the high tax rate really gets on my wick. Motor tax did not arrive overnight. You knew the car was high tax before you bought it. No point moaning that Joe round the corner pays half the amount of motor tax you do.

I think you should read the first post at least - my issue is with the fact I would be penalised for paying in instalments. Not just, particularly when the government should be helping folk pay the taxes they do have to incur.

Viper_JB · 26-11-2012 3:11pm

awec wrote: »

People with cars with high tax rates moaning about the high tax rate really gets on my wick. Motor tax did not arrive overnight. You knew the car was high tax before you bought it. No point moaning that Joe round the corner pays half the amount of motor tax you do.

I feel that after paying 1390 euro's of tax I have a right to complain, especially if it's increased, currently paying just slightly less then 10 times more then a post 08 520D, I'm driving a 3 litre diesel, I don't see why it should cost 10 times more then a 2 litre diesel to tax - I think for anyone that would be hard to justify or explain, but I'll not get into that as it's not the real issue here.

I knew the tax before I bought the car - it's when they keep increasing it year over year by more then any other tax bracket that's when it gets really ****ty.

listermint · 26-11-2012 3:13pm

awec wrote: »

People with cars with high tax rates moaning about the high tax rate really gets on my wick. Motor tax did not arrive overnight. You knew the car was high tax before you bought it. No point moaning that Joe round the corner pays half the amount of motor tax you do.

Of course i did, but who plans on them raising an already INCREDIBLY high tax each year irregardless of the cars age / value. It makes no legitimate sense. Literally none.

So I taxed the car today

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