BRUGGES V MANUTD BLOCKED ON SAORSAT!

lertsnim · 11-09-2015 5:22pm

If anyone in Europe could access the matches via satellite? Do you know what the footprint for Saorsat is? Saorview covers most of Northern Ireland also so why not block that too?

Sam Russell · 11-09-2015 7:00pm

total former wrote: »

Because the signal is not encrypted.

If anyone in Europe could access the matches on RTE via satellite, then it reduces the amount TV companies are going to want to pay for those rights in other countries.

People in Liverpool cannot receive Saorsat even with a 20 meter dish. You cannot receive Saorsat outside of the island of Ireland - that is why they use it unencrypted.

total former · 11-09-2015 7:29pm

Sam Russell wrote: »

People in Liverpool cannot receive Saorsat even with a 20 meter dish. You cannot receive Saorsat outside of the island of Ireland - that is why they use it unencrypted.

Yes, fair point. Just Northern Ireland then, but the principle is the same.

John896 · 11-09-2015 8:15pm

Sam Russell wrote: »

You cannot receive Saorsat outside of the island of Ireland - that is why they use it unencrypted.

That is not true here in Swansea i have had Saorsat since day one,it gives a great signal on a 1.2m dish.Even with heavy rain no loss of signal at all.Even someone in Cardiff 40 miles east of me can get it.

Oscarziggy · 11-09-2015 8:30pm

Sam Russell wrote: »

People in Liverpool cannot receive Saorsat even with a 20 meter dish. You cannot receive Saorsat outside of the island of Ireland - that is why they use it unencrypted.

Wrong !!
Pembrokeshire coast Saorsat on a 1.3m dish under all weather conditions as well as Saorview via a roof aerial ....
Regards

FRIENDO · 11-09-2015 9:01pm

It has been reported from the early days that like Soarview, Saorsat will also have an over spill, we have seen these reports on both boards and digital spy.

Saorsat reception has been reported in west/south Wales, Isle Mann and possibly south/west Scotland and so has Saorview.

However people in many parts of Wales, England and Scotland have also reported failing in being able to receive Saorsat reception.

In Wexford I receive perfect Freeview from Wales.

A good article to read on Saorsat coverage.
http://www.techtir.com/saortv/saorsat-coverage
"This why the Irish Spot may be able to be received in the Western Isles but not in most of Mainland UK."

STB. · 11-09-2015 9:11pm

I live in Wexford and I can get Radio Pembrokeshire on the car radio off 102.5fm, so its not unusual that Mount Leinster booms into Wales. Thats overspill for you and is an accepted margin in terms of rights.

The Saorsat DX reports are interesting, but in terms of this thread is not relevant to dropping the programming to appease BT. Enthusiasts (like myself!) with 1.2m dishes who have bought the required Ka LNB are not the benchmark. People with 60cm Sky dishes are, so the removal from 9E justification still does not make sense.

@ftakeith... its time to change your posting name. You have went to the darkside.

FRIENDO · 11-09-2015 9:11pm

ftakeith wrote: »

to protect the Irish fta saorview rights from pay tv

The overspill from saorview or saorsat would be very similar.
So how would stopping CL on Saorsat protect fta rights from pay tv?

Sam Russell · 12-09-2015 10:05am

John896 wrote: »

That is not true here in Swansea i have had Saorsat since day one,it gives a great signal on a 1.2m dish.Even with heavy rain no loss of signal at all.Even someone in Cardiff 40 miles east of me can get it.

Oscarziggy wrote: »

Wrong !!
Pembrokeshire coast Saorsat on a 1.3m dish under all weather conditions as well as Saorview via a roof aerial ....
Regards

I said Liverpool because I did not want a long post excepting the very western fringes of Wales, Scotland, and the tiniest bit of Western England. I would think that a decent UHF aerial at height with perhaps some amplification from those places could well receive the full Saorview signal as well, so why would you fork out for a 1.2M dish?

Oscarziggy · 12-09-2015 11:18am

Sam Russell wrote: »

People in Liverpool cannot receive Saorsat even with a 20 meter dish. You cannot receive Saorsat outside of the island of Ireland - that is why they use it unencrypted.

This is what I read from your post Sam --- I don't live on/in "the island of Ireland" but do receive Saorsat .
Regard forking out for a 1.2m dish --- I already had a steerable 1.3m prime focus dish so just bolted a KA lnb alongside the existing KU lnb .
Anyway we are off topic ....................
Regards

swoofer · 12-09-2015 4:30pm

now we know why game was blocked, rte were made aware that soarsat is possible outside of ireand. Lets see if they block game on wednesday, I bet they do.

STB. · 12-09-2015 4:46pm

swoofer wrote: »

now we know why game was blocked, rte were made aware that soarsat is possible outside of ireand. Lets see if they block game on wednesday, I bet they do.

Reception outside sat patterns is always possible with professional reception/non domestic gear.

This is not even a KU beam!

There is no justification. The margin would most definitely be acceptable as "overspill"

These beams are all different. The one covering Ireland is the DTH spot beam for Saorsat. The outer purple line is the cut off (no size dish will receive this).

swoofer · 12-09-2015 5:03pm

yeah but its covering the uk west coast, thats quite a few people and if i could get it in swansesi would stay stumpf. and bt could use that image as proof, RTE could be fined I think for infringing copyright. it will be interesting on wednesday

Sam Russell · 12-09-2015 7:15pm

swoofer wrote: »

yeah but its covering the uk west coast, thats quite a few people and if i could get it in swansesi would stay stumpf. and bt could use that image as proof, RTE could be fined I think for infringing copyright. it will be interesting on wednesday

By whom? This is minimum overspill. I have received UK Freeview in Bray. Wexford receives it on a piece of wet string. Saorsat is probably the most restricted satellite broadcast anywhere.

Oscarziggy · 12-09-2015 7:16pm

A quick look at the RTE site says ----
RTÉ 2 - 7:30 p.m. - Republic of Ireland Only
Dinamo Zagreb v Arsenal (Kick-off 7.45pm).

I'll lock all the doors !! ( I have no interest in football what so ever )

Regards

swoofer · 12-09-2015 10:04pm

http://www.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_punishment_for_copyright_infringement_in_the_UK

Sam Russell · 12-09-2015 10:07pm

swoofer wrote: »

http://www.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_punishment_for_copyright_infringement_in_the_UK

RTE are not in the UK.

TAFKAlawhec · 12-09-2015 11:42pm

Oscarziggy wrote: »

A quick look at the RTE site says ----
RTÉ 2 - 7:30 p.m. - Republic of Ireland Only
Dinamo Zagreb v Arsenal (Kick-off 7.45pm).

I'll lock all the doors !! ( I have no interest in football what so ever )

Regards

That doesn't necessarily mean a Saorsat blackout as ROI only could simply mean blackout on Sky for NI subscribers, Virgin for cable customers and those receiving RTÉ2 on the RNI multiplex. We'll have to wait and see though.

lertsnim · 13-09-2015 2:59pm

Oscarziggy wrote: »

A quick look at the RTE site says ----
RTÉ 2 - 7:30 p.m. - Republic of Ireland Only
Dinamo Zagreb v Arsenal (Kick-off 7.45pm).

I'll lock all the doors !! ( I have no interest in football what so ever )

Regards

On the website Republic of Ireland only refers to internet streaming.

FRIENDO · 13-09-2015 7:31pm

swoofer wrote: »

now we know why game was blocked, rte were made aware that soarsat is possible outside of ireand. Lets see if they block game on wednesday, I bet they do.

RTÉNL/2rn are well aware of the limitations of Saorsat and always have been.

I bet they don't

Well hope anyway.

gsni · 14-09-2015 5:08pm

To jump in here a bit, but if FIFA / UEFA say that players born anywhere in the Island of Ireland can play for Republic of Ireland their TV deals should match this belief and the Ireland games and the UEFA games should apply on an all Island basis.
Would this not be workable?

swoofer · 14-09-2015 9:40pm

FRIENDO · 14-09-2015 9:55pm

gsni wrote: »

To jump in here a bit, but if FIFA / UEFA say that players born anywhere in the Island of Ireland can play for Republic of Ireland their TV deals should match this belief and the Ireland games and the UEFA games should apply on an all Island basis.
Would this not be workable?

Yes it should be workable, I think TV broadcast has been discussed possibly under the GFA
I believe RTE/TG4 are broadcasted in the 6 Counties on the freeview platform
We should also have the BBC station on the Saorview/Saorsat platforms.
Programming/sports should not be blocked out on the Island.

However with the BBC's on Saorsat, it is advertised by Saorview that if you get Saorsat you can easily add the FTA BBC and ITV channels with another LNB.

The Saorsat approved Walker box also comes with SatFree software (Freesat), And the box works very well.

gsni · 16-09-2015 1:35pm

Legally it should be done due to the way Ireland are allowed to select players. All contracts and durastictions should be the same. It has nothing to do with bringing the BBC into it in a reciprocal arrangement.

icdg · 16-09-2015 2:30pm

That won't happen. Without getting into an argument about non broadcasting related matters (because it is off topic for this forum) these rights are UEFA's to sell and do not belong to a national Association. It is UEFA's competition and UEFA can sell the rights whatever way they like subject to the major events coverage laws (and in both the UK and Ireland the UEFA Champions League is not covered by these laws).

SeaFields · 16-09-2015 7:48pm

Well more of the same. Tonights champions league game has been blocked as well (and something particularly annoying, the ads between coverage are not blocked!)

None of my emails to RTE were answered so I think an email off to my local TD to see if they can get an offical answer.

FRIENDO · 16-09-2015 7:49pm

We have a problem!!

FRIENDO · 16-09-2015 7:52pm

SeaFields wrote: »

Well more of the same. Tonights champions league game has been blocked as well (and something particularly annoying, the ads between coverage are not blocked!)

None of my emails to RTE were answered so I think an email off to my local TD to see if they can get an offical answer.

Yes, I will also start the emails, this is very annoying

gerry sat · 16-09-2015 8:14pm

All,

A reply from the top :

Hi Gerry,

Please advise customers who have questions on this to contact RTÉ at 01-2083434 or info@rte.ie .

I have asked the question, but I'm advised that it is an issue that is outside the control of SAORVIEW and is a matter for RTÉ.

Best regards,

TAFKAlawhec · 16-09-2015 9:59pm

FRIENDO wrote: »

We have a problem!!

That's the exact same image that appears on RTÉ2 on the RNI multiplex up here for blocked content. And also again, the commercial breaks aren't blanked out either.

Just to show, the message from the RNI MUX on E30 from Brougher Mountain, while watching it in the clear in HD from the 1st Saorview multiplex on Truskmore on E53.

dublinman1990 · 16-09-2015 10:27pm

Oh holy Jesus. I feel really sorry for all viewers who have Saorsat now and who had spent their hard earned money on getting that system into their own homes.

I really am shocked that this has happened yet again. RTE have a lot of questions to answer for regarding this issue for a small number of viewers who are fans of this tournament.

Would there be a case to say to RTE that this issue could count as False Advertising under current laws here. They have made this product as a replacement for those viewers who cannot get access to Saorview under any circumstances. When Saorview was launched in 2011 by RTE and former Minister Pat Rabbite. We were given the impression that unlimited amounts of sports coverage inevitably was going to be shown to viewers who have either Saorview or Saorsat in which both of them are 100% available and FTA to Irish audiences all over the country.

And now when people who spend their hard earned cash to obtain Saorsat; because of not getting access to Saorview from where they live; they are effectively given a second-rate product by some pathetic backhanders over in Montrose. In effect they are not given the full package of what they asked for and it seems petty from RTE to provide this shoddy service to a small section of the Irish viewing public.

If this sort of crap was happening on Saorview as well there would be serious uproar who access this service in the hundreds of thousands all across Ireland.

ftakeith · 16-09-2015 10:51pm

dublinman1990 wrote: »

Oh holy Jesus. I feel really sorry for all viewers who have Saorsat now and who had spent their hard earned money on getting that system into their own homes.

I really am shocked that this has happened yet again. RTE have a lot of questions to answer for regarding this issue for a small number of viewers who are fans of this tournament.

Would there be a case to say to RTE that this issue could count as False Advertising under current laws here. They have made this product as a replacement for those viewers who cannot get access to Saorview under any circumstances. When Saorview was launched in 2011 by RTE and former Minister Pat Rabbite. We were given the impression that unlimited amounts of sports coverage inevitably was going to be shown to viewers who have either Saorview or Saorsat in which both of them are 100% available and FTA to Irish audiences all over the country.

And now when people who spend their hard earned cash to obtain Saorsat; because of not getting access to Saorview from where they live; they are effectively given a second-rate product by some pathetic backhanders over in Montrose. In effect they are not given the full package of what they asked for and it seems petty from RTE to provide this shoddy service to a small section of the Irish viewing public.

If this sort of crap was happening on Saorview as well there would be serious uproar who access this service in the hundreds of thousands all across Ireland.

This is also why BT Sport showcase is not on freesat

kooga · 16-09-2015 11:33pm

ftakeith wrote: »

This is also why BT Sport showcase is not on freesat

Fair point

kooga · 17-09-2015 11:12am

anyway

rang rte in cork and was passed on to rte in dublin

rang rte in dublin receptionist told me to ring saorview. I know the thread elsewhere has a saorview response. anyway took my details and was told i will be rung back.................lets wait and see.

ftakeith · 17-09-2015 11:51am

kooga wrote: »

anyway

rang rte in cork and was passed on to rte in dublin

rang rte in dublin receptionist told me to ring saorview. I know the thread elsewhere has a saorview response. anyway took my details and was told i will be rung back.................lets wait and see.

it only affect 2,000 households

dbcool · 17-09-2015 12:50pm

Thank you for your email.Due to rights restrictions, RTÉ's coverage of the Champions League cannot be carried on Saorsat. RTÉ regrets this unavoidable limitation to the Saorsat service.

Best,
Abi

RTÉ Information Office

Email: info@rte.ie Website: www.rte.ie

SeaFields · 17-09-2015 1:58pm

I suppose my concern is that this won't just be confined to this particular sports event. There are others here far better versed in the subjest that me....can ye see it being more frequent? I.e. extending to TV series, other sports? I know this would be mere speculation but would like to hear other views?

galtee boy · 17-09-2015 2:10pm

TAFKAlawhec wrote: »

That's the exact same image that appears on RTÉ2 on the RNI multiplex up here for blocked content. And also again, the commercial breaks aren't blanked out either.

Just to show, the message from the RNI MUX on E30 from Brougher Mountain, while watching it in the clear in HD from the 1st Saorview multiplex on Truskmore on E53.

Off topic slightly, but I like the EPG on that box of yours, showing channel logo etc. Can I ask what box it is ?

kooga · 17-09-2015 2:18pm

the only other rights issue will be ireland's autumn rugby internationals i know it won't apply this year. but sky sports have the uk rights.

TAFKAlawhec · 19-09-2015 11:45pm

galtee boy wrote: »

Off topic slightly, but I like the EPG on that box of yours, showing channel logo etc. Can I ask what box it is ?

It's from a Vu+ Duo 2 receiver, but the OSD itself is the standard skin of OpenVix firmware which is available on many Enigma2 receivers. The channel logos come from a 'picon' which in my case are downloaded from a creator called Oktus and manually linked if required (as needed for terrestrial channels, as Oktus only has automatic linking for satellite when downloaded).

TAFKAlawhec · 19-09-2015 11:57pm

kooga wrote: »

Fair point

No one here knows for certain that's the case. In previous seasons there were no problems for RTÉ on Saorsat or for ITV on Astra, maybe something has changed? However it's still the case that ZDF in Germany, TRT in Turkey & NTV in Russia show Champions League games FTA across Europe (at 19, 42 & 46 east with ZDF SD also on 13 east) with the first two available in HD.

One big problem however is that Saorsat was conceived mainly with the goal of offering a FTA platform for Irish TV stations in the Ka Band that Ku Band footprints can't achieve, with a spillover not that much bigger than that of the terrestrial network. If channels on the Saorsat platform end up still having problems with copyright clearance which can't be done any better at present with current technology without encryption, it must be worth asking if the cost & technical benefit of Saorsat vs. a FTV card scheme on 28 east is of a significant difference to 2RN.

galtee boy · 20-09-2015 11:00am

TAFKAlawhec wrote: »

It's from a Vu+ Duo 2 receiver, but the OSD itself is the standard skin of OpenVix firmware which is available on many Enigma2 receivers. The channel logos come from a 'picon' which in my case are downloaded from a creator called Oktus and manually linked if required (as needed for terrestrial channels, as Oktus only has automatic linking for satellite when downloaded).

Thank you, sounds complicated though !

FRIENDO · 20-09-2015 8:05pm

TAFKAlawhec wrote: »

No one here knows for certain that's the case. In previous seasons there were no problems for RTÉ on Saorsat or for ITV on Astra, maybe something has changed? However it's still the case that ZDF in Germany, TRT in Turkey & NTV in Russia show Champions League games FTA across Europe (at 19, 42 & 46 east with ZDF SD also on 13 east) with the first two available in HD.

One big problem however is that Saorsat was conceived mainly with the goal of offering a FTA platform for Irish TV stations in the Ka Band that Ku Band footprints can't achieve, with a spillover not that much bigger than that of the terrestrial network. If channels on the Saorsat platform end up still having problems with copyright clearance which can't be done any better at present with current technology without encryption, it must be worth asking if the cost & technical benefit of Saorsat vs. a FTV card scheme on 28 east is of a significant difference to 2RN.

Im starting to think that Saorsat is going to be a failure.
If CL games are blocked over rights, well whats stopping English or Austrilian soaps being blocked or US programming such as homeland being blocked, we also must look at possibly GAA or International sporting fixtures being blocked as Sky or BT may have the rights for these in the UK.
Well hell why not block movies as ITV or BBC have the rights.

Or why dont RTE and what ever govt department, grow a pair of Balls and fight this.

I have also written to RTE about CL games being blocked on Saorsat and got the same standard "Fob off" reply.

TAFKAlawhec · 21-09-2015 12:06am

galtee boy wrote: »

Thank you, sounds complicated though !

I've likely made it sound more complicated than what it really is because Linux-based receiver running Enigma2 firmware can be customised to a great extent (though it can take time to learn its ways beyond the basics). OpenVix just happens to be a popular front-end firmware variant for operating some popular Enigma2 receivers that strikes a good balance between ease of use & technical control (Black Hole is another popular one, though that's limited to Vu+ receivers nowadays) while for the station logos, the likes of OpenVix can get them in their plugin downloads section - or in my case, just download them from the web, upload them to the picon folder of the usb data stick on the receiver and in most cases are good to go.

TAFKAlawhec · 21-09-2015 12:21am

FRIENDO wrote: »

Im starting to think that Saorsat is going to be a failure.
If CL games are blocked over rights, well whats stopping English or Austrilian soaps being blocked or US programming such as homeland being blocked, we also must look at possibly GAA or International sporting fixtures being blocked as Sky or BT may have the rights for these in the UK.
Well hell why not block movies as ITV or BBC have the rights.

Or why dont RTE and what ever govt department, grow a pair of Balls and fight this.

I have also written to RTE about CL games being blocked on Saorsat and got the same standard "Fob off" reply.

Well as a northerner I'm not really in a position to help out on this matter. on a political basis. But to the best of my knowledge the only sticking point seems to be Northern Ireland for Saorsat coverage - the remaining visible overspill into Britain doesn't appear to reach any major population centres except maybe Swansea or Cardiff. It's also worth wondering why it can still be shown on RTÉ 2 on Sky, given that I can assume that many Irish working in Britain will have some sort of Irish Sky subscription set up over there and is likely to be more prevalent that Saorsat reception.

Does BT's Champions League coverage on Sky & UPC in the south get blocked out for any games that are shown on TV3 and/or RTÉ 2?

lertsnim · 21-09-2015 4:12am

TAFKAlawhec wrote: »

Does BT's Champions League coverage on Sky & UPC in the south get blocked out for any games that are shown on TV3 and/or RTÉ 2?

No. RTÉ and TV3 do not have exclusive coverage of their games anymore. Setanta Sports has the rights to all Champions League games so BT coverage is shown as part of Setantas pack.

icdg · 21-09-2015 7:12am

FRIENDO wrote: »

Im starting to think that Saorsat is going to be a failure.
.

I don't think it was ever intended to be a success. it has zero marketing and is barely mentioned outside of the Saorview website. It's only function was to cover RTE's back when they decided not to upgrade certain relays. Even RTE admit that its target audience is 1-2% of the population and I would wager that a large portion of that 1-2% have Sky.

Lenton Lane · 21-09-2015 9:09am

icdg wrote: »

I don't think it was ever intended to be a success. it has zero marketing and is barely mentioned outside of the Saorview website. It's only function was to cover RTE's back when they decided not to upgrade certain relays. Even RTE admit that its target audience is 1-2% of the population and I would wager that a large portion of that 1-2% have Sky.

And the only audience who could really benefit from and appreciate Saorsat are excluded because of the tight footprint over Ireland and a bare part of the western British coast.

Carawaystick · 25-09-2015 2:49pm

https://www.saorview.ie/about-saorview/saorsat/ wrote:

Consumer Advice

...

There are always people who will try to take advantage of people on the back of something new, like the change to digital television.
...

If you think you’ve been deceived or misled in relation to the purchase of digital TV receiving equipment, for example a TV, set-top box, aerial or satellite dish or the installation of any of this equipment, contact the National Consumer Agency on 1890 432 432 or 01 402 5555.

The National Consumer Agency has prepared independent information on digital television for consumers.

I wonder how the NCA would feel about complaints about rté...
A Pontias Pilate washing of hands I'd imagine...

ftakeith · 25-09-2015 3:50pm

Carawaystick wrote: »

I wonder how the NCA would feel about complaints about rté...
A Pontias Pilate washing of hands I'd imagine...

NCA are useless

Contact Comreg as they will investigate if possible under their remit as the telecoms regulator

BT ireland/eircom made a mess of about 4 weeks of not connecting a phone line
contacted comreg and they told me the situation will be sorted in 2 weeks, this monday is 2 weeks and Sky are will connect sky fibre broadband

BRUGGES V MANUTD BLOCKED ON SAORSAT!

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