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PopePalpatine wrote: »
its pretty disrespectful to the swastika
, compared to whats happening in Paris tonight people losing their sh1t over this doesnt really hit my outrage meter. it could be trolling or an individual student having a nervous breakdown A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer
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What's happening on US campuses is mind blowing, there are advocacy groups who are actually asking for segregation based on race, but I guess that now its for the "right" reasons a "POC only" coffee shop is just fine.
http://claremontindependent.com/safe-spaces-segregate-the-claremont-colleges/
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What's happening on US campuses is mind blowing, there are advocacy groups who are actually asking for segregation based on race, but I guess that now its for the "right" reasons a "POC only" coffee shop is just fine.
http://claremontindependent.com/safe-spaces-segregate-the-claremont-colleges/
They've gone nuts altogether.0 -
What's happening on US campuses is mind blowing, there are advocacy groups who are actually asking for segregation based on race, but I guess that now its for the "right" reasons a "POC only" coffee shop is just fine.
http://claremontindependent.com/safe-spaces-segregate-the-claremont-colleges/
these people are going to be a menace to society when they enter the workforce. its about the third time this week I have come across something along the lines of resurrecting something from the past but for different reasons.A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer
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What's happening on US campuses is mind blowing, there are advocacy groups who are actually asking for segregation based on race, but I guess that now its for the "right" reasons a "POC only" coffee shop is just fine.
http://claremontindependent.com/safe-spaces-segregate-the-claremont-colleges/
I have to say that I don't really mind this at all.
If people want to have an event for folks meeting A, B or C criteria and there is a privately owned venue that is willing to provide facilities for that then fair enough.
However, the right to do that should be available to all. So, if I wanted to start up a "White Men Only" night with the support of the local pub then nobody should object to that. If the "White Men Only" day was to be held in the park then no, not acceptable.
It should only be a problem if meetings like this are intended to promote hatred or to encourage people to go out there are cause damage in the community. Then it would be a problem.
Of course, why anyone would want to live inside an echo chamber or "safe space" is a bit of a mystery to me. I'd imagine that it would turn you into a really miserable person.
I suppose that US students don't really see the contradiction in being able to afford further education and claiming to be oppressed. I put it down to being young and inexperienced, to be honest.
I'd say that there is a bigger gulf between a PoC attending University and a PoC living in Americas poorest neighborhoods than there would be between rich people of color and rich white people. This fact seems to be lost on a lot of these students. It's kind of sad.0 -
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PopePalpatine wrote: »I have to wonder...what's the rationale behind "safe spaces"? I've never seen them brought up in a way that hasn't made a strawman out of them.
Righteo then, seeing as you've asked.
I've been involved with a couple of transgender and other LGBT groups, have run support groups, etc. When hosting a support or even social group, these generally were safe spaces, they were private and confidential, as is understandable when you've got people want to be able to talk about extremely sensitive and personal issues that they couldn't speak about elsewhere. The rationale is basically that you are free to talk about things and they wouldn't get repeated outside of that space, maybe a person is still questioning or haven't come out, the group can be their only outlet for that. Sometimes people need a space where they're free to talk, somewhere that's safe.
Another issue, which probably isn't going to be obvious to most people, but is a serious concern if you ever organize a trans support group, is if you're not discreet, if you're not careful to say that this is a group for trans people only and enforce that, you start to get creepers and fetishists show up. There's a lot of guys out there who've got a thing for transgender women, and some of them are seriously creepy and pushy, and being on the recieving end of that sort of attention, it's not something I ever wish to experience again. When it's in a space where people are trying to quite frankly bare secrets that they've kept buried for years, you do not want some asshole propositioning someone, telling them they'd look sexy in fishnets and knee high boots, and how they should get drinks... and that's mild. When that happens, people won't come to these groups, it'll be dead in the water and may not recover.
Try and imagine if you will, a young trans girl trying to get support because she has family or friends that aren't accepting, and some guy tries to convince her to come to some seedy 'adult cinema' with him. If you can picture that, you can understand why a safe space is needed. Unlike whatever idea some people seem to have of safe spaces, it is not about curtailing anyone's speech, but enabling it, providing somewhere where people are free to speak about things that they otherwise could not. That is the rationale.
Hope that helps.0 -
Righteo then, seeing as you've asked.
I've been involved with a couple of transgender and other LGBT groups, have run support groups, etc. When hosting a support or even social group, these generally were safe spaces, they were private and confidential, as is understandable when you've got people want to be able to talk about extremely sensitive and personal issues that they couldn't speak about elsewhere. The rationale is basically that you are free to talk about things and they wouldn't get repeated outside of that space, maybe a person is still questioning or haven't come out, the group can be their only outlet for that. Sometimes people need a space where they're free to talk, somewhere that's safe.
Another issue, which probably isn't going to be obvious to most people, but is a serious concern if you ever organize a trans support group, is if you're not discreet, if you're not careful to say that this is a group for trans people only and enforce that, you start to get creepers and fetishists show up. There's a lot of guys out there who've got a thing for transgender women, and some of them are seriously creepy and pushy, and being on the recieving end of that sort of attention, it's not something I ever wish to experience again. When it's in a space where people are trying to quite frankly bare secrets that they've kept buried for years, you do not want some asshole propositioning someone, telling them they'd look sexy in fishnets and knee high boots, and how they should get drinks... and that's mild. When that happens, people won't come to these groups, it'll be dead in the water and may not recover.
Try and imagine if you will, a young trans girl trying to get support because she has family or friends that aren't accepting, and some guy tries to convince her to come to some seedy 'adult cinema' with him. If you can picture that, you can understand why a safe space is needed. Unlike whatever idea some people seem to have of safe spaces, it is not about curtailing anyone's speech, but enabling it, providing somewhere where people are free to speak about things that they otherwise could not. That is the rationale.
Hope that helps.
(Not that I'm comparing them directly) but it seems a bit like allowing your party animal, pisshead friend to come along to your alcoholics support group.
I don't think anyone sensible has any problem with anyone having discriminatory clubs in principal - they flush their logic down the toilet when it comes to discriminating against minorties of whatever sort, but the idea of having a private meeting place for people of similar backgrounds, experiences or whatever so that they have a unique opportunity to thrash their problems out seems generally fair to people.
It's a total bastardisation of that idea and missing the point of both it, and areas of public discourse like Universities, when people try and make something like a University campus a safe space. When people bandy around "PC gone mad" or "SJW" that's the sort of thing they often have in mind.
It's mistaking being allowed to seek out your own space with enforcing one on everyone else.0 -
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On Monday, Islamic apostate Maryam Namazie spoke at Golsdmith University to the university's Atheist, Secularist and Humanist Society. Unfortunately, she ran into predictable bother with Goldsmiths Islamic Society (ISOC) involving allegations of intimidation and violence, a violently disrupted talk, while in fact suggesting that the university should be a "safe space":
http://freethoughtblogs.com/maryamnamazie/2015/12/01/goldsmith-isoc/
http://www.londonstudent.coop/death-threats-goldsmiths-speaker-maryam-namazie/
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/12029884/Human-rights-campaigner-heckled-at-blasphemy-lecture.html
https://www.facebook.com/shabnam.assadollahi/posts/10207931965036007
The BBC were putting the boot into Maryam as well
A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer
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Have a read of the burka thread - a significant portion of the population believe that wearing the burka is, in fact, a symbol of freedom.
Funny that - I'm no fan of the burka, but I was under the impression that if I can walk down the street wearing 20 safety pins piercing my face, someone else can cover their face entirely if they want to. Of course, I wouldn't get into some establishments with the safety pin look, just as some establishments require people to show their faces.
Is that too "PC"? Are my liberal leftie notions showing too much? 0 -
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