Left Wing Government within our grasp

PeakOutput · 19-04-2010 11:24pm

Nodin wrote: »

Just to clarify - are you stating that it was "union loving" and "welfare boosting" that is responsible for the financial crisis?

nope a global bubble bursting created it and giving everything the unions and social welfare people wanted to them during the boom with no thought of the consequences is a significant part of what is making it harder to pull ourselves back into the black

CoalBucket · 19-04-2010 11:55pm

PeakOutput wrote: »

nope, not yet it hasnt it has been severely damaged but it is far from destroyed

Tell that to the 435,000 on the dole or the people who have emigrated to try and get work.
Tell that to the people who are in negative equity and are trying to pay mortgages to banks who can have their negative equity paid for by the government through Nama.
Tell that to the tax payer who sees their money propping up Anglo Irish to the tune of 42 Bn. And who will see their tax being poured into banks to fill massive losses on said bubble and to pay for Fingelton, Seanie Fitz, Richie Boucher et al pensions.

Ya zippidy do da the country is far from destroyed.

Michaelrsh · 20-04-2010 12:00am

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2-zzmCmMVI

Left wing eh?

PeakOutput · 20-04-2010 12:04am

CoalBucket wrote: »

Tell that to the 435,000 on the dole or the people who have emigrated to try and get work.
Tell that to the people who are in negative equity and are trying to pay mortgages to banks who can have their negative equity paid for by the government through Nama.
Tell that to the tax payer who sees their money propping up Anglo Irish to the tune of 42 Bn. And who will see their tax being poured into banks to fill massive losses on said bubble and to pay for Fingelton, Seanie Fitz, Richie Boucher et al pensions.

Ya zippidy do da the country is far from destroyed.

i will

individual cases are very sad i feel sorry for them its a hard road back

it still dosnt mean the country is destroyed, we are still far better off than we were 30 or even 25 years ago

CoalBucket · 20-04-2010 12:48am

PeakOutput wrote: »

i will

individual cases are very sad i feel sorry for them its a hard road back

it still dosnt mean the country is destroyed, we are still far better off than we were 30 or even 25 years ago

http://www.indexmundi.com/ireland/unemployment_rate.html
http://archives.tcm.ie/irishexaminer/2002/01/18/story21370.asp

The highest unemployment rate was the 17.29 % rate reached in 1985, the current 12% is comparable with most years when you consider emigration. Either way nothing to be shouting from the roof tops as a great achievement in how far we have progressed in 30 years.

The bailout of finacial institutions in the 1980s i.e. the insurance levy to bail out the AIB/ ICI is miniscule in comparison to the financial abyss that the country faces into today.

Admittedly living standards have increased since the 1980s however there is not a country in the developed world that has not achieved that.
I would also suggest that the EU would have had a major influence in the increase in living standards in this country as opposed to succesive Fianna Fail governments.

Nodin · 20-04-2010 11:25am

PeakOutput wrote: »

nope a global bubble bursting created it and giving everything the unions and social welfare people wanted to them during the boom with no thought of the consequences is a significant part of what is making it harder to pull ourselves back into the black

So there was no property bubble then? No problems with a lack of regulation of banking?

PeakOutput · 20-04-2010 11:35am

Nodin wrote: »

So there was no property bubble then? No problems with a lack of regulation of banking?

there was of course they are all related it still has nothing to do with the debate at hand which is the far left offer no workable / affordable / sustainable solutions

things were working fine until the regulation stopped being enforced this all fed the property bubble which we might have gotten a few more years out of had the global markets not melted

a center goverment leaning to the left socially and the right economically is what is needed but assuming thats not available the next best thing is a center right goverment going far in either direction will lead to ruin for different reasons

Permabear · 20-04-2010 11:39am

This post has been deleted.

Nodin · 20-04-2010 11:56am

PeakOutput wrote: »

there was of course they are all related it still has nothing to do with the debate at hand which is the far left offer no workable / affordable / sustainable solutions

But the "far left" aren't in any position to get into Government, and no, the Irish Labour party are not in any way a "far left" party.

PeakOutput wrote: »

things were working fine until the regulation stopped being enforced this all fed the property bubble which we might have gotten a few more years out of had the global markets not melted

"stopped"? When did they start then? There was not only a lack of regulation, there was a lack of legislation by which banks and a great deal of the property market and rezoning etc could be regulated.

I'm somewhat suprised you are under the impression that a few more years of a bubble would be a good thing.

Donegalfella wrote:

No, but its union-loving,

Doesn't seem to be much love there at the moment. Or much "like".

Donegalfella wrote:

welfare-boosting policies ,

They cut "welfare", didn't they? Or did they....What precisely do you mean by "welfare"...?

Donegalfella wrote:

which has left us with an absolutely catastrophic fiscal deficit.,

And not the global downturn, and the collapse of the local property bubble and it's fallout?

PeakOutput · 20-04-2010 12:13pm

Nodin wrote: »

the Irish Labour party are not in any way a "far left" party.

well thats a matter of opinon

"stopped"? When did they start then? There was not only a lack of regulation, there was a lack of legislation by which banks and a great deal of the property market and rezoning etc could be regulated.

it stopped when someone from inside the industry was appointed regulator of it. neary was a friend to the bankers but did a failry good job or regulating other industries like the insurance industry and improved standards in that business significantly, his mistake was trusting his friends in the banking industry more than he trusted the leaders in the other industries

I'm somewhat suprised you are under the impression that a few more years of a bubble would be a good thing.

i never said that

Nodin · 20-04-2010 12:19pm

PeakOutput wrote: »

well thats a matter of opinon

Not really. "centre left"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labour_Party_(Ireland)

PeakOutput wrote: »

i never said that

Then why state

things were working fine until the regulation stopped being enforced this all fed the property bubble which we might have gotten a few more years out of had the global markets not melted

PeakOutput · 20-04-2010 12:29pm

Nodin wrote: »

Not really. "centre left"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labour_Party_(Ireland)

ok ill just refer to them as left wing from now on so, if they get into power we would have a left wing party in power which the op proposes is a good thing and which i disagree with. if they get into power into coalition with say a right wing party like fg we would have a relatively centrist which is a good thing

things were working fine until the regulation stopped being enforced this all fed the property bubble which we might have gotten a few more years out of had the global markets not melted

things were working fine until regulation affectively stopped, around 2004/2005 and the outlandish spending went crazy. the second part of my sentence wasnt meant to imply it was a good thing it was just meant to state a fact

Permabear · 20-04-2010 12:44pm

This post has been deleted.

the_syco · 20-04-2010 12:50pm

CoalBucket wrote: »

The bailout of finacial institutions in the 1980s i.e. the insurance levy to bail out the AIB/ ICI is miniscule in comparison to the financial abyss that the country faces into today.

FG did this bailout.

=-=

The shinners won't get into power unless they go hardline nationlist anti-immigrant such as Germany once went.

With Labour wanting to give the public sector rasies, when people int he private sector loosing their jobs, I hope this won't happen. Can't see it happening.

FG... need a new leader. One with balls. They must have at least one f**king nutjob.

FF... can see them getting relected, as the rest are a shower of useless cnuts - better the devil you know.

steelcityblues · 20-04-2010 12:57pm

the_syco wrote: »

FG did this bailout.

=-=

The shinners won't get into power unless they go hardline nationlist anti-immigrant such as Germany once went.

With Labour wanting to give the public sector rasies, when people int he private sector loosing their jobs, I hope this won't happen. Can't see it happening.

FG... need a new leader. One with balls. They must have at least one f**king nutjob.

FF... can see them getting relected, as the rest are a shower of useless cnuts - better the devil you know.

More importantly, when will there be a real pro-private worker, small government, no to an increased Europe type of party that the PDs could have been.

FG, under the gormless head prefect, certainly don't cater to that type of voter!

CoalBucket · 20-04-2010 1:00pm

It really is a waste of money spending it on social welfare. The country is going to the wall when we have to spend tax keeping the unemployed and the single mothers etc.
It makes me sick that we can't spend more money on tax breaks for the horse industry or for property developers.
I can't believe that people have to pay extra tax on a second house, and every other property they own it's a disgrace.
How dare people on the dole be expecting the government to just hand over the princely some of €196 a week. The state just can't afford it. We need the money to pay to bail out the banks and to continue to provide the much needed tax breaks that sustain society.
I'm definitely voting FF in the next election. If those social concious politicians get in who knows what might happen.

Nodin · 20-04-2010 1:01pm

I was fairly sure we hammered out before about the stark division between higher level civil servants and the majority....

Donegalfella wrote:

Regardless, Fianna Fáil is the party that increased public-sector salaries by 67 percent between 1999 and 2006. By 2008, the average public servant was earning over €50,000. I'd say there was a lot of love there.

...but that still isn't the cause of the current crisis.

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

So "welfare" means "The dole" according to you? I'm glad we clarified that.

Do you think it would be possible for everyone on "The Dole" to live on 100 Euro a week?

Nodin · 20-04-2010 1:03pm

steelcityblues wrote: »

More importantly, when will there be a real pro-private worker, small government, no to an increased Europe type of party that the PDs could have been.

Yes, because that small regulation, 'away yez go lads' approach worked so well before. Well, it did for some anyway.

PeakOutput · 20-04-2010 1:06pm

Nodin wrote: »

...but that still isn't the cause of the current crisis.

no but its as a result of the excess's that became rampant during the boom, these excess's ow need to be stopped

the causes of the crisis are a different matter

Do you think it would be possible for everyone on "The Dole" to live on 100 Euro a week?

the way things are now, no they couldnt

with a properly reformed welfare system yes they could, the cash in hand they get once a week or however often it is is only one part of the welfare system.

PeakOutput · 20-04-2010 1:07pm

Nodin wrote: »

Yes, because that small regulation, 'away yez go lads' approach worked so well before. Well, it did for some anyway.

thats not what he said stop putting words in peoples mouths

small goverment does not equal low regulation

CoalBucket · 20-04-2010 1:08pm

the_syco wrote: »

FG did this bailout.

Yes FG did that bailout, the point I was making, if you didn't completely ingore it, is that the state has been threatened by the failure of a bank one more that one occasion exept todays scenario is gigantuam. It was not to say FF already had bailed a bank out it was to show the gravity of the situation that FF have put the country in.

Permabear · 20-04-2010 1:20pm

This post has been deleted.

the_syco · 20-04-2010 1:52pm

CoalBucket wrote: »

Yes FG did that bailout

Cool. I've seen a few people thinking that it was FF.

CoalBucket wrote: »

the point I was making, if you didn't completely ingore it, is that the state has been threatened by the failure of a bank one more that one occasion exept todays scenario is gigantuam. It was not to say FF already had bailed a bank out it was to show the gravity of the situation that FF have put the country in.

Fun thing is, in the 80's I'm led to believe that when the banks were bailed out, there was nothing in it for anyone, but when FF bailed out the banks, they must pay back a percentage as ell the loan? May be wrong.

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Correction. They can live on that in England. Not here. Well, not here, now: maybe in a few years. The government would have to bring in a law against the paddy tax first.

Permabear · 20-04-2010 1:56pm

This post has been deleted.

irishh_bob · 20-04-2010 2:33pm

steelcityblues wrote: »

More importantly, when will there be a real pro-private worker, small government, no to an increased Europe type of party that the PDs could have been.

FG, under the gormless head prefect, certainly don't cater to that type of voter!

were fine gael to become that party , the sleeping giant that is the private sector and former ( now unemployed ) private sector voter would rush to them in droves , thus ensuring eamon ( restore boom time public sector wages ) gilmore would be nowhere near the levers of power , such is the unprecedented situation we find ourselves in and such is the unprecedented flow in support away from fianna fail , it should be easy for fine gael to secure an overall majority , they are doing something seriously wrong

steelcityblues · 20-04-2010 2:37pm

irishh_bob wrote: »

were fine gael to become that party , the sleeping giant that is the private sector and former ( now unemployed ) private sector voter would rush to them in droves , thus ensuring eamon ( restore boom time public sector wages ) gilmore would be nowhere near the levers of power , such is the unprecedented situation we find ourselves in and such is the unprecedented flow in support away from fianna fail , it should be easy for fine gael to secure an overall majority , they are doing something seriously wrong

That would be all very well if they stopped using Labour as their get out of jail card for forming a government! I will almost guarantee that FG will go down the same route once again, post next election.

Nodin · 20-04-2010 4:01pm

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Yet it's still significantly higher.

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Some cuts have been made, doubtless more will in future if nessecary. Given the relative silence of the last while, it seems that the reality of the situation has percolated home at the top at least.

skearon · 20-04-2010 9:09pm

dvpower wrote: »

Leading a government is another kettle of fish.

Such as making real decisions as opposed to spouting populist nonsense

anymore · 21-04-2010 8:34pm

We have left wing government already !
Benchmarking, Social Partnership and even the bizzare Socuial and Affordable Housing are the very essence of Left Wing Government. Additionally, our Quango systme is simply a method for enriching the 'Apparachiks' Where in the world would retired teachers benefit from productivity payments negotiated after they had retired ?
Stailn would have been amused !

GarlicBread · 27-04-2010 8:50am

anymore wrote: »

We have left wing government already !
QUOTE]

Err, no we dont. We've had non stop right wing governments for 90 years and the place is a mess after it. You would want to be stark raving mad to claim otherwise.

A left way out of the economic disaster would be the least damaging to society.

PeakOutput · 27-04-2010 9:31am

GarlicBread wrote: »

Err, no we dont. We've had non stop right wing governments for 90 years and the place is a mess after it. You would want to be stark raving mad to claim otherwise.

ha ha i think you should go visit an actual right wing country before making ridicolous comments

on a european scale we are right of center(a good bit right) on a world wide scale we are left of center(a good bit left)

its a decent enough position as far as politics goes imo and to claim that we are in a mess compared to 90 years ago is just nonsensical we arent even in a mess compared to 20 years ago. we have had a major set back and alot of damage has been done and trust has been lost but we are still in decent shape 'going forward' and will be in even better shape when the rest of the measures to fix the country are taken.

Dob74 · 27-04-2010 3:57pm

PeakOutput wrote: »

ha ha i think you should go visit an actual right wing country before making ridicolous comments

on a european scale we are right of center(a good bit right) on a world wide scale we are left of center(a good bit left)

its a decent enough position as far as politics goes imo and to claim that we are in a mess compared to 90 years ago is just nonsensical we arent even in a mess compared to 20 years ago. we have had a major set back and alot of damage has been done and trust has been lost but we are still in decent shape 'going forward' and will be in even better shape when the rest of the measures to fix the country are taken.

We have a left wing government if you read the indo.
What country would give taxpayer money to private fee paying schools?
What country would not nationalise bankrupt banks instead letting the taxpayer bail them out for free?

This is a nasty right wing country. We have no sence of fairplay.
We dont believe in hard work. Its just, I'll pull a stroke for you and you vote for me.
Time to rid ourselves of two right wing parties. One is enough.

PeakOutput · 27-04-2010 5:09pm

Dob74 wrote: »

We have a left wing government if you read the indo.

well i dont so what are you talking about?

we are effectively economically right and socially left. stating we have an evil right wing goverment is simply factually false

We dont believe in hard work. Its just, I'll pull a stroke for you and you vote for me.

i agree with you there thats the political system in this country though it has nothign to do with the parties, that is how the citizens act when it comes to elections is it any wonder the type of gob****es that get elected?

irishh_bob · 27-04-2010 8:59pm

PeakOutput wrote: »

well i dont so what are you talking about?

we are effectively economically right and socially left. stating we have an evil right wing goverment is simply factually false

i agree with you there thats the political system in this country though it has nothign to do with the parties, that is how the citizens act when it comes to elections is it any wonder the type of gob****es that get elected?

surely you meant to say we are economically left and socially right

PeakOutput · 27-04-2010 9:03pm

irishh_bob wrote: »

surely you meant to say we are economically left and socially right

leaving aside the last year, i meant what i said

sron · 27-04-2010 10:20pm

Although I'd be happy to see a proper leftist government, they rarely appear in countries as rich as ours. In a country where most are middle-class, it's not beneficial for them to elect socialist types, so they wont do it.

GarlicBread · 28-04-2010 4:40am

Well said Dob74, you hit the nail on the head with that one.

One of the main reasons why irish people cant distinguish between left and right is because they spend 14 years in the hands of right wing fundamentalists before they even get to vote! Then when they do vote they just auto think the left are the bad guys. On top of that then you have FF and FG basically getting fed votes from the system which they dominate. And then the media that perpetuates it further.

A Left Coalition could -

-Seize the banks and redo the nama mess to fit the needs of everyone. A redistribution of that 50 or so billion could be an awesome thing if done properly. The bond holders can lick my ass if they dont like it. They did it in iceland and we should do it too.

-Legalize Abortion, all they need to do is trigger a referendum and it will pass.

-Do anyway with 2-tier healthcare and take Mary Harney's pension(s?) off her cause shes a scumbag of the highest order. If we pay for a health service it should at the very least keep us alive!

-Use money properly on things like schools and other vital infastructure, which all previous governments have almost completely failed to do properly. In junior infants i was in a prefab. For the leaving cert i was still in a prefab. Nuff said.

-Push the church out of anywhere it has infested in solidary with the countless victims of all institutions and society in general for having to endure their fascist conditions and women rights abuses for so long.

-Nationalize our off shore resources and start a criminal inquiry against Ray Burke for practically giving away an estimated 500billion worth of our gas for a few brown envelops.

- And so, so much more

Germany's last gov was left, the current spainish gov is left. They are doing fine in comparason to us.

PeakOutput · 28-04-2010 9:07am

GarlicBread wrote: »

14 years in the hands of right wing fundamentalists

-Seize the banks and redo the nama mess to fit the needs of everyone. A redistribution of that 50 or so billion could be an awesome thing if done properly. The bond holders can lick my ass if they dont like it. They did it in iceland and we should do it too.

redistribute it how? we dont have that money without nama the loan was specifically for nama if we decide to get rid of nama(which would destroy the country) we have to give the loan back

-Legalize Abortion, all they need to do is trigger a referendum and it will pass.

abortion should of course be legal but i still think its 8-10 years away in this country its basically my generation that are pro choice and i still dont think they have a high enough turn out to pass it yet

Do anyway with 2-tier healthcare and take Mary Harney's pension(s?) off her cause shes a scumbag of the highest order. If we pay for a health service it should at the very least keep us alive!

the health service is a mess but every developed country in the world ahs a private and a public option. i dont think we can afford a first class health system for everyone in the country without making some money from private health insurance aswell

Use money properly on things like schools and other vital infastructure, which all previous governments have almost completely failed to do properly. In junior infants i was in a prefab. For the leaving cert i was still in a prefab. Nuff said.

so you expect a far left goverment to stand up to the unions and make large scale redundancies to bring in efficiency in the public service? because thats whats wasting money inefficiency, its not bad teachers or bad builders making **** buildings its innefficient administration that wastes millions and millions a year and unless you are prepared to tackle the unions thats not going to change and i dont believe for a second a goverment with a 'social' agenda first and formost has the balls to do it

Push the church out of anywhere it has infested in solidary with the countless victims of all institutions and society in general for having to endure their fascist conditions and women rights abuses for so long.

absolutely but again its not going to happen until the oldest two of our generations die and pass on and the younger generations make up the majority of the voters. its also not something only a left party can do

Nationalize our off shore resources and start a criminal inquiry against Ray Burke for practically giving away an estimated 500billion worth of our gas for a few brown envelops.

i would be happy enough breaking contracts in this area but the way you seem to be suggesting we do it would ruin our international reputation and should not be done. an elected representative appears to have given a sweet deal to shell. thats not shells fault and they should be paid some compensation for us to get the resources back just dumping them out on their ass's would be a disaster

Scuba Ste · 28-04-2010 10:01am

PeakOutput wrote: »

so you expect a far left goverment to stand up to the unions and make large scale redundancies to bring in efficiency in the public service? because thats whats wasting money inefficiency, its not bad teachers or bad builders making **** buildings its innefficient administration that wastes millions and millions a year and unless you are prepared to tackle the unions thats not going to change and i dont believe for a second a goverment with a 'social' agenda first and formost has the balls to do it

I dont get this attitude to Labour and the unions. The position of the unions today has come about because of the social partnership deals and particularly because of the FF led governments of the past decade. What makes you think a FF led government will do it now. Social partnership is give and take, but if IBEC and business get concessions in the next few yeas you can be damn sure the unions will want the same and when the elections roll around the party most likely to give those will be FF. Its not Labours ties to the unions that has us in our current situation as much as its cool to perpetuate the lie that it is.

Ill be voting Labour, it will interesting to see what people can accuse them of when they dont actually bankrupt the country further.

Amhran Nua · 28-04-2010 10:07am

GarlicBread wrote: »

A left way out of the economic disaster would be the least damaging to society.

I don't know, reading through this debate, its no wonder things have gotten as bad as they have.

Our collective backs are against the wall people, its make or break time, cards on the table. The luxury of arguing the the merits of the received wisdom of dogmatic socioeconomic postures is no longer available to us.

We need to pick the policies and ideas that work, left, right, or centre, put them together and come up with a strategy based on reality, not on what we think it should be. That doesn't mean handing over the country to the bean counters, and it doesn't mean putting the welfare of small groups within Irish society over the welfare of the entire country. It means navigating the many challenges that lie ahead using the best tools available, regardless of what side of the political spectrum they hail from.

Pick a goal, aim for it, and get there by the shortest and most effective route, our own course, tailored to our particular situation.

What makes anyone think we have any other option?

danman · 28-04-2010 10:21am

Scuba Ste wrote: »

I dont get this attitude to Labour and the unions.

Funny, I'm almost certain I heard Eamon Gilmore say at his party conferance that he would give back the PS paycut.

That would imply that he was courting the unions, would it not?

Am I wrong?

Scuba Ste · 28-04-2010 10:30am

Amhran Nua wrote: »

I don't know, reading through this debate, its no wonder things have gotten as bad as they have.

Our collective backs are against the wall people, its make or break time, cards on the table. The luxury of arguing the the merits of the received wisdom of dogmatic socioeconomic postures is no longer available to us.

We need to pick the policies and ideas that work, left, right, or centre, put them together and come up with a strategy based on reality, not on what we think it should be. That doesn't mean handing over the country to the bean counters, and it doesn't mean putting the welfare of small groups within Irish society over the welfare of the entire country. It means navigating the many challenges that lie ahead using the best tools available, regardless of what side of the political spectrum they hail from.

Pick a goal, aim for it, and get there by the shortest and most effective route, our own course, tailored to our particular situation.

What makes anyone think we have any other option?

And what exactly do you propose because while the noble rhetoric is big on ambition its low on ideas. Unfortunately imo i think we have to ride out this recession as best we can and hope to benefit from the upturn in some way. You did ask for realism. What we can afford and what we'd like to do are miles apart atm.

Scuba Ste · 28-04-2010 10:40am

danman wrote: »

Funny, I'm almost certain I heard Eamon Gilmore say at his party conferance that he would give back the PS paycut.

That would imply that he was courting the unions, would it not?

Am I wrong?

You always believe what politicians say in public.

I dont believe Labour would have cut public pay so drastically but i dont think they would reverse the pay cuts either, at least not completely.

I'm not saying Labour have no links to the unions but the power the unions have been afforded has come through FF. I think their links to the unions are more appropriate to the current debate.

Amhran Nua · 28-04-2010 10:40am

Scuba Ste wrote: »

And what exactly do you propose because while the noble rhetoric is big on ambition its low on ideas.

Take a look through the sig there, whatever else we're not low on ideas.

PeakOutput · 28-04-2010 12:58pm

Scuba Ste wrote: »

I dont get this attitude to Labour and the unions. The position of the unions today has come about because of the social partnership deals and particularly because of the FF led governments of the past decade. What makes you think a FF led government will do it now. Social partnership is give and take, but if IBEC and business get concessions in the next few yeas you can be damn sure the unions will want the same and when the elections roll around the party most likely to give those will be FF. Its not Labours ties to the unions that has us in our current situation as much as its cool to perpetuate the lie that it is.

Ill be voting Labour, it will interesting to see what people can accuse them of when they dont actually bankrupt the country further.

first of all i have never advocated a ff led goverment so dont put words in my mouth

i also have not advocated any sort of far right fundamentalism.

this tit for tat thinking wrecks my head. just because ibec get concessions we should get concessions......emmmmmmm NO. if a concession for one side is conducive to saving the country then they get it if it isnt then they dont, end of discussion.

it will interesting to see what people can accuse them of when they dont actually bankrupt the country further

well they arent going to form a majority so we will never know, they will be in coalition and have a so called 'right wing' party in forming the majority of the goverment

You always believe what politicians say in public.

so he lied then? to get more votes?

and you think he is better then the rest?

i hope they do form a minority of the next goverment and that means its going to be fg in power with them which isnt ideal but at least its not ff. i think there needs to be balance with social issues but first and foremost the finances need to be fixed and IMO that requires center right policies

The Volt · 28-04-2010 1:01pm

PeakOutput wrote: »

i think there needs to be balance with social issues but first and foremost the finances need to be fixed and IMO that requires center right policies

That's exactly what's wrong with this country. We're not a business, we're a country with living people in it. Homeless, sick, weak, poorly treated elderly etc etc etc. There needs to be a complete revamp in Irish politics that looks after it's citizens before it looks after the speculators, developers, bankers et al.

danman · 28-04-2010 1:06pm

Voltwad wrote: »

That's exactly what's wrong with this country. We're not a business, we're a country with living people in it. Homeless, sick, weak, poorly treated elderly etc etc etc. There needs to be a complete revamp in Irish politics that looks after it's citizens before it looks after the speculators, developers, bankers et al.

Without any form of business, where do you propose to get the money for all these worthwhile causes?

If businesses aren't sorted out first, the country will never recover.

Giving to charity, doesn't create anything for the economy.

PeakOutput · 28-04-2010 1:13pm

Voltwad wrote: »

That's exactly what's wrong with this country. We're not a business, we're a country with living people in it. Homeless, sick, weak, poorly treated elderly etc etc etc. There needs to be a complete revamp in Irish politics that looks after it's citizens before it looks after the speculators, developers, bankers et al.

you need money to take care of the social issues no money = everyone stays homeless / sick / weak and then if you try and change that everyone gets poorly treated as we will be desperate for investment

if you forget the boom years

we are right now in the best position the country has ever been in(unemployment has only dropped to 2000 levels after all)

we have the best and most equal spread of wealth ever in the history of the country, there are always extremes

we still have alot of clout and attractions as far as investment goes

we need to sort out our financial regulation(this new guy seems to be great so far) and we need to get back the jobs we have lost so that the exchequer looks better. we need to work at least on sustaining our economy. we need to reform the public sector which will free up money to improve front line services.

social welfare needs to be reformed so that it rewards short term unemployed and people who are actively and vigourosly looking for work and punishes the long term unemployed who have no physical or mental disabilities stopping them working

at the very least we need to work our asses of to sustain the economy and stop further decline

otherwise there is no money for your social policies to be implemented, there is no money to improve facilities for homeless or for anyone else because there IS NO MONEY it really is that simple

Tipp Man · 28-04-2010 1:19pm

Voltwad wrote: »

That's exactly what's wrong with this country. We're not a business, we're a country with living people in it. Homeless, sick, weak, poorly treated elderly etc etc etc. There needs to be a complete revamp in Irish politics that looks after it's citizens before it looks after the speculators, developers, bankers et al.

Hmm how exactly are our citizens not looked after?? We have some of the highest welfare in the world, particularly the unemployed and elderly, they have free healthcare, there is more social housing than you could throw a stick at

What more do these people need??

Jobs is the answer by the way and until this country is run like a business we won't be getting too many of them any time soon

Permabear · 28-04-2010 1:21pm

This post has been deleted.

Left Wing Government within our grasp

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