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Ruling for out of sequence bets

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  • 23-12-2009 3:23am
    #1
    Jam-Fly
    Registered Users Posts: 549 ✭✭✭


    I've been getting a few mixed response to this question, so does it depend on the card room?

    Basically, up to player A, player A does not act, player B announces bet 500 (for example).

    Does the 500 bet stand? If player B said 'check' out of turn, is that binding? If player A bet 2000, can player B raise, or is the most he can do call?

    Thanks.


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    #2
    JP Poker
    Registered Users Posts: 2,881 ✭✭✭JP Poker


    This is something that I have been discussing a bit with another TD recently.

    Depends on the card room.


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    #3
    span
    Registered Users Posts: 321 ✭✭span


    It depends on the card room, but it shouldn't.
    Roberts rules and the TDA rules state:

    Verbal declarations in turn are binding. Players are required to act in turn. Action out of turn will be binding if the action to that player has not changed. A check, call or fold is not considered action changing.

    So in your example the 500 remains in if player A checks or folds. But if A bets any amount the 500 doesn't stand and player B has all options.

    As for the second example, I think it's the same. If player B checks out of turn but player A bets. Then Player B's check doesn't stand and they have all options open to them.


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    #4
    pkr_ennis
    Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 176 ✭✭pkr_ennis


    If player B checks out of turn, he's not allowed to raise if a bets. He would be getting an advantage over a if he could do what he wanted in this spot through his illegal check. It's quite a common angle shot. B is feigning weakness (and could have the nuts) which may get a to bluff more often etc etc.


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    #5
    The Clamper
    Registered Users Posts: 1,317 ✭✭✭The Clamper


    I KNOW A VERY WELL KNOWN POKER PRO WHO DOES THIS REGULARLY AND ALSO DELIBERATELY UNDER RAISES OUT OF TURN ASWELL

    I.E. BLINDS ARE 500-1000 AND HE WILL RAISE TO 700 OUT OF TURN

    CLEARLY INDICATING HIS EXCITEMENT OVER HIS HAND AND SHOWING THAT HE INTENDS TO RAISE ALTHOUGH HJE DOESNT ACTUALLY SAY THE WORD RAISE

    THE DEALER WILL USUALLY ASK HIM TO WAIT HIS TURN AND WHOEVER IS ON THE BET WILL NATURALLY CHECK, THEN THE DEALER WILL SAY THAT HE DIDNT RAISE ENOUGH TO WARRANT AN ACTUAL RAISE AND HIS RAISE DOESNT DTAND AND ITS A CALL

    NATURALLY EVERYONE ELSE DOESNT RAISE AND HE GETS FREE CARDS
    ALSO HE HAS SHOWN INTENT TO RAISE SO ITS USUALLY CHECKED INTO HIM WHERUPON HE MAKE A SHOW AND SAYS THIS WILL DEFINITELY BE A RAISE NOW AND DULY HUMPS IN A MEGA BET

    ITS UNLIKELY TO BE CALLED AND HE SCOOPS THE POT

    ONLY WORKS ON PEOPLE WHO HAVENT SEEN HIM DO IT AS REGULARLY AS ME, I USUALLY PLAY ALONG AND THEN SHOVE ALL IN WHEN HE MEGA BETS THE FLOP

    FOLDING IS ALWAYS AN OPTION FOR THE GUY, HIS BET SIZE MAKES SURE OF IT

    WHEN HE GETS AWAY WITH IT, HE MAKES A BIG ISSUE OF TELLING HIS POKER PRO MATES HOW HE FOOLED THE TABLE OF IDIOTS-AGAIN-

    NICE GUY EH ?


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    #6
    jem
    Registered Users Posts: 1,030 ✭✭✭jem


    please stop shouting


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    #7
    pkr_ennis
    Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 176 ✭✭pkr_ennis


    The Clamper wrote: »
    I KNOW A VERY WELL KNOWN POKER PRO WHO DOES THIS REGULARLY AND ALSO DELIBERATELY UNDER RAISES OUT OF TURN ASWELL

    I.E. BLINDS ARE 500-1000 AND HE WILL RAISE TO 700 OUT OF TURN

    CLEARLY INDICATING HIS EXCITEMENT OVER HIS HAND AND SHOWING THAT HE INTENDS TO RAISE ALTHOUGH HJE DOESNT ACTUALLY SAY THE WORD RAISE

    THE DEALER WILL USUALLY ASK HIM TO WAIT HIS TURN AND WHOEVER IS ON THE BET WILL NATURALLY CHECK, THEN THE DEALER WILL SAY THAT HE DIDNT RAISE ENOUGH TO WARRANT AN ACTUAL RAISE AND HIS RAISE DOESNT DTAND AND ITS A CALL

    NATURALLY EVERYONE ELSE DOESNT RAISE AND HE GETS FREE CARDS
    ALSO HE HAS SHOWN INTENT TO RAISE SO ITS USUALLY CHECKED INTO HIM WHERUPON HE MAKE A SHOW AND SAYS THIS WILL DEFINITELY BE A RAISE NOW AND DULY HUMPS IN A MEGA BET

    ITS UNLIKELY TO BE CALLED AND HE SCOOPS THE POT

    ONLY WORKS ON PEOPLE WHO HAVENT SEEN HIM DO IT AS REGULARLY AS ME, I USUALLY PLAY ALONG AND THEN SHOVE ALL IN WHEN HE MEGA BETS THE FLOP

    FOLDING IS ALWAYS AN OPTION FOR THE GUY, HIS BET SIZE MAKES SURE OF IT

    WHEN HE GETS AWAY WITH IT, HE MAKES A BIG ISSUE OF TELLING HIS POKER PRO MATES HOW HE FOOLED THE TABLE OF IDIOTS-AGAIN-

    NICE GUY EH ?

    Name and shame?


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    #8
    bettyswallox
    Registered Users Posts: 3 ✭bettyswallox


    bettyswallox wrote: »
    hi watching ept series 7 barcelona, romanello was at the feature table, utg+1 makes it 7000 or so for argument sake, out of turn, utg ask what his options, hes is told, he can call the raise, raise himself , or fold.he asks what are the options of utg+1, he's told,he can call a raise, or take back his chips if reraised, i kid you not, so utg raises about 16k and utg+1 takes back his chips, i was flabergasted..ithought he had to leave the chips in


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    #9
    connie147
    Registered Users Posts: 2,836 ✭✭✭connie147


    bettyswallox wrote: »
    bettyswallox wrote: »
    hi watching ept series 7 barcelona, romanello was at the feature table, utg+1 makes it 7000 or so for argument sake, out of turn, utg ask what his options, hes is told, he can call the raise, raise himself , or fold.he asks what are the options of utg+1, he's told,he can call a raise, or take back his chips if reraised, i kid you not, so utg raises about 16k and utg+1 takes back his chips, i was flabergasted..ithought he had to leave the chips in

    No, ruling is right. By utg raising to 16,000, he has changed the action and so reopens all options for utg+1. Ig utg was cute enough, he should have limped for the size of the bb (im guessing 2,000 or 3,000), then utg+1 would have to make his raise to 7,000 because the action hasnt changed, and then when it comes back around to utg, he can then reraise if he likes.


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