Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 11/12

jaykay74 · 19-03-2012 3:59pm

It amazing Utd ever win the league given wide held opinions of the players. Mix a best of Utd/city team most neutrals would have the balance in citys favour. Even for a mix Utd/Spurs team (maybe up to a couple of weeks back before the wheels have come off) a lot would argue for a higher Spurs representation than Utd. Now I'm looking at a Utd/Liverpool split almost 50/50 in personnel even though Liverpool are 30 odd points behind

Yet here we are with a decent chance of 5 league titles out of 6. Baffling

Is Rooney that good ?... as most of the rest of team spends half the time being derided.

J. Marston · 19-03-2012 4:00pm

This season, I'd take De Gea over Reina.

homerjay2005 · 19-03-2012 4:11pm

J. Marston wrote: »

This season, I'd take De Gea over Reina.

i am quiet happy that by the end of this season, that De Gea will have proven himself to be better than reina and the debate is put to bed. only Krul and harte and possibly Vorm have had better seasons all things taken into account.

de gea makes a mistake, its all over message forums and in the sun, yet reina makes mistakes that are ignored.

and for people writing off Evra, a man going for his 5th PL title, youve short memories.Enrique has alot to do to make up ground on Evra.

if i had to stretch, the only player i would put in our team from liverpool, is Gerrard.

a united v city team, would be more accurate and harder to pick. rooney, valencia, vidic, kompany, aguero, silva, harte are all certainties, then the rest is down to opinion and formation and whether its form or actual ability that its based on.

Pro. F · 19-03-2012 4:11pm

Vanbis wrote: »

I'd say that was more to him having a shocker against Athletico Bilbao.

But Park made the bench against Wolves and he was easily a million times worse than Tom in Bilbao.

Cleverley isn't down on physioroom as injured, so hopefully he is healthy.

RasTa · 19-03-2012 4:15pm

cambo2008 wrote: »

Not going any further with this.Lucas is a better cm than Carrick.

No chance.

Pro. F · 19-03-2012 4:17pm

homerjay2005 wrote: »

and for people writing off Evra, a man going for his 5th PL title, youve short memories.Enrique has alot to do to make up ground on Evra.

Evra does not defend anymore. It doesn't matter what he has won, the team is carrying him at this stage because of his terrible defending.

Enrique is a defender that bothers his arse defending, so that makes him a better full back than Evra.

Vanbis · 19-03-2012 4:17pm

Pro. F wrote: »

But Park made the bench against Wolves and he was easily a million times worse than Tom in Bilbao.

I agree, he was shocking too. It was just opinion as to why he was left out.

Will I Amnt · 19-03-2012 4:19pm

jaykay74 wrote: »

It amazing Utd ever win the league given wide held opinions of the players. Mix a best of Utd/city team most neutrals would have the balance in citys favour. Even for a mix Utd/Spurs team (maybe up to a couple of weeks back before the wheels have come off) a lot would argue for a higher Spurs representation than Utd. Now I'm looking at a Utd/Liverpool split almost 50/50 in personnel even though Liverpool are 30 odd points behind

Yet here we are with a decent chance of 5 league titles out of 6. Baffling

Is Rooney that good ?... as most of the rest of team spends half the time being derided.

Fergie would walk the league with City and maybe Spurs.

RasTa · 19-03-2012 4:19pm

Pro. F wrote: »

Evra does not defend anymore. It doesn't matter what he has won, the team is carrying him at this stage because of his terrible defending.

Enrique is a defender that bothers his arse defending, so that makes him a better full back than Evra.

Don't really care tbh, same was said about Roberto Carlos. How many times a game do we see Evra linking up with Giggs, Young or Nani on the left surging into the box. The man should not be sold

19-03-2012 4:22pm

Lucas and Carrick don't even play the same roles.

J. Marston · 19-03-2012 4:22pm

homerjay2005 wrote: »

i am quiet happy that by the end of this season, that De Gea will have proven himself to be better than reina and the debate is put to bed. only Krul and harte and possibly Vorm have had better seasons all things taken into account.

de gea makes a mistake, its all over message forums and in the sun, yet reina makes mistakes that are ignored.

and for people writing off Evra, a man going for his 5th PL title, youve short memories.Enrique has alot to do to make up ground on Evra.

if i had to stretch, the only player i would put in our team from liverpool, is Gerrard.

a united v city team, would be more accurate and harder to pick. rooney, valencia, vidic, kompany, aguero, silva, harte are all certainties, then the rest is down to opinion and formation and whether its form or actual ability that its based on.

I dunno about that. Reina is a really good keeper, he might just be having a poor season but De Gea has been better this year. Off the top of my head, I can think of at least 3/4 games where Reina has cost Liverpool points. Norwich (fresh air punch for Holt's header), Fulham (Drops a shot at Dempsey's feet for a last minute winner), City (Lets City's first goal go under his body from a nothing shot) and Arsenal (Lets in a last minute winner at his near post, should've saved it). That's a lot of points down the drain due to keepers errors.

De Gea, on the other hand has cost us points once, against Blackburn.

Pro. F · 19-03-2012 4:24pm

RasTa wrote: »

Don't really care tbh, same was said about Roberto Carlos. How many times a game do we see Evra linking up with Giggs, Young or Nani on the left surging into the box. The man should not be sold

And how many goals do we concede because of his laziness defending? He is easily costing us more goals than he is creating.

3hn2givr7mx1sc · 19-03-2012 4:26pm

Evra's attacking is quite overrated I think. It's good yeah, but not enough to cover for his frustratingly shít defending.

RasTa · 19-03-2012 4:28pm

Pro. F wrote: »

And how many goals do we concede because of his laziness defending? He is easily costing us more goals than he is creating.

List them please.

Going back through the last 5 games

BPL 11 Feb 2012
v Liverpool (H)
2 - 1 - Rio

BPL 26 Feb 2012
v Norwich (A)
1 - 2 Don't remember what happened here tbh

BPL 4 Mar 2012
v Tottenham (A)
1 - 3 Dodgy pass from Scholes or Giggs and De Gea wrong footed

BPL 11 Mar 2012
v West Brom (H)
2 - 0
BPL 18 Mar 2012
v Wolves (A)
0 - 5

Pro. F · 19-03-2012 4:39pm

rarnes1 wrote: »

Lucas and Carrick don't even play the same roles.

They both play in the centre of midfield and they are both defensively sound. As a suitable partner for a Scholes type of player they are very comparable.

Eathrin · 19-03-2012 4:54pm

Lucas and Enrique maybe.
Definitely would have De Gea over Reina and not a chance I'd have Suarez in the team, no better than any of our current strikers and a horrible sportsman. Gerrard wouldn't last long either so yes I would take him but I wouldn't swap him for say Clev or Pogba.

Nalz · 19-03-2012 5:04pm

Is nani back next week?

Pro. F · 19-03-2012 5:31pm

RasTa wrote: »

List them please.

Going back through the last 5 games

BPL 11 Feb 2012
v Liverpool (H)
2 - 1 - Rio

BPL 26 Feb 2012
v Norwich (A)
1 - 2 Don't remember what happened here tbh

BPL 4 Mar 2012
v Tottenham (A)
1 - 3 Dodgy pass from Scholes or Giggs and De Gea wrong footed

BPL 11 Mar 2012
v West Brom (H)
2 - 0
BPL 18 Mar 2012
v Wolves (A)
0 - 5

I'm not going to go back through every goal of the season to work out how many he has been responsible for. I wouldn't even be able to get video of every goal now. And nobody's memory is good enough to remember exactly what happened in every goal.
 The last one I remember him contributing to is the first goal we conceded in the first leg against Bilbao. I just went and checked a replay there and he first of all made up a lot of ground to get back to his winger and then didn't even try to stop him crossing. Evra has been allowing his wingers to cross all season, he rarely puts them under any pressure.

I might not remember all the goals we have conceded this season, but I do know that I have seen Evra fùck up for far too many of them. I can't believe there is even any debate about it.

homerjay2005 · 19-03-2012 6:00pm

i honestly dont get the "hatred" towards evra here, its baffling and seems to be a boards things more than anything else.

de gea was the scape got for a few weeks, then it was evans, it appears to be evra now. he lost kuyt for the goal at anfield, but you could also look at the fact the ball wasnt defended properly in the first place.

for every goal evra has cost us this season, phil jones has cost us 2 or even 3. rio has cost us as many goals as evra, as has de dea, smalling and evans. all defenders cause goals to be conceeded, its not down to them being s*it, its down to football being football.

he is not playing at the level of 2008 or 09, thats sure, but f*ck me youd swear he was paul mcshane they way ye lot go on.

its getting beyond a joke a this stage, the man can do no right for alot on here and i honestly think, some of you have left the suarez thing and subsequent assassination of him by liverpool fans brain wash you some bit.

feel free to list all the goals we have conceed and id be pretty sure phil jones will top the list and evra no worse off than the rest.

Vanbis · 19-03-2012 6:04pm

Trilla wrote: »

Is nani back next week?

Hope so, not sure why he was missing this week, if it was a small injury or maybe match fitness.

homerjay2005 · 19-03-2012 6:16pm

Pro. F wrote: »

I
 The last one I remember him contributing to is the first goal we conceded in the first leg against Bilbao..

That goal, was the fault of Phil Jones. Evra may have contributed it by not preventing the cross, but it was jones who was running with Llorente and just stopped, allowing him to get free.

in relation to the games we have dropped points on this season in the league, you could blame evra for one goal, maybe 2 against chelsea perhaps and city, a game we would have lost anyway whether he was playing or not.

goals against stoke, liverpool, newcastle, blackburn and newcastle again, all had nothing to do with him. he didnt play against palace and the goals in europe were down to others, not him.

being extra critical, i could blame him for one of the Basle goals in the 3-3, but i think at the time most of my blame went with Rio. i blamed evra for the 2nd goal against city in the fa cup, but we won that.

Pro. F wrote: »

And nobody's memory is good enough to remember exactly what happened in every goal.
.

really? i would like to think id remember practically every goal scored for and against united this year and alot of fans would be the same.

as ive already mentioned, my main problem with evra is his lack of concentration, when i put blame down to him, its normally for him being out of position and we get cut open down his flank.

Eathrin · 19-03-2012 6:22pm

I think this is my first period of time as a Utd supported where I actually like seeing Evans play. Jones needs to find form again and Vidic out, I think Evans has really stepped up to the task.

Paul Tergat · 19-03-2012 6:26pm

Eathrin wrote: »

I think this is my first period of time as a Utd supported where I actually like seeing Evans play. Jones needs to find form again and Vidic out, I think Evans has really stepped up to the task.

When he first came back from his loan at Sunderland he was playing great too

Pro. F · 19-03-2012 6:27pm

homerjay2005 wrote: »

i honestly dont get the "hatred" towards evra here, its baffling and seems to be a boards things more than anything else.

de gea was the scape got for a few weeks, then it was evans, it appears to be evra now.

You are lumping all the different opinions on here into one entity. That is not how the discussions have gone.

DDG was ridiculously harshly criticised by the raving lunatic that was Sean Bateman.

Evan's is probably supported by the majority on here and criticised by a minority (including me). Evra, the opposite.

There is not a unified criticism on here of defenders that swings from one player to the next based on over reaction like seem to be trying to portray. There are just people with views different to yours.

It's not just a boards thing either. If you're talking about boards.ie, then head over to redcafe and read the Evra thread there; google Evra defending and read what people are writing all over the internet. If you are talking about it just being an internet thing, I've heard plenty of people criticise his defending in outside world conversations.

homerjay2005 wrote: »

he lost kuyt for the goal at anfield, but you could also look at the fact the ball wasnt defended properly in the first place.

Rio lost a header, you can criticise him for that. That doesn't change the fact that Evra made a bad mistake in not getting back on the cover. Evra makes those types of mistakes all the time this season. People aren't criticising him because he made one mistake. He is being criticised because he is making loads of mistakes. Pretty much every game this season he makes bad mistakes and gives up chances. His defensive positioning is hopeless and his work rate when defending is shoddy.

homerjay2005 wrote: »

for every goal evra has cost us this season, phil jones has cost us 2 or even 3. rio has cost us as many goals as evra, as has de dea, smalling and evans. all defenders cause goals to be conceeded, its not down to them being s*it, its down to football being football.
...
feel free to list all the goals we have conceed and id be pretty sure phil jones will top the list and evra no worse off than the rest.

Not a chance. Evra is miles ahead of any other defender or keeper at the club for mistakes and responsibility for goals. Nobody is even close to him.

homerjay2005 wrote: »

its getting beyond a joke a this stage, the man can do no right for alot on here and i honestly think, some of you have left the suarez thing and subsequent assassination of him by liverpool fans brain wash you some bit.

That is a ridiculous theory tbf.

Vanbis · 19-03-2012 6:28pm

Paul Tergat wrote: »

When he first came back from his loan at Sunderland he was playing great too

The fact he is getting a proper run in team is helping, he seems to be fergies number choice to partner Ferdinand at the back.

Paul Tergat · 19-03-2012 6:31pm

Vanbis wrote: »

The fact he is getting a proper run in team is helping, he seems to be fergies number choice to partner Ferdinand at the back.

Totally agree. It's not often you find players, especially younger ones, who can just fill in when needed. A regular run really is needed especially for a CB to forge a partnership more than anything else. The fact he has been solid with different partners as Rio is rested speaks volumes for him.

Hope this is the Evans we will see from now on

Vanbis · 19-03-2012 6:33pm

Paul Tergat wrote: »

Totally agree. It's not often you find players, especially younger ones, who can just fill in when needed. A regular run really is needed especially for a CB to forge a partnership more than anything else. The fact he has been solid with different partners as Rio is rested speaks volumes for him.

Hope this is the Evans we will see from now on

It will certainly give fergie a headace once Vidic returns but i think Ferdinand will be the one to suffer next season.

Paul Tergat · 19-03-2012 6:37pm

Vanbis wrote: »

It will certainly give fergie a headace once Vidic returns but i think Ferdinand will be the one to suffer next season.

Has to be.

Just hope Vida is repaired properly

Son Of A Vidic · 19-03-2012 6:37pm

Adolf Hipster wrote: »

Berba was a major reason we won the league last season.

A contribution perhaps, but I suppose to follow on from costing us the league in 2009-2010, he had kept true to form with the FA Cup debacle. Why do you think Hernandez, took over as Rooney's first choice partner mid-way through last season? Why do you think SAF omitted him from the CL final? Is it because he doesn't want a prancing pony, who misses way more than he'll ever score. He just can't afford to have a lazy, sulking, child on the pitch I suppose.

Adolf Hipster wrote: »

You need to let that one game go

One game? If only it was one game, look at the last 4 games of the 2009 - 2010 season. He missed 7 shocking headers alone in the last 4 games, not including what he missed on the ground. You need to do some serious research and just count the amount of abysmal misses Berabmiss has had. Strikers will miss on occasion, it's just that Berbamiss repeatedly has some really bad howlers.

Adolf Hipster wrote: »

you either waffle about how shít Anderson is or Berba missing in the FA cup against City, cut the man some slack, the majority of the team was shocking in that FA cup game.

You need to grasp some reality there and stop the wild exaggerating. Look at my in-thread post history and get some perspective. But you are joking about Anderson right? So his 5 seasons of disappointment and underachievement at United is waffle? His failure to improve or deliver for the last 5 years is waffle? Him being Persistently injured is waffle? In fairness though, he has mastered the art of the-occasional-surging-run-forward-and-watch-as-I-lose-utter-control-of-the-ball-and lose-possession-while-doing-so. Now that he is truly expert at.

The facts speak for themselves. What has he brought to the team, when he has actually managed to make it on to the pitch?.... Absolutely nothing, now take those blinkers off.

TheTownie · 19-03-2012 6:39pm

I think people should let the 'who has cost us what' argument go. Often times its a collection of players neglecting their responsibilities that leads to goals anyway.

WRT Evra, its evident he isn't busting a gut on the defensive side or getting tight enough as he use to but I think his experience and overall contribution still merits his inclusion in the starting XI.

He has peaked, was the best LB in the world at his peak IMO, and is on the way down. Its a case of how long he can play at a sufficient level to merit his inclusion. Some think that tipping point has come already which is fair enough but I, others and seemingly Fergie think he is not quite that bad yet.

I would be in favour of giving Fabio more opportunities to show what he can do at LB but at this stage of the season it isn't going to happen unless Evra gets injured.

Next season could see Fabio be a much more prominent figure if a) he stays fit and b) Fergie still believes he is Evra's successor.

homerjay2005 · 19-03-2012 6:58pm

to be honest, im really surprised how Little game time Fabio has got this year considering he started the CL final, injuries aside.

suppose our poor cup form this year, has contributed to that.

Adolf Hipster · 19-03-2012 7:47pm

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

Adolf Hipster wrote: »

Berba was a major reason we won the league last season.

A contribution perhaps, but I suppose to follow on from costing us the league in 2009-2010, he had kept true to form with the FA Cup debacle. Why do you think Hernandez, took over as Rooney's first choice partner mid-way through last season? Why do you think SAF omitted him from the CL final? Is it because he doesn't want a prancing pony, who misses way more than he'll ever score. He just can't afford to have a lazy, sulking, child on the pitch I suppose.

Adolf Hipster wrote: »

You need to let that one game go

One game? If only it was one game, look at the last 4 games of the 2009 - 2010 season. He missed 7 shocking headers alone in the last 4 games, not including what he missed on the ground. You need to do some serious research and just count the amount of abysmal misses Berabmiss has had. Strikers will miss on occasion, it's just that Berbamiss repeatedly has some really bad howlers.

Adolf Hipster wrote: »

you either waffle about how shít Anderson is or Berba missing in the FA cup against City, cut the man some slack, the majority of the team was shocking in that FA cup game.

You need to grasp some reality there and stop the wild exaggerating. Look at my in-thread post history and get some perspective. But you are joking about Anderson right? So his 5 seasons of disappointment and underachievement at United is waffle? His failure to improve or deliver for the last 5 years is waffle? Him being Persistently injured is waffle? In fairness though, he has mastered the art of the-occasional-surging-run-forward-and-watch-as-I-lose-utter-control-of-the-ball-and lose-possession-while-doing-so. Now that he is truly expert at.

The facts speak for themselves. What has he brought to the team, when he has actually managed to make it on to the pitch?.... Absolutely nothing, now take those blinkers off.

my point was that every second post from you is about that berba miss or anderson being ****, you don't seem to post about much else, that's why I called it waffle.

Shane St. · 19-03-2012 7:50pm

homerjay2005 wrote: »

to be honest, im really surprised how Little game time Fabio has got this year considering he started the CL final, injuries aside.

suppose our poor cup form this year, has contributed to that.

I agree it is surprising. He was excellent in the run in last year and was one of our better performers in the CL final. I love the twins. Pity they pick up so many niggling injuries

Mikeyt086 · 19-03-2012 7:54pm

homerjay2005 wrote: »

i honestly dont get the "hatred" towards evra here, its baffling and seems to be a boards things more than anything else.

de gea was the scape got for a few weeks, then it was evans, it appears to be evra now. he lost kuyt for the goal at anfield, but you could also look at the fact the ball wasnt defended properly in the first place. A

for every goal evra has cost us this season, phil jones has cost us 2 or even 3. rio has cost us as many goals as evra, as has de dea, smalling and evans. all defenders cause goals to be conceeded, its not down to them being s*it, its down to football being football. B

he is not playing at the level of 2008 or 09, thats sure, but f*ck me youd swear he was paul mcshane they way ye lot go on. C

its getting beyond a joke a this stage, the man can do no right for alot on here and i honestly think, some of you have left the suarez thing and subsequent assassination of him by liverpool fans brain wash you some bit. D

feel free to list all the goals we have conceed and id be pretty sure phil jones will top the list and evra no worse off than the rest E.

As one of Evra biggest critics, let me breakdown why I disagree with almost everything you said above.

A:
Scape goat? That is utter bollox. Me personally? I have taken loads of stick on this forum for defending the likes of Anderson, Gibson, De Gea, Carrick and Rafael as I personally never just attack players because everyone else is. I was one of Patrice Evra's biggest fans, had his name on the back of my shirt, even made a YouTube video about him which has around 200,000 views on Youtube. To suggest I just turned on him because no-one else is playing bad is crazy.

B:
I'm sorry but that just isnt correct. The amount of goals that have come down the attacking teams right side is absolutely staggering. Almost all of these goals are from crosses into the box, where Evra failed to stop the cross, and by failed I mean failed spectacularly, only dangling a leg in the general direction of the player. Off the top of my head: Benfica (Gaitan went unchallenged), Chelsea (Sturridge made a mockery of him), Chelsea (gave Torres so much time to cross it was outrageous) Bilbao (no attempt to close the man down), Bilbao (after the no-boot-free kick thing he complained at the ref instead of getting back in position). There is 5 goals, not put down to a mistake, as Rio, Jones, Evans and Rafael have made this year, but down to just... not... closing... the... man... down. There is at least 5 more, you mentioned some, the above took me one minute to think of. We arnt making this **** up.

C:
In 08/09 he was the best left back in the world by an absolute mile. Last year he wasnt that good. This season I honestly feel he has been detrimental to the team's success. And it pains me to say that.

You just really pissed me off here. Evra has done just fine in a few games this year I have acknowledged that. To claim that I am pointing out Evra's flaws because of the incident with that cretin Suarez, is an insult. For what its worth I supported him 100% and absolutely loved his antics at the end, two weeks later, he was back to not giving a ****.

E:
Lets weight up the differences between Phil Jones' mistakes, and Evra's. Phil Jones' mistakes have come from either over commitment, or lack of experience, he has not made the same mistake twice. Patrice Evra's mistakes have all been the exact same, and are a result of not trying. You will forgive me then for not stuffing this forum with Evra sigs.

Now look, your a sensible poster who's contribution I enjoy Homer, so this isnt a personal thing. You dont see why myself and other posters here (and NO it isnt a boards.ie thing, I know of many United fans who are shocked at Evra's apathy on the pitch) are criticise Evra, and fair enough, I dont even care if I have convinced you or not, but I really took exception to what you posted and felt the need to explain that we are not just ganging up on him. Thats a totally bizzare thing to say.

RasTa · 19-03-2012 8:13pm

Mikeyt086 wrote: »

B:
I'm sorry but that just isnt correct. The amount of goals that have come down the attacking teams right side is absolutely staggering. Almost all of these goals are from crosses into the box, where Evra failed to stop the cross, and by failed I mean failed spectacularly, only dangling a leg in the general direction of the player.

Hang on, so your saying loads of goals have come as a result of Evra not blocking crosses into the box? I've no idea how many headed goals we have conceded but you're pulling these stats out of your arse.

You mentioned 5 goals, two Euro games and one PL which resulted in a spectacular finish from Mata.

3hn2givr7mx1sc · 19-03-2012 8:15pm

RasTa wrote: »

Hang on, so your saying loads of goals have come as a result of Evra not blocking crosses into the box? I've no idea how many headed goals we have conceded but you're pulling these stats out of your arse.

What is this stat you see?

Mikeyt086 · 19-03-2012 8:19pm

RasTa wrote: »

Hang on, so your saying loads of goals have come as a result of Evra not blocking crosses into the box? I've no idea how many headed goals we have conceded but you're pulling these stats out of your arse.

You mentioned 5 goals, two Euro games and one PL which resulted in a spectacular finish from Mata.

I am pulling nothing out of my arse. How many goals do we concede from crosses from the left? Barely any. All headers scored can be traced back to the assist, and if you give that player the time Evra has been, he will find his man.

I mentioned 5 goals, after thinking about it for 60 seconds. I could download all of United's goals against and make a montage of Evra's mistakes, but that would take all night and wouldnt be particularly enjoyable.

G.K. · 19-03-2012 8:21pm

Pro. F is absolutely right.

If people just spent a game watching his positioning, you'd see how bad it was. He was constantly in bad positions against Bilbao at OT, at fault for all 3 goals. Especially No. 1 (Which Pro. F talked about) and No. 3. I know you'll say, 'but Rafael was an idiot', he was, I'll admit that. But Evra was still in Bilbao's half when the freekick was taken, drawing Evans and Jones out onto the same ball in the LB zone. If Evra had been back, Jones could have been back in the middle, and it could have been 3 v 3 instead of Rafael/Anderson against Muniain/Toquero/De Marcos. A few times in that game he got posession and switched off, giving the ball back to players who he disposessed. One time that happened was in Utd's box. Plenty of times he was lazy positionally, leading to spaces which could have been exploited for goals.

Look at the Wolves game. MOTD showed only a few of Wolves attacks that weren't set pieces. In 2 of those, and there really weren't many, Evra was marking Steven Fletcher, the lone centre forward, and leaving the LB area totally exposed.

These are basic but hanging errors. Sort it out Evra.

EDIT: Mikey posted his post after I wrote mine, but before I posted it. Utterly right - it's a matter of closing down and occupying the right positions on the pitch. There's no big conspiracy. Just Evra and his performances.

RasTa · 19-03-2012 8:21pm

Mikeyt086 wrote: »

I mentioned 5 goals, after thinking about it for 60 seconds. I could download all of United's goals against and make a montage of Evra's mistakes, but that would take all night and wouldnt be particularly enjoyable.

You just wouldn't be able to back up your point.

Adolf Hipster · 19-03-2012 8:22pm

He'd definitely be able to find at least 5 goals that have been Evra's fault tbh.

G.K. · 19-03-2012 8:26pm

RasTa wrote: »

You just wouldn't be able to back up your point.

Really?

Mikeyt086 · 19-03-2012 8:28pm

RasTa wrote: »

You just wouldn't be able to back up your point.

I absolutely would. I am 100% confident of that. I'm not saying Evra is at fault for every goal, but I know I could find enough examples to make a YouTube video out of. But do you know what that process involves? Please dont make me follow through with it, I'm not in the mood at all and have a backlog of Sigs to get through. Instead, watch this video of Patrice Evra at a happier time, I had nothing to do on a summer's day and put about 9 hours into this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yV9ViiSQlYU

That took 9 hours, and it's dog****. Quality is piss poor, little to no editing, strange music choice (I was 18 i think) and mediocre clips.;)

RasTa · 19-03-2012 8:42pm

Mikeyt086 wrote: »

I absolutely would. I am 100% confident of that. I'm not saying Evra is at fault for every goal, but I know I could find enough examples to make a YouTube video out of. But do you know what that process involves? Please dont make me follow through with it, I'm not in the mood at all and have a backlog of Sigs to get through. Instead, watch this video of Patrice Evra at a happier time, I had nothing to do on a summer's day and put about 9 hours into this:

Lets look at our last two league defeats

3 goals there, one shocking Jones **** up and slack from Rio. None from the right

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QW88hUM8dV0

Again, no goals scored from the right and none down to Evra so 0/6. I could go on all night but I'm off to bed, almost 3am over here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnhaRXCunU0

homerjay2005 · 19-03-2012 8:44pm

Mikeyt086 wrote: »

I am pulling nothing out of my arse. How many goals do we concede from crosses from the left? Barely any.

thats more to do with the fact that there far more right sides wingers than left sided wingers playing football, than evras ability. a huge % of our goals, comes from the right side of the pitch. our 3 main wingers are all naturally right footed and its the same for most clubs, thus more goals come from right hand side of the pitch. its not exactly rocket science!

And i will stick to my opinion, that Phil Jones has cost us more goals than any of defender this season. with him in center back, we are as shaky as weve been in years. if you want to slag off evras positioning, then slag off jones in the interest of fair play.

nobody has said that evra has been excellent this year, but weve alot of players who are well short of their best at the moment.

G.K. · 19-03-2012 8:45pm

Defeats aren't the only games where goals are conceded, and goals conceded aren't the only mistakes.

G.K. · 19-03-2012 8:45pm

homerjay2005 wrote: »

thats more to do with the fact that there far more right sides wingers than left sided wingers playing football, than evras ability. a huge % of our goals, comes from the right side of the pitch. our 3 main wingers are all naturally right footed and its the same for most clubs, thus more goals come from right hand side of the pitch. its not exactly rocket science!

This to me feels like clutching at straws. I may be wrong, but that's the impression I get.

homerjay2005 · 19-03-2012 8:57pm

G.K. wrote: »

This to me feels like clutching at straws. I may be wrong, but that's the impression I get.

unless you can proove otherwise, my point is spot on. more play comes down a right hand flank than the left. look at united yesterday, all 5 goals came from the right of our attack/left back position (you could argue the first was a corner from the left). valencia and nani have 26 assists between them, pretty much all of them from the right and i can think of another 7 or 8 goals from the right hand side (rafael and cleverly for example)

i would say at least 75% of our goals that come from the flanks, come from a right sided cross. even the crosses from the left flank, come from a right foot, with the exception of giggs.

and my other point stands also, phil jones has cost united more goals directly, than any other player. the thing that annoys me, is anytime a ball comes in from the left, people blame evra for not cutting out the cross, but then ignore the fact that the players in the middle also did the exact same. in reality, it can normally take 2 or 3 players not doing their job to be classed as a defensive mistake, but i find people just blame evra and ignore the rest. to blame evra for the goals against bilbao at old trafford is laughable, when the key mistakes for them were made by rafael and jones.

i love jones as a united player, but the praise he gets is as OTT as the slack evra gets, both are not justified and i think a bit of perspective and fair play is needed.

Mikeyt086 · 19-03-2012 9:08pm

homerjay2005 wrote: »

thats more to do with the fact that there far more right sides wingers than left sided wingers playing football, than evras ability. a huge % of our goals, comes from the right side of the pitch. our 3 main wingers are all naturally right footed and its the same for most clubs, thus more goals come from right hand side of the pitch. its not exactly rocket science

If we played against Antonio Valencia every week I would accept the amount of goals that come down our right hand side. Is it just this season that there are far more right sided players playing football? Because these things didnt happen before. It's only this season it is happening.

And i will stick to my opinion, that Phil Jones has cost us more goals than any of defender this season. with him in center back, we are as shaky as weve been in years. if you want to slag off evras positioning, then slag off jones in the interest of fair play.

And I wont accuse you of being brainwashed for sticking to your opinion.

Phil Jones is 19, defenders who are 19 make mistakes. Phil Jones has been a fantastic signing and is a shining beacon of hope for the future of our club, I'm sure you will agree. I will 'slag off' the positioning of Phil Jones when playing centre back, at 19 years of age. I will also 'slag off' the positioning of Patrice Evra, at 30, having won X amount of club and individual honors. Notice something a bit iffy there? Is it wrong for me to expect experienced professionals who have been at the absolute top of their game to not be making these mistakes? Should I ignore them because a 19 year old playing 3 different positions is making the same amount/more mistakes?

bullvine · 19-03-2012 9:11pm

I agree, I think Evra is being treated harshly, hes not been as good as he was 2 years ago but still better than most in that position.

Copper_pipe · 19-03-2012 9:22pm

Pretty sure this will give you a bank holiday giggle:

When Torres scored yesterday he had a t-shirt under his jersey saying “Save the Chilean Miners"

Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 11/12

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