Three suggestions for Dublin Bus

pushpop · 25-01-2013 12:31pm #1

Three suggestions for Dublin Bus - either go completely cashless, or give change ! It's a joke that you STILL have to go to O'Connell st to get change.

Secondly, do away with the stage-based fare system, and have one standard fare. The current system is completely customer-unfriendly, in that he/she has no way to calculate their journey cost in advance when getting a bus on an unfamiliar route. It's seems almost quaint and archaic that you have to ask the bus driver how much your journey will be.

Thirdly, and this is applicable only if they keep the stage based fare system, at every bus stop, put up a route map for every route that the stop is served by, and the fare required to get to subsequent stops, on an itemised, stop by stop basis.

Dublin Bus is often difficult for most Dubs to use , so I cringe thinking about tourists trying to use a Dublin Bus, and having to ask the driver for the cost of the journey in what is a foreign language to a lot of them. "WHA? WHEREYAGOIN? AH JAYSUS CAN'T HEAR YA LOVE" It's said that the sign of a well-developed city is not one where everyone owns cars, but where everyone uses public transport. Leo Varadkar needs to give DB a kick up the arse and bring them into the 21st century.

jd · 25-01-2013 12:47pm

Simpler, don't give any change full stop. Works in other cities.

liger · 25-01-2013 1:02pm

pushpop wrote: »

. Leo Varadkar needs to give DB a kick up the arse and bring them into the 21st century.

You forget that NTA seems to have more power over DB than DB. While I agree that the Stage based fare should be scraped I differ on the reasoning. A flat fare would surely cut down the lost revenue by fare dodging and people simply paying the 1.65 to go from start to finsh of the route.

As for Leo??? He is way too busy giving an opinion nobody asked for on everything except transport to actually improve transport in Ireland.

LXFlyer · 25-01-2013 1:05pm

The NTA are already planning a simplified fare structure.

However, whatever structure is used, be it zonal, flat or whatever, it has to meet two basic criteria:

1) It is simple for staff and customers to use
2) It does not diminish fare box revenues for the company

Coming up with that is nowhere near as simple as people make out.

liger · 25-01-2013 1:10pm

lxflyer wrote: »

The NTA are already planning a simplified fare structure.

However, whatever structure is used, be it zonal, flat or whatever, it has to meet two basic criteria:

1) It is simple for staff and customers to use
2) It does not diminish fare box revenues for the company

Coming up with that is nowhere near as simple as people make out.

Flat Fare:
€1.50 for kids
€3.00 for adults
DONE.

Can I have a job with the NTA now?

markpb · 25-01-2013 1:19pm

lxflyer wrote: »

The NTA are already planning a simplified fare structure.

However, whatever structure is used, be it zonal, flat or whatever, it has to meet two basic criteria:

1) It is simple for staff and customers to use
2) It does not diminish fare box revenues for the company

Coming up with that is nowhere near as simple as people make out.

Is it not possible that a simplified fare structure might attract more passengers and/or make the existing operations more efficient and save the company money? If they're only looking at maximising revenue per passenger, they're missing the point.

schemingbohemia · 25-01-2013 1:21pm

liger wrote: »

Flat Fare:
€1.50 for kids
€3.00 for adults
DONE.

Can I have a job with the NTA now?

Superb, well done. Now can you go back and give us the answer to the second part of lxflyer's question - you know the bit where Dublin Bus don't go broke because you just decided a figure off the top of your head :rolleyes:

pushpop · 25-01-2013 1:35pm

Dublin Bus carry 500,000 passengers a day, or 182 million per year, on average. Looking at their 2011 financial report, they took in 178 million euros (about 97c per passenger) and spent 270 million, leading to a loss of 48 million when public service obligation payments and other gains are taken into account. They are therefore losing about 27c per passenger carried. So, increasing the fare by the amount lost per passenger takes to a standard fare if 1.24. Not too shabby

LXFlyer · 25-01-2013 1:55pm

markpb wrote: »

Is it not possible that a simplified fare structure might attract more passengers and/or make the existing operations more efficient and save the company money? If they're only looking at maximising revenue per passenger, they're missing the point.

Absolutely, and one would hope that would be the case, but it's also possible that you'll lose customers if a flat fare is too high for people making shorter journeys.

I didn't say anything about revenue per passenger. I said total fare box revenue. I do appreciate the difference.

It's a fundamental change and it's absolutely critical that they get it right.

It is also essential that it happens as the current setup is nonsensically complicated.

HydeRoad · 25-01-2013 4:42pm

Why do we have a child fare? It needlessly complicates things.

If a child goes into Tesco, they don't get a can of coke for half price.

If a child shops online, they don't get a game or music cd for half price.

Children on buses should pay the going fare the same as any other passenger.

Allowing for a mother travelling with children, one child under 12 travelling accompanied by an adult, should travel free. The rest pay. They have pocket money, and can afford expensive clothes, music and food. The kind of real poverty that existed in the 1950s is not there now.

School travel can be covered by proper prepaid school travel passes. Do away with schoolchildren holding up a bus at a bus stop.

Buggies with children should be carried, one per bus, as at present. But there should be a minimum flat fare of €5 to do so. Folded buggies free of charge.

Of course, no politician under the sun is going to allow that kind of broad based thinking. The greater good will always be a hostage to narrow interests and lack of informed thinking.

nokia69 · 25-01-2013 6:18pm

cut the number of bus stops in half, maybe more

really takes the piss how close some stops are

eg. 10 people get on at the first stop, the bus then drives 500m and stops for one person, then drives another 500m and stops again for one person, and both cases the people pay in cash

a total waste of time, there is no reason why they all cant just use the one bus stop

Twoandahalfmen · 25-01-2013 6:33pm

liger wrote: »

Flat Fare:
€1.50 for kids
€3.00 for adults
DONE.

Can I have a job with the NTA now?

I'd rather have the current prices thanks you very much

CIE · 25-01-2013 6:42pm

liger wrote: »

You forget that NTA seems to have more power over DB than DB. While I agree that the Stage based fare should be scraped I differ on the reasoning. A flat fare would surely cut down the lost revenue by fare dodging and people simply paying the €1.65 to go from start to finish of the route.

As for Leo??? He is way too busy giving an opinion nobody asked for on everything except transport to actually improve transport in Ireland.

Why a sum like €1.65 which requires more than two coins? Should be a sum that requires no more than two, perhaps €1.50. And a flat fare would mean no need for all that paper wasted on tickets for cash fares. I do not trust cashless.

BTW, I'm starting to have the opinion that the mad scramble for on-board wifi is one of the things that caused the DB network to shrink, due to the expense of implementation. Why on earth would you want to be plugged into the prolefeed on board a bus? The mobile phone craze was bad enough.

nokia69 wrote: »

cut the number of bus stops in half, maybe more

Not necessary. Institute limited-stop routes along corridors in question; some routes will stop at all stops while the limited-stop routes will stop only at key stops. Should have been done on the Navan Road corridor with 39/39A, and they ought to do it with the 46A, creating the 46 as its limited-stop counterpart; also, the 40/140 can do with such a setup, with the 140 being the limited-stop route on the Finglas Road. There are of course many others...perhaps a return of the 77 to run alongside a south-side 27 which could become limited stop?

nokia69 wrote: »

eg. 10 people get on at the first stop, the bus then drives 500m and stops for one person, then drives another 500m and stops again for one person, and both cases the people pay in cash

a total waste of time, there is no reason why they all cant just use the one bus stop

Really? Now imagine peak times, with perhaps twenty, thirty or more people forced to wait at one stop because the intermediate stops are all gone; and imagine the dwell time at that one stop. And a half-kilometre (1640 feet) is quite a distance to walk, especially in inclement weather and of course when time is a concern. No, the limited-stop idea would work better.

devnull · 25-01-2013 7:21pm

There are some roads when there are 3 stops within 1km. That really is overkill.

CIE · 25-01-2013 7:26pm

devnull wrote: »

There are some roads when there are 3 stops within 1km. That really is overkill.

Main roads or estates?

You should visit some cities in America, where they have no posted bus stops and every street corner is a potential flag stop. Ring the bell for the next stop and the bus will drop off on the next corner. The dwell times on those routes can be (and often are) atrocious.

devnull · 25-01-2013 7:28pm

CIE wrote: »

Main roads or estates?

You should visit some cities in America, where they have no posted bus stops and every street corner is a potential flag stop. Ring the bell for the next stop and the bus will drop off on the next corner. The dwell times on those routes can be (and often are) atrocious.

Seen it on both.

it's too many, on such roads thre should be two maximum. Of all the cities I've been in Dublin is by far the one with the closest together stops, hence why we have stop numbers and not names, to have names would be impossible when stops are close together

CIE · 25-01-2013 7:31pm

I remember when there were three bus stops on Main Street in Leixlip Village. They cut it down to two in the 1980s, and now it's down to two westbound and one eastbound IIRC. The running times of the 66 are worse today than back in the 70s.

devnull · 25-01-2013 7:36pm

That is not exclusively down to the stops being removed though, the fact that most of those passengers are all going through one door, with half of them interacting with a driver and the other half going for one validator.

Tow · 25-01-2013 7:50pm

nokia69 wrote: »

10 people get on at the first stop, the bus then drives 500m and stops for one person

500m! In front of the Mather they are a couple of hundred feet appart. I always thought this was done on purpose to increase the number of 'stages'.

Tow · 25-01-2013 8:02pm

Bring back conductors:

The driver drives = Faster trip times = Less busses required = Lower running costs.

Fares are charged correctly = More revenue for Dublin Bus.

Less Antisocial Behaviour = Better experience for Passengers and Driver, less maintenance required by Dublin Bus. = Lower running costs.

devnull · 25-01-2013 8:05pm

Actually you'll find the savings would be wiped out by the additional wages cost.

The first two can easily be sorted out by flat fare which would not requiring the hiring of extra staff. It's become impossible to underpay if there is a flat fare.

AlekSmart · 25-01-2013 8:59pm

pushpop wrote: »

.
DB needs to give Leo Varadakar a kick up the arse and bring him into the 21st century.

Fixed that for ya pushpop.

Leo V is performing as Mary Harney did when Minister for Health...she could not keep off the media as she vented about Public Transport,whilst her own Department festered and rotted around her ankles.

The extent of Departmental meddling in Dublin Public Transport affairs was always a significant cause of grief to anybody attempting to operate such a service.

By far and away the main cause of the problem was the lack of anybody with Public Transport acumen in the Department..which was,liberally filled with well meaning types who really wanted to be environmentalists or statesmen,but did'nt get enough points in the Leavin...

There was a hope that the NTA would be a breath of fresh air,with new faces bringing new ideas and innovation in general......however that hope is now beginning to wilt I fear....:(

stop · 25-01-2013 10:23pm

CIE wrote: »

Should have been done on the Navan Road corridor with 39/39A, and they ought to do it with the 46A

You really really need to let go of this.

Even if/when DB implement a sensible renumbering scheme, they will keep the 46A. I think you need to accept this.

the groutch · 26-01-2013 1:51am

€3 flat cash fare, €2 for leap
€2 flat for kids, €1 for leap
50c flat fare for all those with travel passes (except those in wheelchairs who still travel free) via leap incorporated into their DSP card.

simple!

26-01-2013 2:00am

On Ballyfermot Road there's two bus stops outside Markievicz Park within about 120m of each other, with the next one about 250m away. They could surely remove one of the stops outside the park.

I'm sure there's plenty more examples around the city.

hfallada · 26-01-2013 2:01am

Why is everyone so obsessed with a flat fare? If you live close to the city eg Glasnevin/ phisborough which is 2 km to the city. No one is going to pay a high flat fare because it's simpler for the driver.

A flat fare will simply encourage people to walk or cycle if they are close to where they are going.

To make revenue charge OAPs. Pretty much every other country in the world charges them half price like a child. Just because they're old doesn't mean they should be entitled to a free transport. Aka making everyone else pay in higher fares.

Also get rid of the ****ty middle management in Dublin bus which contribute nothing to the company. The company is fair from innovative and doesn't need have the managers etc that it has

Also the reason why that Dublin dont give change is stop the bus drivers helping them selves and to stop robberies and not awkwardness

dfx- · 26-01-2013 2:10am

CIE wrote: »

I remember when there were three bus stops on Main Street in Leixlip Village. They cut it down to two in the 1980s, and now it's down to two westbound and one eastbound IIRC. The running times of the 66 are worse today than back in the 70s.

How busy was Leixlip in the 70s?

I don't get the fuss over a flat fare. Zones yes, flat fare is nonsense to me. Also take away bus stops? Why would you first increase a fare, reduce the number of buses running, send the ones that are running from Clondalkin to the Airport and then remove the places you can pick up the buses that are running.

How difficult are people trying to make it to get a bus? Are we soon to fill out a general knowledge quiz form to determine whether you can sit down?

26-01-2013 2:24am

Flat fares work in other places, such as London , it allows you have en extra door for exiting, think when you use a Dublin Bus as to a London Bus, in Dublin everyone waits for exiting passengers before boarding, which slows down the service.

I used to work for securicor in the early 90s and one day a week a rigid truck and 3 guys used to collect the coinage in Donnybrook and deliver that coinage to all the Dunnes stores, I know that was 20 years ago, though handling money costs money.

Also this is my biggest problem with Dublin Bus, Dublin is mostly dependent on it as its public transport system, does anyone in Dublin Bus or CIE etc, aware of 'Networking', you know having hubs, surely they should be a variety of other bus stations around Dublin, lets say around the M50, so you can easily travel from Finglas to Tallaght with out the need to go through town, which the majority of buses go through, you know adopt a similar approach used by airlines.

Del2005 · 26-01-2013 2:54am

Tow wrote: »

Bring back conductors:
Less Antisocial Behaviour = Better experience for Passengers and Driver, less maintenance required by Dublin Bus. = Lower running costs.

This may have worked back in the good auld days, was there every a good auld day?, but the current legeal system is setup that a conductor has no power over the majority of people who do antisocial acts.

People who are willing to take hard drugs on public transport during the day, or gangs of drunken people, aren't afraid of a person with a purse. Look at the amount of hassle security guards at shops have and even the STT on the LUAS have issues with the Gardaí when they remove antisocial passengers scum.

If 3 or 4 bigs lads in fatigues don't faze scumbags there's no hope of a conductor getting anything other than abuse, at best.

CIE · 26-01-2013 6:47am

dfx- wrote: »

How busy was Leixlip in the 70s?

I don't get the fuss over a flat fare. Zones yes, flat fare is nonsense to me. Also take away bus stops? Why would you first increase a fare, reduce the number of buses running, send the ones that are running from Clondalkin to the Airport and then remove the places you can pick up the buses that are running.

How difficult are people trying to make it to get a bus? Are we soon to fill out a general knowledge quiz form to determine whether you can sit down?

You'd be surprised at how busy things were in the 70s. They look a bit busier now due to all that ridiculous narrowing of streets and pedestrianisation.

I've proposed either flat fares or zone-based fares. The thing about flat fares is that they are not nonsense when it comes to OPO; they work best with OPO if you want to shorten dwell times, and frankly, if people know that they only have to worry about paying one fare no matter how far you have to go, they'd be more encouraged to ride the bus versus having to worry about paying a higher fare the further you ride.

hfallada wrote: »

A flat fare will simply encourage people to walk or cycle if they are close to where they are going

What, like they don't do that already? It's really necessary to consider riding the bus for just a few short stops?

Don't presume flat fares to be "high" either (e.g. route 90). New York City's flat fare is about €1.67 at the time of writing, just for one example; you can ride the subway system to any station you please (there are many free transfers, and the longest line measures about 30 miles), so you can get some real value out of a flat fare; the fare includes a free transfer to a bus route, which works in either direction (e.g. getting on a bus works for a free transfer to a subway train or another bus), so there's a lot of flexibility. (€1.67 kinda beats €2.45 for a distance of maybe five miles or a great deal more, maybe?)

NoDrama wrote: »

(Is) anyone in Dublin Bus or CIE etc, aware of 'Networking', you know having hubs, surely they should be a variety of other bus stations around Dublin, lets say around the M50, so you can easily travel from Finglas to Tallaght with out the need to go through town, which the majority of buses go through, you know adopt a similar approach used by airlines

I myself have always felt that Dublin does not have enough cross-city routes going east-west; 17, 17A, 18, 75 etc. and they do need quite a few more. There was a bit of a start to that with the DART feeder routes, but then it kinda stopped due to more of a focus on connecting to DART stations instead of actually focusing on the communities they go through. There's still no proper cross-city route for Griffith Avenue (should be one going Clontarf-Finglas at least), for example.

AlekSmart · 26-01-2013 9:26pm

hfallada wrote: »

Why is everyone so obsessed with a flat fare? If you live close to the city eg Glasnevin/ phisborough which is 2 km to the city. No one is going to pay a high flat fare because it's simpler for the driver.

A flat fare will simply encourage people to walk or cycle if they are close to where they are going.

It should be noted that this is a specifc goal of the NTA's strategy for Dublin's future Transport Development.

To make revenue charge OAPs. Pretty much every other country in the world charges them half price like a child. Just because they're old doesn't mean they should be entitled to a free transport. Aka making everyone else pay in higher fares.

The current shambles which is the DSP Free Travel Scheme very much needs attention,however all myself and my colleagues see is a significant increase in brand new non-OAP Free Travel Passes being presented

Also get rid of the ****ty middle management in Dublin bus which contribute nothing to the company. The company is far from innovative and doesn't need have the managers etc that it has.

Valid enough point,however Innovation,to be meaningful,requires a budget and a degree of application to succeed...currently neither attributes loom large on Dublin's horizon.

Also the reason why that Dublin dont give change is stop the bus drivers helping them selves and to stop robberies and not awkwardness

Upon reading this I had to immediately scroll back up to check if another poster had hi-jacked your keyboard...;)

Phew !!!

monument · 27-01-2013 2:17am

devnull wrote: »

There are some roads when there are 3 stops within 1km. That really is overkill.

Karsini wrote: »

On Ballyfermot Road there's two bus stops outside Markievicz Park within about 120m of each other, with the next one about 250m away. They could surely remove one of the stops outside the park.

I'm sure there's plenty more examples around the city.

Ballymun Road northbound has six stops between Griffith Avenue and Collins Avenue, which is just over 1km. There's four stops southbound in the same space.

djpbarry · 28-01-2013 3:37pm

pushpop wrote: »

Three suggestions for Dublin Bus...

Fourth suggestion: rather than telling passengers that the bus is stopping, how about a display that tells them where the bus is stopping. Not difficult to implement in this day and age.

CIE wrote: »

I do not trust cashless.

Why not? Works fine in plenty of other cities?

devnull wrote: »

Of all the cities I've been in Dublin is by far the one with the closest together stops...

It's probably worse in London - stops are often only 100 - 200 metres apart.

LeinsterDub · 28-01-2013 3:44pm

hfallada wrote: »

Why is everyone so obsessed with a flat fare? If you live close to the city eg Glasnevin/ phisborough which is 2 km to the city. No one is going to pay a high flat fare because it's simpler for the driver.

It's 2.40/2.10 (using leap) already . I'd happily pay 2.50 leap flat fare if it allowed transfers.

vitani · 28-01-2013 4:03pm

I lived in Edinburgh for a while and one of the bus companies there had two rates for adults - £1.20 for a single trip, no matter what the distance, or £3.00 for a day ticket. I'd love to see similar pricing brought in here.

28-01-2013 4:27pm

djpbarry wrote: »

Fourth suggestion: rather than telling passengers that the bus is stopping, how about a display that tells them where the bus is stopping. Not difficult to implement in this day and age.

The new GT class have this implemented. Some of the EVs do too.

KD345 · 28-01-2013 4:31pm

djpbarry wrote: »

Fourth suggestion: rather than telling passengers that the bus is stopping, how about a display that tells them where the bus is stopping. Not difficult to implement in this day and age.

This is now fitted on all new buses. There are over 80 buses in service giving this information.

Dravokivich · 28-01-2013 5:14pm

CIE wrote: »

It's really necessary to consider riding the bus for just a few short stops?

Yeah, when I've bags of messages to be carrying after I've done me shop. No point walking up and down just to fill the back pack.

CIE · 28-01-2013 5:27pm

Dravokivich wrote: »

Yeah, when I've bags of messages to be carrying after I've done me shop. No point walking up and down just to fill the back pack.

Why carry "bags of messages" at all? Using the bus for that is not part of the intended use of a bus, especially for going but a few stops. The way we used to do it when I was young was to invest in a small personal shopping trolley and walk to/from the shops; using the bus to go on a shopping trip that required "bags of messages" versus one or two bags meant that several people go, and its for a trip into town (several miles each way) and back home with each person carrying part of the load (and even back in the 70s and 80s, people drove for that purpose).

Dravokivich · 28-01-2013 5:34pm

Not it's intended use? As a commuter, it's use is to aid me commuting. As is with many others. That is the manner of which it's required for me and many others. Otherwise, why would it terminate at a shopping centre?

Anita Blow · 28-01-2013 6:17pm

I'm not clued into all this, just commenting as a normal commuter.
Where's the benefit for me in a flat fare being introduced? Someone suggested €3 flat fare for adults, so for myself and I'd imagine the vast majority of people on one of my normal bus routes (102), this would be nothing but a massive fare increase as the majority of journeys on that route are between the Pavilions and Malahide, or the airport and Swords village, neither of which is more than a €1.95 journey.
Also, a flat fare would all but decimate passenger numbers on the 41a/b/c route. The only advantage DB has over Swords Express, which competes with the 41 routes, is the smaller price (Used to be around 2.40 I think before the recent price increase) versus €4 for SE at peak times, and €3 at off-peak times.

markpb · 28-01-2013 6:22pm

Anita Blow wrote: »

Where's the benefit for me in a flat fare being introduce

The main advantages are:
- simpler fare system so people don't need to work out their fare in advance. Makes the service more appealing to new customers
- simpler fare system so less need to interact with the driver so people board faster which keeps the bus moving
- less dwell time mean that the bus and driver are more efficient and peoples journeys are faster

I would guess/hope that anyone advocating a fixed €3 fare would also advocate a substantially reduced Leap card fare to encourage people to use Leap rather than pay cash. This means no interaction at all with the driver and reduces DB cash handling costs.

The trick is finding a fixed fare which isn't so high as to discourage existing customers but not so low as to cost DB too much money.

djpbarry · 28-01-2013 6:25pm

markpb wrote: »

I would guess/hope that anyone advocating a fixed €3 fare would also advocate a substantially reduced Leap card fare to encourage people to use Leap rather than pay cash.

The flat fares in London, if anyone is interested, is £2.40 cash and £1.40 with an Oyster.

Anita Blow · 28-01-2013 6:35pm

markpb wrote: »

The main advantages are:
- simpler fare system so people don't need to work out their fare in advance. Makes the service more appealing to new customers
- simpler fare system so less need to interact with the driver so people board faster which keeps the bus moving
- less dwell time mean that the bus and driver are more efficient and peoples journeys are faster

I would guess/hope that anyone advocating a fixed €3 fare would also advocate a substantially reduced Leap card fare to encourage people to use Leap rather than pay cash. This means no interaction at all with the driver and reduces DB cash handling costs.

The trick is finding a fixed fare which isn't so high as to discourage existing customers but not so low as to cost DB too much money.

But I guess the question is, do those 3 advantages matter that much to the average commuter that they're worth nearly a 30% increase in cash fares (I use leap but since no estimates for what leap fares would be I can't comment). I know among people here, dwell times and ease of purchasing fares are a big deal, but to be honest if I were to ask any of my friends or any random commuter whether they'd prefer a 30% increase in their fare or to keep the status quo, I could guarantee they'd choose the status quo.

I don't think the fare system is that confusing. Maybe at key bus stops like in the city and airports etc. you could have ticket machines at the bus stops for tourists to simplify it for them, but I don't think that a whole bus fare system should be overhauled just for tourists/new users, at the expense of the vast majority of passengers which are commuters or casual users who are use to the current system.

A step towards increasing efficiency would be reducing the amount of bus stops as has been mentioned. Just down the road there is 2 bus stops within a 1 minute walk from each other.

CIE · 28-01-2013 6:36pm

djpbarry wrote: »

The flat fares in London, if anyone is interested, is £2.40 cash and £1.40 with an Oyster.

That's €2.80 and €1.64 respectively. I do not see why a Dublin flat fare has to be higher, or even anywhere near as high, nor why there should be a discount for the non-cash medium.

NYC's flat fares still work out to €1.67, and that goes up to €1.86 for those who buy the single-ride Metrocard. They've gone cashless on buses, so you have to get tickets or Metrocards from vendors or machines.

markpb · 28-01-2013 6:42pm

Anita Blow wrote: »

But I guess the question is, do those 3 advantages matter that much to the average commuter that they're worth nearly a 30% increase in cash fares

Absolutely true but I put it to you that the average commuter should not be paying cash fares - they should be using prepaid weekly or monthly tickets or Leap with automatic weekly capping. The idea behind a high cash fare is to encourage those people to make the move to some form of prepaid ticket (weekly or Leapcard ePurse).

Anita Blow · 28-01-2013 6:57pm

That would mean DB and the NTA would have to get their ass together and institute a cap in the first place!

The reality is though that I'm the only one out of anyone I know, apart from 1 other person, who even uses Leap. None of the others know about it or it's benefits so I guess to them, a sudden increase in their fare will just discourage them from using the bus at all, at least initially.

I just think a staged system is fairer because either way I look at it, a flat-fare system is going to cost me extra. My fare has already seen an increase of 22% since 2009, and that's with the Leap fare today. For those still using cash it's an even bigger fare increase, and this flat fare would only serve as another bigger increase.

CIE · 28-01-2013 7:11pm

Anita Blow wrote: »

That would mean DB and the NTA would have to get their ass together and institute a cap in the first place!

The reality is though that I'm the only one out of anyone I know, apart from 1 other person, who even uses Leap. None of the others know about it or its benefits so I guess to them, a sudden increase in their fare will just discourage them from using the bus at all, at least initially.

I just think a staged system is fairer because either way I look at it, a flat-fare system is going to cost me extra. My fare has already seen an increase of 22% since 2009, and that's with the Leap fare today. For those still using cash it's an even bigger fare increase, and this flat fare would only serve as another bigger increase

It's already €1.65 for a three-stage bus ride. New York City's flat fare is but two red euro cent higher (at current exchange rates) and you can travel 30 miles or further if you so wish. Please define "fair(er)" and put it in context.

Anita Blow · 28-01-2013 7:20pm

CIE wrote: »

It's already €1.65 for a three-stage bus ride. New York City's flat fare is but two red euro cent higher (at current exchange rates) and you can travel 30 miles or further if you so wish. Please define "fair(er)" and put it in context.

Fair to me is pay for what you use. I don't see why a person only using 3 stages should pay the same as someone going the entire route.
In reality, the average commuter isn't going to care what the fare is in New York. They're just going to see yet another increase in their fare here in Dublin. It doesn't matter if a person can travel an extra 30 miles for the money if they want with the new higher fare, because that makes zero difference to what I'd guess is the majority of passengers who rarely use the entire line. I get the 102 at the Pavilions and travel to Malahide village which now costs me €1.95. I rarely, if ever, go further, and I have never or will never have the need to travel the full route to Sutton so I have no need for the ability to travel the entire route at a higher, flat fare.

LXFlyer · 28-01-2013 8:28pm

CIE wrote: »

Why carry "bags of messages" at all? Using the bus for that is not part of the intended use of a bus, especially for going but a few stops. The way we used to do it when I was young was to invest in a small personal shopping trolley and walk to/from the shops; using the bus to go on a shopping trip that required "bags of messages" versus one or two bags meant that several people go, and its for a trip into town (several miles each way) and back home with each person carrying part of the load (and even back in the 70s and 80s, people drove for that purpose).

What planet are you living on?

That is utter and absolute nonsense. Buses are there to carry everyone, for long and short journeys. Given your hatred of the "nanny state" you are totally contradicting yourself with this statement. I don't recall any edict to this effect or was I off school the day that they taught you this?

So say I head into the shops on my way home from work, should I have brought my trolley with me all day to and from work or do I have to go home to collect it first thereby wasting time? And what about those of us who don't have a car?

You post some humdingers, but that post is nothing but utter and total tripe.

Victor · 28-01-2013 9:51pm

CIE wrote: »

immature gits that have low reading comprehension

Behave

lxflyer wrote: »

What planet are you living on?

...

You post some humdingers, but that post is nothing but utter and total tripe.

Diplomacy wouldn't go astray.

Victor
Moderator

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