Oily Patch beside boiler

IsThisOneFree · 26-06-2015 9:37am #1

Hi All

We've just recently moved from solid fuel to oil, and have installed an outdoor oil bolier. Sometimes I've noticed that when the boiler is running, I can very often smell kerosene while I'm outside, even though I may not be near the boiler - depending on what way the wind is blowing. Is this considered normal ?

Also, I've noticed a oily patch at once side of the boiler. The boiler is up against a wall, and I can see a small outside on the boiler facing the wall. I suspected that the whatever is causing the patch might be coming from there. I mentioned it to the plumber, but he said that it's not (I *think* he said the outlet I'm referring to is for condensation only ... although I've never known an oil boiler to run off water :-) ). He came back and had a look at the oily patch, and left a note to say that it's sorted now (we were not here at the time).

He removed some of the chippings where the oily patch was, but now once again I can see that the new chippings there are also showing an oily patch.

I'm concerned that these two may be related. The reason why we got concerned about the smell is because, on one occasion when the wind was blowing in a certain direction, we could smell the oil in the house.

Sorry for the long, and confusing post. But anybody have any thoughts on what could be causing this oily patch ? And should I be concerned about it, and/or the smell ?

Thanks in advance

Wearb · 26-06-2015 9:58am

What sort of paperwork did the installer leave? Did you get a combustion printout? Was it a new boiler?

There should be zero leaks. Post a pic of boiler and also the oily patch.
If you are worried get to plumber back or a service person to have a look.
It should be a perfect job at this stage.

Btw, condensing boilers do produce water (slightly acidic ) but that should not be flowing on to the ground.

IsThisOneFree · 26-06-2015 10:51am

Thanks for the quick reply.

Yea actually that's a good point that I had meant to follow-up on (the paperwork) ... we got none. Had been meaning to mention it to him but completely forgot. Can I ask, what paperwork should I be getting ?

Point taken on the water

I've posted two images below - hope they come out OK. You can see the outlet at the back that I'm referring to, and although it doesn't show very well in the photo, you can see that the oily patch goes up the wall too, so I'm pretty confident that whatever is causing this patch is coming from that outlet. And this patch is definitely not water.

hllfl6q31

Do you want a picture of the full boiler too ? If so, I can do that. It's a Warmflow, but I don't remember the model, and it's not written on it

I've asked the plumber to come back again, but as he's already looked at this problem once and not fixed it, I'm starting to loose confidence is his abilities. Hence why I'd like to understand the problem better myself so that I can have a decent conversation with him about it. Failing that, I'll just have to get another plumber to have a look.

Thanks again for your help

IsThisOneFree · 26-06-2015 10:54am

Images don't seem to be coming through for some reason. But you can view them in the two links below (they're perfectly safe, I promise)

http://postimg.org/image/hllfl6q31/
http://postimg.org/image/zcx1zn5hp/

Also forgot to add - yes, it's a new boiler

Wearb · 26-06-2015 11:18am

That first pic appears to show an incorrectly installed condensate outlet.

Second pic certainly looks like oil.

A pic of the whole boiler and a pic with that front cover removed would be helpful. Removing that front cover may help you to see where that leak is coming from.

You should have gotten an invoice detailing the installation costs incl boiler. Also you should have gotten a commissioning report that should include a combustion efficiency printout from the commissioning person's Flue Gas Analyser

IsThisOneFree · 26-06-2015 12:02pm

That first pic appears to show an incorrectly installed condensate outlet

That's concerning ... thanks for letting me know. If he's not admitting that anything is installed incorrectly, then I guess I'll have no choice but to pay another installer to have a look

The first and second pics are both the same area ... the first pic is really just a close up of the back area of the second pic (so that you can see the outlet I'm referring to). If you look at the bottom of the first pic, you'll notice that the stones and the cement block are both wet ... that's not water, that's the "oily patch"

If the condensate outlet is indeed the source of the oil, should I be concerned ?

I'll try to get some more pics shortly and upload.

Wearb · 26-06-2015 12:14pm

They are both seperate problems and normally easily sorted.
Ask your plumber back to sort it and ask for those documents. Especially boiler passport/commissioning report. Go easy on him at first, but if unsatisfactory response, threaten to get somebody in to sort it. Tell him you will send him the bill and will pursue him for all costs by all means necessary.
Don't take such a hard line until you have exhausted all avenues with him.

jimf · 26-06-2015 11:38pm

Wearb wrote: »

That first pic appears to show an incorrectly installed condensate outlet.

Second pic certainly looks like oil.

A pic of the whole boiler and a pic with that front cover removed would be helpful. Removing that front cover may help you to see where that leak is coming from.

You should have gotten an invoice detailing the installation costs incl boiler. Also you should have gotten a commissioning report that should include a combustion efficiency printout from the commissioning person's Flue Gas Analyser

+1

JamesM · 28-06-2015 10:29am

You can see the oil line entering the side of the casing. If you remove the front cover with the special key that should have been left with you, you should be able to see where the oil is leaking from. It is likely the oil filter, but could be any of the joints or connections. It could also be from the burner and that would need expert attention.
Jim.

IsThisOneFree · 12-07-2015 10:46am

Really sorry for not coming back to this earlier. So, the plumber came back (again, while we were away) - from what I can see, the leak appears to have been fixed ... I need to put in some fresh stones around it and see if the get stained. However, the smell when the booklet us running has not gone away :-( I had assumed that the two were related, but looks like I might be wrong. Any thoughts on what could be the cause ? Or is this exactly why I should be asking him about the emissions tests ?

Also, with regard to the condensate unit, what exactly is wrong with it ? Is it just the fact that it's up against the wall, rather than into an open area where it can evaporate easily ?

Also found another problem too, but it's with the tank, so I'll start a new thread.

Thanks again for all the replies, much appreciated

Dtp1979 · 12-07-2015 12:05pm

IsThisOneFree wrote: »

Really sorry for not coming back to this earlier. So, the plumber came back (again, while we were away) - from what I can see, the leak appears to have been fixed ... I need to put in some fresh stones around it and see if the get stained. However, the smell when the booklet us running has not gone away :-( I had assumed that the two were related, but looks like I might be wrong. Any thoughts on what could be the cause ? Or is this exactly why I should be asking him about the emissions tests ?

Also, with regard to the condensate unit, what exactly is wrong with it ? Is it just the fact that it's up against the wall, rather than into an open area where it can evaporate easily ?

Also found another problem too, but it's with the tank, so I'll start a new thread.

Thanks again for all the replies, much appreciated

It's a rough installation. Boiler on blocks, condensate piped like that. It should be piped and insulated into a drain or purpose built soak way with limestone.
Did your installer commission the boiler ? Your boiler is a warmflow, and any I've seen have ALWAYS had CO of 500ppm on the flue gas analysis until they're set up properly.
You should have received a printout of the flue gas analysis or it'd be written on the boiler passport. Check this cause it's very important.

IsThisOneFree · 12-07-2015 3:09pm

Thanks for the reply. Never got the passport, it's yet another thing I'll have to pursue him on and see what the measurements are. I presume the output should give me an "acceptable range" aling with the actual measurement ? Or some other way for me to identify that the measurements are satisfactory, right ?

Out of curiosity, what works be an acceptable CO measurement ? Am I right in saying it shuttle be around 100ppm ?

Thanks again to everybody for all your input. It's quiet frustrating that I'm having to do all this research myself rather than being able to trust the guy who is being paid a few grand to do this. To answer your question dtp, yes, same guy commissioned the boiler and done the installation (or if he did get somebody else to commission it, he certainly didn't tell me)

Dtp1979 · 12-07-2015 5:27pm

IsThisOneFree wrote: »

Thanks for the reply. Never got the passport, it's yet another thing I'll have to pursue him on and see what the measurements are. I presume the output should give me an "acceptable range" aling with the actual measurement ? Or some other way for me to identify that the measurements are satisfactory, right ?

Out of curiosity, what works be an acceptable CO measurement ? Am I right in saying it shuttle be around 100ppm ?

Thanks again to everybody for all your input. It's quiet frustrating that I'm having to do all this research myself rather than being able to trust the guy who is being paid a few grand to do this. To answer your question dtp, yes, same guy commissioned the boiler and done the installation (or if he did get somebody else to commission it, he certainly didn't tell me)

Standard CO would be 20-50 but on warmflow they seem to settle around 60, which is high but that's as good as it goes. Check inside the door of the boiler for the passport. It's about 8x4" and green. A copy of the commissioning report is sent to the manufacturer too so you could always ring them either. Ask the installer does he own a flue gas analyser,

IsThisOneFree · 31-07-2015 11:12am

Hi All

Sorry it's taken me a while to get back to this. So the leak got sorted, apparently there was a screw/nut which wasn't tightened enough ... not 100% sure I buy that, but it certainly seems to have stopped leaking, so that's the important bit. Sorted out the key and the passport also, and the smell seems to be a lot better. I've still noticed the occasional smell (while I'm standing outside, on the opposite side of the house from the boiler, a good 20 feet away) - but usually only when the boiler has started up first. Are these occasional smells normal ? Or should I be expecting zero ?

Also checked the passport ... CO measurement is 26 ppm

Wearb · 31-07-2015 11:46am

Did you get a printout of the combustion report?
26ppm is fine, but there are other figures to consider.

Dtp1979 · 31-07-2015 11:52am

Wearb wrote: »

Did you get a printout of the combustion report?
26ppm is fine, but there are other figures to consider.

The passport will have the emissions on it

Wearb · 31-07-2015 11:55am

Dtp1979 wrote: »

The passport will have the emissions on it

You can make up figures for the passport. That is why I mentioned a printout.

Dtp1979 · 31-07-2015 1:08pm

Wearb wrote: »

You can make up figures for the passport. That is why I mentioned a printout.

Quite true. And 26ppm is actually quite low for a warmflow condensing boiler

Wearb · 31-07-2015 3:20pm

Dtp1979 wrote: »

Quite true. And 26ppm is actually quite low for a warmflow condensing boiler

Yes difficult to get it that low while keeping orher settings within spec.

We are hard taskmasters dtp, but I hate to see see people well paid for sloppy work. Then when we spend a half an hour longer, we seem to be slow.

IsThisOneFree · 07-08-2015 10:53am

Thanks for the replies everyone. I've been away for a few days but I'll try to get the details off the passport over the weekend.

IsThisOneFree · 07-08-2015 10:54am

ps ... no printout, only the passport. I know they could be made up, but I'm hoping he wouldn't stoop that low.

Dtp1979 · 07-08-2015 11:05am

IsThisOneFree wrote: »

ps ... no printout, only the passport. I know they could be made up, but I'm hoping he wouldn't stoop that low.

You'd be surprised. Take a pic of the whole passport page where it shows the emissions and analyser readings. It's all on the one page. Obviously don't show the installers name!

Oily Patch beside boiler

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