Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

New glass in existing frames vs new windows. which one?

Options
  • 25-05-2015 10:57pm
    #1
    Galego
    Registered Users Posts: 1,231 ✭✭✭


    i,
    I have double pvc window frames. 20 years old and in ok conditions. Although the glass in many of them is gone. There is condensation between the glasses and some are so bad that you can't even see through the glass.

    My options are:
    1- replace glass in existing frames, or
    2- replace frames all together.

    Which one to go with and the reason?

    At which price different would you consider to go with new frames?


Comments

  • Options
    #2
    Dudda
    Registered Users Posts: 1,541 ✭✭✭Dudda


    Galego wrote: »
    i,
    I have double pvc window frames. 20 years old and in ok conditions. Although the glass in many of them is gone. There is condensation between the glasses and some are so bad that you can't even see through the glass.

    My options are:
    1- replace glass in existing frames, or
    2- replace frames all together.

    Which one to go with and the reason?

    At which price different would you consider to go with new frames?

    New frames. The seals will be new, new windows are usually thermally broken and more efficient. New window generally have stronger locks and are more secure. You can also chose new colours and opening sizes if you want. For example a larger opening from a bedroom should you wish to escape in a fire or emergency. You could also reposition an opening if you have any hard to reach ones like over a deep kitchen worktop. Loads of positive reasons although they may not all apply to you.


  • Options
    #3
    pauldavis123
    Registered Users Posts: 354 ✭✭pauldavis123


    New glass is a scam ;-)


  • Options
    #4
    Galego
    Registered Users Posts: 1,231 ✭✭✭Galego


    pauldavis123 wrote: »
    New glass is a scam ;-)

    How is that? Because the more I research the more I think that is the way around. The new generation of DG is able to achieve 1.1 in a thickness of 24mm (4+16+4).


  • Options
    #5
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,061 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Galego wrote: »
    How is that? Because the more I research the more I think that is the way around. The new generation of DG is able to achieve 1.1 in a thickness of 24mm (4+20+4).

    4+20+4 = 28 mm


  • Options
    #6
    Galego
    Registered Users Posts: 1,231 ✭✭✭Galego


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    4+20+4 = 28 mm

    Need to go back to the school! :-(


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #7
    pauldavis123
    Registered Users Posts: 354 ✭✭pauldavis123


    The frame itself, the way it's fitted and sealed to the opening, the seals on any sashes and the level of wear on the window all need to be taken into account.

    They are the weak point of any house and need to be done right ;-)


  • Options
    #8
    Galego
    Registered Users Posts: 1,231 ✭✭✭Galego


    pauldavis123 wrote: »
    The frame itself, the way it's fitted and sealed to the opening, the seals on any sashes and the level of wear on the window all need to be taken into account.

    They are the weak point of any house and need to be done right ;-)

    I would take your argument any day for those cases in which windows have been fitted correctly in the first place or there has been excessive wear in the window. But from that to say that new glass is a scam there is a long way. :-) :-)

    Glass is still one of the most important (if not the most) component of a window.

    Still indecisive which way to go. Obviously new standard DG frames (1.5 u value) are 280% the cost of retrofitting DG glass of 1.1 u value.


  • Options
    #9
    pauldavis123
    Registered Users Posts: 354 ✭✭pauldavis123


    Seals on the sashes are the most important on an older window but granted the glass is also.

    I still think its a scam ;-)


  • Options
    #10
    Galego
    Registered Users Posts: 1,231 ✭✭✭Galego


    pauldavis123 wrote: »
    Seals on the sashes are the most important on an older window but granted the glass is also.

    I still think its a scam ;-)

    Could you not just change the seals? :)


  • Options
    #11
    pauldavis123
    Registered Users Posts: 354 ✭✭pauldavis123


    Your call, I would get new windows ;-)


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #12
    newstyle
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 60 ✭✭newstyle


    New windows will be for another 30 years, are you sure the old ones will keep that long?


  • Options
    #13
    Galego
    Registered Users Posts: 1,231 ✭✭✭Galego


    newstyle wrote: »
    New windows will be for another 30 years, are you sure the old ones will keep that long?

    Surely not but I retrofitted myself 7 windows with A rated glass for the price of a new window. :-)


  • Options
    #14
    newstyle
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 60 ✭✭newstyle


    Galego wrote:
    Surely not but I retrofitted myself 7 windows with A rated glass for the price of a new window. :-)


    A rated are triple glazed ?


  • Options
    #15
    BryanF
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 10,140 Mod ✭✭✭✭BryanF


    Galego wrote: »
    Surely not but I retrofitted myself 7 windows with A rated glass for the price of a new window. :-)

    So now you just have condensation on the frames ?


  • Options
    #16
    Galego
    Registered Users Posts: 1,231 ✭✭✭Galego


    newstyle wrote: »
    A rated are triple glazed ?

    Double glazed A rate - 1.1 u value.


  • Options
    #17
    Galego
    Registered Users Posts: 1,231 ✭✭✭Galego


    BryanF wrote: »
    So now you just have condensation on the frames ?

    Early days but I have not noticed condensation on the frames but on the inside glass.

    I also fitted a new triple glazed insulated frame window in a garage conversion and this one gets condensation in the outside glass which is a bit annoying.....

    Why is the condensation happening in the outside glass in that triple glaze? Any idea?


  • Options
    #18
    braftery
    Registered Users Posts: 242 ✭✭braftery


    Condensation on the outside of the a 3G glass package occurs because the window is working well. Keeping the dew point (4deg C) on the outer pane of glass in the package.

    It is the same reason that condensation happens on the inside of the glass when you sleep in a cold room.

    You will probably find this occurs in early spring and late autumn.

    The difference between fitting new glass and new windows is more than a calculation of U-Values.

    Do you have any air leaks in you old windows ?
    Can these be fixed by servicing ? or replacement of seals ?

    If your old windows are performing well except of failed glass packages then the difference in just U-Values between changing glass to achieve approx 1.9-2.0 Window U-Value, or change the window to achieve a Window 0.9 U-Value (3G with warm edge spacers).

    I recommend 3G with Warm edge spacer because given the small percentage difference the glass will cost in relation to the overall refurb cost.


  • Options
    #19
    braftery
    Registered Users Posts: 242 ✭✭braftery


    Condensation on the outside of the a 3G glass package occurs because the window is working well. Keeping the dew point (4deg C) on the outer pane of glass in the package.

    It is the same reason that condensation happens on the inside of the glass when you sleep in a cold room.

    You will probably find this occurs in early spring and late autumn.

    The difference between fitting new glass and new windows is more than a calculation of U-Values.

    Do you have any air leaks in you old windows ?
    Can these be fixed by servicing ? or replacement of seals ?

    If your old windows are performing well except of failed glass packages then the difference in just U-Values between changing glass to achieve approx 1.9-2.0 Window U-Value, or change the window to achieve a Window 0.9 U-Value (3G with warm edge spacers).

    I recommend 3G with Warm edge spacer because given the small percentage difference the glass will cost in relation to the overall refurb cost.


  • Options
    #20
    braftery
    Registered Users Posts: 242 ✭✭braftery


    Condensation on the outside of the a 3G glass package occurs because the window is working well. Keeping the dew point (4deg C) on the outer pane of glass in the package.

    It is the same reason that condensation happens on the inside of the glass when you sleep in a cold room.

    You will probably find this occurs in early spring and late autumn.

    The difference between fitting new glass and new windows is more than a calculation of U-Values.

    Do you have any air leaks in you old windows ?
    Can these be fixed by servicing ? or replacement of seals ?

    If your old windows are performing well except of failed glass packages then the difference in just U-Values between changing glass to achieve approx 1.9-2.0 Window U-Value, or change the window to achieve a Window 0.9 U-Value (3G with warm edge spacers).

    I recommend 3G with Warm edge spacer because given the small percentage difference the glass will cost in relation to the overall refurb cost.


  • Options
    #21
    Galego
    Registered Users Posts: 1,231 ✭✭✭Galego


    braftery wrote: »

    I recommend 3G with Warm edge spacer because given the small percentage difference the glass will cost in relation to the overall refurb cost.

    I personally think that if you talk about windows u-values it is only fair you consider all insulating factors in the house. Best TG windows are going to do little, if nothing, in a badly insulated house (ber D1+).

    I also think Ireland doesn't even need TG should the house be well built and insulated. But that is a total different topic.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #22
    newstyle
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 60 ✭✭newstyle


    Galego wrote:
    I also think Ireland doesn't even need TG should the house be well built and insulated. But that is a total different topic.

    Galego wrote:
    I personally think that if you talk about windows u-values it is only fair you consider all insulating factors in the house. Best TG windows are going to do little, if nothing, in a badly insulated house (ber D1+).


    I agree with you, but in my opinion after new windows, external insulation should be a next step. This can give you not only a warm house but new look for the house also.


  • Options
    #23
    braftery
    Registered Users Posts: 242 ✭✭braftery


    Galego wrote: »
    I personally think that if you talk about windows u-values it is only fair you consider all insulating factors in the house. Best TG windows are going to do little, if nothing, in a badly insulated house (ber D1+).

    I totally agree.
    Galego wrote: »
    I also think Ireland doesn't even need TG should the house be well built and insulated. But that is a total different topic.

    3G will always give a better performance and a more stable temperature within a well built and insulated house. If installing 3G costs less than the performance gain than it is value for money.


Advertisement