Test backlog will be zero - Cullen

Navan Junction · 08-06-2006 12:53am #1

Michael O'Regan, Irish Times, 08/06/2006

Minister for Transport Martin Cullen repeated his intention to eliminate the backlog of driving tests by the middle of next year.

"That means having a waiting list of no more than 50,000 that can be reduced in a 10- or 12-week period," he said.

Mr Cullen said that seven civil servants from the Department of Agriculture had commenced working as driver-testers last month and would conduct tests this year and next. This gave an annual additional capacity of about 10,000 tests.

Six further driver-testers on two-year contracts were due to commence training, with five more being trained thereafter, providing additional capacity of about 15,000 in a full year.

A bonus scheme for driver-testers had been operating since February, with the testers having the potential to deliver up to 40,000 tests over the course of the year, said Mr Cullen.

The final element, he added, was to outsource a block of tests to an agency.

Negotiations on this aspect had reached a position last week where Kieran Mulvey, chief executive of the Labour Relations Commission, recommended proposals enabling this to be implemented.

Labour spokeswoman Róisín Shortall said Ireland was probably the only State in Europe which allowed learners to drive unaccompanied.

"There is an underlying demand for approximately 177,000 tests per year without taking account of the backlog. By my reckoning, by the end of 2007, the waiting time for the driving test will be only reduced to 26 to 28 weeks," she said.

Mr Cullen said the system was out of date and incapable of handling the demands of modern living as much as the modern requirements for good testing.

"Many tests are lost each year due to people not turning up."

© The Irish Times

Victor · 08-06-2006 6:31am

Michael O'Regan, Irish Times wrote:

Labour spokeswoman Róisín Shortall said Ireland was probably the only State in Europe which allowed learners to drive unaccompanied.

This may be changing. New learners will have "Learner Permits" under the Road Traffic Bill 2006, so the stupid unaccompanied second provisional fiasco be phased out, but not until after the election.

Bluetonic · 08-06-2006 9:53am

Thought this would be worth banging in here.

Cancellation of 1,300 driving tests 'unavoidable'
08/06/2006 - 09:45:51

The cancellation of more than 1,300 driving tests to allow testers to debate privatisation plans aimed at reducing the backlog was unavoidable, it was claimed today.

Tom Hoare, secretary general of IMPACT, which represents the state driving testers, said their extraordinary general meeting could not be held in the evening or at the weekend.

He said: “The tests themselves are cancelled because we are at the end of a process which has culminated in over 12 months of negotiations on a dispute over outsourcing.

“Driving testers are already working six days a week, Saturday included, up to 9pm in the evening, so it is not physically possible to get them together on any other day, other than a Sunday.

“As it happens, this weekend some other people dealing with the issue aren’t available.”

He said the State had also been emphasising the need for urgent action on the matter.

Around 1,300 learner drivers due to sit their tests today were told at short notice that their tests would have to be cancelled and rescheduled to a later date to make way for the union’s meeting.

“Any test that was cancelled will be rearranged at very short notice. There is no question of people going to the end of the waiting list,” Mr Hoare told RTE Radio.

Nuttzz · 08-06-2006 10:19am

Dept of Transport should issue 120 p45's and outsource the whole thing, this is a disgrace that someone could be waiting 14 months for a test, paying high insurance because of it and then get told this.

civdef · 08-06-2006 10:26am

Could be a not too subtle reminder by the testers of the potential for chaos if industrial action started to take place?

jhegarty · 08-06-2006 10:31am

civdef wrote:

Could be a not too subtle reminder by the testers of the potential for chaos if industrial action started to take place?

I think the goverment would just outsource the whole thing if that happened for any length of time...

Nuttzz · 08-06-2006 10:32am

If I had to sit a test, i'd happily break their picket line...preferably at 50km/h!

road_high · 08-06-2006 10:41am

So sick of these lazy civil servants holding the country to ransom..If its not these testers it's the train drivers next week.
If these shower were in a private company they'd have got the sack long ago.
They just want to protect their cushy jobs and overtime

Cullen sort these bloodsuckers out!!

Heinrich · 08-06-2006 10:51am

mfitzy wrote:

So sick of these lazy civil servants holding the country to ransom..If its not these testers it's the train drivers next week.
If these shower were in a private company they'd have got the sack long ago.
They just want to protect their cushy jobs and overtime

Cullen sort these bloodsuckers out!!

If "these shower" were in a private company they would have a management. It seems that they do not have a management. This also applies to the medical, legal, educational issues.

The fact that Mr Ahern's makeup bill comes to nearly €500 weekly carries as much interest as the recent Mr. A. debacle or the sit-in in St Pat's speaks for itself.

Apologies for the political slant on this but it should be the politicians whom we elect who should be dealing with these issues. They should be coming up with solutions and not simply bemoaning the problems!

road_high · 08-06-2006 11:03am

Heinrich wrote:

If "these shower" were in a private company they would have a management. It seems that they do not have a management. This also applies to the medical, legal, educational issues.

The fact that Mr Ahern's makeup bill comes to nearly €500 weekly carries as much interest as the recent Mr. A. debacle or the sit-in in St Pat's speaks for itself.

Apologies for the political slant on this but it should be the politicians whom we elect who should be dealing with these issues. They should be coming up with solutions and not simply bemoaning the problems!

The last thing they want is to be managed- they want to do as they please and constantly be protected by unions.
Of course the politicians should be sorting this, but any time they do the unions block it-fact.

Heinrich · 08-06-2006 11:08am

mfitzy wrote:

The last thing they want is to be managed- they want to do as they please and constantly be protected by unions.
Of course the politicians should be sorting this, but any time they do the unions block it-fact.

If that is the case why do we have politicians in the first place. The present ones are overpaid and inept as can be seen from the current messes they are responsible for.

They should employ as many testers as is necessary to clear this backlog and MAINTAIN A PROPER WAITING LIST in the future.

r3nu4l · 08-06-2006 11:44am

http://www.rte.ie/news/2006/0608/drivingtests.html

Isn't it a bit unfair to only give a few days notice? The Union says it would not be possible for testers to meet outside a normal working day.

When will those people affected have their tests? Does this mean everyone else gets bumped back even further?

Madness! Hopefully they will be able to sort out something that brings this farce to an end. May the meeting be worth it!

I'm grateful I got my license years ago

Stark · 08-06-2006 11:49am

What is the exact story with regard to the tester shortage? Is it that they're unable to find additional testers to fill positions or are they unwilling to create permanent positions?

egan007 · 08-06-2006 11:51am

HA HA Cullen ...what a joke

He really thinks that all he has to do is say something and it will happen.

lostexpectation · 08-06-2006 1:10pm

Stark wrote:

What is the exact story with regard to the tester shortage? Is it that they're unable to find additional testers to fill positions or are they unwilling to create permanent positions?

this is the real point, I think its because theres a stoppage on employing more civil servants of any kind, althougth if there were need to employ any group driving testers must be high on the list, even when this one off private testing period ends, there seems they were still be back to the same problem of not enough testers, and neither the government or the driving instructors seem to want to change that??

Jeanious · 08-06-2006 1:44pm

The 120 testers are holding a meeting in Athlone to decide if they should allow a private company to carry out up to 45,000 tests.

What, there's some debate about this? Revoke all their licences and let them apply again and we'll see how quickly they decide that they should "allow" (yeah, "allow"!) the private company in.
I cant believe this shoite sometimes, and as someone in the other thread said, 120 P45s would do the trick.

r3nu4l wrote:

I'm grateful I got my license years ago

ditto, and i dont envy L-drivers in the least.

Vegeta · 08-06-2006 1:49pm

tell me about it, god only knows how long of a waiting list I am going to be facing

there is always the old debate of learner drivers on the road with no full license drivers. If they did bring the waiting list down to 6 weeks, i would not drive on the road without a fully licensed driver but the waiting list is over a year long here in Limerick

Capt'n Midnight · 08-06-2006 1:49pm

Navan Junction wrote:

Minister for Transport Martin Cullen repeated his intention to eliminate the backlog of driving tests by the middle of next year.

"That means having a waiting list of no more than 50,000 that can be reduced in a 10- or 12-week period," he said.

400,000 on provisionals means 120 weeks. - When is the next election - if it's after the middle of next year this can be viewed as nothing more than a election promise.

Navan Junction wrote:

A bonus scheme for driver-testers had been operating since February, with the testers having the potential to deliver up to 40,000 tests over the course of the year, said Mr Cullen.

CBA looking for one of my previous posts which showed that the last time they were on a bonus scheme the average tester was only able to do 2/3rd's of the target. Also numbers of tests per tester have consistently dropped over recent years. Be interesting to see how the new target matches up with previous ones, it's not as if the test is appreciably longer than it used to be.

Róisín Shortall ... "There is an underlying demand for approximately 177,000 tests per year without taking account of the backlog. By my reckoning, by the end of 2007, the waiting time for the driving test will be only reduced to 26 to 28 weeks," she said.

optimistic IMHO

Mr Cullen said the system was out of date and incapable of handling the demands of modern living as much as the modern requirements for good testing.

"Many tests are lost each year due to people not turning up."

Until Mr Cullen gives a number for this I'll treat it as blaming the public rather than taking ownership of the problem, apart from 18 months these guys have been in government continuously since before many of the provisional holders were born.

murphaph · 08-06-2006 1:56pm

I am no fan of public service unions etc. but surely this problem has arisen at a much higher level. For starters, there should obviously be many more testers employed full-time. The entire system needs an overhaul and this should be the first step. Blaiming the testers is a little too easy this time. What more can they do? They are working OT etc. already. The backlog will only come back if they just outsource x tests for x months. This gaovernment is particularly responsible for this ongoing debacle. It has gotten steadily worse under their tenure and they've had plenty of time to welll, erm, govern.

Nuttzz · 08-06-2006 2:03pm

murphaph wrote:

. Blaiming the testers is a little too easy this time. What more can they do? They are working OT etc. already.

Boo hoo they arent doing the over time for nothing.... what they can do is let the back log be cleared and then keep on top of the list, no person should have to wait more than 8 weeks for a test

Heinrich · 08-06-2006 2:04pm

There is an important point which is being missed here! Of the huge number waiting to be tested there will be a certain percentage who will fail and have to be re-tested. This will prolong the list even more.

If there are not enough testers then the department should employ what is needed. Mr Cullen, along with his ministerial colleagues is shirking his responsibilities. All we get is excuses and blame shifting.

Who is actually in charge? Will the culprit stand up please?

Chris_533976 · 08-06-2006 2:40pm

OVERHAUL THE SYSTEM

Capt'n Midnight · 09-06-2006 5:52pm

Heinrich wrote:

There is an important point which is being missed here! Of the huge number waiting to be tested there will be a certain percentage who will fail and have to be re-tested. This will prolong the list even more.

it's not a certain percentage - the pass rate is just 53.6%
and if they use a straight average on http://www.drivingtest.ie it's even worse since the Dublin centres are worse and would have more tests than most others.

At a 50% pass rate it would take twice as long since ~ half will fail thier retests too.

Victor · 09-06-2006 6:36pm

Threads merged.

Stark · 09-06-2006 9:39pm

They got the go-ahead for a once-off outsourcing of up to 40,000 tests starting in July. Sounds like just a band-aid for the problem though.

Capt'n Midnight · 09-06-2006 10:44pm

http://www.audgen.gov.ie/viewdoc.asp?DocID=493&&CatID=5&StartDate=1+January+2006

The 1999 performance target was for 95% of all candidates to have their test within 15 weeks of the date of application.
...
Between 1995 and 1998, the Department had set a target productivity level of 1,716 standard tests per tester per year which is 83% of the theoretical maximum. This target was not met. A productivity deal under the Programme for Competitiveness and Work increased the productivity target to 1,847 standard tests per tester per year.

Cullen wrote:

Six further driver-testers on two-year contracts were due to commence training, with five more being trained thereafter, providing additional capacity of about 15,000 in a full year.

The target these days is 6+5=11 , 15,000/11 = 1363

Sunday, April 23, 2006
http://archives.tcm.ie/businesspost/2006/04/23/story13684.asp

Driving testers will be paid up to €20,000 a year in bonuses and overtime to do work that they are already paid to do, as part of a new plan to clear the backlog in driving tests.
...
The 120 testers employed by the state are supposed to complete between 1,750 and 1,800 tests a year. The average number completed is 1,300.

The 120 testers are doing the work that 85 testers were supposed to do under a productivity deal in 1999. :rolleyes:

oh yeah 120 testers, over 400 dying on the roads each year.
In other areas of road safety a life is valued at €1m, well that's how much you pay to save an average life thorough road improvements. Yet how much of that potential €3.33m loss to the economy is spent on driver testing / training ??

Victor · 10-06-2006 6:30pm

Capt'n Midnight wrote:

The 120 testers are doing the work that 85 testers were supposed to do under a productivity deal in 1999. :rolleyes:

It is a debacle, but the test has lengthened since then - the car maintainence questions, etc.

Stark · 10-06-2006 8:38pm

Currently 5-6 tests are being completed a day. Are they during the tester's standard 8 hour day (with more tests being done during overtime) or are they during the entire day (basic day+overtime)?

Test backlog will be zero - Cullen

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