Jolla Sailfish - New Meego-Based Device

Francie Barrett · 02-10-2012 2:31pm #1

I see that the former Nokia employees who were sacked by Nokia have decided to re-introduce the Meego platform commercially.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390444592404578032153748969228.html

STOCKHOLM—A group of ex-Nokia Corp. employees has raised €200 million ($257.8 million) from a variety of telecommunications industry players to launch a new mobile operating platform based on discarded Nokia technology, and the group will unveil a new phone next month.

Is anyone following this development? Even though it wasn't really Meego, I loved my Nokia N900 and would have probably bought the N9 if Nokia hadn't announced that it was being killed off even before it was released.

Francie Barrett · 04-10-2012 2:59pm

Device being unveiled on the 21st/22nd of November.

http://techcrunch.com/2012/10/04/jolla-confirms-it-will-unveil-sailfish-meego-based-os-next-month/

justsomebloke · 04-10-2012 4:12pm

truthfully unless a couple of major manufacturers are going to get on board I can't really see it going anywhere. Given that the Firefox OS is coming at roughly the same time it's just going to make it even harder for this to come on stream

Francie Barrett · 17-04-2013 10:43am

http://www.engadget.com/2013/04/16/jolla-first-handset-launch/

This year's Mobile World Congress was a rather meaningful one for Jolla, what with the launch of its Sailfish OS SDK. But what's an operating system without a proper fixture, right? To wit, DigiToday is reporting that the team of ex-MeeGo engineers is getting ready to debut its first hardware early next month -- a handset emblematic of a "modern Scandinavian design," according to Jolla Chairman Antti Saarnio. Further, the Finnish news site says Jolla's taking a cue from the recent crowd-funded craze: it's prepping limited edition versions of the device for early adopters. Naturally, we'll have to wait for something more concrete, but with May just around the corner, it shouldn't be too long before we can finally see what Jolla has in store for us.

Device coming in May.

Wonder will we get a true successor to the N900?

Francie Barrett · 20-05-2013 10:45am

Device unveiled today and it looks like an absolute cracker!

Apparently the back shell is user replaceable and the OS is capable of detecting the colour of the shell and updating the OS to match it. Sweet.

Some of the details.

399€ we target to ship by end of 2013 *)
Jolla original design with ample 4.5” Estrade display
Dual core and 4G**)
Keep it and share with 16GB + microSD
8MP AF camera
User-replaceable battery
The Other Half
Gesture based Sailfish OS
Android™ app compliant

Haven't been this excited about a phone since the Nokia N9! Pre-ordered mine and awaiting my €100 voucher and t-shirt :cool:

jimmynokia · 20-05-2013 7:08pm

Its a kickstarter!

Wanting a deposit now,not completed,no apps,seeking help in all directions.

While i wish them the best, announcing a phone seeking deposits 6+ months in advance which by then maybe outdated does not take my money.
And thats even of they get it out on time.

This is a niche market for the likes of meego/maemo fans who by now must be fed up waiting and will have to wait even longer,we have tizen and firefox OS coming out soon which again is more competition.
Whilst i am an avid fan of the N900/N9 this is just not going to cut it.

Francie Barrett · 20-05-2013 11:13pm

jimmynokia wrote: »

Its a kickstarter!

It has no affiliation with Kickstarter.

jimmynokia wrote: »

Wanting a deposit now,not completed,no apps,seeking help in all directions.

You don't actually need to place a deposit, you can pre-order for free. Also, not sure where you're getting the idea that there are no apps. It probably has more apps than any of the other major OS's. Not only will Sailfish have their own native apps (whether they're newly developed or developed for Symbian, Maemo or Nokia's version of Meego) - it also has access to nearly a million Android apps.

jimmynokia wrote: »

While i wish them the best, announcing a phone seeking deposits 6+ months in advance which by then maybe outdated does not take my money.
And thats even of they get it out on time.

The spec has been finalized yet.

jimmynokia wrote: »

This is a niche market for the likes of meego/maemo fans who by now must be fed up waiting and will have to wait even longer,we have tizen and firefox OS coming out soon which again is more competition.

Maemo/Meego has such a following because it's the closest thing we've ever seen to a true Linux device (it supports C/Python compilers, it has proper multi-tasking, you can run a terminal window, etc.). From what I have seen, almost no one in the Meego community has an interest in FirefoxOS (probably for the aforementioned reasons). As for Tizen, that looks interesting, but it looks even further behind Jolla.

Even with the Q4 release, Jolla still looks the closest sucessor we have to Maemo/Meego.

jimmynokia wrote: »

Whilst i am an avid fan of the N900/N9 this is just not going to cut it.

Have you disagree with you.

jimmynokia · 21-05-2013 7:31am

One thing people need to realise here there is a difference between compatible and compliance.

Dyr · 22-05-2013 2:41pm

Weren't they trying to flog this to Chinese phone companies? It will have probably have true multi tasking and true randomly bricking itself every second week as well

Francie Barrett · 22-05-2013 4:28pm

Bambi wrote: »

Weren't they trying to flog this to Chinese phone companies?

Yea, I believe that Chinese consumers prefer buying a mobile phone in physical shop, so Jolla have signed a deal to distribution deal.

Bambi wrote: »

It will have probably have true multi tasking and true randomly bricking itself every second week as well

The N900 was a disaster when it came to bricking itself because it would insist on OTA updates when you might only have had a 2G internet connection. The N9 was much better at getting updates, so you'd expect that Jolla have learned their lessons on this already.

jimmynokia · 26-05-2013 4:26am

Announcing a phone 6+ months ahead of an even estimated release date is not a lesson learned.
Lets see how things phase out on the actual release date, wish them well tbh,niche market as it is now ,will people wait ? Yes some will as i said there is a difference between comparability and compliance.I will have this device before its released to test so i will fill people in.

Francie Barrett · 26-05-2013 12:39pm

jimmynokia wrote: »

Announcing a phone 6+ months ahead of an even estimated release date is not a lesson learned.

Not really. Jolla are a pipsqueak of a company. The whole point of announcing the phone and having a pre-order is to estimate demand. They also have to show that they are serious that a phone is actually on the way. They've ticked the boxes on this. Demand appears to be even better than I anticipated and other companies, suppliers and manufacturers will be taking them even more seriously.

jimmynokia wrote: »

Lets see how things phase out on the actual release date, wish them well tbh,niche market as it is now ,will people wait ? Yes some will as i said there is a difference between comparability and compliance.I will have this device before its released to test so i will fill people in.

Meego is likely to remain in the niche because Jolla just don't have the money to make it mainstream. Having said that, all Jolla have to do is capture a tiny, tiny fraction of the market and they will be a success. Remember that when the N9 was released, it sold about 1.5 million units in a quarter. This was despite the fact that Elop publicly junked the phone on release and only gave it a very limited release. Jolla are only looking at shifting 50,000-100,000 units with their launch device. Judging by the reactions so far, they'll do that easily. At that point, I think they will be able to outsource the hardware production completely and get the likes of ZTE or LG on-board. One day, once the political impediment at Nokia is removed (Elop), we may even see Nokia make a device for Jolla.

As for waiting, people will wait because there are no alternatives to Jolla.

jimmynokia · 26-05-2013 1:57pm

Francie Barrett wrote: »

Not really. Jolla are a pipsqueak of a company. The whole point of announcing the phone and having a pre-order is to estimate demand. They also have to show that they are serious that a phone is actually on the way. They've ticked the boxes on this. Demand appears to be even better than I anticipated and other companies, suppliers and manufacturers will be taking them even more seriously.

Meego is likely to remain in the niche because Jolla just don't have the money to make it mainstream. Having said that, all Jolla have to do is capture a tiny, tiny fraction of the market and they will be a success. Remember that when the N9 was released, it sold about 1.5 million units in a quarter. This was despite the fact that Elop publicly junked the phone on release and only gave it a very limited release. Jolla are only looking at shifting 50,000-100,000 units with their launch device. Judging by the reactions so far, they'll do that easily. At that point, I think they will be able to outsource the hardware production completely and get the likes of ZTE or LG on-board. One day, once the political impediment at Nokia is removed (Elop), we may even see Nokia make a device for Jolla.

As for waiting, people will wait because there are no alternatives to Jolla.

Pipsqueak of a company you say, sounds exactly like a kickstarter, needs funds to continue, basing a company on pre meditated sale's is not how it's done.
Also here's a thought, I'm going to release a product in 2014, fancy giving me ad deposit now? I think not...

Francie Barrett · 26-05-2013 11:16pm

jimmynokia wrote: »

Pipsqueak of a company you say, sounds exactly like a kickstarter, needs funds to continue, basing a company on pre meditated sale's is not how it's done.
Also here's a thought, I'm going to release a product in 2014, fancy giving me ad deposit now? I think not...

None of that is at all true. Jolla have already offered shares and convertible bonds to outside investors. As of now, they have €11 million of cash on hand - so to say this is a kickstarter is just wrong. As for needing pre-order cash to continue? That's also untrue. Last year they made a loss of just under €1 million, so it looks they are running a tight ship and keeping costs down.

Francie Barrett · 28-05-2013 5:20pm

€40 pre-order option now sold out, Irish users can now select the €100 pre-order option.

jimmynokia · 28-05-2013 6:14pm

Francie Barrett wrote: »

None of that is at all true. Jolla have already offered shares and convertible bonds to outside investors. As of now, they have €11 million of cash on hand - so to say this is a kickstarter is just wrong. As for needing pre-order cash to continue? That's also untrue. Last year they made a loss of just under €1 million, so it looks they are running a tight ship and keeping costs down.

Lost a million last year wow thats great!
Now they have eleven million.wonder who owns that!!!!

Do you want to make a small bet on how many they will actually sell or have sold by year end?

Francie Barrett · 30-05-2013 12:48am

jimmynokia wrote: »

Lost a million last year wow thats great!

It's pretty good considering they're only starting out. Nokia have been at the mobile game for years and are losing billions, so Jolla are doing quite well in comparison

jimmynokia wrote: »

Now they have eleven million.wonder who owns that!!!!

Umm, isn't that obvious? The shareholders.

jimmynokia wrote: »

Do you want to make a small bet on how many they will actually sell or have sold by year end?

The figures for units sold at year end won't ever be available so we'll never be able to measure that bet.

jimmynokia · 30-05-2013 8:35am

Francie Barrett wrote: »

It's pretty good considering they're only starting out. Nokia have been at the mobile game for years and are losing billions, so Jolla are doing quite well in comparison

Umm, isn't that obvious? The shareholders.

The figures for units sold at year end won't ever be available so we'll never be able to measure that bet.

I asked how many pre orders do you think they will have not that hard to give a figure.

Francie Barrett · 30-05-2013 12:36pm

jimmynokia wrote: »

I asked how many pre orders do you think they will have not that hard to give a figure.

This kind of projection is just impossible to give at this stage, there are too many variables at play here.

Firstly, anyone can pre-order for free - so straight away you're going to get a few tyre-kickers who have no interest in buying at all. Secondly, only EU countries + Switzerland and Norway can actually place a paid pre-order - that means people living outside of Europe can't put money down to register a genuine interest at buying. If Jolla open paid pre-orders to countries outside of Europe, numbers will obviously go up.

Finally, I would suspect that people pre-ordering constitute a minority of those who will buy the phone. Just looking at Finland alone, we know the N9 sold very well there and that Finns will get behind the home team. Since Jolla already have a carrier who will sell their phone, if they get 5% of the market, you're looking at 100,000 devices in Finland alone for the year. That would be like hitting the proverbial home run, but I still would expecting a significant 5 figure number of sales from Finland alone.

The other big unknown is how well this phone will do in China. It's a huge market that no one really understands here in Europe. I know Jolla have gotten Steve Lau involved (he was apparently influential in building Nokia up during the 90's) and he has invested his own money into Jolla. The N9 did well in China and although I suspect the Jolla phone won't be a smash-hit, I think it will sell quite well.

In the first year after release, sales are going to be pretty low. In the first full year, Android sold a tiny number of devices (something like 500,000). I suspect Jolla will sell more than 100,000 devices, but probably less than 500,000.

jimmynokia · 02-06-2013 4:32am

The top mobile phone analysts thoughts on jolla.

SAILFISH (ie MeeGo 2.0 version A) PRETENDER

Jolla the Finnish start-up made of ex-Nokia staff from the killed MeeGo/Maemo project, is in a similar stage as Firefox, but on a very different trajectory. Jolla is stepping into the shoes vacated by Nokia in abandoning the hugely admired N9 and N950 smartphones running MeeGo. The N9 is the most heralded Nokia smartphone of all time and the only one that regularly beat the iPhone in side-by-side tests by major handset magazines and comparison websites. The N9 was headed to huge global success, until bizarrely the Nokia CEO decided it will not be sold in any major markets and will not be allowed to compete against the iPhone for example not being sold in the USA, UK, Germany etc. The N9 running MeeGo won the world's most prestigious technology design awards the D&AD Award in 2012, beating Apple's brand new iPad 2 among its rivals for the award. The German weekly newsmagazine Der Stern loved the N9 so much, it encouraged its readers to fly to other countries like Switzerland and Austria to buy an N9, it was that good in the magazine's opinion (yet Nokia refused to sell it in Germany??). And as Nokia refused to sell the sister phone, the N950 anywhere, only producing a very tiny run of the device, its second hand resale prices are above a thousand Euros. Nokia had a huge flagship hit product on its hands, when it had the N9 and N950 running MeeGo, yet Nokia abandoned this massive tech lead.

So enter Jolla. Jolla was formed with the help of Nokia's employee departure program and some seed funding, and took the insights and design ideas that the MeeGo/Maemo team had with the N9, N950 and other MeeGo devices, and builds upon that. Their new Sailfish OS is an evolution past MeeGo, still as an open source Linux based OS, and one could think of Sailfish as a kind of MeeGo 2.0 (version A). Sailfish is compatible with the (formerly Nokia owned) Qt application development tools and some gossip suggests the similarity between Sailfish and Android is so close, many Android apps can run natively on Sailfish. If so, Sailfish would almost overnight jump over that hurdle of 'how many apps do you have' and inherit a part in the biggest app environment that Android is now becoming, passing the iPhone App Store.

The point with Jolla is, that it is not attempting (at least initially) to be a mass market brand and platform, but rather a premium OS at the high end of the market, competing with the iPhone and Samsung Galaxy, perhaps even aiming into the price stratosphere where Vertu exists. Considering how strong the passions were for the N9 and N950, and as the N9 was the only smartphone by ANY BRAND that regularly beat the iPhone in side-by-side tests, this is not a hopeless fantasy. The Jolla staff of about a 100 employees are essentially the same as the heart of Nokia's MeeGo team. So what we will later this year see from Jolla's first smartphone(s) are what probably could have been the 'follow-up' to the N9. The first Jolla phone may well be the ultimate superphone of year 2013 and get massive attention because of that.

Then, its their business model. To price the Jolla high enough to be able to skim those profits and slice a piece of the high-end that Apple's iPhone and Samsung's Galaxy own. Jolla doesn't need to sell 10 million in the first year to be successful and become viable in the mid term. And if the Sailfish OS starts to win all sorts of comparisons vs the iPhone, soon there may be more makers joining the Sailfish family. So for Jolla, the definition of success is quite different from most others on this list. They are not even attempting a mass market play, they know from the start, they hold a premium platform and they intend to fight for the top end of the market, not the bottom end.

Which brings me to the handset partners. We just heard that Chinese smartphone maker Zopo has decided to launch smartphones on Sailfish to sell in India. Are there carriers? The first one is signed up, Finland's DNA is committed to launching Jolla's first smartphone(s) in Finland. Yes, Finland only has 5.3 million people and DNA is the smallest of the three carriers in Finland but still, this is a real live carrier deal already signed up. And you can bet your bottom dollar that fiercely patriotic Finns will flock to Jolla to buy their first-ever smartphone, if it is anywhere near as good a follow-up to the N9 as we might expect. Meanwhile about the distribution deals? China's D.Phone, the largest handset store/distributor has signed up a deal to sell Jolla's smartphones in China. As China Mobile was a partner with MeeGo, there must be at least implied support from the world's largest mobile operator/carrier who counts one out of every 8 existing mobile phone users as its customer in the world - the carrier which alone is bigger than Sprint, plus AT&T, plus Verizon, plus T-Mobile USA, combined - and doubled.

Jolla's road is not secure, Sailfish has a big task ahead of itself, but for its early steps, it has already one handset partner, it has already signed its first carrier deal and has its first independent distribution deal. The Sailfish OS is already set to launch in China and India, the two largest mobile handset markets in the world. Jolla doesn't need to achieve huge success on this path, to make a splash globally and get the attention they want, to survive into 2014 and beyond. Will Sailfish reach 1% this year or even next, probably not, but they don't need to. They know they are a niche player at the luxury end. If they can do a million per quarter, thats enough for now, then grow from there. And then, if we find someone at the bottom end of the Top 10, wanting to differentiate from Android, with a high quality OS, we could suddenly find that someone like ZTE or Lenovo or LG suddenly announce their premium line will be powered by Sailfish.. But that would look more into 2014 than 2013..

GreenWolfe · 02-06-2013 2:03pm

jimmynokia wrote: »

The top mobile phone analysts thoughts on jolla.

SAILFISH (ie MeeGo 2.0 version A) PRETENDER

...

It wouldn't hurt to link to your source.

http://communities-dominate.blogs.com/brands/2013/01/early-thoughts-on-new-operating-systems-ubuntu-sailfish-jollameego-tizen-samsungs-update-to-meego-fi.html

jimmynokia · 02-06-2013 3:24pm

Sorry yeah that's him tomi ahonen.

Francie Barrett · 03-06-2013 10:25am

Tomi is a certified headbanger, have you seen one of his latest posts on his James Bond fetish?

jimmynokia · 03-06-2013 11:39am

Francie Barrett wrote: »

Tomi is a certified headbanger, have you seen one of his latest posts on his James Bond fetish?

I agree tomi is a headbanger and not very liked but he is the top mobile analyst he hates nokia.Yet uses and E7 .:D

jimmynokia · 20-11-2013 9:41am

Not long now!

Francie Barrett · 25-11-2013 7:38pm

Just finished paying for my order. Looks like I won't be "The First One" - my order number is 1869. Maybe I will be the first Irish person to own a Jolla

jimmynokia · 25-11-2013 7:53pm

Francie Barrett wrote: »

Just finished paying for my order. Looks like I won't be "The First One" - my order number is 1869. Maybe I will be the first Irish person to own a Jolla

One of the first.

Kevin Moran · 27-11-2013 12:37am

Really interested to see how these babies turn out, would you mind posting a quick review when you get the chance?

coley · 27-11-2013 1:01pm

Francie Barrett wrote: »

Just finished paying for my order. Looks like I won't be "The First One" - my order number is 1869. Maybe I will be the first Irish person to own a Jolla

In line behind you 2590

-Coley.

Dyr · 29-11-2013 3:59pm

Sounds like maemo all over again tbh

http://www.theverge.com/2013/11/29/5156446/jolla-smartphone-hands-on-preview

human 19 · 20-12-2013 1:47am

was trying to order one tonight. The paytrail site only gave me a country option of Finland so I had to cancel the order.
Any of you get that?
Then I fired up Chromium without any blockers and tried again. Same result.
How do I get past this? never mind..sorted via paypal

Jolla Sailfish - New Meego-Based Device

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