Surely Don Givens has to go now?

CantGetNoSleep · 26-03-2008 10:29am #1

After last night's 1-1 draw with the mighty Montenegro in Galway, Ireland under-21s are now 15 points behind England in their qualifying group.

The manager has to take the blame for this. I accept that Ireland's squad is a long way from that of England but none the less it is what I would have called a decent group of players, I don't think any of them will ever be world class but a large proportion of them will have successful professional careers in England.

Who is Don Givens answerable to? The FAI? Trapattoni? How long is his contract? Is El Trap going to keep him on?

He should adapt the words of his former partner in the crime of destroying Irish football
"The buck stops with me"

_blank_ · 26-03-2008 10:34am

The U21 is primarily about developing players, NOT winning tournaments.

You have to understand that there are players promoted from the U21 for Ireland as a matter of necessity.

We cannot afford to have our best U21s in the U21 squad, because they need to be in the senior squad.

This isn't Given's fault.

Total tabloid-esque thread tbh.

LuckyLloyd · 26-03-2008 10:56am

DesF wrote: »

The U21 is primarily about developing players, NOT winning tournaments.

You have to understand that there are players promoted from the U21 for Ireland as a matter of necessity.

We cannot afford to have our best U21s in the U21 squad, because they need to be in the senior squad.

This isn't Given's fault.

Total tabloid-esque thread tbh.

Des, I 100% agree with you. Givens has his hands tied around his back most of the time.

Furthermore, Montenegro's world ranking is out of sync with the actual footballing talent of the nation. A lot of their players would have been on the Serbian U21 team and expected to progress through to international level there before the political split. They aren't minnows, and while there is an element of stereotyping with the following - the fact remains that you will expect a balkan / eastern european outfit to be streets ahead of an Irish / English underage team in terms of technical development.

The reason why the U21s underperform run much, much deeper than the coach. The flaws with how we bring players through from 12 to 22 are laid most dramatically bare towards the end of their developmental career. Additionally, if you get rid of Givens the question is who do you replace him with? Who wants the job? Who would do it better?

Unless there are dramatic changes to the game in this country and the UK - we'll always be underachievers at this level.

KdjaCL · 26-03-2008 11:39am

Cant believe people are defending him :eek:

Last nights team:

Rep of Ireland:
Supple, Nolan, O'Cearuill,:cool: O'Dea, Powell, Stokes, O'Toole, Gibson, Quinn, Clarke, Keogh.

Thats a decent team any international manager should be able to get a performance out of them, away to england was the best u21 performance i have seen in 10 odd years oddly givens wasnt there, we had shape, looked good going forward and played as a team. Sadly england were better than us and it showed over 90 minutes.

At no stage has Givens had a bad squad, the team lacks any cohesion when hes in charge, the guy has a losing streak Guinness book of Records be proud off and on his way to beating it again.

as you can see i dont like him much.

kdjac

Xavi6 · 26-03-2008 11:42am

I don't see anything wrong with last night's result. The senior side could probably expect the same kind of result against their counterparts. Personally I don't like Givens but as Des said, he hasn't had a full pool of players to pick from. A lot of those in last night's team are never going to be good enough for senior international football no matter who manages them.

leninbenjamin · 26-03-2008 11:49am

i really dont pay much attention to the underage stuff, so i'm not going to comment on performances and that. but from reading about Don through interviews and whatnot, i really don't think he has a personality suited for working with youngsters. he seems quite impatient and a bit irate at times.

OhNoYouDidn't · 26-03-2008 12:22pm

Sorry Des, but I'm with Kdjac on this one.

His record is not good enough. Through the 90's Kerr produced the kids who won everything up tp U-19's and suddenly at U21 they started getting hammered. Part of it was the best U21's were in the senior squad, but Givens has not produced at this level for far too long. He is failing to get anything out of these players, the style of football is dire and tactically they are a shambles and there seems to be an inordinate amount of spats with players who don't seem to have them elsewhere.

Pete Mahon is such a blindingly obvious candidate for the post its unreal.

CantGetNoSleep · 26-03-2008 1:30pm

If it is about developing players then why does he seem to constantly fall out with players? Chris McCann and Steven Ireland are two that spring to mind immediately

Why won't he bring promising players into the squad? Leon Best anyone? It seems they get a call up once the media start reporting Premier League interest

The best way for young players to develop through an under 21 squad is by playing in tournaments against the best players in their age group, i.e. world, european and olympic finals. Will we ever qualify for anything under Don Givens?

Mad_Max · 26-03-2008 3:21pm

tbh i think its ridiculous that the likes of givens, caffrey, butler have stayed in their jobs as long. Not only are they not producing results but like mentioned alienating some players.

I also have first hand experience of their unbelievable favoritism to certain players, clubs and have let down MANY MANY really decent players at underage just because of clubs they play for.

Its a massive problem in the FAI that the only level that ever gets changed is senior.

LuckyLloyd · 26-03-2008 3:47pm

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Pete Mahon is such a blindingly obvious candidate for the post its unreal.

Hands off!! :mad:

Surely Don Givens has to go now?

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