some basic information

peasant · 20-01-2007 1:46am #1

Here are some of the basic info's for those thinking about getting a motorhome/campervan:

motor tax:
The motor tax for a "motorcaravan" currently is 83 euro per annum, regardless of engine size, provided that the motorcaravan is recognized as such. (internal height 6 foot, cooker with at least two rings, sink http://acts.oireachtas.ie/zza9y1996.8.html

insurance:
The conditions change every now and then. It's usually a group scheme that can be got from one of the motorcaravan clubs or through Stuart insurances.
Mine is currently around 350 / year, fully comp, comprises several accessories and is valid for motorhomes up to 6000 cc (too lazy to look up the details). One imprtant thing is that currently you can only get motorhome insurance if you have another car insured for daily use. Driving a motorhome as your sole vehicle is currently difficult to impossible to get insurance for.
EDIT: apparently Dolmen insurance have a scheme where you can have a camper as your sole vehicle

VRT
On importing a motorhome the current rate of VRT is 13.5% of the open market selling price. As there still are few motorhomes to compare with, you are pretty much at the mercy of the VRT people when it comes to defining said OMSP.
If your motorhome has an unladen (ie. just fuel, no driver, no water , no gas, etc, on board) weight of more than 3000 kg, the VRT is only 50 Euro.
So it might be cheaper to buy bigger

VAT
If your imported motorhome is younger than 6 months and/or has less than 6000 kms on the clock, it is regarded as "new" and you will also have to pay VAT of 21%. So either buy VAT free or go for the slightly older camper

LHD/RHD
Personally I find it makes no difference. On narrow Irish roads I think LHD actually is an advantage, because it's easier to gauge how close to the edge you can go ...and let's face it, overtaking isn't really a big issue.
One thing to keep in mind is that on continental makes, even if offered in RHD, the living quarters are still the same as in LHD. So exits usually still go straight out to the middle of the road ...something to keep in mind when travelling with children.

usage in Ireland
My personal recommendation would be ...watch your size. If you intend to use your camper mainly on Irish roads, you don't want it to be too big, especially not too wide.

My camper is 6.3 meters long, 2.22 meters wide and 3 meters high. On most "scenic routes" this is right at the limit of comfortable driving. On quite a few occasions I would have found myself in trouble, had it been much wider.
(Most American motorhomes are 2.5 meters or even wider !)
This also applies to scenic, medieval Italian villages btw

buying second hand
Mechanics: the usual things to watch out for when buying any vehicle. Up to now, there is no NCT/DOE for motorhomes, so you are at the mercy of the previous owner as regards maintenance and safety ...get a mechanic to check all the oily bits
Appliances: take your time, make sure everything works as it should and also make sure that you get as much documentation about the different gizmos as possible ...at least an extensive "guided tour" of all the functions.
Structure: This is the most important bit !! Basically all the structures are just a glorified garden shed strapped onto the back of a van / small truck. Most are still built using wooden framework with aluminium cladding. Leakage is the big problem here. Any water getting into the woodwork will rot it over time and your camper will just fall apart. Make sure to check every accessible nook and cranny for water leaks and/or "soft" wood. Especially around windows, hatches and at all the edges ...also underneath. Most structures a built onto a wooden base plate. Water seeping in from underneath or running down from the sides will rot this.
Do not be fooled by clean and shiny appearance ...even brandnew campers have been known to leak. If buying from a trader ask for a moisture test to be done in your presence (an instrument is held to different places on the structure from inside, showing if he wood underneath is dry or moist) Even if no moisture shows ..press against the walls with your thumb ...if it gives, it's rotten (might be an old leakage that has been sealed and dried, but the rotten wood underneath was never replaced)

Do-more · 20-01-2007 10:14am

Great info Peasant, thanks for taking the time to share it!

peasant · 20-01-2007 2:54pm

Different types of "motorcaravans":

The van conversion

link to one particular manufacturer

fortuna.ford_s.jpg

Basically any kind of van, fitted for camping. Ranging from the homemade DIY conversion with just the basics to really swish factory fitted models (Westfalia Joker (VW), Westfalia James Cook (Mercedes)) that you can order from your main brand dealer and all sorts of professional conversions inbetween.

Advantages: nimble, small footprint, drives like a van, leakages usually not a problem, solid, safe steel body.

Disadvantages: cramped, fitting everything is a problem, compromises have to be made. Insulation not as good as on purposebuild vehicles.

The classic "alkove" type

a link to the alcove models from Hymer, as an example

A van chassis where a wood and aluminium and/or glassfibre body is mounted on. In this case the original van cab remains with the back cut off and an "alcove" built over it for sleeping in.

Advantages: The alkove gives you an extra "bedroom" without impacting on the footprint of the vehicle. So you get the maximum amount of open space for kitchen, shower, sitting etc. Ideal for families.

Disadvantages: The height can cause problems and affects driveability in high winds and fuel consumption (to a certain degree)
Climbing into the sometimes low alkove to sleep is not to everybodies liking

The "partially integrated" or "low profile" type

once again, a link to the examples from Hymer

Once again fitted on a chassis-cab, but this time no extra room above the original cab. Usually with a fixed bed in the back and swivelling front seats to make a seating area. Only a limited amount of sleeping places available.

Advantages: Low profile, looks good and saves fuel. Ideal for couples
Disadvantages Not ideal usage of space, can be cramped

The "integrated" type.

the last link to Hymer examples

Purposebuilt body on chassis only. Everything but the oily bits, the steering wheel and sometimes the dashboard is specifically made to be a camper. The whole vehicle becomes your "home" and not just the bit in the back, behind the cab. Mostly fitted with a pull-down bed over the front seats and further beds (fixed or otherwise) down the back.

Advantages Maximum use and great feeling of space. Great driving experience with the massive windscreen opening the panorama in front of you. Very good insulation all round, including cab. Low profile.

Disadvantages Expensive !
While no purposebuilt motorhome with its wooden or plastic body is particularly safe in a crash und usually pretty much disintegrates, the lack of any steel around the driver/passengers in an integrated model is a safety concern.

20-01-2007 2:58pm

Just an idea, might be good to throw up pics of the different types (even examples of each)?

peasant · 20-01-2007 3:15pm

Done !

Thanks

kadman · 21-01-2007 5:38pm

If you convert a van to a camper, dont you have to get the new camper assesed for customs and excise dues.

kadman

peasant · 21-01-2007 5:51pm

Guess so.

But it would be in your own interest to do so, after all you'd make some savings on motor tax and insurance.

I would also recommend talking to your local officer(s) before you convert, as opinons differ as to what exactly is and isn't a "motorcaravan" according to the somewhat unclear regulations. Especially "interior height" can be a problem, some people have run into brick walls trying to get pop-up roofs recognized ...others had no trouble at all.

VEGAS NIGHTS · 22-01-2007 12:54pm

Posted in new thread.

dudara · 04-02-2007 6:04pm

A point made by my dad recently ( camper van owner for over 10 years) is to ensure that you have the correct license for your camper van. Larger vans would be classed as HGV and therefore you would require a HGV license.

3ps · 04-02-2007 9:47pm

most van's are designed to be driven on a max 3.5t licence.... but you have to be careful of how much payload you actually have remaining!

John Dough · 02-05-2007 6:41pm

Nice info matey ,

I see a lot of European companies (mostly German) advertising new and used motorhomes for export at what appears to be very reasonable prices (some even pay for your flight over!!!!) would you have any info regarding the pitfalls etc. of buying these and bringing them back and getting them registered here.

I would assume that the VRT rates would be the same as indicated previously for these as well and even allowing for that they are way below the market values here for s/hands anyway.:)

P.S. ok guyz I opened my eyes and saw the sticky.

peasant · 02-05-2007 8:23pm

The main reason for German companies to advertise something "for export" is to avoid German warranty laws (which state that the goods must be free of hidden defects. If you find a hidden defect within the first six months the seller has to prove that it didn't exist at the time of sale)

So on campers advertised "for export", you can bet your bottom dollar that there is a soggy corner somewhere or that the engine is kept alive for the test run with the usual tricks and will disintegrate on your way home.

Unless it's ridiculously cheap (which it usually isn't) my advice would be to avoid, avoid, avoid

(Not that a dealer warranty will save you from buying something rotten (which I know from experience), but at least you will have some comeback ..if a lot of hassle and cost)

Ray Noble · 06-05-2007 9:04pm

I've just moved to Ireland with an old VW camper and having difficuly getting insurance. Various companies seem to have different rules. One question I have is: my wife owns the car which is registered to her and I am a named driver. Is that sufficient me to have an insured car or will I have to register it in my name?

dollydishmop · 07-05-2007 12:04pm

Ray, have you tried Dolmen yet?

When I first took out my policy with them I was a named driver on hubby's car, and they seemed happy enough with that.

Failing that, try www.type2ireland.org for more specific vw camper info

folkswagen · 07-05-2007 2:28pm

Ray Noble wrote:

I've just moved to Ireland with an old VW camper and having difficuly getting insurance. Various companies seem to have different rules. One question I have is: my wife owns the car which is registered to her and I am a named driver. Is that sufficient me to have an insured car or will I have to register it in my name?

It should be okay - just persist with it - sometimes worth ringing back and speaking to somebody else at Dolmen - they have been known to return the extra 300 they charged someone who said that their camper was going to be their main car when they learned there was a second vehicle at the household - can't say much fairer than that:)

You may like to check out www.eircooled.com home of all aircooled vehicles:)

Ray Noble · 24-05-2007 2:42pm

I applied to Dolmen Insurance Brokers 2 weeks ago and still haven't had a reply. I can't even get hold of them as they don't reply to E-mails or voice mail messages. Every time I ring them all I get is a recorded message asking me to leave a message. I sent them a cheque for €330, application form, vehicle inspection report(a good one), copies of mine and my wife's driving licences, and copy of our car insurance cert. I'm hoping I haven't lost the inspection report now as my English insurance has run out and I have no insurance on it to drive to get another. I tried ringing the camper van owners club in Dublin and was told basically to forget it. I really wish I had sold it in England now when I had a lot of takers as I did not realise the problems I would have. Looks like it will have to be parked up on our land to rust away.

here2surf · 15-06-2009 5:35pm

peasant wrote: »

Here are some of the basic info's for those thinking about getting a motorhome/campervan:

motor tax:
The motor tax for a "motorcaravan" currently is 78 euro per annum, regardless of engine size, provided that the motorcaravan is recognized as such. (internal height 6 foot, cooker with at least two rings, sink http://acts.oireachtas.ie/zza9y1996.8.html

insurance:
The conditions change every now and then. It's usually a group scheme that can be got from one of the motorcaravan clubs or through Stuart insurances.
Mine is currently around 350 / year, fully comp, comprises several accessories and is valid for motorhomes up to 6000 cc (too lazy to look up the details). One imprtant thing is that currently you can only get motorhome insurance if you have another car insured for daily use. Driving a motorhome as your sole vehicle is currently difficult to impossible to get insurance for.

VRT
On importing a motorhome the current rate of VRT is 13.5% of the open market selling price. As there still are few motorhomes to compare with, you are pretty much at the mercy of the VRT people when it comes to defining said OMSP.
If your motorhome has an unladen (ie. just fuel, no driver, no water , no gas, etc, on board) weight of more than 3000 kg, the VRT is only 50 Euro.
So it might be cheaper to buy bigger

VAT
If your imported motorhome is younger than 6 months and/or has less than 6000 kms on the clock, it is regarded as "new" and you will also have to pay VAT of 21%. So either buy VAT free or go for the slightly older camper

LHD/RHD
Personally I find it makes no difference. On narrow Irish roads I think LHD actually is an advantage, because it's easier to gauge how close to the edge you can go ...and let's face it, overtaking isn't really a big issue.
One thing to keep in mind is that on continental makes, even if offered in RHD, the living quarters are still the same as in LHD. So exits usually still go straight out to the middle of the road ...something to keep in mind when travelling with children.

usage in Ireland
My personal recommendation would be ...watch your size. If you intend to use your camper mainly on Irish roads, you don't want it to be too big, especially not too wide.

My camper is 6.3 meters long, 2.22 meters wide and 3 meters high. On most "scenic routes" this is right at the limit of comfortable driving. On quite a few occasions I would have found myself in trouble, had it been much wider.
(Most American motorhomes are 2.5 meters or even wider !)
This also applies to scenic, medieval Italian villages btw

buying second hand
Mechanics: the usual things to watch out for when buying any vehicle. Up to now, there is no NCT/DOE for motorhomes, so you are at the mercy of the previous owner as regards maintenance and safety ...get a mechanic to check all the oily bits
Appliances: take your time, make sure everything works as it should and also make sure that you get as much documentation about the different gizmos as possible ...at least an extensive "guided tour" of all the functions.
Structure: This is the most important bit !! Basically all the structures are just a glorified garden shed strapped onto the back of a van / small truck. Most are still built using wooden framework with aluminium cladding. Leakage is the big problem here. Any water getting into the woodwork will rot it over time and your camper will just fall apart. Make sure to check every accessible nook and cranny for water leaks and/or "soft" wood. Especially around windows, hatches and at all the edges ...also underneath. Most structures a built onto a wooden base plate. Water seeping in from underneath or running down from the sides will rot this.
Do not be fooled by clean and shiny appearance ...even brandnew campers have been known to leak. If buying from a trader ask for a moisture test to be done in your presence (an instrument is held to different places on the structure from inside, showing if he wood underneath is dry or moist) Even if no moisture shows ..press against the walls with your thumb ...if it gives, it's rotten (might be an old leakage that has been sealed and dried, but the rotten wood underneath was never replaced)

Peasant,

I am new to boards and new to campervans.
Can you tell me if unladen weight includes the spare wheel?And also,anybody, any idea where the weighbridge is in south Dublin?
Thanks for help

peasant · 15-06-2009 6:26pm

spare wheel should be part of the unladen weight, at least in my opinion, as it is not "load" but an essential piece of the vehicle.

As for weighbridges in south dublin ..sorry, no idea

justiceforall · 09-05-2010 10:00pm

3ps wrote: »

most van's are designed to be driven on a max 3.5t licence.... but you have to be careful of how much payload you actually have remaining!

I'm thinking of importing a motorhome from the UK. The motorhome has a GVW of 4.000kg, The owner said it has a static weight weight of 3.334kg.
As I only have a car license (B) I am told I can only drive motorhomes up
to 3.500kg GVW also stated on my license. I do need the motorhome to be over 3.000kg to be duty free, only a 50 euro reg charge.

I got in touch with the taxation dept. in dublin to find out what motorhome I can drive on a car license re. weight. I told them the motorhome is 4'000kg GVW weight and static weight of 3.334kg and asked them the position on same re.car license. The person went away for about 2 minutes to find out and returned with the answer (you should be alright
for he was told it's the empty weight that counts,and the B License would be alright. I have to find out for sure if this person is right,for my license states (B) GVW 3.500kg and this info. came frorm an officer in the license dept.
The above statment must be wrong otherwise my driving license is
wrong,or it may be the fact that it's a motorhome. Any help would be most welcome.

palaeo · 12-05-2010 9:33am

Did you manage to get this sorted. Very interested.

justiceforall wrote: »

I'm thinking of importing a motorhome from the UK. The motorhome has a GVW of 4.000kg, The owner said it has a static weight weight of 3.334kg.
As I only have a car license (B) I am told I can only drive motorhomes up
to 3.500kg GVW also stated on my license. I do need the motorhome to be over 3.000kg to be duty free, only a 50 euro reg charge.

I got in touch with the taxation dept. in dublin to find out what motorhome I can drive on a car license re. weight. I told them the motorhome is 4'000kg GVW weight and static weight of 3.334kg and asked them the position on same re.car license. The person went away for about 2 minutes to find out and returned with the answer (you should be alright
for he was told it's the empty weight that counts,and the B License would be alright. I have to find out for sure if this person is right,for my license states (B) GVW 3.500kg and this info. came frorm an officer in the license dept.
The above statment must be wrong otherwise my driving license is
wrong,or it may be the fact that it's a motorhome. Any help would be most welcome.

justiceforall · 12-05-2010 12:10pm

palaeo wrote: »

Did you manage to get this sorted. Very interested.

I am going to contact the ministers dept. regarding motorhome licence.
Will post same when I get a result. Thanks.

peasant · 12-05-2010 1:14pm

There is no such thing as a special motorhome licence.

If your licence says that you can drive vehicles up to 3.5 tonnes GVW then that's that, regardless if your vehicle is a motorhome, van or car.

One thing to keep in mind:
Say you are driving an empty small truck with a GVW of 5 tonnes but because it is empty it only weighs 2 tonnes ...you could still be done for driving without a licence.

Say you are driving a vehicle with a GVW of 3.5 tonnes but it is overloaded and weighs 4 tonnes. You'd be safe on the licence side of things but you could be fined and in extreme cases be done for dangerous driving and if you had an accident you would be in trouble with your insurance too.

justiceforall · 12-05-2010 2:20pm

peasant wrote: »

There is no such thing as a special motorhome licence.

If your licence says that you can drive vehicles up to 3.5 tonnes GVW then that's that, regardless if your vehicle is a motorhome, van or car.

One thing to keep in mind:
Say you are driving an empty small truck with a GVW of 5 tonnes but because it is empty it only weighs 2 tonnes ...you could still be done for driving without a licence.

Say you are driving a vehicle with a GVW of 3.5 tonnes but it is overloaded and weighs 4 tonnes. You'd be safe on the licence side of things but you could be fined and in extreme cases be done for dangerous driving and if you had an accident you would be in trouble with your insurance too.

Hi Peasant, I fully agree with what you say as I have a driving licence
for 40 years,and have always known a B car licence is for vehicles up to
3.500kg GVW.
The reason I rang the Dept. was to make sure before I buy this motorhome would it be duty free and be able to drive same on car licence.
They said it would be duty free,only a 50 euro charge for reg. would apply
and I would be able to drive same on car licence. I then said to the officer
it is 4.000kg GVW and 3.334kg without pay load.
He then went away for about 2 minutes, more likely to ask someone else
and returned to say it's the empty weight that counts.
I have been told by motorhome dealers in Dublin not to get to hung up
about the licence,but I want to keep within the law like most people.
I am an ex bus driver and have a D licence, soon up for renewel and am thinking a year or so ahead when I might only have a B licence.
As i was not to sure when I rang the Dept. re, the 3.334kg without payload,I now know the officers are wrong in what they said as I have made more enquiries from motorhome insurance company.
I am so glad I did not buy this motorhome for I could only drive it for as long as my D licence would last and that would be the end of my motorhome if I were reduced to a B licence.
May I say you are very experienced in motorhomes and I enjoy all your posts.

danny50 · 12-05-2010 4:04pm

Hi sorry to butt in. But your D licence does not cover you to drive camper of any weight(unless you convert a bus and not tell them). your B is covering you for now but in this fine country they are good at moving goalposts.
Has anyone ever actually done a Driving Test in a Camper?

justiceforall · 12-05-2010 4:28pm

Danny,not sure what you mean as I have a full D licence and am told I can drive anything on the road regardless of size including motorhomes.

I know there may be exceptions to this rule like driving 100ft truck if there was one. I'm sure it would be illegal or then again who knows would it be ?

Anyone know.

peasant · 12-05-2010 4:32pm

A D licence covers vehicles over 7.5 tonnes with more than 8 passengers ...so yes, it covers you for a motorhome as well

barura · 16-01-2011 8:17pm

Just wondering if there is a new link for the conditions for a van to be a motorhome? The link in the first post is dead. Thanks in advance

shoestringtom · 14-05-2014 8:14pm

Great information Peasant. Thank you for compiling it.

some basic information

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