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Vat Returns - Whats the average return from a business

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  • 05-11-2015 9:19pm
    #1
    IamCait
    Registered Users Posts: 38 ✭


    Hi All,

    Just wondering if anyone could shine some light on this for me. I recently registered for VAT and i'm wondering if anyone knows what the average is for businesses/companies on their claimed vat return? IE company A had a Vat on sales of €1000 with vat on purchases of €100 giving a return of 10%.

    I just finished my returns and it worked out at 16% so i'm just curious to see what the average is. I know some people might say every business/company is different but surely there's a average...anyway any info would be greatly appreciated, thank you!


Comments

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    #2
    La Fenetre
    Registered Users Posts: 736 ✭✭✭La Fenetre


    Naughty naughty very naughty . . . .


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    #3
    IamCait
    Registered Users Posts: 38 ✭IamCait


    La Fenetre wrote: »
    Naughty naughty very naughty . . . .

    Haha honestly no hidden agenda, just genuinely interested to hear what people have to say. I'm very strict with my income returns and now also my vat returns, last thing i want is to be smacked with a bill 5 years down the road.


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    #4
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,285 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    A milkman will have to pay VAT on many of his expenses, but will charge his customers no VAT and will reclaim it all.

    A building company will pay 23% on some materials, but bill them to the client as 13.5%.

    Google had a turnover in the billions last year and their VAT claims would also have been in that range. As their biggest expense is royalties (I'm not sure of the VAT treatment of royalties), they might be charging 23%, but claiming back very little.

    I do proofreading and have very few expenses. If I register for VAT (turnover is small, but growing), it would cost me, as my clients would be paying VAT, but as I would be paying out very little, it would be to my detriment.

    It's a BS question. Any concept of an 'average' is utterly meaningless. Revenue will have standards ranges where, if you are too far from them, you can expect 'enquiries'.


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    #5
    IamCait
    Registered Users Posts: 38 ✭IamCait


    Victor wrote: »
    A milkman will have to pay VAT on many of his expenses, but will charge his customers no VAT and will reclaim it all.

    A building company will pay 23% on some materials, but bill them to the client as 13.5%.

    Google had a turnover in the billions last year and their VAT claims would also have been in that range. As their biggest expense is royalties (I'm not sure of the VAT treatment of royalties), they might be charging 23%, but claiming back very little.

    I do proofreading and have very few expenses. If I register for VAT (turnover is small, but growing), it would cost me, as my clients would be paying VAT, but as I would be paying out very little, it would be to my detriment.

    It's a BS question. Any concept of an 'average' is utterly meaningless. Revenue will have standards ranges where, if you are too far from them, you can expect 'enquiries'.


    I had a feeling someone would comment like this that's why i wrote "I know some people might say every business/company is different". I'm completely aware that businesses/companies have different vat rates along with other factors so there's no need for the education lesson.

    There's a average out there for sure and i'm just interested to know what it is, perhaps it sounds better for you if i asked what's the average return for a business/company who charges 23% on just services!!!

    Ps. Sorry for my BS question, but thanks for your appropriate reply!!!


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    #6
    barneystinson
    Registered Users Posts: 4,683 ✭✭✭barneystinson


    IamCait wrote: »
    I had a feeling someone would comment like this that's why i wrote "I know some people might say every business/company is different". I'm completely aware that businesses/companies have different vat rates along with other factors so there's no need for the education lesson.

    There's a average out there for sure and i'm just interested to know what it is, perhaps it sounds better for you if i asked what's the average return for a business/company who charges 23% on just services!!!

    Ps. Sorry for my BS question, but thanks for your appropriate reply!!!

    It really is a BS question though. You could take the average of all businesses, but the result would be as meaningful/useful as me telling you that the average person has one testicle...


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    #7
    IamCait
    Registered Users Posts: 38 ✭IamCait


    barneystinson wrote: »
    It really is a BS question though. You could take the average of all businesses, but the result would be as meaningful/useful as me telling you that the average person has one testicle...

    Ha there's a average figure, end off! There's a average for everything and you know that so it's not a BS question, thanks though!


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    #8
    Valetta
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,611 ✭✭✭Valetta


    IamCait wrote: »
    Ha there's a average figure, end off! There's a average for everything and you know that so it's not a BS question, thanks though!

    Why do you want to know?

    If you narrowed down your question to say a specific business sector, then it may be possible to give some sort of answer.

    Otherwise, it's a BS question.


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    #9
    stedabee
    Registered Users Posts: 199 ✭✭stedabee


    I'm going to have to disagree with the two know it alls above. Personally i do think there is a average but what it is i do not know. He/she said they charge 23% vat on their services so clearly he/she is asking the average on that sector....there are only 5 vat rates, 23%, 13.5%, 9%,5.2% and 4.8%, the question clearly states what's the average return for businesses/companies who charge vat at 23%, it doesn't matter what they sell or run, the vat rate is all that matters....23%!!!


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    #10
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,285 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    The state received about €11,152,929,000 in Value Added Tax in 2014, spread across something like 500,000 companies and an unknown number of other registered parties, so let's guess €22,000. Completely meaningless number.

    You could ask Revenue how many are registered for VAT and work it out that way. Another completely meaningless number.


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    #11
    Valetta
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,611 ✭✭✭Valetta


    stedabee wrote: »
    I'm going to have to disagree with the two know it alls above. Personally i do think there is a average but what it is i do not know. He/she said they charge 23% vat on their services so clearly he/she is asking the average on that sector....there are only 5 vat rates, 23%, 13.5%, 9%,5.2% and 4.8%, the question clearly states what's the average return for businesses/companies who charge vat at 23%, it doesn't matter what they sell or run, the vat rate is all that matters....23%!!!

    Not sure why the insulting tome.

    Of course there's an average, but only revenue would know what it is, as they are the only ones with all the relevant information.

    It's still a nonsensical question without a business sector being specified..

    I also note the OP has not given a reason for his question.


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    #12
    IamCait
    Registered Users Posts: 38 ✭IamCait


    Valetta wrote: »
    Why do you want to know?

    If you narrowed down your question to say a specific business sector, then it may be possible to give some sort of answer.

    Otherwise, it's a BS question.

    Why do i want to know? Read my original post!! I'm genuinely curious as to what the average is for businesses charging 23% for their percentage on returns. I'll wait for someone else who has a more informative reply, but thanks!


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    #13
    IamCait
    Registered Users Posts: 38 ✭IamCait


    Valetta wrote: »
    Not sure why the insulting tome.

    Of course there's an average, but only revenue would know what it is, as they are the only ones with all the relevant information.

    It's still a nonsensical question without a business sector being specified..

    I also note the OP has not given a reason for his question.

    I have given a reason, simply curious, and yes their is a average and finally someone admits it, yes it might be meaningless to some people but i was just curious to find out. What one person might see as pointless another may not!

    To answer your question i'm a film maker and photographer!


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    #14
    Valetta
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,611 ✭✭✭Valetta


    IamCait wrote: »
    Why do i want to know? Read my original post!! I'm genuinely curious as to what the average is for businesses charging 23% for their percentage on returns. I'll wait for someone else who has a more informative reply, but thanks!

    As I said, revenue are the only ones with the data to give you an answer.

    I'd be fascinated to see the Rey you get from them.

    What business sector are you in?


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    #15
    stedabee
    Registered Users Posts: 199 ✭✭stedabee


    Valetta wrote: »
    Not sure why the insulting tome.

    Of course there's an average, but only revenue would know what it is, as they are the only ones with all the relevant information.

    It's still a nonsensical question without a business sector being specified..

    I also note the OP has not given a reason for his question.

    Insulting tone? That's rich coming from you when your telling people that their question is a BS question, a word you can't even spell on here as it's to inappropriate...now that's what you would call insulting!


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    #16
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,285 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    IamCait wrote: »
    What one person might see as pointless another may not!
    There is a difference between pointless and meaningless.
    To answer your question i'm a film maker and photographer!
    Company A does digital photography and sells its products online. It uses pre-existing equipment. It has few outlays. Most of the 23% VAT it charges clients goes to Revenue and stays there.

    Company B like to be old-skool and uses film. The proprietor spotted a good deal and bought the film stock of a camera shop that was closing down. It has paid out a large amount of VAT to suppliers, in particular the camera shop. However, sales have been poor and they end up with VAT being reimbursed.

    How many Revenue officials can dance on the head of a pin?
    None, angels dance on the head of a pin. Revenue officials are the deveil.


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    #17
    barneystinson
    Registered Users Posts: 4,683 ✭✭✭barneystinson


    stedabee wrote: »
    I'm going to have to disagree with the two know it alls above. Personally i do think there is a average but what it is i do not know. He/she said they charge 23% vat on their services so clearly he/she is asking the average on that sector....there are only 5 vat rates, 23%, 13.5%, 9%,5.2% and 4.8%, the question clearly states what's the average return for businesses/companies who charge vat at 23%, it doesn't matter what they sell or run, the vat rate is all that matters....23%!!!

    Businesses that charge 23% VAT is not "a sector".

    For example, my brother is a structural engineer. He charges 23% VAT on his services. He has very few inputs, apart from diesel, stationery, phone. Therefore he pays lots of VAT.

    If he took on a particular project next year where he was travelling further (more diesel), providing more equipment, and having to file more ads in newspapers re planning etc... his VAT payable could move substantially. That's within a single trade.

    Now consider the wide range of activities that charge VAT at 23% and consider the different cost base and overheads that could arise. Taking an average of all of these is utterly meaningless. Not even Revenue do that, they stratify based on a comparable sector and average something meaningful, and the outliers within that sector are the risky cases.


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    #18
    IamCait
    Registered Users Posts: 38 ✭IamCait


    Victor wrote: »
    There is a difference between pointless and meaningless.

    Very sorry about that, i'll correct myself...What one person might see as meaningless another may not!

    barneystinson wrote: »
    Businesses that charge 23% VAT is not "a sector".

    For example, my brother is a structural engineer. He charges 23% VAT on his services. He has very few inputs, apart from diesel, stationery, phone. Therefore he pays lots of VAT.

    If he took on a particular project next year where he was travelling further (more diesel), providing more equipment, and having to file more ads in newspapers re planning etc... his VAT payable could move substantially. That's within a single trade.

    Now consider the wide range of activities that charge VAT at 23% and consider the different cost base and overheads that could arise. Taking an average of all of these is utterly meaningless. Not even Revenue do that, they stratify based on a comparable sector and average something meaningful, and the outliers within that sector are the risky cases.

    That's fair enough, but if i had initially given my sector would that also mean the question is uttlery meaningless...being in the film & Photography sector?


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    #19
    Loughc
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 24,773 Mod ✭✭✭✭Loughc


    Hi OP,

    You're not going to find an answer you're looking for. There's no set average, it's an impossible task as there isn't enough knowledge to work out an answer, if you're concerned you're paying more than the "average" please consult your Accountant.


This discussion has been closed.
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