Merchant Navy - WW1

rgmmg · 23-07-2013 11:33am #1

My great grandfather worked on a merchant navy ship called Magic as a stoker during WW1. Unfortunately, there was an explosion in the boiler room and he was killed, at least that's the suspicion. Would the national archives at Kew be the best place to get the ship's log? Incidentally, Michael Collins' body was transported by the ship from Cork to Dublin. I believe HMS Magic became part of a trio of ships that ferried passengers from Belfast to Liverpool.

More details here:

http://www.simplonpc.co.uk/BSS_Magic.html

enfield · 23-07-2013 12:54pm

Always start with his name, old thing.

rgmmg · 23-07-2013 1:01pm

enfield wrote: »

Always start with his name, old thing.

Thanks. Yes, an obvious starting point :pac:

I have tried that on the national archives site but can't see anyone of that name listed who wasn't deployed on land. I guess I was really wondering where the ships log might be. I will try the Belfast Steamship Company et al.

jamesdiver · 23-07-2013 10:07pm

What year was the explosion? I can check a few things for you.

enfield · 23-07-2013 11:19pm

There are forum members who have access to archives that are not available to the public that just might be in a position to help. If you are not interested in posting a name, then you are not interested. No harm done.

FRANKLIN R, K/20479 10/04/1918

rgmmg · 24-07-2013 9:58am

enfield wrote: »

There are forum members who have access to archives that are not available to the public that just might be in a position to help. If you are not interested in posting a name, then you are not interested. No harm done.

FRANKLIN R, K/20479 10/04/1918

Thanks. No problem, his name was James Mc Grogan. I have asked my Dad to send death cert details on which should have a date.

rgmmg · 24-07-2013 11:29am

Further to this, I think Coast Lines took over the Belfast Steamship Company in 1919, who were subsequently taken over by P&O in 1971. Apparently, P&O have forwarded all archives relating to the ships (of which Magic was one) to the Ulster Folk & Transport Museum. I have asked UFTM if they have any further details.

rgmmg · 24-07-2013 11:38am

jamesdiver wrote: »

What year was the explosion? I can check a few things for you.

1918 I think but I will check with my Dad re: death cert. Thanks.

enfield · 24-07-2013 11:13pm

Where was he born?

rgmmg · 25-07-2013 8:50am

Death Certificate is dated April 2nd, 1916, usual Residence HMS Magic 2 in the Royal Infirmary, Edinburgh. So I can only presume whatever happened him had happened on board HMS Magic 2 within the week before. Born in Belfast.

bigmomma · 18-08-2013 10:39pm

Hi.... My Dad is 80 this year, he has been looking up his dads service in the merchant navy in ww1 and cant seem to get any information on the ships his dad served on.... they were the bohemian, the alsatian and the hms eaglet to name a few between oct 1914 to aug 1920 to and from liverpool he was a fireman and a stoker...if any one can throw a bit of light on these ships or maybe have pictures if would be lovely to give to my dad....an other ship includes hms duke of clarence and s/s eden...hope some one can help me please...:)

enfield · 19-08-2013 7:33am

HMS Eglet is/was not a ship. but a Naval training centre. Its is still in use and a quick of the Interwebthingy will give you pictures. You can even email them .
RGMMG
I asked a buddy who runs the Bekfast Evening Newsletter who has catalogued all the photographs and mentions of WW1 military and Naval personnel listed in their ww1 papers. He said there is no photograph or mention of your man, sorry. He asked did I need information on the explosion but I said you probably already had that.

Tom.

bigmomma · 25-08-2013 10:24am

tanks tom.. i don't know about the explosion...what can you tell me...my grandfather received 3 medals during the war which my father has replicas...what about the other ships i mentioned.. would any of your buddies have any information on them? where is the best place to get any information about the merchant navy..my dad has my grandfathers discharge book with the voyages he took during the war...that's where i got the information about the names of the ships... the HMS eglat was for training,, did that mean my grandfather trained there? thanks for replying...:)

jamesdiver · 25-08-2013 1:31pm

rgmmg wrote: »

Thanks. No problem, his name was James Mc Grogan. I have asked my Dad to send death cert details on which should have a date.

Was his name McGrogan or Franklin? If its McGrogan, then where did Enfield come up with Franklin? I only ask, cause a quick google search for 'HMS Magic Explosion 1916' brings up a similar question on another forum, with some good leads for you to follow. (although the year was 1918).

Can you double check the date please? if it is April 1916, then disregard the below info, it must be a different ship.

http://www.naval-history.net/xDKCas1918-04Apr.htm

Magic, destroyer, mined and damaged 1.5 miles ENE of Fanad Head, mines laid by UC.31 (probably serving with Grand Fleet)
ANDREWS, Albert F, Wireman 2c, M 17894 (Po)
BENNETT, William H, Stoker 1c, 305297 (Dev)
BOUGHTON, Allesley E, Able Seaman, J 32000 (Dev)
CAIN, Ernest, Able Seaman, 157122 (Dev)
CHADD, Charles, Ordinary Seaman, J 59242 (Dev)
CHESSMAN, Robert B, Able Seaman, J 8752 (Dev)
CLARE, George, Stoker 1c, K 25747 (Dev)
COAKLEY, Stephen, Able Seaman, 197703 (Dev)
CROUCH, Frank, Able Seaman, J 34541 (Dev)
DOUGLAS, Samuel, Able Seaman, 226243 (Dev)
FANNING, Herbert G, Able Seaman, RNVR, Bristol Z 1656
FRANKLIN, Robert, Stoker 1c, K 20479 (Dev)
HULSE, James F, Stoker 1c, 235792 (Dev)
JACKSON, Frederick T, Able Seaman, J 26695 (Dev)
JARVIS, Richard A, Leading Stoker, K 9506 (Dev)
JONES, Charles E, Able Seaman, J 28071 (Dev)
LEWIS, William, Able Seaman, J 42916 (Dev)
LUPTON, Percy, Ordinary Seaman, J 66647 (Dev)
LUSCOMBE, Frederick S, Able Seaman, 194474 (Dev)
MULLEY, Thomas J, Able Seaman, SS 6452 (Po)
PUGH, William, Stoker 2c, K 37627 (Dev)
TUNSTALL, Harold, Able Seaman, J 4375 (Dev)
WALSH, Thomas, Ordinary Signalman, J 30975 (Dev)
WEBBER, Percival E, Leading Seaman, 235671 (Dev)
MASON, George, Stoker 1c, SS 115307 (Po), DOW

If we do have the same HMS Magic, then the evidence is more than likely pointing towards mining, as there is an entry on UBoat.net for it being damaged on 10 Apr 1918. Seems to have been the last damage UC31 carried out in the war.

Here is the entry, in the format of:
date/uboat/commander/casualty name/d=damaged/tonnage/nationality

10 Apr 1918 UC 31 Kurt Siewert
Magic (d.)1,025

br

enfield · 25-08-2013 1:33pm

Sorry Bigmomma I mixed up your post with rgmmg. The explosion was regarding his family not yours.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Eaglet_(shore_establishment)

Pop H.M.S Eglet off an email and ask them have they any info on your grandfather. Look up the internet and you will find lots of information on the other ships. If you have his name that will also help you.
Cheers.
Tom.

jamesdiver · 25-08-2013 1:35pm

apologies, I see in the first link you posted, that there is some confusion between HMS Magic, and the hospital ship Magic II.

bigmomma · 25-08-2013 6:25pm

tanks tom... what email address will i sent it to...i cant seem to find any of the ships that are on his discharge book...but got info from your link... tanks:)

enfield · 26-08-2013 8:23am

A quick Google gives an email address EAGLET-RECO@mod.uk
Tom.

barbosa · 20-03-2014 9:07pm

I am trying to find details of the fate of Michael Nolan, born in Dublin 1870, who was killed at sea during WW1, probably after 1914. He was a merchant seaman, believed to be a First Mate, and the family story is that his ship sank with all hands in the Irish Sea, possibly after being torpedoed. Unfortunately, nobody now knows the name of the ship he was on, and I have been unable to trace his service record (I gather this is not uncommon!), so can get no info that way. He was a merchant seaman for many years, at least from before the date of his wedding in 1895. I have trawled many websites for ships sunk in the Irish Sea 1914-18, with substantial loss of life, but have found nothing very helpful so far. I haven't been able to find him on any memorials, either.

Any ideas?

enfield · 20-03-2014 11:43pm

There were no casualties named Michael Nolan killed in the Mercantile Marine in WW1. Perhaps he joined the army? He does not have a listing either in Findmypast Merchant Navy Seamen. There are no Michael Nolans in it with a birth year anywhere near 1870. Perhaps he died in the Army? Here are the Dublin Michael Nolans;- Dublin Michael Nolan Private Royal Irish Fusiliers 1st Battalion. 11169 18/10/1914 18 Dublin Dublin Killed in action Son of Michael and Mary Nolan, of 11, Upper Stephen Street, Dublin. B. 11. Bailleul Communal Cemetery, France.
Dublin Michael Nolan Private Royal Army Medical Corps 17th Casualty Clearing Station 66432 01/04/1917 Luton Town (Lucan?), Dublin Southampton Died IV. B. 46 Longuenesse (St Omer) Souvenir Cemetery in France.
Dublin Michael Nolan Private Royal Irish Fusiliers 1st Battalion 18696 19/10/1918 Dublin Dublin Kingstown, County Dublin Died 58 Erquelinnes Communal Cemetery, France.
Dublin Michael Nolan Sergeant Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers "A" Company. 1st Battalion. 9374 01/07/1916 27 Rathgar, Dublin Dublin Killed in action Son of Mrs. Annie Nolan, of 19, Richmond Place, South Richmond Street, Portobello, Dublin. Pier and Face 4 D and 5 B. Thiepval Memorial in France.

enfield · 20-03-2014 11:46pm

There was a M Nolan in the Mercantile Marile Reserve though;-
NOLAN, M

Rank:
Able Seaman
Service No:
771751
Date of Death:
12/05/1916
Regiment/Service:
Mercantile Marine Reserve

H.M.S. "River Fisher."
Grave Reference
C. 5.
Cemetery
ALEXANDRIA (HADRA) WAR MEMORIAL CEMETERY
Additional Information:
There were one in the Royal Navy;-
NOLAN, MICHAEL

Rank:
Stoker 1st Class
Service No:
SS/115511
Date of Death:
15/07/1917
Age:
21
Regiment/Service:
Royal Navy

H.M.S. "Redbreast"
Panel Reference
26.
Memorial
PORTSMOUTH NAVAL MEMORIAL
Additional Information:
Son of Mary Nolan, of 3, Railway Cottages, Tramore, Co. Waterford, and the late Martin Nolan
And one in the Royal Naval Reserve;-
NOLAN, MICHAEL JAMES

Rank:
Stoker
Service No:
2875S
Date of Death:
01/06/1916
Age:
24
Regiment/Service:
Royal Naval Reserve

H.M.S. "Tiger."
Panel Reference
19.
Memorial
PLYMOUTH NAVAL MEMORIAL
Additional Information:
Son of James and Catherine Nolan, of Liverpool; husband of Catherine Nolan, of 6, Fletcher St., Liverpool.

barbosa · 20-03-2014 11:56pm

Thanks for your reply. The first Michael Nolan you mention is the son of the Michael Nolan whose fate I am interested in; I have his record from the Commonwealth Graves Commission website. Like you, I have found no record of Michael snr on that site, nor on the Find My past, Family Search or Ancestry websites. He definitely did not join the army, and the surviving family are quite clear that he died at sea, as a merchant seaman. There was a rumour that the ship he was on was carrying (secretly) munitions, and that there was something a bit hush-hush about the sinking. If that really is the case, we may never know....

Many thanks for trying, anyway; much appreciated.

barbosa · 21-03-2014 12:05am

Sorry, Enfield, sent my last post before I saw yours! The River Fisher one I knew about, too, but we are certain he was never in Alexandria; if it gave his age, I might be inclined to see it as a possibility (or not). Michael's parents were Anthony Nolan and Catherine (nee MacNally), both from Dublin. I believe Catherine had been deceased for some years at the outbreak of WW1. Michael was married to Mary (nee Kearns), as per the record for his son.

I really appreciate the research you are doing- maybe between us we will find something!

enfield · 21-03-2014 8:26am

Sorry old Bean that's all I can find with the information you supply.
Cheers.
Tom.

Tabnabs · 26-03-2014 10:58am

Even if it was hushed up, the wreck would still be there. Have you considered going at it from that angle? http://www.irishshipwrecks.com/

rgmmg · 02-05-2014 4:03pm

enfield wrote: »

HMS Eglet is/was not a ship. but a Naval training centre. Its is still in use and a quick of the Interwebthingy will give you pictures. You can even email them .
RGMMG
I asked a buddy who runs the Bekfast Evening Newsletter who has catalogued all the photographs and mentions of WW1 military and Naval personnel listed in their ww1 papers. He said there is no photograph or mention of your man, sorry. He asked did I need information on the explosion but I said you probably already had that.

Tom.

Hi Tom. Sorry for the delay in getting back to you and many thanks for all your efforts. You are very kind. I have contacted the National Archives to see if they can conduct a search for me. He served in the Merchant Navy on Hospital Ship named Magic, renamed Magic II for whatever reason during the war. If your friend did have any info on the explosion that would be great as outside of the above no one knows what happened. No problems if not. Will post back with an update if I get one. Thanks again - it is much appreciated.

rgmmg · 02-05-2014 4:08pm

jamesdiver wrote: »

Was his name McGrogan or Franklin? If its McGrogan, then where did Enfield come up with Franklin? I only ask, cause a quick google search for 'HMS Magic Explosion 1916' brings up a similar question on another forum, with some good leads for you to follow. (although the year was 1918).

Can you double check the date please? if it is April 1916, then disregard the below info, it must be a different ship.

http://www.naval-history.net/xDKCas1918-04Apr.htm

If we do have the same HMS Magic, then the evidence is more than likely pointing towards mining, as there is an entry on UBoat.net for it being damaged on 10 Apr 1918. Seems to have been the last damage UC31 carried out in the war.

Here is the entry, in the format of:
date/uboat/commander/casualty name/d=damaged/tonnage/nationality

10 Apr 1918 UC 31 Kurt Siewert
Magic (d.)1,025br

Belated thanks JamesDiver. It is very confusing but HMS Magic was not the name of the ship as per my original post (will change now) - the ship was called Hospital Ship Magic II.

dunbharra · 05-02-2015 2:53pm

bigmomma wrote: »

Hi.... My Dad is 80 this year, he has been looking up his dads service in the merchant navy in ww1 and cant seem to get any information on the ships his dad served on.... they were the bohemian, the alsatian and the hms eaglet to name a few between oct 1914 to aug 1920 to and from liverpool he was a fireman and a stoker...if any one can throw a bit of light on these ships or maybe have pictures if would be lovely to give to my dad....an other ship includes hms duke of clarence and s/s eden...hope some one can help me please...:)

These are the same ships my Grand dad served on in WW1

The Alsation was an Armed Merchant Crusier built in 1913 and sometimes served as the flag ship of the 10th Crusier Squadron protecting the North Atlantic Convoys (flying the flag of the famous Admiral Sir Dudley de Chair), patrolling area between Faeroe Islands and Iceland. She became the first Navy ship to be painted with a dazzle pattern in August 1917. After the squadron was retired in 1917, she returned to Canadian Pacific Ocean Services. On 28/9/1918 she commenced her first voyage from Liverpool to Canada and after a second voyage on this service, was refitted at Glasgow.

she was Renamed EMPRESS OF FRANCE 4/4/1919

Merchant Navy - WW1

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